Yesterday was a great day!

This topic has 20 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 2 months ago by Zooey.

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October 17, 2016 at 8:10 am #55484
PA Ram
Participant
Uh…no–not for the Rams. But I had a great day. I was at a beautiful fall festival–fun train ride through the Lehigh Gorge, great food…music, fun. Nice weather. Oh–there was that one downer: shortly after one o’clock I started checking the Rams score. When I first checked the Rams were up 14-7.

Wow. Cool.

When I checked again it was tied at 14. Hmmmmm.

Another peek showed them down by 7.

But they came back.

And finally—they lost.

Oh well. On to some wine tasting.

Great day.

I’ve hit that tipping point again.

I don’t REALLY care. They are 3-3. The excitement is gone. They are a team that can win every game. They are a team that can lose every game. They will probably split that and when the pendulum stops swinging they will find themselves at 7-9 or if things go well, maybe 8-8.

The Titans will get a middle 1st round selection. Congrats, Titans. Maybe next year the Rams won’t be injured. Maybe they’ll have some sort of steady offensive system. Maybe Goff will come along quickly as they develop him–but if they have a lousy year, remember–the rookie will be developing. You have to allow for that.

If he plays well, there will probably be more changes to deal with so you have to allow for that.

If they rinse and repeat this 7-9 show next year you have to understand–there will be circumstances that will cause that. It won’t be Fisher’s fault—ever. They should offer him a ten year extension. Stability is a good thing. If I can count on 7-9 every year, I know how to plan for football season. It’s nice to know that Christmas comes the same time every year.

In fairness—it isn’t just the Rams who are mediocre. The NFL is there. This may be part of the problem the NFL is having. People don’t have patience waiting on their teams anymore. Life is happening. Why should fans waste a perfectly good Sunday on a coin flip team that could look great and thrill them–or look horrible and disgust them?

It’s one thing to watch a team steadily improve over the course of 5 years. Fans are extremely forgiving. They want to believe. They wait. Sure–they complain but they want to believe. But if one year looks like the next over and over it breaks them and suddenly they don’t care as much. They lose that emotional investment.

I get sometimes why RFL sort of walked away from the heat of it all to a more comfortable place.

I will always watch–like the moron who can’t help touch the electric buzzer even though it shocks him, time and time again. But I’ve noticed I hit a tipping point during these 7-9 seasons where the emotion flows out like air in a punctured balloon. I’m mildly interested but emotionally distant.

If they make a run I’ll fill up the balloon again but I declined to get on the 7-9 roller coaster of emotions of the new Disney attraction Jeff Fisher’s Runaway Train. I have no faith that Fisher will ever produce a winner.

I must say–reading the boards–there are many Rams fans with incredible patience, and who will point out the various problems this team has that excuse any responsibility for the head coach. And they aren’t even wrong. The fact that the Rams defense is just not as good with the changes and injuries is not some made-up thing. It’s real. It’s legitimate.

It’s also real that it is ALWAYS something. The team is not built to overcome the injures on offense or defense. Some teams are but they are rare. Most teams aren’t. The Patriots are an amazing team, really. The Rams are not them. Jeff Fisher is not Belichik. He will never be him. He needs everything to go right—and even then–if totally healthy–like the first game of the season–you just don’t know.

I believe he should be fired. I don’t think that’s happening. But it should. He has shown enough coaching ineptness, IMO to justify that. But I get that people can make a good argument for keeping him. I am done with him and have zero faith that even if he stays another three years the team will do much. I would love to come back on here in a few months and admit that I was obviously wrong. But I have no faith in him.

So….anyway—it doesn’t matter now. The Rams will win or lose next week. Hey–if they beat the Giants after this loss and a long London trip, Fisher will have done something right. That would be impressive. But will it be impressive for more than one game?

I hope so.

Anyway–I love the Rams, will always be a fan, will always pay attention to them. But my emotions won’t always be along for the ride.
- This topic was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by PA Ram.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
October 17, 2016 at 8:53 am #55486

wv
Participant

Glad you had a good time at the fall festival. I love festivals, myself.

I was thinking of going to the “7 and 9 Bullshit Festival” this year, but
i couldn’t afford the tickets.

I went last year though, and I thoroughly enjoyed the “Teacup Defense Ride”,

I ‘get’ the disappointment/anger and the giving-up-on-Fisher thing. I totally get that.
Perfectly reasonable reaction in my view.

