week 14 Goff/Wentz comparisons

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  • #78538
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    Jared Goff or Carson Wentz? Rams, Eagles have both QBs on paths to success

    RYAN KARTJE

    link: http://www.ocregister.com/2017/12/07/jared-goff-or-carson-wentz-rams-eagles-have-both-quarterbacks-on-paths-to-success/

    Their images flashed across the screen at Microsoft Square in depressing succession, like an “In Memoriam” of failed quarterbacks. Jamie Martin. Scott Covington. Chris Chandler. Kyle Boller. Brock Berlin. Austin Davis. It was draft day, Apr. 28, 2016, and minutes later, the Rams would announce their selection of a quarterback at No. 1 overall, a decision that would determine the direction of two franchises. The faces of these anonymous signal callers were a fleeting reminder of the futility the Rams had recently suffered at the position.

    So as the pick neared and the draft party in the downtown L.A. square reached a fevered pitch, buried beneath the buzz of a new quarterback’s arrival was an unspoken, undercurrent of dread that one day the name soon to be called would join them.

    The stakes were high. Both the Rams and Eagles, who drafted one pick later, had spent a fortune for the right to select either Cal’s Jared Goff or North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz. Despite being the draft’s consensus top quarterbacks, scouts decried both as precarious, high-risk prospects. Still, the Rams gave up six picks, including two first-rounders, and the Eagles gave up five, with two of their own firsts. They believed. Many didn’t.

    “It’s hard to be great, if you don’t take some risks,” Eagles general manager Howie Roseman said at the time.

    The Rams chose Goff. The Eagles took Wentz. In Los Angeles and Philadelphia, two strikingly different cities on opposite sides of America roared, as two new eras, forever intertwined, began.

    On their way to Sunday’s crucial clash of NFC contenders, the two young quarterbacks have taken far different paths, one more circuitous than the other. Goff lost every start his rookie season, then fought back from disaster to excel in Year 2. Wentz, anointed right away as the savior of the franchise, has skyrocketed into the MVP conversation this season.

    Needless to say, both draft-day risks were well worth it. The Eagles and Rams sit atop the NFL, their sophomore quarterbacks at the helm of the league’s two best offenses. Even with four games left to play, no pair of quarterbacks drafted 1-2 in league history have more combined wins (19) in their second season.

    Considering their inexperience, their output this season has been extraordinary — and nearly identical. Goff has slightly more passing yards (3,184 to 3,005) and a higher completion percentage (62.2 to 60.7). Wentz has more passing touchdowns (29 to 20). Both have dominated on third down and in the red zone.

    And yet, a divide remains in the public perception of the two quarterbacks. While Wentz has earned raving plaudits across the league, the praise for Goff’s turnaround has been tempered. Wentz owns the league’s top-selling jersey, and to some Eagles fans, his identity borders on folk hero. Goff, meanwhile, is still an enigma to the many who watched him struggle as a rookie.

    “I’d say we’re cautiously optimistic,” says Ralph Valdez, the president of the SoCal Rams Booster Club. “You want to be excited, but at the same time, you never know.”

    On Sunday, their once-divergent paths will cross at the Coliseum, and the comparisons will begin anew. For the first time, Goff and Wentz will face off, and the football world will gaze upon two quarterbacks, drafted one pick apart, who, at this point, look to be the future of the position as we know it.

    “Obviously, we’ll be forever linked because of the draft and everything,” Wentz says.

    “I think we’re both excited for this game.”

    Former training partners

    Their NFL paths began on the same field in Irvine, where Wentz and Goff both prepared for the draft with former quarterback Ryan Lindley. It was a rarity, two top quarterbacks training in the same place. But at least once a week, they threw together, trading reps on a practice field.

    Both had preconceived notions to overcome. Goff came from a college spread offense and never took snaps under center. At the NFL Combine, scouts worried his hands, measured first at nine inches, were too small. Wentz, meanwhile, was unproven: a little-known prospect, who played only Football Championship Subdivision competition at North Dakota State and, due to injury, missed time as a senior.

    Still, former Rams coach Jeff Fisher said then, “We came away knowing both will be extraordinary quarterbacks in this league.”

    Neither seemed to have a clear path to early reps. The Eagles had signed two quarterbacks. The Rams promised not to “subject (Goff) to failure” by playing him too early. But by September, Eagles starter Sam Bradford was traded to the Vikings, and just like that, Wentz was at the helm.

    He never looked back. The Eagles won their first three games, each by two touchdowns or more. The city threw its full support behind Wentz. It didn’t seem to matter that the team lost nine of its next 11 games. Sean McVay, then offensive coordinator in Washington, could see why Wentz’s game translated so quickly.

    “He’s a smart player,” McVay says. “The way that he plays the game – he understands what he’s seeing from the defenses and how that affects his decision-making and what he’s going to do with the football. Then, clearly he’s got the talent.”

