Why i hate Colin Cowherd

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  • #154995
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    OK, i often find Cowherd’s thoughts on football interesting. When he sticks to the actual game analysis. I dont always agree with him, but sure, he’s a smart guy.

    But here is what i cant stand about him. (He reminds me a bit of Bill Maher in this aspect. And he mentions Maher in this vid) He has completely internalized pro-corporate values. He thinks of that as ‘big picture’ thinking. Here, he talks about how great it is that baseball is becoming more and more unequal.

    I would like to strangle him.

    Starts at about the seven minute mark, I think

    #154996
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    a world series that went 4 games to 1 is not good.

    LAD outscored the Mets in their playoff series 46-26….. and that’s with the Mets scoring 12 runs in one of those games….

    Those series sucked.

    Baseball needs a cap and parity…. folks don’t give a shit about watching the Globetrotters vs the Washington Generals… that’s what baseball will become.

    #155066
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Baseball is more equal than football is, if you’re judging by outcomes, rather than team spending.

    The NFL has a salary cap. And it doesn’t have parity.

    In the past 14 seasons, the Chiefs and Patriots have combined for 15 appearances in the AFC Championship game. The Chiefs are playing in their 5th Super Bowl in a 6-year span.

    The last 9 Super Bowls had these teams:

    Chiefs 5
    Patriots 3
    Eagles 3
    Rams 2
    49ers 2
    Bucs 1
    Bengals 1
    Falcons 1

    That’s 8 teams filling 18 slots.

    Baseball has nothing like that disparity. Not even close. And near the top in spending over the past 9 seasons, the Angels, Padres, Mets, Giants, Blue Jays, Braves and Cardinals have made 0 appearances in the World Series. The Yankees, Cubs, Red Sox, Phillies, and Rangers – all in and out of the top 10 spenders over that time span – have 1 appearance each. Tampa, Cleveland, and Arizona, historically low-spending teams, have each made an appearance.

    The Mets, Cubs, Angels, White Sox, Red Sox, Padres, Giants, Phillies, Rangers, and Nationals are all “big market” teams.

    Money makes a difference, but baseball, of all sports, has the highest percentage of underdogs getting to the top.

    I’m not arguing for or against salary caps. I just have my doubts that caps help the fans. In theory, they were supposed to. But you can spread out the data and take a look for yourselves. I think they help the owners myself.

    #155067
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Money makes a difference, but baseball, of all sports, has the highest percentage of underdogs getting to the top.

    I think the NFL it works this way. Parity is real. But with parity throughout the league, a singular advantage puts you above the parity-driven norm. The clearest and most absolute advantage goes to teams that combine a great head coach, a great qb, and a very solid defense. Which btw would describe the Patz and KC.

    That combination is actually hard to get. One of the top 3 or 4 coaches, with one of the top 3 or 4 qbs, with a very solid defense.

    With parity in the NFL, what does change year to year is not the super bowl, it’s the playoffs. In the last 3 years 22 teams have made the postseason. 2/3rds of the league in 3 years. If you go back 5 years it’s 29 teams. All but 3.

    #155069
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Baseball is more equal than football is, if you’re judging by outcomes, rather than team spending.
    .

    Well, the last few times i looked into this, I didnt just look at the World Series. I looked at who made the playoffs and who didnt. So, at some point I will look at that again.

    But I’m surprised you dont think the salary cap is an absolute good. Look at the Yankees salary and look at the Pirates. You telling me, the Pirates can compete with the Yankees year in and year out? With that much disparity?

    w
    v

    #155070
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I think the NFL it works this way. Parity is real. But with parity throughout the league, a singular advantage puts you above the parity-driven norm. The clearest and most absolute advantage goes to teams that combine a great head coach, a great qb, and a very solid defense. Which btw would describe the Patz and KC.

    That combination is actually hard to get. One of the top 3 or 4 coaches, with one of the top 3 or 4 qbs, with a very solid defense.

    With parity in the NFL, what does change year to year is not the super bowl, it’s the playoffs. In the last 3 years 22 teams have made the postseason. 2/3rds of the league in 3 years. If you go back 5 years it’s 29 teams. All but 3.

    The longest playoff drought in MLB belongs to the Angels (a Los Angeles team) at 10 years. The NY Jets have a 14-year drought going right now.

    I will also point out that the NFL always sent a higher percentage of their teams into the playoffs. Baseball has only recently begun to expand the pool of teams to make the postseason, and I think in the future, baseball fans won’t feel as “locked out” as they do right now. And even given the disparity between the % of teams that make the postseason in their respective leagues, baseball still stacks up favorably to the NFL.

    In the past 3 years, 20/30 baseball teams have played in the postseason: 2/3rds. Same as the NFL. If you go back 5 years, it’s 27 teams. All but 3.