But for me, 3-3 is a lot different than 8-8. There’s still a LOT of time for improvement.
And for Quinn to come back.

Remember they have played all six games with a back-up QB. No other team is doing that.

w
v

October 17, 2016 at 8:57 am #55487

zn
Moderator

PA Ram wrote:

I must say–reading the boards–there are many Rams fans with incredible patience, and who will point out the various problems this team has that excuse any responsibility for the head coach

See, from a different perspective than yours, no one is doing that.

It’s not excusing anything and asssessment of the HC is real.

The other side of this coin is for someone like me to point out that (using my language here, which I will temporarily indulge, as opposed to your language) that autopilot coach blame is not real assessment. The way I see it, for example, going 7-9 last year with a bad qb (who started out okay but melted down) and a rebuilt, green, and very injured-up OL is a sign of GOOD coaching.

It is not the case that anyone is “excusing” the head coach. We are evaluating him differently. Now the problem here of course is that there’s room for disagreement. So you SEE a mediocre coach repeating a bad situation. I SEE a good coach dealing with tough circumstances. Since you SEE it a certain way, I am making excuses. Since I SEE it a certain way, you are stuck in autopilot coach blame.

Lots of places that leads to dismissive board wars.

Here, it’s supposed to lead to live-and-let-live recognition that people just see things differently.

..

October 17, 2016 at 9:11 am #55488

wv
Participant

I expected the Rams D to give up a lot of points if Quinn didnt play.
I think i predicted they’d give up over 30. To me, losing Quinn is not just “an injury”.
Its a HUGE injury.

Listen to Aaron Donald:

“We can’t get to the quarterback,” Aaron Donald said, shaking his head. “He’s back there all day, passing the ball, making plays.”

Fisher and GW and Boras have quite a challenge ahead of them. I dont ‘believe’ in them and i haven’t ‘given up on them’ yet. I’m just kinda…sittin here….waiting….like at the end of the movie “The Thing.”

w
v

October 17, 2016 at 9:14 am #55489

zn
Moderator

wv wrote:

To me, losing Quinn is not just “an injury”.
Its a HUGE injury.

I would say Quinn and Johnson at the same time, but, yeah.

To some that’s “excuse making.” I don’t know why but it is. But then folks differ. In contrast, to some that’s just hardcore frank real honest assessment.

October 17, 2016 at 9:19 am #55490

PA Ram
Participant

Okay, zn…that’s all very fair.

And maybe he is a good coach. I’m certainly not knowledgeable enough to make any kind of legitimate assessment. I can only judge him by results. I can’t get into the nuts and bolts of why the conveyor belt keeps snapping. I just know that it does. If I put a different mechanic on the job but the parts are flawed and it keeps happening, I have to concede there was probably nothing to be done. But if that mechanic can somehow work with the parts to keep it running, maybe he knew something the other guy didn’t.

I have no idea on the day to day stuff.

But everyone can see the results. At some point when you have enough data the statistics must mean something.

How do you know Fisher is a good coach? What has he done that has convinced you of that? I don’t bring this up to argue. I will gladly accept your response.

My response to why he is a bad coach is his record. Nothing more than that.

In 21 years of coaching he has 6 winning seasons. 6. That number is staggering to me. Have there always been reasons for that out of his control?

I can’t imagine another coach in the modern day NFL who could possibly hold a job with that sort of record. Maybe he’s a good coach with lousy luck. If so–I’d rather get a luckier guy.

I believe that you genuinely see Fisher as a good coach–that you aren’t making excuses. And I get that we see it differently. Maybe my evaluation is way too simple. But I can’t get past that number: SIX.

And I’m not saying I’m right–I’m just trying to let you know why I feel that way about him.

I am interested though, in what you see about HIM, that makes you feel he’s a good head coach. What has he done as a coach that makes you feel that way? Again–it’s not to start an argument–I promise. I am just interested.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

October 17, 2016 at 9:43 am #55491

zn
Moderator

But everyone can see the results. At some point when you have enough data the statistics must mean something.

Actually this is where we differ.

I don’t believe a record is a verdict. I mean it is in terms of standings and who gets to the playoffs, but it’s not an explanation.

Different teams can have the same record for different reasons. I am more interested in the reasons.