    In Los Angeles, Goff continued to wait, as the Rams offense floundered. It wasn’t until Week 11, with the team sitting at 4-5, that he would get his chance. Unlike in Philadelphia, everything fell apart from there.

    Goff went 0-7. The failure the Rams hoped to avoid came fast and furious. He was pummeled, taking 27 sacks. He was ineffective, with a completion percentage under 55 percent and seven interceptions to five touchdowns. Worst of all, he looked lost.

    “Everyone was trying to have a hand in how to mold him,” Rams lineman Rodger Saffold recounts. “It was just too much going on. I don’t think he was ever able to really get comfortable.”

    Goff was roundly criticized at the time. But now, as his turnaround in Year 2 has altered expectations, the lion’s share of the blame has been ascribed to Fisher and the Rams former coaching staff.

    “(Rookie quarterbacks) have to know the system, and Jared didn’t even have a system the first year,” former Rams quarterback Jim Everett says. “If Carson Wentz was running that offense, people would’ve called him a bust.”

    Still, as doubts lingered, Goff entered the offseason with a new coach and a new system. In Philadelphia, Wentz had full continuity in his coaches and offense — a benefit, he says now, that “was huge for me.” He was already accepted as “the leader, the face of the franchise,” Eagles coach Doug Pederson says. Continuity was a luxury Goff simply didn’t have.

    When McVay interviewed for the Rams job, he met with the young quarterback for about 30 minutes. In that meeting, he sensed that Goff’s early failures hadn’t shaken his confidence. He was encouraged.

    “His mental toughness,” McVay said in September, “I think that’s going to serve him well for a long time to come.”

    A month earlier, in training camp, teammates sensed a shift in his attitude, too. He took command. In the huddle, he demanded respect.

    Goff insists that he didn’t change anything in particular — “just be myself and be genuine,” he says — but others noticed subtle differences in his approach.

    “You could just feel his presence a lot more,” Rams guard Jamon Brown says.

    With McVay and the new coaching staff, a clear plan for his development had been put in place. The team fortified the offensive line and added weapons through free agency and the draft. He was surrounded by coaches with experience grooming quarterbacks, and McVay installed a multi-faceted offense that took advantage of his strengths.

    Right away, the impact was clear. He was more comfortable in the pocket. His accuracy returned. He made better decisions.

    “When we were scouting him a year ago, this is exactly what we saw,” Pederson said of Goff. “Obviously he is well coached there. He’s got some great minds on offense that are really just putting him in a position to be successful.”

    Goff’s stunning transformation is a convincing justification for McVay’s impending Coach of the Year candidacy. But ask the first-year head coach, and he’ll place the credit squarely on his quarterback’s shoulders. He points to one drive from the Rams loss to the Seahawks as an example of his mettle.

    Goff had struggled for most of the game, heading into the final minute. He’d thrown two picks and missed a handful of targets.

    “A lot of guys comes into that drive, when we’ve got to have a touchdown to win the game, and they’re almost afraid to lose instead of attacking,” McVay says.

    But on the drive’s first play, Goff launched a 35-yard rocket down the right hash, in between Seattle’s Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman — both All-Pro defensive backs — and connected with tight end Tyler Higbee. Ultimately, Goff fell short of leading a game-winning touchdown drive, his final pass falling just out of reach. But to McVay, the effort was fearless, nonetheless.

    “That’s what’s going to give him a chance to be really special,” he says.

    ‘We’re going to sink or swim with him’

    Inside Sage Restaurant & Lounge in Whittier, there is less certainty. A few hundred members of the SoCal Rams Booster Club have gathered to watch the Rams face the Cardinals, and while the diehards here are universally impressed with Goff’s improvement, there’s a tinge of apprehension behind their praise.

    “We’re going to sink or swim with him,” says Joe Ramirez, 57. “But not everyone is fully on board yet.”

    “He’s done great compared to last year,” adds Ernie Almeida, 52. “But we want to see how he handles big pressure.”

    This caution is not uncommon among Rams fans, who have seen little quarterback success recently and have struggled to reason with Goff’s turnaround season. It also remains in direct contrast with how Eagles fans continue to feel about Wentz.

    A few hours later, at The Britannia Pub in Santa Monica, a table of Philadelphia fans happily fawns over their quarterback, as the Eagles prepare to take on the Seahawks on Sunday Night Football. The bar, known as “Eagles Nest West”, is full of No. 11 jerseys. When a Seattle defender hits Wentz late, several spring to their feet, as if their impulse was to protect him themselves.

    “He’s got this personality, this character,” says Eric Graffeo, 32. “We love his toughness.”

    “Our love for him is stupid right now,” adds Gabe Valente, 30. “I’m pushing for Wentz to be my firstborn’s middle name.”

    For Philadelphia, they explain, it was love at first sight.

    The same can’t be said for Los Angeles. Even as Goff surpasses anyone’s wildest expectations, the apprehension remains. Asked what they’re waiting to see from him, most shrug.

