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August 21, 2016 at 11:05 am in reply to: This is the stuff of nightmares until you realize what it is #51311Billy_TParticipant
Sorry for the terrible formatting above. The poem is much better read on the site linked to.
Nittany,
Was that caption yours? Again, pretty cool language.
No, the caption was attached to the photo. I didn’t care for it myself because the “when young” part is redundant since the caption already mentioned nit’s a chick. I do like the poem though.
I also like the name of the bird. Ceroneous mourner. I like melodic names. My all-time favorite is Serratia marcesens.
Lovely, right?
It’s a bacterium found in your GI tract that we’ll sometimes isolate from urine specimens when the patient has a UTI.
A great deal of the best English-language poetry from the 17th through the 19th century was filled with apparent knowledge of birds, botany and biology. And alliteration, too.
Not sure how much came from the GI tract, though. James Joyce in the 20th century, however, utilized GI in his great novel, Ulysses. He had a lot of guts.
;>)
August 21, 2016 at 10:35 am in reply to: This is the stuff of nightmares until you realize what it is #51305Billy_TParticipantSorry for the terrible formatting above. The poem is much better read on the site linked to.
Nittany,
Was that caption yours? Again, pretty cool language.
Billy_TParticipantBecause I see that that way, I do not separate any of the “issues.” They are all tied together, they are all mutually connected, it;s a web….you can’t touch one thing without touching the others.
————–
Do you agree or disagree that in the ‘cluster’ of ‘issues of domination’, in the mainstream-media,
CLASS is the one that gets minimized, marginalized, ignored, more than, say,
race, sex, gender…?I rant about class, in part because i think its at the top of the hierarchy, and in part because it gets IGNORED. The other ‘inseparable issues’ do not get ignored. (though, they often get distorted)
…I’m actually quite glad there are people out there saying issues-of-domination-and-oppression are “inseparable.” I think its good to have those voices. In a way they ‘are’ inseparable — but the mass-media HAS separated them. They’ve ignored the biggest one. So, I rant about the biggest one. (i know you think they are all equally big, inseparable, etc)
I dont really care about the ‘inseparable’ issue, what i care about is that Class/Corporate-Capitalism is ignored by the corporate-capitalist press.
w
vWe agree. Much of America has always had a problem even admitting we have classes here. It goes against our sense of pride in our difference from Europe. We didn’t start out with an official, heritable “aristocracy,” though we grew one. So I think nations that actually fought to bring down their own actually have a clearer sense of what “class” is, does and means. We don’t really know what “class” is because we never had to take down perhaps the most obvious example.
That and the fact that we took over from England as the main cheerleader/exporter for capitalism, which means we have to basically deny the existence of class, too, or it doesn’t really work. The delusion and illusion is that anyone can rise to the top of the heap, and if anyone can do that, then “classes” don’t really exist. At least not more than temporary speed bumps along the way to living like pashas.
As already mentioned, I’m against the hierarchies we supposedly can easily climb in the first place. But that’s another story.
August 21, 2016 at 9:22 am in reply to: This is the stuff of nightmares until you realize what it is #51288Billy_TParticipantCinereous mourner chicks mimic poisonous caterpillars to avoid predation when young.
I really like that sentence. For some strange reason, it makes me think of Gerald Manley Hopkins:
The Windhover
By Gerard Manley Hopkins
The Poetry Foundation: The WindhoverTo Christ our LordTo Christ our Lord This epigraph dedicated the poem to Jesus while echoing the Latin phrase, Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam, the Jesuit motto meaning “To the Greater Glory of God.”
I caught this morning morning’s minion, king-
dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
Stirred for a bird, – the achieve of, the mastery of the thing!Brute beauty and valour and act, oh, air, pride, plume, here
Buckle! AND the fire that breaks from thee then, a billion
Times told lovelier, more dangerous, O my chevalier!No wonder of it: shéer plód makes plough down sillion
Shine, and blue-bleak embers, ah my dear,
Fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermilion.Billy_TParticipantbnw,
Please don’t click “quote” if you’re not going to quote someone.
Beyond that, Heston shows the complete and utter idiocy of anyone who would prefer death to a slight reduction in consumer choice, or a slight increase in paper work.
Death: “I choose death rather than giving up my access to guns that weren’t even legal twenty years ago!!!! Arrrrrrrgggggghhhhh! Frotttthhh, blagggghhhh!!!”
