Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Trump’s State of the Union Speech
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wv.
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February 5, 2020 at 12:02 am #110979
waterfieldParticipantI’m sure that few if any here actually watched it. But had you done so he laid out his plan on how he will attack whoever is the democrats nominee. And the democrats better wake up ! His statement to the effect that as long as he is President this country will never let “socialism” to destroy the American Health Care system. Now there are plenty of “arguments” to show how stupid that is but people will hear this and much like 2018 their health care will drive them to the polls. Moreover, he is going to go after the African American vote and continue his disparage of Latinos. From all accounts it was his best and most powerful speech he has given. He IS a formidable opponent and more Republicans than 2016 are supportive of him. IMO if Sanders is the nominee-game over ! The question each of you need to answer is: what is more important to you the defeat of Trump or the support of a person who shares your political ideology. IMO 4 more years of Trump will do more damage to this country than you can imagine. Whether its climate control, Russian dominance , NATO, continued unequal distribution of wealth,gun control, race, criminal justice, education, etc. We may be on the verge of actually having a King destroy a Republic. Some, maybe many here, might like that idea. It is, after all, “revolutionary”. To some that may sound sexy but to some of us older it means anarchy and a centralized and dictatorial government.
In sum I strongly recommend you watch his speech and then decide who can defeat this ego maniac who care less about you and this country.
February 5, 2020 at 8:00 am #110984
wvParticipantIf Bernie is the nominee, I’ll vote for Bernie.
If a DNC-typical-Dem is the nominee, I’ll vote Green Party, again.I’m just never voting for another biosphere-destroyer, W.
What I’ll be curious to see, is this — If Bernie loses again, is the ‘progressive movement’ essentially over?
I cant see anyone else in the Dem Party picking up the baton and running with it the way Bernie did. I dont think AOC would be taken as seriously as Bernie. I dont see anyone else out there who could do what Bernie has done.w
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This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by wv.
February 5, 2020 at 9:56 am #110987
Billy_TParticipantDidn’t watch the speech, but read some of the fact-checking. As usual, Trump lied his ass off.
He’s done so more than 16,000 times now, just since taking office.
(Again, as mentioned before, these lies are documented lies of commission. He tells the same lies of omission as past presidents too.)
One fact-checker’s report on the SOTU speech:
Trump keeps saying this is the greatest economy ever, and it’s not even close to those from the 50s and 60s, or Clinton’s. In fact, on most metrics, Trump’s economy isn’t even as good as Obama’s over the same period of time. Obama had a higher per-month job-gain record, higher wages, and a higher workforce participation increase to tout. GDP for last year was 2.3%. Again, that’s far, far from our best.
Of course, two major factors all presidents seem to leave out when they talk about GDP:
1. Distribution of those gains
2. Impact on the environment/climate changeAnd the first one has a significant 1A: Those at the bottom have so little, make so little, that even if they do see solid gains, they’re still lagging waaay behind. Math and percentages are a beach, as the kids used to say.
All of the above will be ignored by his base, and, unfortunately, but most Americans, including “swing” voters. They also should consider all the help Trump has had along the way, protected as he has been by the GOP like a mob boss under siege — but successfully.
Trump won largely by lying about migrants and the economy. And he may win again with basically the same tactic. The earth won’t survive four more years of his policies.
February 5, 2020 at 12:06 pm #110990waterfieldParticipantIf Bernie is the nominee, I’ll vote for Bernie.
If a DNC-typical-Dem is the nominee, I’ll vote Green Party, again.I’m just never voting for another biosphere-destroyer, W.
What I’ll be curious to see, is this — If Bernie loses again, is the ‘progressive movement’ essentially over?
I cant see anyone else in the Dem Party picking up the baton and running with it the way Bernie did. I dont think AOC would be taken as seriously as Bernie. I dont see anyone else out there who could do what Bernie has done.w
vOf course if he’s the nominee I’ll vote for him too. What I’m saying is :if Sanders is the nominee Trump is going to get all the deplorable ignorants out of their beds, into their trucks, and down from the hills into the voting booths-and then we have a genuine monarchy.