    “Frankly, it’s tough to clear last year from people’s minds,” Everett explains. “Just give it time.”

    The first true chance awaits on Sunday. The Rams and Eagles will meet, and the football world will look back on the draft that sent the 2016 draft’s top two quarterbacks to opposite coasts.

    The winner will be in the NFC’s driver’s seat. But as Carson Wentz and Jared Goff continue to thrive in their second seasons, ahead of even the most optimistic expectations, it’s clear the teams who took a risk in drafting them are set to win for years to come.

    #78539
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    Move the Sticks: Who has the Edge Sunday – Wentz or Goff?

    Rhett Lewis and Bucky Brooks discuss second-year quarterbacks Carson Wentz and Jared Goff ahead of their showdown Sunday in Los Angeles.

    http://www.therams.com/videos/videos/Move-the-Sticks-Who-has-the-Edge-Sunday—Wentz-or-Goff/d066a501-ac08-415f-b557-6e2f1e9254b7

    #78543
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    #78552
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    Goff to L.A., Wentz to Philly: How they became the top two picks in 2016

    Alden Gonzalez

    http://www.espn.com/blog/philadelphia-eagles/post/_/id/23238/jared-goff-and-carson-wentz-went-from-training-together-to-being-picked-1-2

    Quarterbacks rarely become the top two picks in a draft. They also seldom lead playoff-bound teams in only their second season. And they definitely don’t come with an origin story like Jared Goff and Carson Wentz, who shared an agent and trained together before the 2016 NFL draft.

    The Eagles are 10-2, rank first in point differential and are averaging an NFL-leading 30.08 points per game. The Rams are 9-3, rank second in point differential and are averaging an NFL-leading 30.08 points per game. Goff and Wentz represent the seventh quarterback pair to be selected first and second overall since 1967 and will soon become only the fifth of those to meet head-to-head.

    Goff, a gifted downfield passer, went to a Rams team that had just moved from St. Louis to Los Angeles and traded up from No. 15 to No. 1 to have the chance to draft him. He rode the bench early, struggled late, then got a new head coach in Sean McVay who helped launch his career. Goff now sports a 98.4 passer rating and is averaging 8.1 yards per attempt.

    Jared Goff, left, and Carson Wentz celebrate their draft wins. Goff went to the Rams No. 1 and Wentz to the Eagles. AP Photo/Matt Marton
    Wentz, a wizard outside the pocket, went to an Eagles team that looked primed for contention and traded up twice, from No. 13 to 8 to 2 to get him. He thrived immediately, then took his lumps in the back half of his rookie season and now looks like an MVP candidate, while throwing for an NFL-leading 29 touchdowns and sporting a 72.5 Total QBR.

    Leading up to their first meeting as pros, we took a look back at the pre-draft process and told that story from the accounts of those who experienced it. The four executives directly involved — for the Rams, Eagles, Tennessee Titans and Cleveland Browns — declined interviews. But several others shared their memories of the 2016 draft.

    Training together

    Goff and Wentz worked side by side in their competition to become the No. 1 pick. They not only became the first 1-2 quarterback combo to share an agent — Ryan Tollner — but they trained together in the lead-up to the draft. Three days a week, they would take the field, alternating snaps and matching throws.

    With North Dakota State advancing to the FCS championship game, Wentz arrived in California to begin training a week later than Goff and was itching to catch up.

    Ryan Lindley, former NFL quarterback who trained Wentz and Goff: “I want to say [Wentz] took a red eye right after they played their championship game and came right out to Orange County from Texas and wanted to get going. I was like, ‘Hey man, you’re coming off wrist surgery not even eight weeks earlier, came off playing a football game the day before. We can take a couple days off.’ But he wanted to get right to work. And I think it irked him a little bit that Jared already had a week up.”

    Wentz: “We had just finished winning our fifth national championship there, and I knew I was already a couple weeks behind, kind of that pre-draft prep and everything, so I was ready to get it going. I just got out there as quickly as I could.”

    Goff: “I met him. Immediately, right away, you can tell what type of worker he is.”

    Wentz: “Jared and I, we threw on the field together a couple times a week. But we had our own private film sessions with our quarterbacks coach and everything and kind of did our own thing. It was just good to be around him.”

    Lindley: “I mean, obviously Jared took it seriously and knew it was a big deal and was excited to work with us. But once Carson got there you knew there was a bar being set, and each one wanted to jump the other each day and raise it even higher. … You put two alphas in a cage, they’re going to put their hair up and be a little bit on edge, go after it a little bit.”

    Wentz: “He can throw the ball well. He had a lot of arm talent. And he’s a great dude. We got along great.”

    Goff: “Most times, through my life, I’ve thrown, and thrown with quarterbacks, and you kind of know where you are with them, for the most part. I remember throwing with him and it was like, ‘This guy can play.’ Right away. I’m like, ‘OK, he can play.'”