AH BUT…reasonable people can disagree on those.

Meanwhile, when it comes to THIS coach, Fisher,there’s no such thing as Fisher diehard. I think everyone who defends him would just shrug and accept a coach change. IF that were even in the cards (which I doubt).

But in terms of the details and minutia, you don’t HAVE TO engage with that. Nothing obligates it. So for example I could demonstrate at length, with pie charts and stats, that no team that has to start a #2 caliber qb while ALSO dealing with an extensively damaged OL can do very well.

And you can always say, fine…I don’t care though. I don’t want Fisher anyway.

I did that in 2007 with Linehan. I said, this is as busted up bad injured as an OL can get, and it’s taking Bulger down with it (who among other things had to play with cracked ribs). And you can’t win like that. But I don’t care. I don’t like Linehan anyway.

..

October 17, 2016 at 9:59 am #55492

nittany ram
Moderator

The so-called depth the Rams supposedly have along the d-line is overrated. Donald was being double-teamed the entire game and the other defenders couldn’t even sniff the QB. I think the Rams should invest another early pick in a pass rusher. Quinn and Brochers miss too much time with injuries.

October 17, 2016 at 10:02 am #55493

wv
Participant

This loss has really affected a lot of fans. I think that 3-1 start they had,
had a lot of folks starting to wonder if this could finally be the year they turned the corner,
and then the Buffalo loss, and this Detroit thing — really stung a lot of people. SOSAR. Same Ole Sorry Ass Fisher.

They are mad as hell and they aint gonna take it anymore 🙂

w
v

October 17, 2016 at 10:11 am #55494

zn
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

The so-called depth the Rams supposedly have along the d-line is overrated. Donald was being double-teamed the entire game and the other defenders couldn’t even sniff the QB. I think the Rams should invest another early pick in a pass rusher. Quinn and Brochers miss too much time with injuries.

It’s Sims. He’s not an outside rusher. But then think about it…how many teams are 2 deep at right DE.

But then they HAVE won games without Quinn.

The issue for me is that they apparently can’t do that well without BOTH Quinn and Johnson.

IMO if Johnson plays yesterday they give up a field goal instead of a TD on at least one of those redzone moments, and win 28-27.

October 17, 2016 at 10:15 am #55495

JackPMiller
Participant

wv wrote:

This loss has really affected a lot of fans. I think that 3-1 start they had,
had a lot of folks starting to wonder if this could finally be the year they turned the corner,
and then the Buffalo loss, and this Detroit thing — really stung a lot of people. SOSAR. Same Ole Sorry Ass Fisher.

They are mad as hell and they aint gonna take it anymore

w
v

The teams we went to go 3-1 we were 3-1 against. Same scenario I mean. Fisher seems like he can’t beat other teams. We know he will. His record when here has him winning 7 games as usual. Heck. Fisher’s best season was his first season where it was 7-8-1. Quick was off the line by a couple of inches, on that Amendola bomb against the 49ers. Forget about that. Still, he has not managed to win more than 7 games. At this stage, being Fisher’s 5th year, we should be a Super Bowl contender, not still rebuilding. That is how most look at it.

October 17, 2016 at 11:05 am #55499

PA Ram
Participant

zn wrote:

But everyone can see the results. At some point when you have enough data the statistics must mean something.

Actually this is where we differ.

I don’t believe a record is a verdict. I mean it is in terms of standings and who gets to the playoffs, but it’s not an explanation.

Different teams can have the same record for different reasons. I am more interested in the reasons.

AH BUT…reasonable people can disagree on those.

Meanwhile, when it comes to THIS coach, Fisher,there’s no such thing as Fisher diehard. I think everyone who defends him would just shrug and accept a coach change. IF that were even in the cards (which I doubt).

But in terms of the details and minutia, you don’t HAVE TO engage with that. Nothing obligates it. So for example I could demonstrate at length, with pie charts and stats, that no team that has to start a #2 caliber qb while ALSO dealing with an extensively damaged OL can do very well.

And you can always say, fine…I don’t care though. I don’t want Fisher anyway.

I did that in 2007 with Linehan. I said, this is as busted up bad injured as an OL can get, and it’s taking Bulger down with it (who among other things had to play with cracked ribs). And you can’t win like that. But I don’t care. I don’t like Linehan anyway.