“I choose death rather than going back to the way things were in pretty much every state in the US until roughly twenty years ago, when conceal carry laws were virtually non-existent!!! Arrrrrrggghhhhh!!!!! Grrrrrrhhh, barrgggle gurrrrgggle!!!”
Since the amendment was written — and isn’t “original intent” a big deal for gun nuts? — since it was written, consumer choice for weaponry has accelerated astronomically, beyond the wildest dreams of anyone in the late 18th century. So people in 2016 now have options for weapons that did not exist one, five, ten, twenty, thirty years ago. If you couldn’t own an AR-15, for example, but you could still buy shotguns and .357 magnums and a host of other kinds of guns . . . . you’d rather die than lose the massive increase in consumer choice that wasn’t even there in the past? You’d rather die than lose something that was never, ever your “right” in the first place?”
Oh, well. If you’re intent on committing suicide . . .
I did quote you. That is why your name is there. I quoted your post about boats. Why your post didn’t show up I do not know.
As for “legal” guns I’ve already told you that the AR-15 (the latest bugaboo du jour) has been legal and offered to the public for over 50 years.
As for Heston he merely stated that he would fight to his death for his 2nd Amendment right. Sad that you would support the government murdering someone over it. Chew on that.
Um, bnw, I don’t support the government murdering anyone. Never have. Never will. It would actually be the Hestons of this world who attempted murder, not the government. It would be the folks who think the government is being “tyrannical” by simply limiting consumer choice, or placing a few commonsense restrictions on weaponry, who would be doing the murdering. It would be the gun nuts who shoot government officials for simply implementing the law doing the murdering. Not the government.
If someone is willing to fight to the death over their guns, that’s just flat out insane, and it means they don’t have the mental capacity necessary to handle them in the first place.
Billy_TParticipantI disagree, however, with the perspective and the truth-claim that says using “identity politics” is necessarily a rejection of . . . . something. Who makes that call? Who decides? What, exactly, is being rejected?
It just is. That’s its usage. No one says they do identity politics; rather, the term is then used to portray someone else as focusing narrowly on identity issues. It actually comes from an earlier stage of minority rights movements when activists said “is it enough to ask what it means to be black/gay/a woman?” So “identity politics” is always meant as something someone ELSE does that is by definition too narrowly focused. Or the added thing is, it’s presumably “trivial” in comparison to something which is then represented as being comparatively more significant.
When the term is broadened to encompass anyone who is concerned with issues of race, or gender, or sexuality it then is basically rejecting all concerns with race, gender, or sexuality as being insufficiently universal and blind to bigger issues. Basically to me that’s not that different from shouting “all lives matter” back at the “black lives matter” movement. I see saying that not as MORE progressive or aware in some way, I see it as regressive and insensitive and UNaware in a lot of ways.
Because I see that that way, I do not separate any of the “issues.” They are all tied together, they are all mutually connected, it;s a web….you can’t touch one thing without touching the others.
Again, that’s your perspective, and you’re making a truth claim. I don’t agree with it. I don’t agree that everyone who uses the term uses it the way you think they do.
I do, however, get pissed off at the “all lives matter” rejoinder, just as you do. “Black lives matter” has always implied the “too.” They matter too. It’s always been about the fact that black lives have never been valued as much as white lives in America, and we’re still at the place in time when too many people with the power of life and death see them this way, consciously or subconsciously. So, the rejoinder, IMO, is really asinine and ignorant.
As in, for me, I see that AND I think using “identity politics” is just fine, and I don’t reject concerns about race, gender, sexuality, etc. etc. etc. Never have. Never will. The problem you’re setting up is that you’ve made a sweeping truth claim, and you haven’t allowed for any diversity of usage or viewpoint — or context. Different people, in different situations, using terms in different ways, to different effect, for different reasons.
That happens. It’s my perspective and my truth claim that this is what happens. You disagree. That’s your perspective and you’ve made your own truth claims.
Life goes on.
August 20, 2016 at 6:12 pm in reply to: youtube party…post a song you like which you think is not that widely known #51240Billy_TParticipantLots of great choices above.
Thanks, everyone.
WV, your last choice made me think of the Dropkick Murphys, for some reason. After listening to Milla Jovovich, with its fey, haunting, so sweet vibe, it’s time to shift gears, grab a Guinness and rock out.
Enjoy your weekend, everyone!
Billy_TParticipantI agree with WV that the planet and its atmosphere are the top of the heap of issues, and epitomize the whole Nero plays the fiddle while Rome burns thing.
