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February 27, 2015 at 1:04 am #19171znModerator
Weinke is high on Bradford
By Jim Thomas
No sales pitch was necessary to get new Rams quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke on board with Sam Bradford.
“Love him. Love him,” Weinke replied when asked about the Rams’ presumptive starting QB for 2015. “Historically, I look back at every guy that I’ve evaluated coming out of college.
“A few years ago when Andrew Luck came out they said who would you compare him to? And I said the closest I would see is Sam Bradford.
“And I say that without knowing Sam. I’d never met Sam until this process. Looking at his physical skill set. And then obviously talking to people and understanding his mental capacity and his football IQ, and all those different things.
“Sam by far has had the best pro day out of any guy I’ve ever evaluated from a physical standpoint. And he was coming off an injury at that point in time. So when you look at a guy who’s a pure passer of the football from a physical standpoint, he’s as good as anybody I’ve ever evaluated.”
Keep in mind, Weinke was talking about what he saw in Bradford as an NFL prospect when he turned pro in 2010. Not anything that’s happened in the pros. One more thing: Weinke didn’t begin evaluating college QBs in earnest until the year Bradford came out because that’s the same year Weinke became director of IMG Academy — a training/performance facility in Bradenton, Fla. So it’s not like Weinke is talking about a long period of time.
As part of Weinke’s interview process in St. Louis a couple of weeks ago, Weinke had dinner with Bradford. New Rams offensive coordinator Frank Cignetti also attended.
“I flew in on a Monday, Frank picked me up at the airport, and we went and met Sam for dinner,” Weinke saiid. “We spent about 3 ½ hours together.”
Weinke approached the dinner as more of a getting-to-know-you session, as opposed to him interviewing Bradford or vice versa.
“It was comfortable from the get-go,” Weinke said. “What we shared at that dinner was simply, hey, who are you? Who am I? Can we work together? What would this environment look like if I was the guy in that room coaching you?”
Bradford is the only quarterback currently under contract on the Rams’ offseason roster. So, yes, Weinke’s excited about having the opportunity to work with Bradford in 2015. He also put in an unsolicited plug for last year’s Rams backup, Shaun Hill, who is a pending free agent.
“I see a guy that I would love to have back,” Weinke said. “I don’t make those decisions, but Shaun is a consummate pro, and a guy that I actually played with in San Francisco in 2007.”
Weinke was in the final season of his seven-season career in ’07. Hill was in his fifth season, but had not thrown an NFL regular-season pass until playing in three games and making two starts in ’07 for the 49ers.
The San Francisco quarterbacks coach that year was none other than Cignetti. Weinke wasn’t signed that year until early December. In fact, he was at that year’s Heisman Trophy ceremony in New York when he got the call.
“I had a tuxedo on, and I got a call from Scot McCloughan, the general manager,” Weinke recalled. “He said, ‘(Trent) Dilfer just had a concussion, we need you out here for three weeks.’ I jumped on a plane from New York, went right to San Francisco.”
Even though he was with Cignetti for only a few weeks at the end of that season, they stayed in touch and have maintained a relationship over the years. So knowing Cignetti should help make it a smoother transition for Weinke. And should Hill get re-signed by the Rams, Weinke will have another familiar face in the building at Rams Park.
As for Bradford, he and Weinke already have some common ground. They’ve both won Heisman trophies — Weinke in 2000 and Bradford in 2008 at Oklahoma.
So what did Weinke like about that Bradford pro day in the spring of 2010 that left such a lasting impression?
“The ability to throw the ball with ease,” Weinke said. “And put maximum revolutions on a football and throw with great accuracy. That’s a key, obviously, at this position.
“When you looked at it, he never looked like he was trying to muscle a throw. He never looked like anything was too hard for him. He was able to make all of those throws with ease and great accuracy. And those are the key points.”
Weinke said you can see the veins popping out of the neck of quarterbacks who try to put too much on the ball.
“Because they’re trying to throw the football hard,” he said. “That’s not what we’re going to do. That’s not how we’re going to operate.”
