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Billy_TParticipantThe ‘russians’ may have accessed Rep stuff, but that doesn’t mean wikileaks had an agenda. We dont know where wikileaks got its info from.
Moreover, i dont care if wikileaks had an ‘agenda’. What if they ‘did’ prefer Trump over Hillary? Its not a crime. Its just an agenda. And since they only told the truth about Hillary, it doesn’t seem out of line to me. I mean telling the truth while having an agenda is not the worst thing in the world.
w
vWV, I’m with you on most things political, and have learned a lot from you over the years. In some cases, it took me awhile, but I eventually got there.
;>)
But in this case? I’m not seeing it. And what Assange and the Russian hackers did actually is a “crime.” They stole private information without permission and, as mentioned, none of it, not one iota of it, as far as I can see, tells us anything that benefits us, the planet, the country, or advances the public interest in any way.
For me, it would be different if the exposure included the things I mention above. If it exposed dark and sinister secret plans to wreak havoc on the innocent and the planet. But nothing that came out comes close to any of that. It just gives people the general sense that “these people are uniquely corrupt!” even though no individual email actually shows anything beyond the banal. And the only way that generalized feeling could take hold is the absence of similar leaking of GOP emails.
Chomsky (and ZN) could describe the “semiotic” rationale behind that a hell of a lot better than my feeble attempts. But we humans basically understand the world through language, and we understand language in relation to itself and the world. When language is lopped off in midstream, and given to us in fragments, without context, our understanding is distorted. The more lopped off and fragmented, the more distorted it gets. We need to see X in relation to Y and Z and every other letter to really get a sense of what X means. Throw it out there all alone, and humans can’t “get it.”
In short, I think what Assange, Wikileaks, the Russian hackers, et al did was immoral, unethical and dangerous for the country. It was theft without any benefit to the public whatsoever (in my view), and it helped give us Trump and the hard-right GOP.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by
Billy_T.
Billy_TParticipantBtw, I know some of my fellow leftists are certain that the MSM was in the tank for Clinton, and that Trump got a raw deal. In reality, the MSM spent the vast majority of its time — and this has been fully documented — on the emails. And it wasn’t close. No other topic was given as much coverage, and none of it was positive for HRC.
Assange and Russia were determined, whatever their reasons, to put Trump in the White House. And they, along with Comey, helped do that. Though, as I keep telling the Democrats I know, the majority of this goes on Clinton and the Dems. Going back, in fact, at least forty some years, when they decided to abandon the working class and embrace neoliberalism.
But if they had run Sanders, or pretty much any other candidate, none of it would have mattered. Assange, Russia and Comey wouldn’t have been enough to make up for how horrible Trump is, and everything we’ve learned since the election shows that, in my view.
Billy_TParticipantWell, i dont know what ‘Russia’ did or didn’t do,
but i do know the Hillary/Podesta wikileaks emails were true and accurate.So assuming for the sake of argument that russia or some other group leaked,
true and accurate info to the American Public….how is that such a bad thing?w
vIf you do that selectively you have an agenda. I mean it really is that simple.
If they had leaked republican stuff TOO, I could see your point.
But they did it selectively, so it is absolutely inescapable that they had an agenda. In short, they took sides. (BTW the Russians DID access republican material. They just chose not to release it.)
And btw on to another point … I am both against the USA interfering in elections abroad and foreign powers interfering in american elections. One doesnt justify the other. To me if you’re against one you should be against the other. And that’s regardless whether or not we personally like or dislike the target.
…
I agree with this. As much as we may dislike the duopoly, reject it completely, want to replace it in total, the old adage “two wrongs don’t make a right” is especially applicable in the case. And I think it’s incumbent upon leftists, of all people, to remember this. I identify as a leftist primarily as a moral and ethical stance. First and foremost I see leftist philosophy as morally superior, with the essential component of “compassion for others” very close to the top. I don’t see anything about the hacks, the theft of personal data without permission, and the selective leaking of that data as having one iota of moral and ethical support.