..

Fair enough. Thanks for the response.

You love Fisher and want to marry him. I get it. 🙂

Just kidding. I get it. I do.

I don’t have a great feeling about this team the next few years. They seem to be in a spot where they will have some roster work to do. Quinn is getting hurt quite a bit lately. And certainly the secondary lost some good pieces this year in Jenkins and Mcleod.

It all feels like that scene from “Inception”. “The dream is collapsing”.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

October 17, 2016 at 11:15 am #55501

zn
Moderator

PA Ram wrote:

I don’t have a great feeling about this team the next few years. They seem to be in a spot where they will have some roster work to do. Quinn is getting hurt quite a bit lately. And certainly the secondary lost some good pieces this year in Jenkins and Mcleod.

PFF just did an analysis where they said the Rams have one of the best safety duos in the league.

They need depth at CB because of Johnson.

All teams could use another pass rusher.

Meanwhile, in response to your “the glass isn’t even half empty it;s shattered into a thousand pieces in the middle of an apocalyptic drought” view, I would say you’re missing a lot.

USED TO BE we thought the Rams needed receivers. Now, Cooper and Spruce can’t even get on the field because Quick and Britt, it turns out, are that good. The receiver position has not been this good for years.

They have a high-picked qb with a ton of golden promise and his BACK-UP just had one of the best games by a Rams qb in years.

And yes they could add some defensive depth but in the meanwhile will be better when Johnson is back, which is better than saying they have no one at corner.

And I ain’t just being sun-shiney day-glo kool aid man. That’s all just solid basic real stuff.

….

October 17, 2016 at 2:40 pm #55506

Zooey
Moderator

Well, I’m getting fed up, too. Apart from 99-03, this team has pretty much sucked for 25 years. It has given us a few entertaining games, and memorable performances, but there is no denying that this has been largely a bottom-feeding franchise for over two decades. And it’s just old.

I don’t feel disgusted anymore, or disappointed, or anything.

I believed that they were at a flimsy 3-1. But their 3-3 is just…I dunno. 9ers, Bills, and Lions. That is just 7-9 bullshit.

Had they kept Jenkins, I think they would be 4-2, maybe 5-1. It might be a flimsy 4-2, or 5-1. But I wish they had kept Jenkins.

Basically, I want a see a team that deserves to be in the playoffs. I am just tired of this.

It’s the erratic play. It’s the feeling they just don’t excel at anything except punting. It’s being 2nd or 3rd in penalties every year. It’s the appearance that the other team makes halftime adjustments and the Rams often don’t. It’s being Up for the Seahawks, and Flat for the 49ers. C’mon. It’s just time for a different storyline here.

October 17, 2016 at 4:01 pm #55508

Agamemnon
Participant

I expect to lose interest in the Rams, I did when the Cardinals left. Right now, I am disappointed in some stuff, but not enough to lose interest.

Having you guys around helps.

Agamemnon

October 17, 2016 at 6:05 pm #55510

wv
Participant

Zooey wrote:

Well, I’m getting fed up, too. Apart from 99-03, this team has pretty much sucked for 25 years…

———–

Yeah this was a big loss for a lot of fans. For various reasons this one really had
an impact on a lot of fans.

….this would NOT be a good time to lay an egg in London. Ya know.

W.Hayes said they ‘played soft’ all over the field Sunday. He said they were not ‘flat’ but they played ‘soft’. I would think that probly means they are gonna come out chippy and furious against NYG. For better or worse, i think it will be a chippy, ugly, physical War.
They are NOT gonna be ‘soft’ next week. …i look for Sims to get tossed out early 🙂

w
v

October 17, 2016 at 7:02 pm #55516

Zooey
Moderator

wv wrote:

Zooey wrote:

Well, I’m getting fed up, too. Apart from 99-03, this team has pretty much sucked for 25 years…

———–

Yeah this was a big loss for a lot of fans. For various reasons this one really had
an impact on a lot of fans.

….this would NOT be a good time to lay an egg in London. Ya know.

W.Hayes said they ‘played soft’ all over the field Sunday. He said they were not ‘flat’ but they played ‘soft’. I would think that probly means they are gonna come out chippy and furious against NYG. For better or worse, i think it will be a chippy, ugly, physical War.
They are NOT gonna be ‘soft’ next week. …i look for Sims to get tossed out early
w
v

It wasn’t that Big of a loss to me. As in “emotionally.” I guess.