As we’ve discussed before, I also agree that it’s a huge problem that the media and our politicians and our schools won’t talk about the obvious connection with corporate capitalism — though I’d just leave out the “corporate” qualifier and say capitalism all by itself, in any form. IMO, it’s a mistake to think a different kind of capitalism would work, or that the corporate part isn’t already baked in or inevitable.
But, yeah, I’d say that all tops the list.
. . . .
I disagree, however, with the perspective and the truth-claim that says using “identity politics” is necessarily a rejection of . . . . something. Who makes that call? Who decides? What, exactly, is being rejected? There are obviously different ways of using the term, and people coming from vastly different points of view — left, right and center, etc. etc. So does it make any sense to claim that anyone and everyone who uses the term is automatically rejecting — whatever it is we’re supposed to be rejecting? I don’t think so.
My own occasional use of the term stems from the lack of alternatives. If there are better ways to shorten the field from “issues of race, gender, sexuality . . . .” then I’m all ears. To me, it’s clumsy and takes up too much space to repeat that list, which can still offend people for not being inclusive enough. Saying “identity politics” is pretty neutral, IMO, and I’ve seen it used “positively” by feminists, black activists and so on, so I just don’t see it as necessarily being a rejection, or dismissive, or . . . what have you. And, again, of what? It’s yet another form of “prejudice” to make the truth claim that it is necessarily a rejection, etc. etc.
Anyway . . . I need to practice what I preached above, so fuck all of this. I saw a mermaid riding on the back of a dinosaur the other day, and it completely destroyed my concept of what is true and what is an illusion.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Billy_T.
Billy_TParticipantAlso, Nietzsche and the double-edged sword:
When someone says straight up, in paraphrase, alludes to or echoes, etc. etc. that There is no truth, only perspective . . . . Well, that’s a perspective too and, ironically, a truth-claim.
So you can end up with a kind of infinite regress of sorts, with all kinds of shaggy dogs chasing their tales of woe and wonder.
Billy_TParticipantNice discussion, WV and ZN, you two old knuckleheads. I think you need to spruce it all up, though. Throw in some fucks and talk of mermaids and shit and flip over a cart before a horse or two, and then HBO may want to sign ya.
:>)
Billy_TParticipantI think comparing Australia to America is enlightening. They established a ban on certain kinds of weapons, with certain kinds of capacity, but left others totally alone. This has resulted in an end to mass shootings there, and it’s immensely popular. It didn’t cause a war. It didn’t provoke Australians to shoot other Australians in order to cling to their guns to the death. They accepted its logic, the common sense of it and moved on. Again, it’s incredibly popular in Australia — that legislation.
In America, however, thanks primarily to the NRA since 1977, shilling for the gun industry, too many Americans have bought into the absurd paranoia of their screaming about slippery slopes and gun confiscation and “false flag” operations by “the state.” Too many Americans have lost their minds because of this endless pimping for the gun industry and they refuse to see reason.
Pretty much the entire world thinks we’re insane when it comes to guns. They think we’re nutz. Mostly because pretty much the entire world has sane gun laws and they work and they haven’t led to a “slippery slope” of any kind whatsoever.
Regardless, I hope someday we’ll evolve at least to the level of the Australians on this.
Billy_TParticipantbnw,
Please don’t click “quote” if you’re not going to quote someone.
Beyond that, Heston shows the complete and utter idiocy of anyone who would prefer death to a slight reduction in consumer choice, or a slight increase in paper work.
Death: “I choose death rather than giving up my access to guns that weren’t even legal twenty years ago!!!! Arrrrrrrgggggghhhhh! Frotttthhh, blagggghhhh!!!”
“I choose death rather than going back to the way things were in pretty much every state in the US until roughly twenty years ago, when conceal carry laws were virtually non-existent!!! Arrrrrrggghhhhh!!!!! Grrrrrrhhh, barrgggle gurrrrgggle!!!”
Since the amendment was written — and isn’t “original intent” a big deal for gun nuts? — since it was written, consumer choice for weaponry has accelerated astronomically, beyond the wildest dreams of anyone in the late 18th century. So people in 2016 now have options for weapons that did not exist one, five, ten, twenty, thirty years ago. If you couldn’t own an AR-15, for example, but you could still buy shotguns and .357 magnums and a host of other kinds of guns . . . . you’d rather die than lose the massive increase in consumer choice that wasn’t even there in the past? You’d rather die than lose something that was never, ever your “right” in the first place?”
Oh, well. If you’re intent on committing suicide . . .