Main reason why I say that? We learned nothing from those emails that will benefit the public in any way, shape or form, and nothing we couldn’t have guessed before the hacks. Oh, like, political operatives act like political operatives. And, like, politicians do a lot of stupid shit in order to win elections.
We already knew that.
This wasn’t the leaking of a secret invasion to topple a government; handbooks on torture and its black sites; exposure of corporate pollution; exposure of secret funding of terrorist groups . . . . etc. etc.
This was the most banal, everyday, wonky nonsense, exchanged between normal, everyday folks, but because there was no exposure of the GOP’s exchanges, it gave the appearance of singular, unique, “Democrat only” chicanery and buffoonery. And that likely tipped the election in favor of someone far worse, with a party even more destructive than the Dems.
It wasn’t justified.
Billy_TParticipantJust a couple of notes.
Referring to routine mod actions as “censorship” is being antagonistic. The onus is on the poster to make it clear they are not attacking another poster. If nothing else say “this is not directed at posters but at….”
And, BT, pushing someone for answers is not productive. It creates a charged atmosphere and personalizes discussion (though obviously it’s not the same as a personal attack.) On a politics board, it is possible (in theory) either that there’s complete miscommunication that won’t be amended by pushing, or the person chooses not to answer, or they think they did answer. So I guess I am just saying, don’t push people in ways they can or do on other boards. Just a suggestion. The idea is we’re here for the long haul and something dropped today can be picked up again later in other ways, so “demanding an answer” (scare quote not real quote) just isn’t productive, really, and can cause sparks.
Okay, ZN. Understood. Will let it go.
Take care, everyone. Enjoy this icy cold day.
Billy_TParticipantBecause in this case we have the luxury of Assange answering those very questions you for some reason seem intent upon asking me and when I continually respond with Assange’s own replies which are somehow never enough for you.
No, bnw, Assange can’t possibly answer the questions I posed. He doesn’t and can’t speak for you. And I’ve read his spin, his excuses and rationalization already, long before I asked my questions about your views.
I couldn’t care less what he has to say about his theft of private information, his hacking, his playing god with the lives of innocent people. I already know where he stands.
I’m trying to find our where you stand on this, in your own words. I wouldn’t have asked otherwise.
Billy_TParticipantAnd I’m still waiting for you to actually answer a single one of my questions.
I answer your questions. It is you who ignores my questions. So why should I continue to extend such courtesy when I am routinely censored? Again enjoy and run with your safe space!
No, bnw, you haven’t answered my questions. Like:
They don’t “shine the spotlight on government corruption, malfeasance, lies etc.” If they did that, we would have had a massive leak about the Republicans too. Who controls Congress, bnw? Who controls most of the states?
Do you honestly believe “corruption, malfeasance, lies, etc.” only comes from the Democrats?
Why do you support the leaking of private information without permission when Assange does it?
For starters.
Listen to the very recent Hannity interview of Assange in which your questions are answered by Assange.
I bid you good day in the other thread, but will respond here before I go:
How can Assange answer those questions for you? I wanted to know your view of these things.
Billy_TParticipantOK, since nobody guessed, I was thinking that Trump fits the term “crybully” to a T.
and, crybully is easier to say than “thin skinned winy little bitch”.
I like it.
Agreed, TSRF. He’s the poster-child for that. And it’s what Mob bosses tend to do as well. Trump has serious Mob ties, and he’s going to be, in effect, our first Mob boss-in-chief.
If I were a religious man, I’d say “heaven help us all!”
Billy_TParticipantAgain, bnw, no safe space is needed for anything I’ve said. And I’ve never needed it to make my case or debate things here or in the real world.
Au contraire.
Then state your case and let’s see. One-liners don’t count as debate. Can’t make a decent argument or back it up that way.
Go for it.
Safe space. Run with it. By design I have no such luxury.
You are free to do what I’ve done, which is to be truthful about public figures and the political right. That doesn’t go against board rules, because it’s not directed at posters.
You can do the same. Post anything you want about public figures and any politicians you disdain. You have here, on multiple occasions. No censorship. The mods only step in when we posters make it personal. If we refrain from that, they tend not to step in.
In short, you’re every bit as free to say what you want here as I am.
