Why is Immigration such a big issue now?

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  • #102507
    wv
    Participant

    Seems like Immigration kinda exploded onto the political scene with the Trump vs Hillary election. Yes? No?
    I dont remember it being this big a story with the MSM and joe and jane voter, until fairly recently. I mean, i know its always been big in Calif and Texas, but now its a HUGE issue even here in WV.

    Why is that? How did it go from being a regional story to a huge national issue?

    What happened?

    ITs such a great story for the Repugnants, of course. Its a fear story. They do fear the best. It plugs into our reptile-brains. When i tap into my reptile brain, i want to build walls and keep the hordes away. I have to climb out of my reptile brain to find a softer place so i can find a compassionate stance on that issue. Takes work. Dems are fucked on that issue.

    w
    v

    #102509
    zn
    Moderator

    How did it go from being a regional story to a huge national issue?

    What happened?

    This article is a year old but it still has value.

    How Immigration Became So Controversial
    Does the hot-button issue of 2018 really split the country? Or just the Republican Party?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/why-immigration-divides/552125/

    Immigration seems to be the most prominent wedge issue in America. Senate Republicans and Democrats shut down the federal government over the treatment of immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children, also known as Dreamers. In his State of the Union address on Tuesday, President Donald Trump referred to U.S. immigration law as a “broken” system; one party clapped, the other scowled. This polarized reaction reflects a widening divide among voters, as Democrats are now twice as likely as Republicans to say immigrants strengthen the country.

    These stories and others might make it seem like most Americans are anxious about the deleterious effects of immigration on America’s economy and culture. But along several dimensions, immigration has never been more popular in the history of public polling:

    The share of Americans calling for lower levels of immigration has fallen from a high of 65 percent in the mid-1990s to just 35 percent, near its record low.

    A 2017 Gallup poll found that fears that immigrants bring crime, take jobs from native-born families, or damage the budget and overall economy are all at all-time lows.

    In the same poll, the percentage of Americans saying immigrants “mostly help” the economy reached its highest point since Gallup began asking the question in 1993.

    A Pew Research poll asking if immigrants “strengthen [the] country with their hard work and talents” similarly found affirmative responses at an all-time high.

    But immigration is not a monolithic issue; there is no one immigration question. There are more like three: How should the United States treat illegal immigrants, especially those brought to the country as children? Should overall immigration levels be reduced, increased, or neither? And how should the U.S. prioritize the various groups—refugees, family members, economic migrants, and skilled workers among them—seeking entry to the country? It’s possible that most voters don’t disentangle the issues this specifically, and don’t think too much about the answers to each question. After all, immigration ranks quite low on Americans’ policy priorities—it’s behind the deficit and tied with the influence of lobbyists—which makes responses shift along with the positions of presidential candidates, political rhetoric, or polling language. (You might, for example, get very different answers to questions emphasizing “law and order” versus the general value of “diversity.”)

    On the most important immigration question—the “levels” question—it doesn’t seem quite right to say the issue of immigration divides America. It more clearly divides Republicans—both from the rest of the country, and from one another. Immigration isolates a nativist faction of the right in a country that is, overall, growing more tolerant of diversity. January’s government shutdown is a perfect example. Nearly 90 percent of Americans favor legal protections for Dreamers, but the GOP’s refusal to extend those protections outside of a larger deal led to the shutdown of the federal government, anyway.

    What’s more, immigration pits Republicans against Republicans. On one side are the hard-line restrictionists, like White House aide Stephen Miller and—depending on the time and day—Donald Trump. This group favors a wall, rising arrests and deportations for undocumented workers, and a permanent cut in the number of immigrants that can enter the U.S., particularly (if you heed the president’s scatological commentary) from Latino or majority-black countries. Nativism runs deep among Trump’s most ardent supporters. Three-quarters of them say “building the wall” should be the highest priority of his presidency, while a majority of Americans say it shouldn’t be a priority at all.

    But there is another side of the party, epitomized by its reliably pro-immigration donor class. In 2016, the Chamber of Commerce, a bastion of Reaganite conservatism, released a report concluding that immigrants “significantly benefit the U.S. economy by creating new jobs and complementing the skills of the U.S. native workforce.” The Koch Brothers and their influential political group Americans For Prosperity loudly decried Trump’s immigration plans back in 2015. It wasn’t so long ago that this wing seemed to be the future of the party. The GOP’s “post-mortem” report on the 2012 election stated plainly, “We must embrace and champion comprehensive immigration reform,” and the presidential candidates with the most donor support in the 2016 election were Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, both of whom have supported high levels of immigration with something like amnesty for undocumented workers.