    That’s certainly comparable. In fact, it’s damn near identical. And, again, baseball shares the World Series trophy more widely than the NFL shares the Lombardi.

    #155071
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    But I’m surprised you dont think the salary cap is an absolute good. Look at the Yankees salary and look at the Pirates. You telling me, the Pirates can compete with the Yankees year in and year out? With that much disparity?

    I don’t know what’s going on with the Pirates. I have no idea who owns them, or what they’re doing. I have no idea what their revenue looks like. I don’t know how big Pittsburgh is. What I do know is that they are consistently near the bottom in payroll, and their payroll is so low, it makes me think that their owner(s) just decided to sit out being competitive, and let the equity build up in the team while doing nothing. I will add that Cleveland, Tampa Bay, and Baltimore are also consistently low in payroll – in the same neck of the woods as the Pirates – but all three of those teams have produced more competitive teams than Pittsburg has. Cleveland and Tampa both played in the WS recently.

    But to answer your question: no, I don’t think the Pirates can compete with the Yankees year in and year out. But, otoh, the Yankees have won once (2009) this millennium, the same number of times as the Marlins and Diamondbacks. And baseball strikes me as fundamentally different from the other major sports. It is both a marathon – by far the longest season – and a sprint: 1 game wild card. Best of 5 (used to be Best of 3). Best of 7. You have to endure a very long season, and then play your best in a sprint at the finish. In some ways it is less of a team sport than the other big three are. It’s all a bunch of 1-on-1s. Pitcher/batter, obviously, but also the in-play ball is defensed by one guy, basically. All of this makes baseball more… precarious, I think. I think baseball is the game that is LEAST likely to be won by the best team in the regular season.

    When the Giants won 3 World Series in a 5-year span a few years ago, they played a total of 10 playoff series. They were the underdog in 9 of those 10 series, being favored only in a 1-game playoff one of those years. But they got hot at the right time, and they won 3 WS when they – statistically – shouldn’t have won any of them. They were the worst, or next-to-worst, team in the playoffs all three times. On paper. After 6 months of games. That shit is just pretty rare in the other sports. It happens, but in baseball, it happens more frequently than in other sports. You have to get into the playoffs, and then if your pitching staff has more juice left in their arms than other teams, you’re in the fight.

    The Dodgers – who IMPROVED on paper this off-season – have a 20% chance of winning the WS this year, according to Las Vegas. That, btw, was exactly the same chance as the Chiefs had at the start of this NFL season. And that’s with a massive salary disparity from top to bottom in the league.

    #155072
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    , baseball shares the World Series trophy more widely than the NFL shares the Lombardi.

    Is there an equivalent in baseball to having a top 3 or 4 coach, plus a top 3 or 4 qb, plus a very solid (top 10 or near it) defense? Because what we see in the NFL is that the teams that have those 3 items dominate the postseason.

    They also repeat in the postseason. So for example, after KC had Reid + Mahomes + the Spags defense … and they had all 3 as of 2019 … they won 5 out of 6 conference games and then won 3 out of the 4 super bowls they have played so far.

    My bet is that the MLB teams that repeat the most often year after year in the playoffs are the big money teams.

    #155073
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I don’t know what’s going on with the Pirates. I have no idea who owns them, or what they’re doing. I have no idea what their revenue looks like. I don’t know how big Pittsburgh is. What I do know is that they are consistently near the bottom in payroll, and their payroll is so..

    Well, here is the payroll for 2023.
    ==
    MLB team payrolls in 2023. I have no idea who made the playoffs that year. But in past years, i have looked how the top ten did, versus the bottom ten in payroll. And every year i looked it, the results were purty predictable. There were always exceptions but the general idea held true every year. The bigger payroll teams did significantly better year in year out.

    I mean, do you really think if the 49ers had a payroll of 353 million and the Rams had a payroll of 56 million — year in year out — that the Rams could do as well as the 49ers?

    N.Y. Mets, $353,546,854
    N.Y. Yankees, $276,999,872
    San Diego, $248,995,932
    Philadelphia, $243,009,439
    L.A. Dodgers, $222,717,834
    L.A. Angels, $212,228,096
    Toronto, $ 209,938,983
    Atlanta, $203,077,500
    Texas, $195,869,490
    Houston, $192,667,233
    San Francisco, $187,932,500
    Chicago Cubs, $184,219,250
    Boston, $181,207,484
    Chicago White Sox, $181,158,666
    St. Louis, $175,637,308
    Colorado, $171,108,778
    Minnesota, $153,588,740
    Seattle, $137,119,947
    Detroit, $122,235,500
    Milwaukee, $118,761,987
    Arizona, $116,471,292
    Washington, $ 101,190,153
    Kansas City, $92,468,100
    Miami, $91,700,000
    Cleveland, 89,424,629
    Cincinnati, $83,610,000
    Pittsburgh, $73,277,500
    Tampa Bay, $73,184,811
    Baltimore, $60,722,300
    Oakland, $56,895,000

    #155076
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    They’re something “off” about this discussion. It doesn’t feel like internet discussion. Too rational and fact based, with different interpretations being stated in civil and respectful ways, and the general feel that the discussion itself has value instead of any particular raw outcome.