Billy_TParticipantAgain, bnw, no safe space is needed for anything I’ve said. And I’ve never needed it to make my case or debate things here or in the real world.
Au contraire.
Then state your case and let’s see. One-liners don’t count as debate. Can’t make a decent argument or back it up that way.
Go for it.
January 8, 2017 at 12:58 pm in reply to: Tilikum, the star of the documentary "Blackfish" has died. #62717
Billy_TParticipantTilikum died at the age of 36. Can’t help but wonder if the stress of living in a tiny tank contributed to his death.
This is Tilikum in his living quarters…

Wild orcas can live to 90 and one wild orca called “Granny” has been missing for several months and is presumed dead. She was 106.
If you’ve never seen “Blackfish” I highly recommend it. It shines a light on the cruelty these animals are subjected to while living in confined conditions in marine parks. There are no documented cases of a wild orca killing a human. Tilikum killed three. This is most likely due to the stress of living in confinement.
That seems self-evident. They’re not supposed to be couped up like that. And it’s monstrous what we do to animals, in all kinds of ways. Zoos, aquariums, theme parks, etc. etc. The food chain, etc.
I should become a full-on vegan. Though I do my best to buy sustainable, organic, “free range” whenever possible. But it’s not enough, I know.
Freedom for animals, hopefully, becomes a big time social justice issue. Social justice can’t be just about us, obviously. Living in harmony with the planet has to become a part of that as well.
Billy_TParticipantAgain, bnw, no safe space is needed for anything I’ve said. And I’ve never needed it to make my case or debate things here or in the real world.
Billy_TParticipantwikileaks empowers the increasingly threatened whistle-blower who can at least through wikileaks shine the spotlight on government corruption, malfeasance, lies etc. It is what the press used to do.
They don’t “shine the spotlight on government corruption, malfeasance, lies etc.” If they did that, we would have had a massive leak about the Republicans too. Who controls Congress, bnw? Who controls most of the states?
Do you honestly believe “corruption, malfeasance, lies, etc.” only comes from the Democrats?
And I gave you all kinds of proof that wikileaks has harmed innocent people, even gotten some killed.
We can shine the spotlight on all the things you believe need transparency without doing that. Assange obviously couldn’t give a shit about “collateral damage.”
They leak what they have and can verify. You should listen to the Hannity interview of Assange.
Hannity is one of the worst media figures in the history of this country, and can’t get through a single sentence without lying. Why on earth would I want to watch him interview Assange? A person who, btw, Hannity and his fellow right-wing pundits (not long ago) said should be executed.
It’s only because Assange went after Clinton and the Dems and didn’t lay a glove on Trump and the Republicans that he’s now suddenly their hero.
The hypocrisy on display when it comes to Assange is off the charts.
Billy_TParticipantI would respond and in the same vernacular but again I would be accused of name-calling. Enjoy the safe space.
Unless I misunderstand the board rules, it’s not out of bounds to criticize public figures here. That’s what I did. And I speak the truth about them.
It is, however, out of bounds to engage in “name-calling” with fellow posters. Again, if I understand the board rules. And I didn’t do that.
No “safe space” needed for what I wrote.
BS. Just keep believing that.
I post facts, not BS. And facts about right-wing BS. The right floods us and overwhelms us with so much BS, day after day after day, it becomes nearly impossible to keep up with. Which is the point. And it’s making the country crazy. Which is also the point.
Oh, like the one about Podesta being a satanist, or that the leaked emails prove Clinton and company were running a child sex-trade operation out of that little pizza shop, or that Podesta used “password” as his email password. All of that has been thoroughly debunked. It’s all bullshit, lies and more bullshit.
And the really sad thing? The tragic thing for America? There is plenty of real stuff to expose about the Dems — and the GOP. There’s absolutely no need to invent shit about them in order to achieve the “public good.” We have more than enough very real horrors to deal with, like war, the surveillance state, capitalism, environmental destruction, mass inequality, etc. etc.
It hurts all of us when the right produces mass quantities of bullshit and people buy it.
And it needs to stop.