February 5, 2020 at 2:47 pm #110999wvParticipantOf course if he’s the nominee I’ll vote for him too. What I’m saying is :if Sanders is the nominee Trump is going to get all the deplorable ignorants out of their beds, into their trucks, and down from the hills into the voting booths-and then we have a genuine monarchy.
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Well, Joe Rogan appeals to many, many, of those ‘deplorables.’ You know who Rogan is, right? And Rogan said he’s probly voting for Bernie.
Bernie might just appeal to a sliver of Trump voters. Just enough, maybe. Just enough.
What do i know, though. Everything is in flux, now. Anything could happen.
I’m just an ignorant man, who watches surf videos.w
v
“I know not how I may seem to others, but to myself I am but a small child wandering upon the vast shores of knowledge, every now and then finding a small bright pebble to content myself with.” ― PlatoFebruary 5, 2020 at 3:50 pm #111003
ZooeyModeratorMy thoughts:
1. Trump IS formidable, and the election will be close unless the Dems screw up everything somehow with a debacle of some kind in the primaries/convention.
2. The GOP accused Obama of being a socialist. They are going to throw everything they can at the nominee, no matter who it is. And some of those things will be real, and some of them will be made up.
3. The difference, imo, will be voter turnout. And the enthusiasm is deeper and wider for Sanders than for any other candidate. I know he repels a lot of people, and that will cost him some votes. But the early indications are that he will bring in a lot of the Obama voters who sat out 2016, and his popularity among the largest voting block (the youngsters) outstrips every other candidate by a wide margin. And that is a tough group to get to the booth.
4. Trump is going to get all the deplorable ignorants out of their beds, into their trucks, and down from the hills into the voting booths no matter what. We have to outvote them.
February 6, 2020 at 12:38 pm #111011waterfieldParticipantMy thoughts:
1. Trump IS formidable, and the election will be close unless the Dems screw up everything somehow with a debacle of some kind in the primaries/convention.
2. The GOP accused Obama of being a socialist. They are going to throw everything they can at the nominee, no matter who it is. And some of those things will be real, and some of them will be made up.
3. The difference, imo, will be voter turnout. And the enthusiasm is deeper and wider for Sanders than for any other candidate. I know he repels a lot of people, and that will cost him some votes. But the early indications are that he will bring in a lot of the Obama voters who sat out 2016, and his popularity among the largest voting block (the youngsters) outstrips every other candidate by a wide margin. And that is a tough group to get to the booth.
4. Trump is going to get all the deplorable ignorants out of their beds, into their trucks, and down from the hills into the voting booths no matter what. We have to outvote them.
Bernie doesn’t repel me. I seem to like the guy. But I do get the sense he’s like the Trump for the progressive left. He speaks in great sweeping generalities with little substance in terms of just how to get where he’s headed. Once again this coming election will be decided by electoral votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. And that is where the danger lies with Sanders.
Today’s L.A. Times:
Op-Ed: The winning 2018 Democratic playbook: Avoid talking about ‘Medicare for all’
Voting booths in Minneapolis in 2018.
Democrats who won in swing states in 2018 talked about improving the Affordable Care Act, not replacing it.(Steve Karnowski / Associated Press )
By SETH HILL
FEB. 6, 2020 3 AM
To retake the presidency in November, the Democrats will need to win the electoral college. The clearest path to do that is to win the swing states that had the closest margins in the 2016 election. Fortunately, the Democrats have a playbook to follow from the 2018 midterm election.There are many factors that led to Democratic victories in the crucial swing states of Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin in 2018, and it’s always hard to isolate any single cause. But the successful Democrats all talked about healthcare — with a focus on fixing the Affordable Care Act and reinforcing Medicare.
I looked at the congressional districts in Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin where Democratic House candidates picked up the most votes in the 2018 election relative to the 2016 presidential election. (I excluded Pennsylvania from the analysis because it drew new congressional district lines in 2018.)