    So let me fix that.

    Zooey’s irrational hatred of the NFL shows up in his “baseball uber alles” rantings.

    There. Better.

    #155077
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    , baseball shares the World Series trophy more widely than the NFL shares the Lombardi.

    Is there an equivalent in baseball to having a top 3 or 4 coach, plus a top 3 or 4 qb, plus a very solid (top 10 or near it) defense? Because what we see in the NFL is that the teams that have those 3 items dominate the postseason.

    They also repeat in the postseason. So for example, after KC had Reid + Mahomes + the Spags defense … and they had all 3 as of 2019 … they won 5 out of 6 conference games and then won 3 out of the 4 super bowls they have played so far.

    My bet is that the MLB teams that repeat the most often year after year in the playoffs are the big money teams.

    I think what you say is true about coach + QB + Defense. And there is no equivalent in baseball. I was thinking about that yesterday when considering your post. There are some really good managers, sure. The best ones are good tactically – managing substitutions etc. – and in building chemistry in the clubhouse. And defense matters in baseball, especially in the postseason. We saw an example of that this past WS. And because baseball is a series of 1-on-1 matchups, a robbed hit on the one hand, or an inexcusable error on the other can make the difference in a game. I think the closest thing in baseball to a QB is the entire pitching staff. The thing people look for, going into the playoffs, is 3 really solid starters, and a “slam-the-door-shut” closer. Most playoff teams come close to that, but don’t “quite” have that. But baseball being the beast that it is, one team’s pitching staff can have a guy rise up and get hot at just the right time, and there you go. That’s just one of the variables, though, that opens the door wider.

    Looking at the long haul, as I said to wv, yeah – I bet the Yankees get a ticket into the playoffs more often than the Pirates. I just think that that margin is a lot smaller than people think it is. And it’s been 25 years since a team won back-to-back.

    For example, the Yankees, going back to 2001, have been in the Top 3 spenders every single year, with the exception of 2018, when they had the 7th-highest payroll. They spent the most 14 of those years, 2nd-most 7 of those years, and 3rd-most 2 of those years. They have one championship to show for it.

    Here is last year’s salary table. The red arrows denote playoff teams. The blue arrows denote teams that got knocked out in their first round matchup. The Guardians made it to the AL Championship round.

    Here is the payroll ranking for each world series champion since 2001.

    So having a higher payroll helps, but I don’t think it’s as decisive as the common fan thinks it is. I think it’s another ingredient in the mix, like manager, pitching, and defense. But imo, having a strong farm system is more important than payroll size. It’s the equivalent of hitting on Day 3 draft picks. MLB is absolutely littered with high-spending teams that got nothing in return. The Dodgers, meanwhile, have had one of the most productive farm systems in the league. Good player development.

    #155078
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Remember for me the issues was making the post-season. Not being the champion. There is no formula in baseball like the “qb + coach + defense” one we talked about, so in football the “hope” parity brings is making the playoffs.

    On money teams in baseball–do the top 10 money teams make the post season more than the others?

    Well I looked.

    Of the teams that made the playoffs 3 or more times from 2020 to 2024, 5 are in the top 10 in terms of payroll (Mets, Yankees, Phil, Dodgers, Atros, and Braves). So that’s 50% of them.

    2 are in the middle 11-20 (St.Louis and Milwaukee).

    2 are in the bottom 21-30 (Tampa and White Sox).

    Counting the bottom 20, 11-30, that 4 teams is 20% of them.

    Of the top 10 teams, only 1–Texas–has made it just once, and one didn’t make it at all. 3 made it twice. So that’s 80% that made it at least twice.

    Of the bottom 20 teams from 11-30, 4 made it just twice, 7 made it just once, and 5 never made it. So that’s 40% that made it at least twice.

    #155087
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    well if you look at zooey’s chart of world series champs, theres only ONE that is from the bottom tier. that weird florida marlins team, that sold off all its players the next year

    w
    v

    #155088
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Is there an equivalent in baseball to having a top 3 or 4 coach, plus a top 3 or 4 qb, plus a very solid (top 10 or near it) defense?

    Or!

    Have a decent qb, decent head coach, top defensive coordinator, with both a dominating OL and DL.

    That’s why the late 70s Rams won so many super bowls.

    So let me revise the formula. Have a decent qb, decent head coach, top defensive coordinator, with both a dominating OL and DL…and wear green.