Billy_TParticipantI would respond and in the same vernacular but again I would be accused of name-calling. Enjoy the safe space.
Unless I misunderstand the board rules, it’s not out of bounds to criticize public figures here. That’s what I did. And I speak the truth about them.
It is, however, out of bounds to engage in “name-calling” with fellow posters. Again, if I understand the board rules. And I didn’t do that.
No “safe space” needed for what I wrote.
Billy_TParticipantwikileaks empowers the increasingly threatened whistle-blower who can at least through wikileaks shine the spotlight on government corruption, malfeasance, lies etc. It is what the press used to do.
They don’t “shine the spotlight on government corruption, malfeasance, lies etc.” If they did that, we would have had a massive leak about the Republicans too. Who controls Congress, bnw? Who controls most of the states?
Do you honestly believe “corruption, malfeasance, lies, etc.” only comes from the Democrats?
And I gave you all kinds of proof that wikileaks has harmed innocent people, even gotten some killed.
We can shine the spotlight on all the things you believe need transparency without doing that. Assange obviously couldn’t give a shit about “collateral damage.”
Billy_TParticipantI learned a new term today, reading this very board: Crybully.
If there was a dictionary that had pictures of people next to terms, whose picture do you think would be next to “crybully”?
It’s similar to the hysteria against “political correctness.” In reality, PC is just the call for decency, civil dialogue, courtesy and good manners. Are there abuses? Yeah. But they’re incredibly rare. The thing the right does so well, and so effectively, is to take a tiny, tiny part for the whole, and blow that up into the Apocalypse. Its followers lap that stuff up like kids and koolaid, repeating it endlessly, across social media, until they’ve turned it into a supposed national crisis.
It’s like if the Rams had this wide receiver, who was really excellent, caught everything thrown his way, until one day . . . . he drops one. And the media picks up on that one drop, blows it up into an end of the world story, fans go crazy, spread it through social media, and they get so whipped up into a frenzy, they burn the guy’s house down and he flees for his life.
That’s what the right does. That’s how they work. From Alex Jones to Trump, they lie, lie, lie or, at best, on their best days, exaggerate things beyond all bounds, sending their fans into paroxysms of hate. So a completely innocent comment about “cheese pizza” becomes “code” for child sex-trafficking, and every mass shooting becomes a government-led “false flag” operation.
These people, before social media and the Internet, were basically harmless, isolated and alone. But in the Internet age, they’ve managed to find each other and become dangerous. Right-wing, paranoid, fringe lunatics have found one another and together they’ve mainstreamed their crazy.
This is NOT going to be a safe and happy four years.
Billy_TParticipantAs for being a journalist organization.
Generally speaking, with exceptions that go against the rules, journalists interview willing participants and publish their findings. They investigate an event, a company, the government, by collecting a large enough number of those interviews and connecting the dots.
Wikileaks doesn’t do that. They receive stolen information, from unwilling victims, and leak it.
In the past did they leak some information in the public interest? Yes. But because they tend to do mass dumps of stolen information, this will always include innocents whom they hurt, destroy, and in some cases, help kill in the process.
Committed journalists don’t do that. At least they do everything possible to avoid that. Assange obviously couldn’t care less about the “collateral damage” in his wake, and this last election proved, without a doubt, that he has an extremely narrow agenda. He decided to help Trump and the corporate world by leaving them alone, while he focused all of his attention on the Dems to cripple them.
And this helped spur mass hysteria and pure idiocy (among the easily duped) like Pizzagate, which led to a North Carolinian, driving up to that pizza shop, and firing his gun inside it. The innocent people there were very lucky he missed.
In short, Assange has become a menace. If you don’t trust the government, or corporate America, why on earth would you want to add another self-appointed “god” to the list?