Healthcare was the most prominent message of the Democrats who won those House seats. They focused on creating an option to buy in to Medicare, building upon the Affordable Care Act, and lowering costs of prescription drugs. Those campaign messages seemed to resonate with voters in the upper Midwest states.
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Across these three states, 12 Democratic House candidates received more votes than did Hillary Clinton in 2016 in their districts. This feat was impressive because turnout is lower in midterm elections. In these districts, there were between 35,000 and 60,000 fewer votes cast in each, yet these candidates received between 3,900 and 116,000 more votes than Clinton.For example, Democrat Ron Kind in Wisconsin’s 3rd District received 187,888 votes in 2018. Hillary Clinton received 160,999 votes in 2016 in that district — even though 48,000 fewer total votes were cast in 2018 than in 2016. Kind and these other candidates were able to capture more votes than Clinton without increasing turnout, which suggests they were able to win the votes of many who had not voted for Clinton in 2016.
The results in the 12 districts I examined — the 1st, 5th, 7th, 8th and 11th in Michigan; the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th and 8th in Minnesota; and the 3rd and 6th in Wisconsin — may be able to offer some insight into the policy platforms that can generate stronger voter support. Ten of these 12 districts cast more votes for Trump than Clinton in 2016 and six were close enough in 2016 that the two presidential candidates were within 10 percentage points of each other. These are not solid Democratic districts.
For my analysis, I examined the campaign web pages from the morning of the election, Nov. 6, 2018. Ten of these 12 websites presented a list of issue priorities, showing how the candidates chose to present themselves to voters seeking information.
For the winners in the 12 districts, healthcare was a top issue. Eight of the 10 candidates’ websites listed healthcare first or second in their issue priorities, the remaining two listed healthcare third. Other important issues listed were supporting veterans, the Flint water crisis, education, protecting working families and campaign finance reform. This focus on healthcare was not limited to these districts. Among all Democratic candidates, healthcare was a central theme in their 2018 campaign ads.
Among these 10 Democratic candidates, seven proposed allowing those aged 55 to 65 the option to buy in to Medicare, six wrote of fixing and building upon the Affordable Care Act, six supported having a government policy to lower the cost of prescription drugs, and four expressed opposition to Republican efforts to repeal the ACA.
None of the candidates’ campaign sites mentioned “Medicare for all.” This suggests Democratic presidential candidates should be cautious about departing from the messages and policy platforms of the 2018 midterm winners, without good reason and careful discussion.
Lynn Vavreck, a political scientist at UCLA, argued in “The Message Matters” that a presidential candidate challenging an incumbent during a strong economy must come up with an “insurgent issue” on which to run the campaign. The insurgent issue should have two characteristics. First, the challenger’s position must be more popular than the president’s. Second, the president must be constrained from changing course and adopting the challenger’s position to co-opt the challenger’s advantage.
With the strength of the economy in 2020, Vavreck’s argument suggests that any Democratic nominee needs an insurgent issue to win. The 2018 outcomes make a good case that healthcare could be that insurgent issue. The Democrats’ position is likely to be more popular than President Trump’s, and he is constrained by the Republican effort to repeal the ACA. The healthcare agendas of Democratic winners in 2018 demonstrate the kinds of policy proposals that work with voters in critical swing states.
Seth Hill is an associate professor of political science at UC San Diego and studies how citizens motivate politician behavior.
February 6, 2020 at 1:39 pm #111015
znModeratorBernie doesn’t repel me. I seem to like the guy. But I do get the sense he’s like the Trump for the progressive left. He speaks in great sweeping generalities with little substance in terms of just how to get where he’s headed.
Disagree.
And comparing him to Trump in any way, shape, or form just tells me that you know little if nothing about the guy, PROBABLY because he represents positions which, given your own political preferences, you tend to reject tout courte instead of trying to understand them.
And he appeals to more than “the left,” W. The left are a slim majority in the USA, and Bernie’s appeal is far far broader than that.