During his dinner with Bradford, Weinke said he talked about the confidence that he would instill in Rams quarterbacks. Echoing comments made by Cignetti two weeks ago about simplifying the playbook and the offense overall, Weinke told Bradford he would simplify the game for him.
“Know where we’re throwing the football, and have some fun with,” Weinke said he told Bradford. “So I think it was refreshing for Sam, maybe not knowing who I was as a person, and how I was gonna coach.
“I think he got a little excited about the fact that my whole goal is to get him to play with confidence. That’s it. Or whoever the quarterbacks is, right?”
February 27, 2015 at 1:40 am #19173znModeratorAdding Chris Weinke important for Rams’ QB pursuits
By Nick Wagoner
EARTH CITY, Mo. — One way or another, the St. Louis Rams are going to add a young quarterback at some point this offseason. With that in mind, coach Jeff Fisher wanted to talk to former NFL quarterback Chris Weinke.
“There’s going to be a time whether its here in two months or three months or whenever that we’re going to have a young quarterback,” Fisher said at last week’s combine. “I don’t think there is anybody better qualified to coach a young quarterback than him.”
So it was that Weinke arrived in Indianapolis as the director of the football program at IMG Academy and left as the Rams quarterbacks coach. In some ways, it’s entirely possible that adding Weinke to the mix might be one of the best moves the Rams will make this offseason.
Although this is Weinke’s first foray into coaching at the NFL level, the type of experience he does have might be more beneficial than if he had been working in the league for the past five years. Working at IMG afforded Weinke the chance to come to St. Louis with perhaps the most diversified portfolio of any quarterbacks coach in the league.
“At the end of the day, I’ve been able to touch a lot of different guys with a lot of different skill sets coming from a lot of different backgrounds,” Weinke said. “You have to adapt and you’ve got to be able to understand the importance of every quarterback as an individual. You may be able to understand something visually or you may have to write it down. I need to know what my quarterbacks can handle. So I will coach every quarterback with certain fundamentals, let them have some flexibility within that but then understand how they learn because that’s the most important thing.”
Along the way, Weinke worked with Carolina’s Cam Newton, who came from a system that asked very little in terms of regurgitation and playing under center. For eight weeks in 2011, while the NFL was in a lockout, Weinke spent his mornings teaching Newton the finer points of taking snaps and basics like how to take a play call and spit it out in a huddle rather than look to the sideline for a number or a signal.
When those sessions were done, Weinke would turn his attention to working with another incoming rookie, Christian Ponder. He helped both essentially install their new offenses while their pro coaches weren’t allowed to even have contact with their rookie quarterbacks.
The list of quarterbacks to work with Weinke also includes Seattle’s Russell Wilson, Minnesota’s Teddy Bridgewater and Miami’s Ryan Tannehill, among others. The detailed Weinke draws on his many years as a quarterback — he’s kept every note and game plan he’s ever taken from Pop Warner to now — to adapt to whatever style of quarterback he’s working with.
The key, according to Weinke, isn’t trying to reinvent the wheel so much as tweak it to become more efficient.
“I think when you look at all the different styles I’ve seen, what i do is not try to create a robot,” Weinke said. “That’s not what I’m trying to do. I want these guys to be able to play with confidence. I’m not going to try to change somebody’s throwing motion. That’s not what I’m in the business of doing. I’m going to take it and maybe tweak it a little so we can maximize whatever the good Lord gave him. So at the end of the day, I always said when you were a kid and picked up a rock and threw it in the lake, that’s your natural throwing motion and you’ve been doing that your whole life. So who am I to think now at 20, 21, 22 years old that I’m going to change that? That’s not a very smart move.”
Instead, Weinke’s focus is on fundamentals, starting with footwork and building from there up.
“It’s hard for a one-legged man to be in a kickboxing fight, right?” Weinke said. “So understand you have got to have balance. How do we throw the football with maximum power from a good platform and be consistent and throw with accuracy? At the end of the day, we all understand that you must throw the football with anticipation in the National Football League.”