    #155090
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    well if you look at zooey’s chart of world series champs, theres only ONE that is from the bottom tier. that weird florida marlins team, that sold off all its players the next year

    w
    v

    wv’s chief complaint is that the Pirates have no money. Pirate’s lack of money, and RBs who fumble. His two complaints are that the Pirates have no money and RBs who fumble…and immobile QBs…. His *three* complaints are that the Pirates have no money, RBs who fumble…and immobile QBs…and a lack of raisin toast…. His four…no… amongst his complaints…are such elements as the Pirates have no money and RBs who fumble…. I’ll come in again.

    #155091
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    wv’s chief complaint is that the Pirates have no money. Pirate’s lack of money, and RBs who fumble. His two complaints are that the Pirates have no money and RBs who fumble…and immobile QBs…. His *three* complaints are that the Pirates have no money, RBs who fumble…and immobile QBs…and a lack of raisin toast…. His four…no… amongst his complaints…are such elements as the Pirates have no money and RBs who fumble…. I’ll come in again.

    Look, this IS a Pirate board. So, i dunno why a Dodger flamer like you, even posts here.

    Oh, and Clemente was no fumbler.

    w
    v

    #155094
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    What is a Peerahtee?

    Isn’t that some kind of German mind-body exercise fad?

    In terms of just baseball, I’ve always followed Manchester United.

    #155099
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Baseball ended for me when the Pirates were forced to trade away Bonds, Bonilla, and Van Slyke because they couldn’t afford to keep them.

    Teams with low payrolls might make the playoffs every year, but thats a case of those teams catching lightning in a bottle. They are one-offs. Outliers. They’ll only remain competitive until their key players’ contracts are up – like the Pirates during their Killer B era.

    The teams with high payrolls (Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Dodgers, etc) may not win it every year, but they have a chance to be competitive every year. They will always be in the mix because they can horde talent.

    Anyone who doesn’t think the payroll disparity puts small market teams at a disadvantage has abandoned the path of wisdom, and should be publicly ridiculed until they weep.

    #155105
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Maybe if you guys wanted the Pirates to be good, you should have built Los Angeles in Pennsylvania.

    But you didn’t think of that, and now you’re crying.

    Well, fiddly-i-doo.

    #155106
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Maybe if you guys wanted the Pirates to be good, you should have built Los Angeles in Pennsylvania.

    But you didn’t think of that, and now you’re crying.

    Well, fiddly-i-doo.

    We tried that, but other than the lack of parking, something just doesn’t look right.

    Did

    #155174
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Btw…the assumption that a salary cap would make baseball more competitive across the league is questionable, imo. It assumes that the reason some teams spend minimally is because they don’t have the revenue to spend more. But there was a study done recently (that Orel Hersheiser mentioned) that found that every team in the league can afford to spend $200,000,000 a year on salaries. According to the source, several teams just don’t do that because they use the baseball team as a piece in the financial portfolio, and use the money in other investments. Basically, they keep the money. So there are a bunch of owners who aren’t really interested in fielding competitive teams when they make better profits by keeping salaries down, and consequently fielding inferior teams.

    A salary cap wouldn’t help teams whose ownership is interested only in cash flow. I think you would find that the same teams would be floating to the top of the cap anyway. Maybe they need a salary floor, too. There should be a window of spending. I think that’s what the NFL does, and maybe the NBA as well. Don’t know about hockey. But it seems to me that you have to make it so there’s no incentive to field a crappy team.

    Because winning comes at a cost. Winning creates stars; stars get paid more. In the NFL, that inevitably leads to roster turnover, and to some extent, that’s true in baseball as well. Now the danger to baseball right now is that the Dodgers just created, pursued, and implemented a plan that is going to both win AND make even more money. And they did that, imo, by deliberately courting the Japanese market. Japan has 140 million people, nearly half the population of the USA. The Dodgers saw an opportunity, and they took it. In the end, they may arguably be underpaying Ohtani. They nearly recovered the value of the entire contract in year one. They sold loads of jerseys in Japan, and they have more Japanese corporate financing than they can find space for right now. Then they signed Yamamoto and Sasaki. They are paving Japan blue. They are going to make Dodgers fans out of a huge chunk of that market. I have no idea how big of a chunk, but if they make 25% of those fans Dodgers fans, and the rest of the league splits the other 75%, the Dodgers are going to be making insane amounts of money. But I think it’s going to be higher than 25%. There are only 11 Japanese players in the league right now, and the only other teams with Japanese players are the Cubs, Padres, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers, and Mariners. The Dodgers have most electrifying collection of those players, just won the World Series, and then added the most coveted Japanese player to their team this offseason. They start the season playing their first two games in Tokyo. In short, they just stuck their straw into a mighty large drink. If you thought the competitive balance was out of whack before – well – I think we’re looking at the beginning of a dynasty.

    Baseball is fickle, though. The Braves in the 90s should have won multiple WS, and they didn’t.

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