Tucker Carlson: Bolton was a leftist

Zooey wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-hails-firing-of-john-bolton-he-was-fundamentally-a-man-of-the-left

This is the political climate we live in. A country where one-third of the population gets spoonfed absolute nonsense.

Up until roughly 20 years ago, this was fringe-right-wing nonsense. Now it’s mainstream right-wing nonsense. I bump into it all the time.

There’s a range, of course. From right-wing pundits who know better, but spread it anyway . . . to the rank and file who really believe it now. They apparently actually believe it’s impossible for right-wingers to be in charge of totalitarian systems, or for those systems to be right-wing. They see “fascism” and nazism” as left-wing, even though virtually no one did at the time these systems were in place . . . and when this is brought up to them, they dismiss or ignore the facts. They also dismiss or ignore the fact that all the resistance movements in Europe were led by leftists, and that fascists and nazis started to wipe out their leftist enemies even before they went after the Jews.

I’m currently rereading 1984. This is a replay of “those who own the present, own the past,” etc. etc. They’ve rewritten it to suit their beliefs. They’ve convinced themselves that “big government” is always already “leftist,” even though “conservatism,” going back thousands of years, entailed a massive, generally oppressive “state.” Or a massive, oppressive Church/State nexus, etc.

Right-wing ideology has always been extremely comfortable with Big Gubmint and authoritarian systems. Ironically, it’s “the left” that traditionally fought against them.

• This reply was modified 5 years ago by Billy_T.

Billy_T wrote:

Zooey wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-hails-firing-of-john-bolton-he-was-fundamentally-a-man-of-the-left

This is the political climate we live in. A country where one-third of the population gets spoonfed absolute nonsense.

Up until roughly 20 years ago, this was fringe-right-wing nonsense. Now it’s mainstream right-wing nonsense. I bump into it all the time.

There’s a range, of course. From right-wing pundits who know better, but spread it anyway . . . to the rank and file who really believe it now. They apparently actually believe it’s impossible for right-wingers to be in charge of totalitarian systems, or for those systems to be right-wing. They see “fascism” and nazism” as left-wing, even though virtually no one did at the time these systems were in place . . . and when this is brought up to them, they dismiss or ignore the facts. They also dismiss or ignore the fact that all the resistance movements in Europe were led by leftists, and that fascists and nazis started to wipe out their leftist enemies even before they went after the Jews.

I’m currently rereading 1984. This is a replay of “those who own the present, own the past,” etc. etc. They’ve rewritten it to suit their beliefs. They’ve convinced themselves that “big government” is always already “leftist,” even though “conservatism,” going back thousands of years, entailed a massive, generally oppressive “state.” Or a massive, oppressive Church/State nexus, etc.

Right-wing ideology has always been extremely comfortable with Big Gubmint and authoritarian systems. Ironically, it’s “the left” that traditionally fought against them.

I’m constantly fighting the “the Nazis were socialist because ‘Socialist’ is in the name” battle with my brother.

nittany ram wrote:

I’m constantly fighting the “the Nazis were socialist because ‘Socialist’ is in the name” battle with my brother.

Your brother should think about North Korea’s official name:

The Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. What a nation or a political party decides to name itself is totally irrelevant. It’s what it does that matters. It needs to be judged according to that.

And, of course, Hitler’s Germany was a capitalist society, not socialist. It was also a workers’ hell hole, which included (literally) slave labor. And, the nazis got their start (in the 1920s) in the streets thuggishly attacking leftists, including socialists and communists . . . and once in power, slaughtered, jailed, tortured or exiled them and made the German Left flat out illegal.

Oh, and there’s the rather inconvenient fact that all neo-fascist and neo-nazi groups, political parties, individuals, proudly claim the mantle of “right-wing,” and are seen as right-wing by their enemies. Charlottesville’s “unite the right” march was a coalition of neo-fascist and neo-nazi groups. Same thing all across Europe.

There’s no historical support whatsoever for your brother’s view, or Carlson’s . . . but it’s been mainstreamed.

nittany ram wrote:

I use the same argument you mention above whenever my brother thinks he’s scoring points by reminding me that the KKK was started by southern Democrats. Then I remind him which political party the modern KKK endorses. It shuts him up for about a week. Then he’ll rehash the same argument. It’s like I’m stuck in a bizarre, Trumpian Ground Hog Day time loop.

The name doesn’t matter it’s the policies. When arguing with folks stress that. The Nazis sided against unions, cooperated with capitalists, and declared “the bolsheviks” their great political enemy. Doesn’t matter if the person you’re debating keeps saying “but this one goes to 11.” Ask them to name one single socialist policy the Nazis backed or implemented.

zn wrote:

The name doesn’t matter it’s the policies. When arguing with folks stress that. The Nazis sided against unions, cooperated with capitalists, and declared “the bolsheviks” their great political enemy. Doesn’t matter if the person you’re debating keeps saying “but this one goes to 11.” Ask them to name one single socialist policy the Nazis backed or implemented.

In my experience, most of them wouldn’t know what a socialist policy was. They don’t know what socialism is. They think they do, but all they really know is the caricature of socialism portrayed by Fox News and Limbaugh.

nittany ram wrote:

zn wrote:

The name doesn’t matter it’s the policies. When arguing with folks stress that. The Nazis sided against unions, cooperated with capitalists, and declared “the bolsheviks” their great political enemy. Doesn’t matter if the person you’re debating keeps saying “but this one goes to 11.” Ask them to name one single socialist policy the Nazis backed or implemented.

In my experience, most of them wouldn’t know what a socialist policy was. They don’t know what socialism is. They think they do, but all they really know is the caricature of socialism portrayed by Fox News and Limbaugh.

I find that if one is patient enough all people will listen respectfully to good rational arguments.

Lol.

Sorry couldn’t do that and keep a straight face.

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