Billy_TParticipantAlso, about that praise of Wikileaks in Wikipedia. Don’t stop there. Wikipedia also says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks
Inadequate curation and violations of personal privacy
Wikileaks has drawn criticism for violating the personal privacy of a multitude of individuals and inadequately curating its content. These critics include transparency advocates, such as Edward Snowden, the Sunlight Foundation and the Federation of American Scientists.[341]
Wikileaks has published individuals’ Social Security numbers, medical information, and credit card numbers.[342] An analysis by the Associated Press found that Wikileaks had in one of its mass-disclosures published “the personal information of hundreds of people — including sick children, rape victims and mental health patients”.[342] Wikileaks has named teenage rape victims, and outed an individual arrested for homosexuality in Saudi Arabia.[342] Some of Wikileaks’ cables “described patients with psychiatric conditions, seriously ill children or refugees”.[342] An analysis of Wikileaks’ Saudi cables “turned up more than 500 passport, identity, academic or employment files… three dozen records pertaining to family issues in the cables — including messages about marriages, divorces, missing children, elopements and custody battles. Many are very personal, like the marital certificates that reveal whether the bride was a virgin. Others deal with Saudis who are deeply in debt, including one man who says his wife stole his money. One divorce document details a male partner’s infertility. Others identify the partners of women suffering from sexually transmitted diseases including HIV and Hepatitis C.”[342] Two individuals named in the DNC leaks were targeted by identity thieves following Wikileaks’ reveal of their Social Security and credit card information.[342]
Wikileaks’ publishing of Sony’s hacked e-mails drew criticism for violating the privacy of Sony’s employees and for failing to be in the public interest.[343][344] Michael A. Cohen, a fellow at the Century Foundation, argues that “data dumps like these represent a threat to our already shrinking zone of privacy.”[343] He noted that the willingness of Wikileaks to publish information of this type encourages hacking and cybertheft: “With ready and willing amplifiers, what’s to deter the next cyberthief from stealing a company’s database of information and threatening to send it to Wikileaks if a list of demands aren’t met?”[343]
The Sunlight Foundation, a nonprofit that advocates for open government, has criticized Wikileaks for inadequate curation of its content. With the DNC leaks, “Wikileaks again failed the due diligence review we expect of putatively journalistic entities when it published the personal information of ordinary citizens, including passport and Social Security numbers contained in the hacked emails of Democratic National Committee staff. We are not alone in raising ethical questions about Wikileaks’ shift from whistleblower to platform for weaponized transparency. Any organization that “doxxes” a public is harming privacy.”[345] The manner in which Wikileaks publishes content can have the effect of censoring political enemies: “Wikileaks’ indiscriminate disclosure in this case is perhaps the closest we’ve seen in reality to the bogeyman projected by enemies to reform — that transparency is just a Trojan Horse for chilling speech and silencing political enemies.”[345]
In July 2016, Edward Snowden criticized Wikileaks for insufficiently curating its content.[346] When Snowden made data public, he did so by working with the Washington Post, the Guardian and other news organizations, chosing only to make documents public which exposed National Security Agency surveillance programs.[346] Content that compromised national security or exposed sensitive personal information was withheld.[346] Wikileaks, on the other hand, makes little effort to remove sensitive personal information or withhold content with adverse national security implications. Wikileaks responded by accusing Snowden of pandering to Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.[346]
University of North Carolina Professor Zeynep Tufekci has criticized Wikileaks for exposing sensitive personal information: “WikiLeaks, for example, gleefully tweeted to its millions of followers that a Clinton Foundation employee had attempted suicide… Data dumps by WikiLeaks have outed rape victims and gay people in Saudi Arabia, private citizens’ emails and personal information in Turkey, and the voice mail messages of Democratic National Committee staff members.”[347] She argues these data dumps which violate personal privacy without being in the public interest “threaten our ability to dissent by destroying privacy and unleashing a glut of questionable information that functions, somewhat unexpectedly, as its own form of censorship, rather than as a way to illuminate the maneuverings of the powerful.”[347]
In January 2017, Wikileaks proposed to create a database tracking verified Twitter users which would include sensitive personal information homes, families and finances.[348][349][350] According to the Chicago Tribune, “the proposal faced a sharp and swift backlash as technologists, journalists and security researchers slammed the idea as a “sinister” and dangerous abuse of power and privacy.”[348] Twitter furthermore bans the use of Twitter data for “surveillance purposes,” stating “Posting another person’s private and confidential information is a violation of the Twitter rules.”[349]
Billy_TParticipantYou assume it involves a hack and theft. You do not know that. Besides why would Twitter even want that information? wikileaks is proposing to verify the so called Twitter “verified” designation. Governments use social media to gain information on people all the time. Governments use social media to manufacture a history on people too in order to set the narrative in the MSM. I suspect a recent example is the Ft. Lauderdale shooter who supposedly took out a social media account only a week before but never added anything to it.