    This tension within the Republican Party could be summarized as “ICE versus Inc.” In early January, federal agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, raided nearly 100 7-Eleven stores across the country and made almost two dozen arrests. Along with the wall, these agent arrests, up more than 40 percent under Trump, are the clearest manifestation of the administration’s crackdown on illegal immigration. But the Koch brothers, motivated by an interest in expanding the GOP coalition and providing corporations with cheap labor, have funded initiatives to attract Latino votes by helping undocumented workers with tax preparation, driver’s tests, and doctor’s visits. The modern GOP is an awkward political arrangement, in which pro-immigration corporate libertarians are subsidizing a virulent anti-immigrant movement.

    * * *

    The immigration issue was never easy. But it hasn’t always been this confusing.

    For much of the 1990s, the two parties were essentially in lockstep on the issue of immigration. In 2005, Democratic and Republican voters were 5 percentage points apart in their favorability toward immigrants, according to Pew Research Center. But in the last 13 years, attitudes toward immigrants have forked dramatically between the two parties. Today, eight in 10 Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters say immigrants strengthen the country, twice the share of Republicans.

    What happened in the mid-2000s to cleave the bipartisan consensus? In 2006, President George W. Bush pushed a comprehensive immigration-reform bill that failed in Congress. While the Senate draft created a path to legalize unauthorized immigrants, the House legislation emphasized border security and punishment for undocumented workers and their employers. The latter bill inspired a round of pro-naturalization protests across the country, which, in turn, caused a backlash among conservative voters. By the end of this maelstrom of bills and backlashes, comprehensive reform had failed and the parties had sharply split on the immigration issue. The latter is evident in the polling, which shows 2006 as the year when Democrats and Republicans split dramatically.

    This split intensified under Obama, the 2016 presidential campaign, and Donald Trump’s presidency. After the Great Recession, white men without a college degree sharply soured on America’s future, and in polls conducted by Kellyanne Conway’s firm in 2014, many explicitly blamed illegal immigration for their economic plight, despite uneven evidence. Donald Trump harnessed this resentment of less educated whites from the start, using his first speech as a presidential candidate to accuse illegal immigrants of importing crime, drugs, and sexual assault.

    But the above graph shows, it’s also the case that the Democratic Party has become much more accepting of immigrants—some might say even radically accepting, compared with recent history. There are several possible reasons. As the Hispanic population grew in the 2000s, labor unions that once feared the effect of cheap labor on their bargaining power came to see the naturalization of undocumented workers as a necessary step forward for labor relations. Meanwhile, as Hispanics became the fastest-growing ethnicity within the Democratic Party, Hispanic leaders lobbied for more pro-immigrant policies. Finally, as The Atlantic’s Peter Beinart has written, left-leaning tech leaders have pushed for expanding H-1B visas to let more high-skilled immigrants into the economy.

    It’s possible that Democratic unity on immigration is just a proxy for unified opposition to Trump and that, in power, the party would face similar internecine fights over how to legislate on immigration. But this would be unfortunate, because the case for high levels of immigration remains quite strong.

    The most common economic arguments against immigrants, particularly those that are low-skilled workers, are two-fold. First, there is the concern that new arrivals pull down wages for the low-income Americans with whom they compete. The evidence here is mixed and controversial, but a 2008 meta-analysis of more than 100 papers studying the effect of immigration on native-born wage growth characterized the impact on wages as “very small” and “more than half of the time statistically insignificant.” Second, there is a concern that immigrants are a drain on federal resources. It’s true that the first generation of low-skilled adults can receive more in health care, income support, and retirement benefits than they pay in taxes. But as their children grow up, find jobs, and pay taxes themselves, most immigrant families wind up being net contributors to the government over their decades-long residence in the U.S., according to a 2016 report from the National Academy of Sciences.

    Too often lost in this discussion of wage and budget effect is the question of whether a rich country has a moral obligation to help poor families—particularly those in political distress—by admitting them as legal immigrants. The single most unambiguous, most uncontroversial fact about immigration is that it raises the living standards of poorer foreign-born workers. It is, essentially, the world’s most effective foreign-aid program on a per capita basis. But, more than mere charity, high levels of immigration seem to materially benefit the United States. America’s immigrant population is in many ways a model of the future of the country—more entrepreneurial, more likely to move toward opportunity, and all together more dynamic. To regard this community as something the United States should banish from the body politic is to mistake a vital organ for a cancer.