- This reply was modified 8 years, 3 months ago by Billy_T.
August 20, 2016 at 10:22 am in reply to: youtube party…post a song you like which you think is not that widely known #51201Billy_TParticipantOn a much different note . . . . Milla Jovovich. Known mostly for her acting career, she made one really great album as a teen (just 16 when it was recorded; 18 when it came out — I think), and it really should have a much wider audience. It’s beautifully strange, with hints of Kate Bush and the Cocteau Twins, but really all her own. She wrote all the songs but one, a rendition of a Russian folk song.
You can find the entire album on youtube.
Billy_TParticipantZN,
But could you actually describe his policies? I try my best, but it’s extremely difficult, for the reasons listed. If you know them, please list them
Yes. We all can. “Policies” is a very general term. It doesn’t mean “specific plans.” If you don’t like the term “policies” say “general ideas and attitudes concerning ________ “.
And if you’re watching the game tonight join us in the chat room gawddammit.
Thanks for the invitation, ZN. Much appreciated.
I suspend my cable service (Directv, currently) every summer. Usually for two months or so. So I can’t watch the game. Am hoping when I call them in early September, I’ll get a good deal on the NFL ticket, which has been the norm for me for a long time. We’ll see.
I suppose I could go to a sports bar tonight and watch it, but, frankly, I’ve never been really big on exhibition games. In fact, I wish they’d do away with them. I really hate the idea of players getting hurt in games that don’t count. I hate them getting hurt, period, of course. But it seems especially perverse when the games are meaningless.
Billy_TParticipantIf I understand you correctly, ZN, you’re saying his “policies” are out there, and you want us to talk about them and, perhaps, three other candidates’.
My thing is a little bit different. I’ve tried to get Trump fans to tell me what they think his policies are, because he really has been so vague about them — and contradictory. So far, not a single one of them has ever been able to summarize beyond extreme generalities like “putting Americans first.”
If his own supporters, some of whom are quite rabid, can’t accurately summarize his policies, I think that tells us Trump has never provided enough details or substance for anyone to.
That’s my take on it, anyway. Again, would be interested to read yours, especially if you can do what his supporters seem unable to do.
Billy_TParticipantA huge problem when it comes to discussing policies, is that Trump is so vague about his
We know what they are.
Policies are not direct solutions or proposals. Though sometimes you do get those things.
You can tell where candidates stand on issues because they are courting constituencies.
Doesn’t mean we know their exact gameplan on this or that.
But we know generally where they stand on driving issues, and that’s what’s meant by “policies.”
ZN,
But could you actually describe his policies? I try my best, but it’s extremely difficult, for the reasons listed. If you know them, please list them.
Again, the only thing he’s really come close to providing any details about is his tax plan. Even the deregulation side of that is vague. He just tells us the lie that regulations cost Americans trillions per year, so he’ll cut them and save trillions. No specification of which regulations he’ll cut or end, etc. etc.
August 20, 2016 at 9:34 am in reply to: youtube party…post a song you like which you think is not that widely known #51189Billy_TParticipantOne of my favorite directors is Paolo Sorrentino, especially his Il Divo. This music is from another excellent film, Youth, starring Michael Kaine and Harvel Keitel, among other surprises.
This next one may be an acquired taste, but the films of Krzysztof Kieslowski, especially his Tres Colors triptych, and The Double life of Veronique, match image and music in truly brilliant, haunting ways. Zbigniew Preisner was the genius behind most of his soundtracks.
I fell in love with Juliette Binoche after seeing her in The Unbearable Lightness of Being. But watching her in Bleu just deepened that.
Billy_TParticipantA huge problem when it comes to discussing policies, is that Trump is so vague about his. This, of course, isn’t unusual for Republicans in general. The Dems tend to be wonky technocrats, while the Republicans tend to use trigger words instead of policy talk to elicit fear, paranoia and so on. Trump has taken this a step further. He does all of that and then just says, “Trust me. You’re going to have so much winning, you’ll get bored with it.” It’s as if he watched too many reality TV shows starring Charlie Sheen.
So it’s generally pretty issue to list policies from the Dems, and next to impossible to do so with the Republicans, with one exception: Taxes. They tend to actually give us the numbers for their new tax cut rates, though they never talk about the fact that a ten percent tax cut for someone making 30K is nothing compared to someone making 3 million. Or 30 million. Or 3 billion, etc. And when they talk about getting rid of “the death tax,” they tend to make it sound like every estate pays it, even though less than 0.2% of the people with estates do. Right now, no couple with less than 10.6 million does.