    Lindley: “At the time, coming in, Jared was a better deep-ball thrower. He’s done a little bit more of that — obviously they kind of aired it out at Cal — and Carson was, and still is, an amazing thrower on the run. And he could do a lot with his feet. … I felt good with their progress, but you could kind of see if one was a lot better than the other, they’d want to do it again. ‘Let me get another rep. I can do better. I can do better.'”

    Goff: “Of course, the competitor in me, every time he throws a good throw, I want to throw a good throw. And I’m sure it was the same with him.”

    Tollner: “They pushed each other in terms of preparing and watching film and in the weight room, out on the field throwing. And one thing that I think was evident to both players from Day 1 was, ‘This other guy’s pretty good.'”

    Lindley: “The battle for who was the first quarterback taken was out there, for sure. I think at the end of day, each one of them — that’s a feather in your cap to be labeled by an NFL team as the best guy in your draft class. And I think they wanted that.”

    Throughout their workouts, it was not uncommon for Goff or Wentz to check in with Lindley to gauge his take on the competition.

    Lindley: “It would be different each day. Both have a different way of putting it out there. They’d never completely throw it out there like, ‘Yo, how did I look compared to Carson?’ I don’t think either of them was that self-conscious. But it would be like, ‘Hey, I noticed I needed to improve on this a little bit. How does so-and-so do that?’ You could see it getting to know them. But at the end of the day, they wanted to keep it veiled and know they were kind of checking in subtly.”

    Wentz: “I think we both kind of loved the competition and everything, and it made us both better. I thought it prepared us well for the draft.”

    Goff: “It definitely pushed both of us. I don’t think there was any, ‘I want to go higher than him.’ I wasn’t feeling anything that way, and I don’t think he was, either. I think, for both of us, it was, ‘We want to end up in a good situation. Regardless of who goes first, who goes second, both of us want to end up in a good situation.'”

    Private workouts

    Weather — and even the simulation of weather — played a role in how the draft process unfolded. A North Dakota blizzard on March 24 kept 14 teams from attending Wentz’s pro day. Only one head coach, the Cleveland Browns’ Hue Jackson, was in attendance. “Divine intervention,” Eagles coach Doug Pederson said, looking up to the heavens. California rain proved to be a key ingredient in the Rams’ courtship of Goff. The skies opened over Berkeley prior to their private workout with the Cal quarterback, setting precisely the scene they needed.

    Tollner: “One of the questions related to Goff was, he’s California born and bred, and could he still throw the ball in adverse conditions? If you recall, there were questions in the process about Jared’s hand size, how he grips the football, and how might a rainy day, a late December outdoor contest, affect his ability to throw the ball? It was a cold, kind of windy day in California with rain, and Jared really embraced the opportunity to go out and throw for the Rams’ brass.”

    Former Rams coach Jeff Fisher: “We had watched the weather early that day and we felt like we were going to have a window of about an hour and a half or two hours to get it done. But he preferred to just throw in the rain.”

    The Rams’ contingent included Fisher, general manager Les Snead, offensive coordinator Rob Boras, quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke and receivers coach Mike Groh. They stayed at the Claremont Hotel in Berkeley, California, and Goff was coincidentally staying there, too. They ran into each other in the lobby the night before their workout, which took place the weekend after the combine. The Rams were trying to map out a time that worked. Some of those in attendance will tell you Goff basically demanded to throw in the rain, though Goff dismissed that a bit.

    Goff: “I was under the impression that it was at a set time and I was going. I don’t know. But it was raining. There was nothing I could do about it.”

    Fisher: “We kept the ball as dry as we could. I had a towel and would put the footballs under my jacket between throws. We were trying to do what we could to keep the balls dry. They were still wet, but we felt like they were manageable for him to throw, and he did a really, really good job with everything.”

    Tollner: “Jared apparently threw the ball exceptionally well that day.”

    Goff: “It went well. I know when I throw good balls. Yeah.”

    Wentz was having a different experience with the Browns as a result of a coach’s decision to soak balls with water during the workout to try and create adverse conditions.

    Tollner: It was Cleveland that was doing the wet-ball deal. Their coach would walk up and dump a water bottle on the ball as they’re holding it, and then have them take a few reps throwing the ball. … I mean, it was a pretty unrealistic example of a wet ball: You’re holding a dry football and somebody pours a bucket of water on it and tells you to keep the grip and throw it.”

    Wentz (after his pro day): “It happens. It was pretty doused. It would’ve had to be a torrential downpour.”

    Things went smoother when an Eagles contingent — Pederson, Eagles vice president of football operations Howie Roseman, offensive coordinator Frank Reich, quarterbacks coach John DeFilippo and owner Jeffrey Lurie — visited Wentz in Fargo, North Dakota.

    Pederson: “We got off the plane, got right to the stadium, he greeted us right at the door. He was ready to go. He already went through a preworkout before we got there. And then DeFilippo and Frank took him through about 30 minutes of throwing and agility work. Pretty impressive. You sit there and you’re going, ‘All right, this kid might have a little something.'”