In St. Louis, most signs point to Weinke working with Sam Bradford. Bradford is the only quarterback under contract and though his agent Tom Condon is in a serious game of chicken with the Rams at the moment, it still seems likely he’ll be in St. Louis when all is said and done. Weinke and Bradford had dinner before Weinke was hired and Weinke has nothing but good things to say about Bradford.
“Love him,” Weinke said. “I look back and every guy that I’ve evaluated coming out of college, a few years ago when Andrew Luck came out, they said who would you compare him to? And the closest I would see is Sam Bradford.”
But even if Bradford is on board, the likelihood remains that the Rams will spend a relatively high pick on a new quarterback. Before Weinke, it was fair to wonder whether they had the coaching staff in place to take on a project from a spread system like UCLA’s Brett Hundley or Baylor’s Bryce Petty and develop him into a functional NFL quarterback.
With Weinke in place, you’d be hard-pressed to find a quarterback bringing something to the table he hasn’t already seen.
February 27, 2015 at 2:08 am #19178znModeratorThis is just part of an article…namely, quotes from Weinke that did not appear in the Thomas or Wagoner pieces.
from Weinke Ready for New NFL Challenge
…
“I think he’s a natural passer of the football, which you can’t say that about everybody,” Weinke said. “I think his athleticism is better than most guys I saw coming out of college. I think his football IQ is really high. There’s a competitive greatness about the kid. So I think when you couple all those things together, that’s a pretty good product.”
“He wants to be great,” Weinke added. “He’s doing all the little things right. He’s got a plan, which I love, and I think, to me, again, we all understand the game of football, and it’s unfortunate that we have to have injuries, but we do. The more important piece to me is how are you dealing with it. And I think his mindset is great right now.”
As Fisher put it, Weinke has taken a leap of faith in leaving a good situation at IMG to come coach with the Rams. But the QBs coach did his due diligence, and said he’s very excited about the process going forward.
“I think what I found in terms of going through the process here, is that from top to bottom, it’s a solid organization,” Weinke said. “There were some opportunities to go to college and the NFL the last couple years, and I just didn’t feel like it was the right time. And I felt like, for me, it’s really about being in the right place in the right environment with the right people, and this was a perfect fit for me.”
February 27, 2015 at 5:21 am #19180HerzogParticipantI like the part about not re-inventing the wheel. Smart. I am feeling pretty good about Weinke as our QB coach.
February 28, 2015 at 6:33 pm #19262znModeratorNew Rams QB coach Weinke offers unique combination of skill and experience
Luke Thompson
FOX Sports MidwestST. LOUIS — The Rams’ new quarterbacks coach could provide just the right combination of energy and confidence needed to boost a floundering offense.
Chris Weinke offers coach Jeff Fisher and his staff a unique set of skill and experience, one cultivated through a long and winding road that included a six-year detour in minor league baseball. He won a Heisman and national championship as the quarterback at Florida State in 2000, and he already had future plans to coach before the end of a disappointing pro career in 2007.
“The first time I ever took a note playing quarterback in Pop Warner, I have that notebook,” Weinke says. “I have the notebook from every college meeting, every game plan and every note I ever took in the National Football League as a player.”
He took all of that information with him to Bradenton, Florida, where he became the first director of the IMG Football Academy in 2010. But even then, he says joining a staff in the NFL or major college football remained the ultimate goal.
After turning down multiple offers over the last couple years, Weinke found the perfect fit in St. Louis, where he finally arrived to get to work Wednesday afternoon. It wasn’t easy to leave the elite facilities and a top-level high school coaching job in Florida, but Weinke liked everything he saw from the Rams organization.
That started with Fisher, who made it a priority to find a former NFL quarterback for the job. Even though Weinke won just once in 18 games for the Panthers, his experience should be a valuable asset that makes his players more likely to listen.
“I did not have a stellar NFL career and I think I’m the first to admit it, but that’s why I think I’m a good football coach, because I had to learn how to deal with adversity,” Weinke says. “I know what that feels like, OK, and I want to make sure that I instill all those things that I learned throughout that process.”