Trump is also unique because the incredibly vague things he says about his policies often contradict each other. For instance, he wants this massive tax cut, including personal, corporate and estate taxes, which most economists believe would add ten trillion to the debt, but, at the same time, he calls for nearly twice the amount of infrastructure spending as HRC. It’s roughly 500 billion to 275 billion, give or take. Clinton pays for her new spending with slightly higher taxes on the rich — last time I heard, a new rate of 43% — while Trump slashes revenues so he has to borrow trillions for his plans. He’s also called for a massive increase in military spending, a la Reagan, along with his massive cut in revenues, so he’s likely to triple the debt just like Reagan did.
That’s just a bit of the policy differences between the two.
Billy_TParticipantThat right hasn’t been vague for 227 years. You have the right to keep and bear arms.
I know this is hopeless, but I’ll give it one last try.
Let’s say the BOR put in an amendment about boats. It said you have the right to keep and dock a boat. So, we decide to require licensing, registration and training, and limit the kinds of boats you can own and dock. Your “right” has not been infringed. Because the right to keep and dock a boat was never a right to keep and dock any boat you could ever possibly desire, like a nuclear sub, or a battleship. And your right was never written down as excluding things like licensing and registration, or any restraints, constraints or restrictions we might want to include, as long as they’re legal restraints in accord with our laws, etc.
So, when we say you can’t own and dock a Trident II SSBN, this doesn’t impact your right to keep and dock a boat. There are thousands of different boats you can keep and dock, so it doesn’t take away your rights when we agree as a people that some boats are off limits — or that we agree on background checks, licensing, registration, etc. etc.
And the above has always been the way our courts have understood the amendment, though, prior to Heller, they also said it was a collective right only, and only in connection to state-run militias. All Heller did was to radically reinterpret this to get rid of the militia part and change it from a collective to an individual right. It didn’t change the fact that we can regulate, restrict, constrain weaponry in America.
Billy_TParticipantNo sale. You’re using “Gun Safety” as a ruse to deny 2nd Amendment right. It won’t work.
No “ruse” necessary. The 2nd amendment never gave you the “right” you think it did. It’s never given you the right to unfettered, unregulated, unlimited consumer choice or firepower.
All it says is that if you’re in a state-run militia — which no longer exist — you can “keep or bear arms.”
That’s it. There is no “right” there to endless consumer choice of weaponry, free from restrictions, restraints or constraints. And we’ve always had restrictions, restraints and constraints, and the courts have always upheld them — even Heller.
No such absolute “right” has ever existed in the history of humankind. The radical right, led by the NRA, invented it out of wholecloth, and Trump is pandering to them. It sounds like you agree with their invention.
Billy_TParticipantI think you’re confusing the radical right’s absurd reinterpretation of the 2nd with its reality as an amendment. In short, they just don’t need to touch it in order to implement serious gun safety legislation. All of that would easily fit within its parameters, context and history.
As has been upheld by recent SC decisions.
..
Correct.
Scalia in Heller said the government can regulate weaponry and outlaw it on the basis of excessive firepower/capacity. It’s all a matter of where we chose as a nation to draw the line. So if we draw it before we get to an AR-15, that conforms with the SA even after Heller, which again went against two centuries of precedent. And Heller in no way says we can’t demand universal background checks, or licensing, or registration, or smart gun tech, etc. etc.
All the amendment says is that if citizens are members of state-run militias, they can “keep and bear arms.” There isn’t even anything in there about using them. Heller basically just took away the militia part and reinterpreted the amendment as an individual right, rather than a collective one. That doesn’t impact gun safety regulations as proposed by the Dems one iota. It’s never been a right to unlimited, unfettered consumer choice. So placing limits on consumer choice in no way, shape or form goes against it.
Billy_TParticipantAlso, on NAFTA, trade and Trump.
He’s been lying to his followers from the beginning about what is actually going on. Instead, he’s used jingoistic and xenophobic triggers to get them to believe these trade deals help other countries while uniquely screwing over Americans. In reality, they make things radically better for capitalists, capital and especially American capitalists and capital. But he’ll never be honest about that with you. He wants you to hate Mexicans and the Chinese and poor people around the world and to believe they’re screwing you over, when it’s actually American business owners and interests who are.