    Tollner: They went to dinner — their coaches and Howie — at I believe one of the nicest restaurants in Fargo, and they all had just a genuinely enjoyable dinner. The Eagles group came away really, really impressed by him — the way he carried himself and just his level of confidence.”

    Roseman (on draft day): “His presence when he walks in the room, when he talks to you not only about football but about life, and then when you watch him interact with people. He walks in the restaurant, just the impressions people have. … I saw the manager and the hostess talking to each other and saying, ‘Carson is just the greatest guy. He’s always so humble, and he’s always so appreciative of all of us here.'”

    Wentz: “I just remember I felt really confident with all my workouts and board work — drill work, board work, watching film, kind of everything. I felt really good all the way through that draft process with the Rams, with the Eagles, and all the teams that I met with.”

    Pederson: “It was toward the end of March we set up that trip to go work out Goff and Wentz and [Kevin] Hogan at Stanford, and then come back and meet with the kid at Memphis, Paxton Lynch, those four guys. And we spent equal amount of time with all of them. We wanted to make sure we were fair with our evaluations. But at the same time, we could have spent two days with Carson. It was easy with him.”

    Trading up

    Goff was in Philadelphia, getting ready for bed on the night of April 13. His visit with the Eagles was scheduled for the following morning. But then he got a phone call. The Rams had acquired the No. 1 pick from the Tennessee Titans, giving up six picks — two of them in the first round — to move up a whopping 14 spots. Kobe Bryant was playing in his final NBA game that night, and the Rams didn’t want to steal his spotlight by announcing their trade. The rest of the world would find out the next day.

    Goff: “I woke up the next morning, and, of course, it’s three hours ahead. So I’m in my meetings with Philly. And again, I have so much respect for Philly. I love their coaches and love Lurie, love everything they have going on there, love Howie, and I think they’re a really, really good franchise. I’m sitting in an interview — or a meeting, I believe — with one of their psychologists. My phone just starts going buzz, buzz, buzz. It just starts buzzing off the hook. And that’s when I was like, ‘Oh, shoot, they must’ve just traded up. It must’ve just happened.’ Sure enough, I look at my phone, and it’s happening. I look at the TV, and it’s happening.”

    The Rams had tried to trade up in the draft the prior year, after scouting Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota. But the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Titans held the top two spots and wouldn’t budge.

    Fisher: “We kind of had a sense of the quarterback class at that time and felt like, to have an opportunity to get a franchise quarterback in that group, we had to go there. … We would have gone through the same exercise had the team stayed in St. Louis. I can say that with absolute certainty. This was a need that the team had to address no matter where we were.”

    Tollner: “The Titans have the first pick and we represented their quarterback in Marcus Mariota, so there were certainly discussions with Jon Robinson, the Titans GM, about the possibility of moving out of the first pick, and there were discussions with Les Snead, the Rams GM, about trying to get all the way up to No. 1 to ensure he would get the player he wanted. And how can you execute that trade from 15 to 1? Very, very difficult.

    Snead (at the April 14 news conference): “We were at the combine. … You get to draft for suites, and the Titans were our neighbors [in 2016]. It was easy for us to sneak out the back there and chat about the pick. It’s a long process. Through the process, you get a feel [the Titans] were willing. But they definitely had a value for their pick. You have that luxury when you have a QB.”

    Tollner: “All of this was going on for a couple months prior to the draft. And the Rams became fixated on the idea; Les Snead became fixated on the idea of trading all the way up to No. 1.”

    Robinson (to Titans.com on April 14): “We’ve had some discussions back-and-forth going back to the combine. Some initial, exploratory discussions, if you will. Things kind of heated up over the last several weeks, and then we were finally able to come to a decision.”

    Fisher: “Our board was good with respect to the other quarterbacks, but we felt, to truly have the opportunity to get one of the top two — Jared or Carson — we were going to have to move up. … We really felt at that time, based on all the information we had gathered on both players, we couldn’t go wrong if we could get to either one or two.”

    Robinson (to Titans.com on April 14): “It was a chance for us to really bolster the depth of our football team, having six shots at the top 76 players in this draft, not to mention five next year with the extra one and the extra three.”

    Goff: “I knew it was me or Carson. And we both did. We didn’t find out for sure until sometime later, but yeah, that’s the first thing you think of is, ‘Oh, man, is it me?'”

    The Eagles had already traded up from No. 13 to No. 8 in March, but they, too, were eyeing a quarterback. The Browns also wanted a quarterback, but seemingly didn’t become infatuated with Goff or Wentz. They went back-and-forth with the Eagles for weeks and ultimately accepted five picks — two in the first round — for the No. 2 overall selection on April 21, seven days after the Rams’ trade.