Imagine Twitter having an account for a Donald Trump claiming to be the president of the USA but really isn’t. You seem to trust Twitter? Why? wikileaks has a proven journalistic history-
It’s not an assumption, bnw. It’s a mathematical certainty. There is no other way for them to get that information. It doesn’t exist in public form. It only exists on servers its (Twitter’s) customers assume are protected from prying eyes.
And I never said I trust Twitter. I don’t. I don’t trust corporate America. I don’t trust any of the social media companies. I also don’t trust the government on all of these matters. And I definitely don’t trust Assange.
But the difference between them is rather key. Twitter uses choose to give certain information to that corporation. Me? I wouldn’t. I don’t trust them with it. But that’s a person’s choice. Assange doesn’t ask anyone for permission to use their info. He just steals it and leaks it online against their will. When and if the government ever did this, you’d be against that, right?
Why do you support and the leaking of private information without permission when Assange does it?
Billy_TParticipantWe’ll have to wait and find out. I know my being clued in to this election (in reality I paid attention to what was happening in the real world) would give you the impression that I am in the loop, but I am not.
I’m not asking you because I think you were in the loop. I’m asking you because you use the phrase a lot and then tell us we shouldn’t “fear it.” We should “embrace it.”
So what is “it,” exactly? One would think you wouldn’t bother repeating a phrase if you didn’t know what it meant. And one would also think you know the plan to implement this and make it happen, or you wouldn’t say we should embrace it, etc.
This is pretty basic stuff. Just askin’.
We’ll see. Why fear the prospect of Making America Great Again?
If you’re okay with embracing something you can’t define, without a plan to make the something you can’t define work, go for it. But you shouldn’t expect others to join you in the embrace of the non-existent.
Trump is expecting his supporters to be just like the subjects of this masterpiece by Brueghel:

Pieter Bruegel the Elder (1568) The Blind Leading the Blind-
This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by
Billy_T.
Billy_TParticipantYes, this would involve a hack and theft. They couldn’t develop that database of “family/job/financial/housing relationships” without hacking and theft. When people sign up for a Twitter account, they assume this information is private, that it won’t be made public by Twitter, or they never would sign up.
Assange is saying he will steal those records, those private records, and make them public without anyone’s permission.
This may well risk people’s lives. Literally. That’s not an overreaction. And people who know IT know it will.
I have fifteen years experience in the field and it’s more than obvious to me that it’s extremely dangerous, and illegal, and immoral. And the people cited in the article are among the most knowledgeable people about the Net and the World Wide Web in its history. Plus Anonymous, another hacktivist group.
Billy_TParticipantThe information is about “verified” users only.
“Twitter “verifies” certain users, such as world leaders, nonprofit organizations and news outlets, with a blue check mark beside their names so that other users of the service can be confident about the posters’ identities.”
In other words wikileaks would be a check on the veracity of the Twitter “verified” user. Where do you see that wikileaks would be “hacking” this information? I don’t see it. As for the AI component that is so abundant these days in so many forms as to be expected. Don’t have to like it but better expect it.
You should continue quoting that part of the article. And add this part near the beginning:
“We are thinking of making an online database with all ‘verified’ twitter accounts & their family/job/financial/housing relationships,” WikiLeaks tweeted Friday.
Here’s what follows your part of the quote:
WikiLeaks, which has a verified Twitter account, did not say whether it would subject itself to the scrutiny it was proposing. (It was also unclear whether, under its plan, WikiLeaks would seek to uncover information about the financial lives of Russian President Vladimir Putin or President-elect Donald Trump, both of whom are verified on Twitter.)