He also spent three weeks in 2007 in San Francisco learning from 49ers quarterbacks coach Frank Cignetti, the man he now replaces in St. Louis. Cignetti was promoted from Rams QB coach to offensive coordinator earlier this month, which means Weinke and Cignetti will be working together again.
That should create a comfortable and more familiar environment for quarterback Sam Bradford as he tries to come back from injury with his fourth different offensive coordinator in six seasons. Clearly, Fisher has made a point to make the adjustment as easy as possible.
Part of that process included Cignetti and Weinke both sitting down with Bradford prior to Fisher making the two hires official. Weinke says Bradford turned in the best Pro Day performance he’s ever seen, from a physical standpoint, and he’s eager to begin teaching.
“My whole goal is to get my quarterbacks to play fast, not in a hurry,” says Weinke, noting he spent three and a half hours at dinner with Bradford and Cignetti. “I started talking about the confidence I’m going to instill in our quarterbacks and what we’re going to be able to do and accomplish simply because we’re going to simplify the game, know where we’re throwing the football and have some fun with it.”
The Rams also expect to bring in a new quarterback either through free agency or the draft, and Weinke should be uniquely qualified to help make an evaluation. He worked with different kinds of quarterbacks at all levels from youth players to the pros, including Cam Newton, Russell Wilson and Ryan Tannehill.
Weinke says that taught him each quarterback must be treated differently, and he’s not interested in completely overhauling anyone’s mechanics. Instead, his focus will be on making minor tweaks and helping them find the right rhythm and timing within the offense.
He’ll have to do a lot of studying to learn the Rams’ offense and the tendencies of their quarterbacks, although he does have a head start from his work evaluating virtually every pro prospect while he was at IMG. Weinke won’t provide any sort of magic to suddenly elevate this offense from the bottom third of the league to the top, and he’s fully aware of the importance of a strong supporting cast for any quarterback.
But it’s an interesting, outside-the-box hire in a league where most coaches either already have experience at similar positions or are simply moving up from a slightly lower tier. Weinke clearly possesses an innovative approach, and the number of quality quarterbacks who have sought him out for training suggests a high degree of success.
St. Louis will just have to hope it translates to the highest level.
March 2, 2015 at 2:23 am #19334znhaterBlockedI like the part about not re-inventing the wheel. Smart. I am feeling pretty good about Weinke as our QB coach.
If we could just feel pretty good about our QB we would be all set.
March 2, 2015 at 12:28 pm #19340rflParticipantWeinke says that taught him each quarterback must be treated differently, and he’s not interested in completely overhauling anyone’s mechanics.
I think this is crucial.
There is in sports a strong tendency to develop a theoretical consensus of the “right way” to perform an athletic task. Then, athletes are judged against that consensus. I think this can be counterproductive in two key ways.
1) A great deal of the evaluation of college QBs that we hear picks at their mechanics over and against a theoretical ideal. As I’ll explain later, I think is can be very misleading. I am not saying mechanics don’t matter. I am saying that personal idiosyncrasies lead to variation in mechanics among successful QBs. It would require a very shrewd eye to accurately perceive the difference between “incorrect” mechanics that impair performance and those that merely reflect the distinctive physical and kinesthetic package of a particular human athlete. The draft assessments we see, I think, are seldom really aware of that distinction. One would hope that a teams’ FOs are making more precise assessments, but league batting averages in drafting QBs are not generally reassuring.
2) Instruction and player development can go badly wrong when they force athletes to emulate a theoretical ideal. If such instruction disregards the athlete’s idiosyncratic athletic makeup, it can do more to destroy performance than to emulate it. I think this is what Weinke is referring to, and it rings true to me. It is surely possible to enhance performance through mechanical adjustments, but it is just as surely crucial to work within the scope of who the athlete is rather than trying to force him to emulate an ideal that doesn’t fit his package.