    Tollner: “I was in constant communication with Howie [Roseman], and when the Rams executed the trade up to No. 1, then the feeling was, ‘OK, who do you think they’re going to take?’ And I felt it would be Goff, and that’s when they started to make the move.”

    Roseman (on April 21): “It’s rare for us to be in the top 10 in the draft, but that was our No. 1 goal in the offseason.”

    Goff: “I found out about the Eagles’ trade on my Rams visit. I was here a week later, and sure enough, on the TV, ‘Eagles move up to No. 2.'”

    Sashi Brown, former Browns vice president of football operations (at the 2017 NFL combine): “We do like the trade. … Understanding where we were as a roster, understanding that we were passing on the opportunity to take a player, whether it’s [defensive end Joey] Bosa or Wentz. … This is a trade when you probably look back at it that will work out for both teams.”

    Goff: “At the end of the day, when they were both one and two, I was like, ‘Man, those are probably my two favorites.’ I liked L.A. the best, but the Eagles were right there. And I would’ve been very happy with either one of them.”

    Wentz: “I think it ended up working out for both of us.”

    The decision

    The Rams traveled to play the Oakland Raiders to open the 2015 preseason on Aug. 14. For Snead, who started paying attention to Goff when he became the first true freshman to start at Cal, it was a chance to watch him practice. The Rams’ interest in Goff — and desire for a franchise quarterback — grew stronger as the 2015 season played out, ultimately motivating them to move up to the No. 1 overall pick.

    Tollner: “The Rams identified early in the process that they were going to take a quarterback, and they were willing to do whatever it took to get one. I think that they had their sights set on Jared very early.”

    Goff: “I loved the coaches, and I loved the whole [Rams] organization. I liked [chief operating officer Kevin] Demoff, Les, the previous staff. I did like them a lot. I had a good rapport with all of them. I loved Fisher, and Les was awesome. It was just a really good feeling, a really good vibe.”

    Pederson: “It kind of went back-and-forth. It was like, ‘OK, this week it’s Carson, next week it’s Goff.’ As you study and go back and look at all their tape and look at different things, probably the one thing is that you couldn’t see bad-weather games with Carson because he was always in a dome. I think he played in one bad-weather game and he played in 40 degrees and raining. That was like the worst he’s been in during his college career, where Goff was at least outside — California — there’s always going to be rain, different things, so you can compare all kinds of stuff. But at the end of the day, we just felt real comfortable that if we’d get our chance, that [Wentz] would be our guy.”

    The Eagles worked out Goff, Wentz, Lynch and Hogan in late March, weeks before they would trade from No. 8 to No. 2. They returned to Philadelphia, and that’s when they pretty much knew Wentz was the player they wanted.

    Pederson: “We started writing up our reports and talking some more and doing some more of the analytical stuff with all of the quarterbacks. Then we had the 30 visits, and both Goff and Dak Prescott was here, Carson was here. And we just came away at that point thinking, ‘Man, Carson.'”

    Wentz: “I just felt a great connection with this coaching staff, with the city. Just kind of the blue-collar work ethic — everything about it. I just kind of fell in love with it.”

    Tollner: “The Eagles made the trade up to two expecting to get Carson, and I think that my gut feel on that was sort of a strong factor for them, and it turned out to be right.”

    Roseman (on draft day): “He was our top player on our board.”

    Goff pretty much knew he was going No. 1 about a week before the draft. Snead and Fisher had decided well before that. But they mostly kept it to themselves, partly because they still wanted to hear honest, fair, unbiased opinions from their scouts and coaches. Stan Kroenke, the Rams owner, knew about the decision before he sat down with Goff at Mastro’s Steakhouse in Beverly Hills in the days leading up to the draft.

    Goff: “We had the same agent. He’s got information from the Eagles, he’s got information from the Rams. We both find out. It was never for sure until my name was called. So I’m still sitting at the table, waiting for my phone to ring. You never really know for sure.”

    Wentz: “I think we both had a pretty good idea of where we would end up, but we still were just waiting for that call — when the Rams were on the clock, right then and there.”

    Tollner: “Both of them had the opportunity to spend quite a bit of time with those teams at the combine, at a private workout, at a team visit. And they both came away saying, ‘This would be a great place to play. I think I can be successful here.’ I think they liked the people, the location. … There were certainly other teams that [they] thought presented great opportunities, as well, but those were two that both players came away saying, ‘This would be pretty cool to get drafted here.'”

    Fisher: “[Goff] was very, very excited. We had a conversation earlier in the day. You’re just checking the phones, you’re making sure you can get in touch with him. He’s got the family in New York, and we told him he would be hearing from us very shortly, once the draft got started. … It wasn’t that phone call where he’s on national TV. It was the phone call to let him know shortly ahead of time. I know he had a smile on his face, and he said, ‘I won’t let you guys down. I’m very excited, and thanks for the opportunity.'”

    Wentz: “It was a crazy whirlwind. You’re playing every scenario in your head. Trying not to, but you naturally are. But at the end of the day, wouldn’t trade it for the world where I ended up.”