I was far more disgusted by the San Francisco loss.

This was a SOSAR loss.

October 17, 2016 at 9:00 pm #55531

InvaderRam
Moderator

Zooey wrote:

Well, I’m getting fed up, too. Apart from 99-03, this team has pretty much sucked for 25 years. It has given us a few entertaining games, and memorable performances, but there is no denying that this has been largely a bottom-feeding franchise for over two decades. And it’s just old.

I don’t feel disgusted anymore, or disappointed, or anything.

I believed that they were at a flimsy 3-1. But their 3-3 is just…I dunno. 9ers, Bills, and Lions. That is just 7-9 bullshit.

Had they kept Jenkins, I think they would be 4-2, maybe 5-1. It might be a flimsy 4-2, or 5-1. But I wish they had kept Jenkins.

Basically, I want a see a team that deserves to be in the playoffs. I am just tired of this.

It’s the erratic play. It’s the feeling they just don’t excel at anything except punting. It’s being 2nd or 3rd in penalties every year. It’s the appearance that the other team makes halftime adjustments and the Rams often don’t. It’s being Up for the Seahawks, and Flat for the 49ers. C’mon. It’s just time for a different storyline here.

this.

also. now while i am a supportive of goff. and i don’t want this to come off as me bashing goff cuz i like him as a player.

but i was in favor of staying put. i liked prescott and to a lesser extent lynch. i was also in favor of getting a guy like hunter henry later in the draft.

i dunno. i woulda been much more comfortable with this scenario and letting prescott learn behind keenum and having more picks and talent.

this could all still work out but our defense looks vulnerable. i really worry about quinn’s long term health.

i’m not depressed. just resigned i think to another decade of mediocrity.

October 18, 2016 at 3:17 am #55538

Herzog
Participant

I really honestly believe there are inherent flaws in the way Fisher builds a team.

They aren’t “forced” to start a back-up… they are starting a back-up bc of events that Fisher put in place. Everything that is happening is happening because of decisions Fisher made.

This is year 5. It’s ALL on him. The qb situation, the lack of depth on defense, the offensive line situation….all of it.

Roberson was a player. Why did we sign sensabaugh and release Roberson? We HAD depth… what happened to it

He’s not having to deal with Spags players anymore. This is year 5… YEAR 5.

October 18, 2016 at 3:38 am #55539

zn
Moderator

Herzog wrote:

. the lack of depth on defense,

I understand your frustrations but just want to focus on one thing. I can’t think of many defenses that could lose a top-flight DE like Quinn and a top-flight CB like Johnson and have meaningful depth behind those players.

That would suggest, for example, that it’s possible to imagine a team that has TWO good, productive pass-rushing right defensive ends. Most teams, if they have one, are lucky to have that one.

To be honest with you, I can’t remember a single example of a team that was that deep on defense.

For example if the 2001 defense lost Little (who didn’t play on the right but you get my point), who was behind him that would have been provided even a fraction of the same production?

Go through the list of great 4/3 DEs…who was behind Dent? Haley? Freeney? Those guys are rare.

And of course there just aren’t that many top corners of Tru’s caliber…and he was playing lights out before getting hurt.

If you think of all the top corners on the best defenses over the years, if that corner went down, was he replaced by someone as good? Usually not, right?

If the 2001 defense lost both Aeneas and Little, would it be as good?

October 18, 2016 at 1:50 pm #55548

Zooey
Moderator

zn wrote:

I understand your frustrations but just want to focus on one thing. I can’t think of many defenses that could lose a top-flight DE like Quinn and a top-flight CB like Johnson and have meaningful depth behind those players.

Consensus before the season was our DL depth was fabulous. And only a year or two ago, we thought we had an embarrassment of riches in the secondary. More players than positions with Roberson, Bryant, Robertson etc. All promising young players.

And here we are.

And, yes, Quinn and Johnson are blue chip players, and their loss hurts. But…man. How many times have we watched the Rams take on a backup QB, and various injury replacements, and the mismatch we expect just never happens. In fact, some of these backups have a knack for having career days against the Rams.

I think this season is just the point at which a lot of Rams fans are going to say…”Enough. Just win. Win! No more 7-9 bullshit.”
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