    I have written that the current demographic and political makeup of the U.S. electorate (and other countries) makes it vulnerable to a race-baiting populist like Donald Trump, who can marshal the latent tribalism of a fading white majority to harass immigrants. But the United States’ demographic picture is changing quickly. The generation of Americans under 30 are the most diverse cohort in the U.S., the most fervently against the construction of any wall, and the most accepting of immigrants, even those that don’t speak fluent English.

    The majority of children born in 2015 were non-white. That means even if the GOP hardliners managed to permanently end immigration this weekend, the United States’ white majority would decline into one of many non-majority pluralities within a few decades, anyway. No matter whether the future of the Republican Party is Stephen Miller or the Koch Brothers, multiracial nationalism is the future of the United States. No other nation is on the way. There is no other future to unite around.

    #102510
    wv
    Participant

    Well I dunno. A lot of that made no sense to me. (I’m not a fan of Mr Globalization, Thompson, the Atlantic writer, btw, fwiw)

    I mean he sez, “The share of Americans calling for lower levels of immigration has fallen from a high of 65 percent in the mid-1990s to just 35 percent, near its record low.” But so much depends on the way things are asked. Like when i watch Fox news they are not talking about ‘immigration’ — they talk about ILLEGAL immigration. So, if you ask americans about “Illegal immigration” I think you’d get a different percentage.

    And no matter what the actual percentage is, its hard for me to swallow any argument that Immigration or Illegal-Immigration is not a huge issue nowadays. Every time i watch the MSM thats what they are talking about, as opposed to say Climate Change, etc.

    Seems to me, its a huge issue. I wonder how it came to be that way. I mean when an issue hits the State of West Virginia, all the way from Calif/Texas — its a huge issue.

    Seems like itz the new Rightwing-big-fear-issue. Right there with ‘terrorism’ and ‘crime’.

    w
    v

    #102511
    Billy_T
    Participant

    WV,

    IMO, you pretty much answered your own questions. But I’ll throw in my own two cents.

    It’s a combination of true believers and those who exploit true believers. True believers see those “hordes” as a direct threat for a host of reasons, most of which they can’t really pinpoint or articulate. Economic, cultural, a sense of the “rightful race” being dominant and how those “hordes” from the South threaten all of this. That’s always been exploited by fascists and reactionaries in general . . . and, by a certain portion of the oligarchy, which sees immigrants as a great scapegoat and distraction from their own endless screwing over of the very people feeling “threatened.

    Ironically, part of the oligarchy really wants an endless stream of immigrants. Of course, not for noble reasons. But as cheap, exploitable labor. So they do battle with the part that loves manufactured scapegoats and distractions from the oligarchy itself.

    Trump is one more demagogue in a long line of demagogues, gifted at whipping up fear and hatred of “the Other,” for his own political gain . . . and as shield for his oligarchic buddies.

    #102512
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I also think none of this “works” if governments do the right thing for citizens in the first place. The table isn’t set for this kind of revolt and scapegoating of the Other, if there is a vigorous, effective program to fight inequality and actually improve the lives of everyone.

    It only works when moderates, centrists and conservatives are in power, because they’ll inevitably do just enough to prevent actual, full-scale revolutions, so they protect their own masters, the donor class, the super-rich, etc. etc.

    In short, a truly “leftist” program for the citizenry is going to take oxygen away from far-right attempts to stoke hatred against immigrants, etc. It’s not going to catch fire when the needs of every citizen are being met (or close to that), and their aspirations seem within their grasp.

    Only when they aren’t.

    #102513
    Billy_T
    Participant

    A caveat to the comments above: Europe has seen more than a few leftists who ended up governing pretty much as conservatives. So I’m not talking about in name only. I mean actual leftist governance, not caving into the powers that be, as Syriza did.

    Actual, aggressive, effective, non-compromised programs to make life better for everyone, with no one left behind. Not “progressive” in name only, etc.

    IMO, that’s the best way to combat the reptile brain — currently, with systems as they exist right now.