Asked by journalist Kevin Collier why it needed to build a database of dossiers, WikiLeaks replied that the database would be used as a “metric to understand influence networks based on proximity graphs.”
But the proposal faced a sharp and swift backlash as technologists, journalists and security researchers slammed the idea as a “sinister” and dangerous abuse of power and privacy.
“This is a good plan. If you’re Darth Vader,” Matthew Green, a professor who teaches cryptography at Johns Hopkins University, tweeted.
Timothy Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web, compared the WikiLeaks proposal to a piece of British legislation that has been criticized as a massive boon to the surveillance industry.
“Don’t.even.think.about.it,” he tweeted.
Billy_TParticipantWe’ll have to wait and find out. I know my being clued in to this election (in reality I paid attention to what was happening in the real world) would give you the impression that I am in the loop, but I am not.
I’m not asking you because I think you were in the loop. I’m asking you because you use the phrase a lot and then tell us we shouldn’t “fear it.” We should “embrace it.”
So what is “it,” exactly? One would think you wouldn’t bother repeating a phrase if you didn’t know what it meant. And one would also think you know the plan to implement this and make it happen, or you wouldn’t say we should embrace it, etc.
This is pretty basic stuff. Just askin’.
Billy_TParticipantSo then why post? You just stated it didn’t affect you. Why were you compelled to post your three word post?
Why not? You seem to think Twitter is some set in stone entity that will allow an unlimited base of ever powerful information? I don’t. Only thing working for Twitter these days is Trump. Facebook, like MySpace before it is on its way down. Twitter will be no different. Besides with the known spying by the government on all its citizens via all forms of electronic communication why is what wikileaks is thinking about such an issue? Twitter is public not private information.
It looks like you didn’t bother reading the article, or the excerpts I posted.
Assange is threatening to steal and perhaps divulge private information that no one puts out on Twitter, by hacking into its database and collecting private info unavailable to the public. That info is private, not public information. Private. Until Assange decides to leak it without anyone’s permission.
One would think this would bother you, whether or not you use Twitter. I don’t. And I don’t have the same kind of exposure on social media that billions of people do these days, especially the young. But it still upsets me. I’m upset for them, and it’s pretty easy to see how this could really hurt millions of people . . . and even put their lives at risk.
Google “Doxing,” for starters.
Billy_TParticipantThis isn’t about the pledge of allegiance or the Lord’s Prayer (although I’m opposed to students being asked to recite either in a public school…).
This is what it’s about…
Ms. DeVos is a chip off the old block. At a 2001 gathering of conservative Christian philanthropists, she singled out education reform as a way to “advance God’s kingdom.”
She wants to use education to forward the religious right’s agenda.
That is HER opinion. You vote for YOUR school board accordingly.
She’ll be setting federal policy, bnw. So that makes it a national problem on a huge scale.
Trump has brought in a host of swamp creatures, including the most billionaires, lobbyists, CEOs and Wall Street big wigs in our history. And most of the people he’s tasked with running this or that agency have a long record of battling them (in order to increase their own wealth), undermining them (in order to increase their own wealth), suing them (to increase their own wealth), or seeking their destruction. Devos is easily one of the worst possible choices for the job she’s going to hold. She wants to do away with public education itself, and privatize it to make way for a theocracy instead.
That’s like the Rams hiring a football coach who hates the NFL, hates LA, hates football in general, and hates team sports.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by
Billy_T.
Billy_TParticipantHey Billy.
I believe I get what you are saying.
I think WV will back me up here when I say, we all have to be very careful on how we evaluate what the hell is going on around us.
We all live in our own reality tunnels, made by our initial imprinting and reinforced by our social programming.
The way our language is structured causes us to make and receive statements that are absolute: You are wrong. I am right. This is all bullshit. It should be, I believe you are wrong, I think I am right.
I know I am preaching to the choir. Thanks for coming back and good luck with the novel.
Best,
MattThanks, Matt.
I hope you and yours are well.
Billy_TParticipantTime to Make America Great Again! Don’t fear it. Embrace it!
I asked this of you before, and unless I missed it, you never responded. Could you please define what “Make America Great Again!” actually means?