This is a tricky business, and one faced by performance coaches in various sports: hitting and pitching coaches in baseball, shooting coaches in basketball, etc. I don’t really know much about QBing. But I do know something about golf instruction, and I have to believe that QB evaluation and instruction will have instructive parallels.
Of course, in golf, there is no draft. Players declare themselves pros on their own judgment, and then they compete, succeeding or failing on the score card. Most turn to swing coaches at some point, with varying degrees of success. And it’s in the area of instruction that we can, I think, gain insight into the complex interplay between mechanical correctness and individual performance.
Golf instruction has evolved a theoretically correct swing, albeit with competing models. Talented young people today who are privileged to grow up with Country Club instruction often end up with nearly identical, ideal golf swings, each stage of which has drawn approval from swing coaches. Today, the swings of lots and lots of young guns look pretty much like that of Adam Scott, the pro that the TV announcers advise us all to emulate.
But wait. Consider these names. Bubba Watson. Jim Furyk. Dustin Johnson. Freddie Couples. Ken Green. Nancy Lopez. Raymond Floyd. Lee Trevino. Arnold Palmer. Miller Barber. Walter Hagen. Gene Sarazen. What do they all have in common? Swings that are “wrong” according to the theoretical consensus. All pros, most of them great champions. And all of them “guilty” of habits that most swing coaches attempt to “correct” when they see them in amateur students. Zinger had an impossibly strong grip. Cory Pavin had a remarkably weak one. Many of them take the club back “wrong,” outside or inside the “correct plane.” Hell, Bubba hits the ball falling backward, which is something I cannot even imagine doing well.
They have something else in common. At impact, their hands and club heads are in virtually the same place. They just have different ways of getting there. So what gives? Is the consensus theory “wrong” in talking about the problems that arise from swinging into “incorrect” positions?
Well, it’s tricky. Swinging back and through purely on plane requires minimal adjustments and allows for effective results with the simplest motions. The adjustments necessary due to deviations from the pane are inherently complex and can be devilishly hard to make consistently. A hacker who comes to a pro swinging back excessively to the inside and swinging down across the line will get poor results forever if something doesn’t change. There’s a reason that the pro tries to change the mechanics of that back swing.
And yet, there are pros who swing back to the inside. They then compensate. And the compensation works for a couple of reasons. Properly paired deviations from the ideal can be effective. The pros are immensely talented. And, oh yeah, one other point. The pair of compensations FIT the golfer’s kinesthetic personality. They work for THAT GUY’S (or gal’s) body.
Generic golf instruction preaches the gospel of the ideal swing. But effective golf instruction adapts those principles to the individual. Martin Hall recently had a School of Golf segment which was a rare example of acknowledging that golfers differ. He looked at idiosyncratic swings of great golfers and discussed the compensation that made them work. Take the club back inside, and you need to compensate with a dipping lead shoulder. Take it outside and your outside shoulder must rise. The solution is not about matching the ideal. It’s about making 2 deviations from the ideal that match each other. And Hall has, of late, increasingly been acknowledging that golfers must work with their physical makeups. Each golfer’s swing draws on a wide array of variables–strength, flexibility, mass, height, hands (strength, dexterity). I would argue that each golfer has a particular kinesthetic formula is a factor almost never discussed. “Feel is not real,” and all golfers work within their widely differing feels for the game.
All of this means that generic golf instruction lies … in a key sense. It offers the ideal swing as a universal solution that will make the game easier. But if my body/mind dynamic simply doesn’t work that way—it doesn’t!–trying to tear down my mechanics to emulate Adam Scott will be, quite simply, impossible. If a golfer is to have any success, s/he must work with his/her natural instincts. An effective teaching pro (good luck finding one) will understand what to work with, what can be changed, and the compensations that can work. The goal is to deliver the club head into the ball, and different human beings find different ways to do that. Ask the Natural Golf guys who keep Moe Norman’s legacy alive.