They wrote the treaties. They lobbied to get them passed. They benefit. They ship millions of jobs overseas, chasing after cheaper and cheaper labor and more and more profits. Trump does this too, to this day. So he can’t be honest about the real set up, because then you’d be angry at him and people like him, so he scapegoats impoverished Mexicans and Chinese and Malaysians instead, even though they’re getting the shaft too. Labor is getting the shaft. Capital, capitalism and global corporatism win, and that includes Trump.
He’s conning his followers. And it’s too obvious to miss.
Trump is campaigning on protecting and increasing US employment particularly in manufacturing. So capitalists can make money by not shafting the US worker. No doubt domestic and foreign labor are getting the shaft in those trade deals but Trump will be working for the US worker which is as it should be.
We’ve talked about this before. Trump has never, ever, not once, talked about how he would increase US employment or help American workers. He has no plan, other than slashing taxes for the rich and deregulating business further. Deregulation means fewer protections for workers and the environment, not more. Deregulation means Capital and Corporations have even more power over workers than they do now.
Again, Trump has never spelled out one single detail of one single plan to help American workers. All he’s done is tell you to trust him. He hasn’t demonstrated why you should. Ever. Not once.
Billy_TParticipantYou go on to say:
Trump is not the establishment as all the establishment is all in on trying to defeat Trump. One has to be blind not to see it. Trump wants to shit can the TPP and renegotiate NAFTA and if necessary to shit can NAFTA too. Trump wants to have a dialogue with Russia against ISIS. Trump wants to audit the Federal Reserve. Trump wants to end illegal immigration. Trump ants to support the police and our 2nd Amendment right. All of these are contrary to the wishes of the establishment. Their time is done. The people are speaking through Trump. The election won’t be close to allow the establishment to steal it.
Your first sentence uses your premise as your conclusion. Sorry, logic doesn’t work that way.
Second, Trump, as president, won’t have the power to get rid of NAFTA, even if he wants to. That’s up to Congress. And when it was originally passed, more Republicans voted for it than Dems.
Third, Obama has had a dialogue with Russia about ISIS already.
Fourth, we definitely should audit the Fed. Bernie Sanders has worked hard to pass just such a bill for many years, and hasn’t been successful. I’d love to see the duopoly actually do it and let the sunshine in.
Fifth, Clinton also supports the police and the 2nd amendment. No difference there. Obama does too. “Gun rights,” in fact, expanded on his watch to include open carry in national parks. There were zero losses even under the right’s mistaken reinterpretation of the 2nd.
The establishment is perfectly fine with the 2nd amendment and gun proliferation. It’s never tried to stop it. It also obviously is strongly supportive of the police. The police protect the establishment from the actual will of the people all too often.
3. Wow. If by a “dialogue” you mean threatening Russia by overthrowing the Russian friendly duly elected government of the Ukraine to expand and base NATO’s anti-missile shield in the Ukraine as well as allow Monsanto to further expand its GMO market into the Ukraine then I have to wonder about the efficacy of the dialogue you tout. Putin has made it crystal clear he views the expansion and basing of NATO’s anti-missile shield as a direct military threat and Russia has banned all GMO food yet the winds from the Ukraine will spread GMO pollens into Russia. We can then discuss Syria in which Russia is at war with ISIS while the US supports ISIS attacking Syrian government forces. Since Syria has been a Russian ally for over 40 years and the Russians were invited into the conflict by the Syrian government the US has meddled in Syria in violation of international law. Some dialogue Obama has there with Russia!
5. Total BULLSHIT. Hildabeast and Obama would love to take away the 2nd Amendment and EVERYONE knows that. As for supporting the police Obama has been a disaster. Hildabeast would love to get BLM’s support if she could.
We won’t agree about 1 and 2, and we do agree about 3 — though I don’t give Paul as much credit as you do, and his reasons for going after the Fed are, well, fringe nonsense. But that’s another story. So I’ll just respond to 3 and 5.
On 3.) I’m not happy with our interference in Ukraine, either, and I think we egged on Putin by bringing NATO too close to the Russian borders. Recently finished reading a bio of the Romanovs, and it reminded me about the centuries and centuries of invasion and threats to Russia, and their often merciless responses. IMO, there are no good guys in that mix, between us and Putin. Two empires with endless imperialist desires. But you’re wrong about US support for ISIS. That doesn’t exist. And in Syria, enemies are friends for a time, and friends are enemies for a time, and allies fight together on the same side as enemies, and vice versa. It’s a clusterfuck of epic proportions, and Trump doesn’t have a clue how to handle it either.