    #102515
    wv
    Participant

    A caveat to the comments above: Europe has seen more than a few leftists who ended up governing pretty much as conservatives. So I’m not talking about in name only. I mean actual leftist governance, not caving into the powers that be, as Syriza did.

    Actual, aggressive, effective, non-compromised programs to make life better for everyone, with no one left behind. Not “progressive” in name only, etc.

    IMO, that’s the best way to combat the reptile brain — currently, with systems as they exist right now.

    ================

    I’m very ‘weak’ on this issue. I dont read about it, i dont know anything about it, really.

    So, i just kinda try to think of whats “fair” in a first-grade sorta way. What would be a ‘fair’ immigration policy? And i just dont know. One of the big complicating factors for me iz — i dont know what to do with the whole meta-idea of “a National State”. I mean just the whole idea of having a ‘nation’ is problematic for me. Ya know. Borders and all. Its all an invention. Can anything be ‘fair’ after you’ve created a nation-state? So, i cant even get past that 🙂

    I just dont know how to even ‘think’ about a ‘fair policy’ involving the question of who gets into the country and who has to starve/die/be tortured etc.

    Its kinda like if we were in a bomb-shelter after an atom bomb went off — and people were pounding at the door….well what would be ‘fair’? Who gets in?

    Ah well. I got nuthin.

    All i know is the Dems dont have a nice catch-phrase. As per usual. And the Reps do have a nice catch phrase. As per usual: Build a Wall. (translation – Be Safe)

    w
    v

    #102516
    Billy_T
    Participant

    So, i just kinda try to think of whats “fair” in a first-grade sorta way. What would be a ‘fair’ immigration policy? And i just dont know. One of the big complicating factors for me iz — i dont know what to do with the whole meta-idea of “a National State”. I mean just the whole idea of having a ‘nation’ is problematic for me. Ya know. Borders and all. Its all an invention. Can anything be ‘fair’ after you’ve created a nation-state? So, i cant even get past that 🙂

    I just dont know how to even ‘think’ about a ‘fair policy’ involving the question of who gets into the country and who has to starve/die/be tortured etc.

    Its kinda like if we were in a bomb-shelter after an atom bomb went off — and people were pounding at the door….well what would be ‘fair’? Who gets in?

    Really good metaphors for this, WV. The bomb shelter, etc.

    And the just released IG report puts this into focus. Appalling, disgraceful conditions on the border. AOC is right to call them concentration camps:

    https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/07/01/us/01reuters-usa-immigration-conditions.html

    As for borders, nation-states, etc. I think we both see the US as an empire. So it gained its borders via massive bloodshed, including genocide of native peoples, endless breaking of treaties, and on and on. Just finished David Treuer’s recent history, The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee, and it broke my heart all over again. Any history of empire is going to make calls to “border security” look absurd, given what came before.

    Also reminds me of Yuval Harari’s book, Sapiens, which was like a Rosetta Stone for me in a sense.

    https://www.ynharari.com/book/sapiens/

    He makes the excellent point that these things are fictions . . . nation-states, religions, capitalism, money, etc. We humans have perhaps a unique ability to create fictions and coalesce around them. Harari’s theory is that this is how we survived as a species, because it enabled larger groups to form and pursue newly “common” objectives.

    #102517
    Billy_T
    Participant

    So, basically, borders are arbitrary inventions, primarily based on military and/or economic conquest. Dying to defend them is pure insanity, IMO. Keeping impoverished people out is insanity. Keeping out people fleeing from the worst kinds of oppression is insanity.

    But how to make that clear to the majority of Americans completely eludes me.

    I’m betting you are far better at communicating this than I am. So if we’re both lost on this . . . . sheesh.

    #102518
    wv
    Participant

    But how to make that clear to the majority of Americans completely eludes me.

    I’m betting you are far better at communicating this than I am. So if we’re both lost on this . . . . sheesh.

    ========================

    Well, i no longer have any ‘desire’ to communicate with them, though 🙂 The system has done poked out the people’s eyes. Or poked out their brains, is more like it.

    Anyway, there’s these big meta-issues like “The Nation-State” which we agree on. But history has run its course and we are stuck with what we are stuck-with. So, we must settle for ‘tinkering’ with the Corporate-Imperialist-Beast. Tinkering policies. With that in mind, and leaving aside the grand unfairness of the Nation-State….what would be a decent principle for immigration policy? Who should ‘get in’ ?

    I have no fucking idea.