    #78553
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    You know…go rewatch that TD pass to Reynolds, and keep an eye on Watkins at the top of the screen. What was that?

    #78554
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    You know…go rewatch that TD pass to Reynolds, and keep an eye on Watkins at the top of the screen. What was that?

    Yeah I saw that. IMO? He didn’t hear the audible.

    #78557
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Carson Wentz has the edge vs. Rams QB Jared Goff? Kurt Warner breaks it down.

    #78558
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Top 1-2 QB draft duo? It’s Goff-Wentz — so far

    Kevin Seifert

    This Sunday’s matchup between Jared Goff and Carson Wentz — oh, and the rest of their teams — represents a rarity in NFL history. The pair is one of only seven quarterback duos to be drafted No. 1 and 2 during the common draft era (since 1967), and in no other instance have both experienced this degree of success so soon — if at all.

    As the playoff push accelerates, Goff has the Los Angeles Rams (9-3) atop the NFC West. Wentz’s Philadelphia Eagles (10-2) can clinch the NFC East as early as this week. Both rank among the NFL’s top 11 in passing yards and touchdowns, and if Wentz wins the NFL’s Most Valuable Player Award — he finished second in the latest edition of our MVP Poll — he would join Peyton Manning as the only quarterback drafted No. 1 or 2 in the common era to receive that honor. Manning, though, didn’t win his first of five MVPs until his sixth season.

    Goff’s and Wentz’s success stands out in particular to the mostly desultory history of quarterbacks taken at the top of drafts. None have made the Hall of Fame, although Manning is a lock when he is eligible in 2021, and at least four can safely be called busts. You’ll find that the early success of Goff and Wentz already stands apart from their predecessors, though that history shouldn’t be stunning given the general ineptitude of teams typically at the top of the draft.

    What follows is an attempt to rank the six previous duos, using balanced success as the primary category. (Pro Football Reference provides an amazing database for this type of information.)

    1. Jim Plunkett and Archie Manning: 1971

    By Year 2: The New England Patriots went 9-20 in 1971-72 with Plunkett as their starter. He threw 41 interceptions over that span. Manning’s New Orleans Saints were 5-16-3 in his starts as he was sacked a league-high 83 times in 26 total games.

    Overall: Manning became a two-time Pro Bowl player for a Saints franchise that never managed a winning record during his 11-year tenure. When he retired in 1984, after stops in Houston and Minnesota, his career total of 23,911 passing yards ranked No. 7 in NFL history. Plunkett, meanwhile, found career success with the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, leading them to victories in Super Bowls XV and XVII. Plunkett and Manning represent the only duo on this list that both developed into long-term starters for any franchise.

    Rick Mirer landed in Chicago after four years in Seattle while Drew Bledsoe started eight full seasons in New England before being unseated by Tom Brady after suffering an injury early in his ninth year. Jim Davis/The Boston Globe via Getty Images
    2. Drew Bledsoe and Rick Mirer: 1993

    By Year 2: Bledsoe led the NFL with 4,555 passing yards in 1994 for the Patriots and was named to the Pro Bowl. Mirer was less established, but still managed to start 29 of the Seattle Seahawks’ 32 games, during which the team compiled an 11-18 record.

    Overall: Bledsoe was a four-time Pro Bowl player over his 14-year career that included stints with three teams. He was famously unseated as the Patriots’ starter by Tom Brady in 2001, but when he retired after the 2006 season, Bledsoe’s 44,611 passing yards ranked No. 6 in NFL history. The Seahawks gave up on Mirer after four seasons as their primary quarterback. They were 20-31 in games he started. Mirer made stops in Chicago, New York, San Francisco and Oakland before retiring in 2004. If anything, however, a 12-year career span stands out relative to this list.

    3. Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III: 2012

    By Year 2: Both players were instant sensations. Luck earned Pro Bowl honors in each of his first two seasons, leading the Indianapolis Colts to a pair of playoff appearances. Griffin was arguably better than Luck in their rookie year — he was named Offensive Rookie of the Year — throwing 20 touchdown passes and rushing for 815 yards to lead the Washington Redskins to a rare playoff appearance.

    Overall: Neither has played in 2017. Griffin’s football world crashed after his magical rookie season and Luck’s career has been derailed by three years of injuries. Griffin rushed his return from knee surgery in 2013 and hasn’t played since an aborted run as the Cleveland Browns’ 2016 starter, in which he started only five games in total. Luck missed nine games in 2015, was less effective last season and will miss the 2017 season. While there is optimism that Luck can return to previous form in 2018, Griffin’s career is presumed to be over after 40 career starts.