Please be specific, and then tell us how Trump plans to make that happen, exactly. Cuz he never did. And it’s just empty rhetoric without an actual plan. It’s just a bumper sticker without an iota of actual substance.
Trump never told anyone what it (MAGA) actually means, nor did he describe his plans to make that bumper sticker slogan happen. But that empty rhetoric sure did resonant with neo-Nazis in particular, and white supremacists in general. It sure did make them cheer and say heil Trump with the salute to boot.
So, again, what does it really mean, bnw?
Billy_TParticipantThat’s a good article, Billy.
I don’t like the idea of vouchers for religious education. I don’t care for any voucher system, religious or not. In the 60s vouchers were used in the south to keep black kids from getting a good education. Public schools were shut down and the vouchers allowed access only to private segregated schools.
Paint it anyway you want but vouchers are exclusionary. If we want to improve the education of our students it has to be with everyone in mind. Not a select few. We have to improve public schools. A voucher system would just perpetuate the widening gap between the rich and the poor.
Agreed. I can’t stand vouchers. As you say, it’s just a backdoor way to screw-over the non-rich, and has deep roots in racist policy.
Again, I already knew Devos was a nutcase about vouchers. I just didn’t know she was also a religious zealot, or related to Erik Prince. From everything I’ve read about him, he’s one of the most despicable human beings in America, and Blackwater was in reality a for-profit “terrorist” group.
The more we learn about the people Trump is surrounding himself with, the more it becomes impossible to claim it didn’t matter who won.
Two rotten choices — I voted for neither of them (Stein). But the one we ended up with is significantly worse than the other candidate from the duopoly.
Billy_TParticipantTSRF,
And it’s not really even about Twitter. It could be anything. It’s the idea that Assange thinks it’s okay to set up a secret database from any social media site of his choosing, without anyone’s permission, and with the very real possibility that any average Joe or Jane could be Doxed. Not just Big Wigs. Anyone. At Assange’s own discretion. His choice, like he’s some god or something.
And if he’s willing to tell us about this one particular plan, what about the stuff he doesn’t want to tell us about?
Is he any better than any corporate or government surveillance regime, when he acts like that? Not in my view. He has never once, not ever, asked anyone’s permission before leaking personal information, the vast majority of which has absolutely zero public benefit, and may have actually destroyed the lives of hundreds or thousands of innocent people.
And he’s completely discredited himself this election cycle by choosing to only leak Democratic Party info — again, virtually none of which helps improve quality of life one iota and may have done the opposite. Whether or not he once benefited the public, he isn’t doing that now, and it sounds like he’s turned into a full blown menace.
Billy_TParticipantAnother article about Devos and the Christian Right:
Excerpt (There are several links within the article as well):
Education is arguably the most important front in the battle to bring the Kingdom of God to bear on contemporary culture. For the religious right, this means promoting alternatives to public schools including Christian schools, charter schools, and home schooling, with the longstanding goal of replacing the public education system with private Christian education. I wrote about the efforts back in a 2012 essay here on RD but those efforts date as far back as the 1960s and the work of R.J. Rushdoony.
Framed as “school choice,” vouchers, charter schools, and tuition tax credit plans serve this goal by shifting public funds toward religious schools with little to no accountability to the public. In Building God’s Kingdom: Inside the World of Christian Reconstruction I wrote about one such school in Florida that teaches creationism, dominionism, women’s submission, and so forth, with public money.
Opposition to public education for the religious right is rooted in a worldview in which education is solely the responsibility of families (and explicitly not the civil government), and in which there are no religiously neutral spheres of influence. There is no secular sphere that can function as a neutral space; only the Kingdom of God, and “the world” to be influenced by Christians for the Kingdom. (For our religion nerds this is Van Til and Kuyper, key architects of the Reformed tradition from which DeVos comes.) These views were popularized in the work of Rushdoony and the Christian Reconstructionists and became dominant in the religious right, which is not to say that everyone who holds them is a Christian Reconstructionist.
Religions Dispatches is typically very good when it comes to the intersection of public policy and religion. Very good reporting.
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