    How bout…Ram Fans. No Viking fans allowed.

    w
    v

    #102519
    Billy_T
    Participant

    But how to make that clear to the majority of Americans completely eludes me.

    I’m betting you are far better at communicating this than I am. So if we’re both lost on this . . . . sheesh.

    ========================

    Well, i no longer have any ‘desire’ to communicate with them, though 🙂 The system has done poked out the people’s eyes. Or poked out their brains, is more like it.

    Anyway, there’s these big meta-issues like “The Nation-State” which we agree on. But history has run its course and we are stuck with what we are stuck-with. So, we must settle for ‘tinkering’ with the Corporate-Imperialist-Beast. Tinkering policies. With that in mind, and leaving aside the grand unfairness of the Nation-State….what would be a decent principle for immigration policy? Who should ‘get in’ ?

    I have no fucking idea.

    How bout…Ram Fans. No Viking fans allowed.

    w
    v

    I like your solution. I guess we were both traumatized by Joe Kapp, Carl Eller and Bud Grant, right? So it’s only fair!!

    As for the folks who should be let in. If the issue is changing the minds of those who oppose immigration from the right, a quota limited to Norwegians would likely do it. Outside of that, set some crazy high bar for “skills” and “education,” which would eventually pizz off the same people once they find out how many “brown and black” people have those things. Cuz they probably think they don’t. So, again, I don’t know.

    It used to be that advocates for “growth” could make the case, even to hard-core righties, that immigrants were absolutely necessary for that growth — which happens to be the truth. But in the age of demagogic victories, that doesn’t seem to work any longer. Trump seems to have them convinced that “growth” can magically occur without a growing population, which is all but impossible. Tax cuts and deregulation can provide temporary sugar highs, but they don’t last. “Growth” can’t be sustained by such tricks. A growing population is really the only way to sustain economic growth . . . which, of course, leads to other massive problems (primarily environmental). Another story altogether.

    Boiled down? Probably a really tough quota, with seriously tough standards on skills and education. That might do it. But I think the folks who are against immigration have moved beyond tinkering. All too many are calling for an end to “legal” immigration, period, not to mention what they see as illegal.

    #102520
    Billy_T
    Participant

    To piggy-back on my last post:

    We’re really at the point now that it makes no sense to try to convince the “other side.” It’s all about maximizing the moment of power we get, cuz it’s likely going to be short.

    As in, kinda like you’re saying. Fuck the other side. When the side closest to our own philosophy gains power, we need to make sure they maximize their time at the plate and do the right thing. Swing for the fences. Don’t even try to compromise or cajole or coddle or appease the other team. Max out on opening up immigration and asylum, and spend all their time on making the case to Americans likely to agree in the first place. It’s just a waste of time at this point to try to convince people dead set against more brown and black people coming here . . . Nothing is really going to appeal to them short of ending all of it.

    IMNSHO.

    #102521
    zn
    Moderator

    Well I dunno. A lot of that made no sense to me. (I’m not a fan of Mr Globalization, Thompson, the Atlantic writer, btw, fwiw)

    I mean he sez, “The share of Americans calling for lower levels of immigration has fallen from a high of 65 percent in the mid-1990s to just 35 percent, near its record low.” But so much depends on the way things are asked. Like when i watch Fox news they are not talking about ‘immigration’ — they talk about ILLEGAL immigration. So, if you ask americans about “Illegal immigration” I think you’d get a different percentage.

    And no matter what the actual percentage is, its hard for me to swallow any argument that Immigration or Illegal-Immigration is not a huge issue nowadays. Every time i watch the MSM thats what they are talking about, as opposed to say Climate Change, etc.

    Seems to me, its a huge issue. I wonder how it came to be that way. I mean when an issue hits the State of West Virginia, all the way from Calif/Texas — its a huge issue.

    Seems like itz the new Rightwing-big-fear-issue. Right there with ‘terrorism’ and ‘crime’.

    w
    v

    Well he does throw in a lot of nuance etc. and you have to wade through that.

    But the central point in terms of how things are now is this:

    After the Great Recession, white men without a college degree sharply soured on America’s future, and in polls conducted by Kellyanne Conway’s firm in 2014, many explicitly blamed illegal immigration for their economic plight, despite uneven evidence. Donald Trump harnessed this resentment of less educated whites from the start, using his first speech as a presidential candidate to accuse illegal immigrants of importing crime, drugs, and sexual assault.

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