    4. Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota: 2015

    By Year 2: Both players had winning records in their starts by the end of their second year. Mariota (8-7) threw 26 touchdown passes to have the Tennessee Titans in playoff contention. Winston (9-7) threw for more than 4,000 yards in each of his first two seasons for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

    Overall: The trajectory has straightened in Year 3. Although the Titans are 8-3 and atop the AFC South, Mariota has struggled with interceptions, throwing 12 against 10 touchdowns in 11 starts. Winston has navigated a shoulder injury and the Buccaneers are just 2-7 in his starts. Their teams remain firmly committed to them as starters, but it’s undeniable that Winston and Mariota have stepped backward during a season in which there was hope they would break through as elite-level passers.

    5. Tim Couch and Donovan McNabb: 1999

    By Year 2: Couch lost 17 of his first 21 starts with the Browns and missed nine games in his second year because of a broken thumb. McNabb fared much better, making the 2000 Pro Bowl in his first full season as a starter for the Eagles.

    Overall: Couch’s career was derailed by injuries and ended after the 2004 season. He did help lead the Browns to the playoffs in 2002, their only appearance in the past 19 years, but backup Kelly Holcomb started that game. Couch’s injuries and ultimate failure kicked off what has been a disastrous return to the NFL for the franchise. McNabb, on the other hand, was the Eagles’ starter for a decade. He earned six trips to the Pro Bowl, took them to five NFC championship games and an appearance in Super Bowl XXXIX. He was by far the best of a 1999 quarterback class that included five first-round draft picks.

    6. Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf: 1998

    By Year 2: The diametric contrast between the two players had already emerged. Manning rebounded from a 28-interception rookie season to throw for 4,135 yards and make the Pro Bowl for the Colts in 1999. Leaf followed a disastrous rookie season — two touchdown passes and 15 interceptions with the San Diego Chargers — by missing all of 1999 with a shoulder injury.

    Overall: This story has been well told. Manning was one of the best players in NFL history, a five-time MVP and two-time Super Bowl champion. Leaf was one of the NFL’s all-time flameouts. He returned to the Chargers in 2000, but struggled once again, throwing 18 interceptions in 11 games and endearing himself to no one with a surly personality. He parted ways with the Chargers after the season and threw his last NFL pass a year later for the Dallas Cowboys. The Colts’ decision to choose Manning over Leaf, which was hotly debated at the time, proved one of the most fortuitous choices in league history. While Manning is the best player on the list, Leaf was the worst. When judging by class balance, this one deserves bottom billing.

    #78559
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Does Carson Wentz has the edge vs. Rams QB Jared Goff?

    Does Wentz has the edge?

    Concludes Warner, yes he are. He does has the edge. It am close though.

    #78571
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    it’s crazy. people laughed when the rams and eagles traded up to grab these guys.

    they’re looking better than luck/rgiii and mariota/winston at this point. i think it shows how much coaching and luck factor in sometimes. i think mariota under mcvay would be one helluva qb/coach combo. not to take anything away from goff.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #78584
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Cards players compare Goff and Wentz

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-rams-cardinals-farmer-20171203-story.html

    In terms of which quarterback is further along at this point in his young career, a sampling of Cardinals defenders said Wentz — but not by much.

    “If I was to say who is the most commanding at the line, I’d probably have to go with Wentz,” Mathieu said. “But those guys are neck and neck when you talk about potential, how much they’ve grown, how well they protect the football. Are they able to spot blitzes? Are they able to spot coverages and try to put the offense in a different position?

    “Goff’s not overwhelmed. Neither of them are. We tried to play a lot of man today and blitz a lot, and he doesn’t get rattled, he doesn’t get overwhelmed. A lot of that has to do with confidence, but you can tell that his team believes in him as well.”

    Cardinals defensive lineman Frostee Rucker gives a lot of credit to McVay, pointing out how Goff gets to the line of scrimmage quickly, enabling McVay to speed-read the defense and deliver instructions to his young quarterback before the in-helmet radio cuts off with 15 seconds left on the play clock.

    “Defenses stress to get on the ball because they think you’re going to snap it, and then they get to see what you’re in,” said Rucker, a former USC standout.

    Meanwhile, the football world is talking about them.

    They are Generation Next. It’s not Tom Brady vs. Peyton Manning, but who knows what their rivalry will evolve into a few years down the road?

    “They’re in good systems, they’re coached well, and the sky’s the limit for both those guys,” Arians said.

    #78603
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #78605
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    Goff: “We had the same agent. He’s got information from the Eagles, he’s got information from the Rams. We both find out. It was never for sure until my name was called. So I’m still sitting at the table, waiting for my phone to ring. You never really know for sure.”

    Wentz: “I think we both had a pretty good idea of where we would end up, but we still were just waiting for that call — when the Rams were on the clock, right then and there.”

    i think it was pretty obvious by the way they dressed. at least that’s the way it appeared to me.

    i do think both have a ways to go yet. and i do think that goff possibly. possibly. might have the higher upside. he was raw coming out of college. physically he can develop even more due to his age. just depends on how much he can develop the mental part of his game. physically, he just needs to hit the gym. should be simple enough. he already looks bigger compared to his rookie year.

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