On 5.) There is absolutely zero evidence that Obama and Clinton want to touch the 2nd amendment, nor do they need to to implement the gun safety regulations they’ve proposed, timid and tepid as they are. All of that falls easily within the parameters of that amendment, and they could go much, much further, and should. Nothing they’ve ever talked about goes against it — even under the radical reinterpretation of Heller. I think what Trump and the NRA have done is to wildly, radically, insanely inflate the supposed “right” stipulated in the Second beyond anything resembling the reality of the words on the page, their historical context, and two centuries of juridical precedent. Even after Heller trashed those two centuries, nothing Clinton or Obama has ever proposed goes against the SA, so there is no need to get rid of it.
I think you’re confusing the radical right’s absurd reinterpretation of the 2nd with its reality as an amendment. In short, they just don’t need to touch it in order to implement serious gun safety legislation. All of that would easily fit within its parameters, context and history.
Billy_TParticipantAlso, on NAFTA, trade and Trump.
He’s been lying to his followers from the beginning about what is actually going on. Instead, he’s used jingoistic and xenophobic triggers to get them to believe these trade deals help other countries while uniquely screwing over Americans. In reality, they make things radically better for capitalists, capital and especially American capitalists and capital. But he’ll never be honest about that with you. He wants you to hate Mexicans and the Chinese and poor people around the world and to believe they’re screwing you over, when it’s actually American business owners and interests who are.
They wrote the treaties. They lobbied to get them passed. They benefit. They ship millions of jobs overseas, chasing after cheaper and cheaper labor and more and more profits. Trump does this too, to this day. So he can’t be honest about the real set up, because then you’d be angry at him and people like him, so he scapegoats impoverished Mexicans and Chinese and Malaysians instead, even though they’re getting the shaft too. Labor is getting the shaft. Capital, capitalism and global corporatism win, and that includes Trump.
He’s conning his followers. And it’s too obvious to miss.
Billy_TParticipantYou go on to say:
Trump is not the establishment as all the establishment is all in on trying to defeat Trump. One has to be blind not to see it. Trump wants to shit can the TPP and renegotiate NAFTA and if necessary to shit can NAFTA too. Trump wants to have a dialogue with Russia against ISIS. Trump wants to audit the Federal Reserve. Trump wants to end illegal immigration. Trump ants to support the police and our 2nd Amendment right. All of these are contrary to the wishes of the establishment. Their time is done. The people are speaking through Trump. The election won’t be close to allow the establishment to steal it.
Your first sentence uses your premise as your conclusion. Sorry, logic doesn’t work that way.
Second, Trump, as president, won’t have the power to get rid of NAFTA, even if he wants to. That’s up to Congress. And when it was originally passed, more Republicans voted for it than Dems.
Third, Obama has had a dialogue with Russia about ISIS already.
Fourth, we definitely should audit the Fed. Bernie Sanders has worked hard to pass just such a bill for many years, and hasn’t been successful. I’d love to see the duopoly actually do it and let the sunshine in.
Fifth, Clinton also supports the police and the 2nd amendment. No difference there. Obama does too. “Gun rights,” in fact, expanded on his watch to include open carry in national parks. There were zero losses even under the right’s mistaken reinterpretation of the 2nd.
The establishment is perfectly fine with the 2nd amendment and gun proliferation. It’s never tried to stop it. It also obviously is strongly supportive of the police. The police protect the establishment from the actual will of the people all too often.
Billy_TParticipantbnw,
I gave you the proof that he’s losing in all the polls. Do you have proof to the contrary? And, again, Trump IS the establishment. I have no idea why you think he’s this anti-establishment crusader who will go against the status quo. He’s supposed to be a billionaire, which makes him a plutocrat. He’s even more “establishment” than the Clintons. He’s not a threat to anyone in the ruling class. He’s a part of it.
And all of his policies would help his fellow plutocrats get much, much richer. He’d personally pocket tens of millions, as would his heirs and all of their ruling class buddies, just from his proposed tax cuts. And all the multinational corporations sending jobs overseas would also benefit from his massive tax cuts and deregulation.
I honestly don’t understand how you can see him as a champion for anyone but the 1%.
WRONG! You did not give such proof. You were suckered by both HuffPo and RealClearPolitics which is what they love to do. They set you up by not including the polls in which Trump LEADS Hildabeast on that page. Click the “Show More” to see what both of those rags chose to ignore.
bnw,
They showed the polls by date, with the latest first. When you click on “show more,” you get them going back further in time. They both list a huge assortment of polls, but neither shows Trump ahead after July 23rd.