Furyk says that, when he was young, he experimented with a more conventional backswing. It was never natural, something he could trust. So he kept his strange backswing (which feels correct to him) and built in the compensations that allow him to hit balls so well and consistently that he won a U. S. Open. And a good golf coach must work with the individual. Zinger is emphatic: if you meet with a pro and don’t instantly see improvement, quit him or her and go find someone else whose instruction works FOR YOU!
OK, back to football. As with golf, one can formulate a theoretical ideal of passing mechanics. And surely there is merit to this. Bad footwork or hand habits can impair performance. Lots of great QBs probably do display similar techniques. But we can all think of effective QBs who deviated from the ideal. I have hazy memories of Johnny Unitas flicking the ball from a low trajectory. Kenny Stabler tossed darts. etc. etc. Like golfers, QBs are human beings who must perform drawing on a particular kinesthetic package. The test of the QB is getting the ball to a point in time and space, not looking like Aaron Rogers in doing it. There will inevitably be a range of mechanical options for doing that, although, again as in golf, any discipline will likely be needed in making adjustments and compensations.
The point is that, ultimately, a QB must perform out of who he is. And an effective QB coach has to be sensitive to the essence of what made the QB good in the first place. There will be room for adjustments. But, as Weinke says, you don’t tear down a QB’s mechanics for the sake of a theoretical ideal. I am heartened to hear our new QB coach voluntarily display awareness of all of this.
And I hope that the Rams’ assessment of college QBs this year is able to see beyond the theoretical ideal and to evaluate the actual athlete. I have a feeling Weinke will help there as well.
By virtue of the absurd ...
March 2, 2015 at 12:59 pm #19343znModeratorWell, RFL, that was good. Very readable. And I agree. I think what’s possible is that they end up with 3 qbs with completely different styles, and they will adjust accordingly, instead of insisting on a mold. (As you say there’s a given n take there…some things you correct, some things you just enhance whether they’re correct or not.) I too like pragmatic offensive coaches who strategize around what they have instead of forcing a routine on all. That goes up to the coordinator level too of course. If you pulled up a game each from 3 Rams qbs over the last 2 years–Bradford, Clemens, Davis–my bet is you would see that the playcalling was built around what each one does. For example, Davis throwing to the deep middle to Cook. That was a Davis thing, and they worked it in as a crucial play in different series.
Partly related to this–I remember when Shurmur was first hired and the qb then was of course Bulger. At the time, the local sports media had this thing about Bulger throwing off his back foot. Shurmur said something so funny. First, he said, well technically what a coach sees there is that he can’t step up in the pocket. He then added that it was good Bulger had that ability (to throw off his back foot) because not every qb did. It was funny, because Shurmur was directly taking on a criticism and basically re-construing it. Shurmur was saying, that’s not Bulger, that’s the situation.
March 2, 2015 at 4:39 pm #19353NERamParticipantWeinke says that taught him each quarterback must be treated differently, and he’s not interested in completely overhauling anyone’s mechanics.
The goal is to deliver the club head into the ball, and different human beings find different ways to do that. Ask the Natural Golf guys who keep Moe Norman’s legacy alive.
Good post, RFL. I enjoyed reading that.
I can personally attest to the success of using the Moe Norman swing. Many years ago, out of sheer frustration at my inability to play consistent golf, I sent away for a video and training guide for the “Jerry Heard Super Swing”.
Prior to using this, I could easily go from a start of par, par, bird, to 3 or 4 triple bogeys in a row. Or, worse yet, totally whiff on a tee shot, and then send another straight down the center. Up and down, up and down.
The premise of the super swing made sense. The weight transfer and wrist rotation, common tripfalls for the average weekend golfer, were taken out of the equation, resulting in a return of the club face to the exact same position as it was at address. I went as far as checking the ball strike with impact tape on the club head, and sure enough, multiple, repeatable hits in the sweet spot.
I agree that trying to force someone into a preferred swing, or QB throw, is probably not going to get good results. Hopefully, Bradford will be allowed to continue with what he does well, the FO addresses the OL line issue(s) to protect those 2 toothpicks that Bradford runs around on, and we get to see what he can do with a receiving corps that seems like its starting to gel.
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