Again, there was no attempt to “sucker” anyone. They just showed the most recent polls first.
Billy_TParticipantHe’s behind in every poll.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton
The above link shows all the major polling outfits.
Another aggregator:
Same thing. Trump is losing in every poll.
Huge crowds don’t show anything but diehard support. You can’t win general elections with just diehards. And you’re talking thousands of people in a nation of 321 million. Sanders had bigger crowds than Trump, and he lost to HRC.
Bankruptcies. Anyone with six to his name has no business being in business, and especially no business bragging about how awesome he is at business.
No he isn’t. Rueters poll was BS since it polled 15% more registered democrats and thus showed Hildabeast up by double digits. The establishment is pulling out all the stops and only the naive will continue to believe the lie.
bnw,
I gave you the proof that he’s losing in all the polls. Do you have proof to the contrary? And, again, Trump IS the establishment. I have no idea why you think he’s this anti-establishment crusader who will go against the status quo. He’s supposed to be a billionaire, which makes him a plutocrat. He’s even more “establishment” than the Clintons. He’s not a threat to anyone in the ruling class. He’s a part of it.
And all of his policies would help his fellow plutocrats get much, much richer. He’d personally pocket tens of millions, as would his heirs and all of their ruling class buddies, just from his proposed tax cuts. And all the multinational corporations sending jobs overseas would also benefit from his massive tax cuts and deregulation.
I honestly don’t understand how you can see him as a champion for anyone but the 1%.
Billy_TParticipantClean and dry boots here. I know a BS argument when I read it. IDs are so onerous! That is the argument. Not having to show my passport or driver’s license, or utility bills or being forced to use a credit card or otherwise some businesses crap their pants over suspected terrorism. Be gone with IDs! They are bulky and can be lost so just take my word for it. I am who I say I am.
bnw, if we set aside the ID issue for a moment, which you’re not getting, that’s far from being the extent of the GOP strategy to suppress the vote. In states they control, they’ve also made it much more difficult for likely Dem voters by reducing early voting; same-day registration; making it next to impossible to conduct voter-registration drives and wiping out Sunday voting . . . . the latter being THE traditional day for blacks to gather after church and get their neighbors to the polls. They’ve also shortened voting hours and cut back on the number of polling offices, too, thus creating endless lines in areas most likely to go for the Dems.
The GOP knows that if Dems and Republicans vote in the same percentages, the Dems win. They’re are more Dems. So the GOP has done its best to suppress the vote, especially among blacks and college students . . . and the latter is where the ID issue kicks back in. College kids with ID are turned away, after GOP controlled states change the type of ID accepted. A gun license, yeah. That works. A college ID, no. etc. etc.
Even Republicans admit they do this. They bragged about it in Pennsylvania last time, saying it would guarantee a Romney victory. Luckily, the courts overturned it.
Billy_TParticipantAnother key here (IMO). Trump is only within striking distance to begin with because of Clinton. Had the Dems nominated any of a dozen other candidates, Trump would now be so far behind, he would have given up months ago. I think a Warren or a Biden would be crushing him right now, for instance. Not that they necessarily represent my own views, though they’re closer to them than Clinton’s. They just don’t have her baggage. And it’s that baggage that enables Trump to “only” be down by roughly 7 points nationally, with no real chance in the electoral college as things stand. As things go right now, it looks like HRC doesn’t even need to win the swing states in order to get to 270.
In short, the Dems picked the wrong year to nominate a Clinton. With a shattered, reeling GOP, a better candidate would have given the Dems Congress too. With HRC, they likely get the White House and the Senate, but then probably lose the Senate again in 2018. A different Dem would likely get them the White House, Congress and keep the latter throughout their first term at least.
Trump isn’t behind in the honest polls. His huge crowds attest to that. BTW business bankruptcies are not personal bankruptcy. While I do not agree with stiffing anyone for product or services rendered that is the law with which both parties in a transaction operate.
He’s behind in every poll.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-general-election-trump-vs-clinton
The above link shows all the major polling outfits.
Another aggregator:
Same thing. Trump is losing in every poll.
Huge crowds don’t show anything but diehard support. You can’t win general elections with just diehards. And you’re talking thousands of people in a nation of 321 million. Sanders had bigger crowds than Trump, and he lost to HRC.
Bankruptcies. Anyone with six to his name has no business being in business, and especially no business bragging about how awesome he is at business.
Billy_TParticipantAnyway, the above said . . . I’d be interested in reading your take on her policies — past, present and likely future.
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