February 6, 2020 at 3:11 pm #111018waterfieldParticipantSorry, but your personal attacks don’t cause me any reconsideration of my thoughts on Sanders. I know a LOT more about him than you care to give me credit for. I’ve followed him since his senatorial beginnings and throughout his stance on our involvement in Iraq. In my mind its a simple matter: no matter whether its right or wrong this country is not going to elect someone they “perceive” is a socialist. End of story.
Of course he has a youthful cult following. So did McGovern. IMO younger college voters tend to be attracted to “events”. They march, they protest, they go to gatherings of like minded people. But voting is a single individual effort of driving to a poll and going by oneself into a voting booth to cast a vote. Simply put, many that attend rallies, will not vote-out of some misconceived protest of “the system”.
To me Sanders is as dangerous to this country as Trump, because he will all but insure the most dangerous president this country has ever seen remain in office for another 4 years-and possibly even beyond that. Its fun, exciting, and even inspiring to be part of a ideological “movement” but you have to be careful where that takes you.
February 6, 2020 at 4:09 pm #111023ZooeyModeratorWell, W, there are a lot of media outlets building the parallel between Trump supporters and Sanders supporters. But…how are they meaningfully similar?
Trump supporters are being fed a diet of anger and resentment. While I think Sanders was guilty of yelling at the billionaires too much in 2016, he has changed the tone of that rhetoric, and what I read online by Bernie supporters is really a passionate hunger for economic and environmental justice. They are fired up by a drive for inclusiveness, and support for complete strangers. I don’t think that’s comparable to your characterization of Trump supporters “coming down from the hills,” or whatever you said.
And…I think I understand your fear of the vulnerability of a self-avowed socialist. I see that as a Cold War holdover, though. I’m a teacher. I haven’t seen a kid in 20 years say anything about socialism one way or another. To them, it’s about as scary/dangerous as the Boston Tea Party. Nobody under 40 is worried by the term.
Sanders ranks as the #1 most popular senator in the country.
In all the polls, Sanders fares better against Trump than any other candidate.
IMO, all the hand-wringing over Sanders is caused by a widespread nervousness that he is unleashing the kraken. He is organizing the riff raff, and as president, he will openly encourage union membership and growth. That scares everybody. Honestly, I think the fear that Sanders will beat Trump is generally more widespread than the fear he will lose to Trump.
February 6, 2020 at 6:36 pm #111037Billy_TParticipantThe fear of Sanders is tragic to me, on so many levels. But what strikes me the most, perhaps, is how telling this fear is, basically as a marker for the enormity of capitalism’s triumph and America’s decline.
Sanders’ policies would be seen as “moderate” in the 1960s, or in most of Europe today. He’s asking for a small increase in taxation that would still mean the super-rich pay far less than they did when Ike was prez. From FDR thru Kennedy, the top rate was 91% or higher, and the effective rate was roughly 55%. Sanders isn’t even suggesting 70%, last time I checked, and that was the marginal rate from Johnson thru Carter.
Capitalist propaganda has so thoroughly gaslit Americans, too many see Sanders — a moderate social democrat — as some kind of revolutionary. Again, his policies would be run of the mill even in America a few decades ago, and line up closely to the center of social democratic policies in Europe now.
IMO, Sanders doesn’t go nearly far enough to the left on anything. We need much, much stronger medicine. But, given the situation, he’s a breath of fresh air in a nation with the most reactionary government in the developed world, and he’d at least strive to bring social democratic reforms to the fore here.
Ironically, in a historical sense, Sanders is the “centrist” candidate. The rest of the Dem field is “right-wing,” and Trump and the GOP are ultra-right-wing.
I hope he wins it all, but even if he does, it’s just one of those “first steps.” We’re so far down the neoliberal rabbit hole, it’s only Step One.
February 6, 2020 at 8:08 pm #111039
NewMexicoRamParticipantIt’s been awhile since I’ve posted on this site. And it will be awhile until I post again. But in reading these comments about Trump, the Dems, and the upcoming election, I can only think of one thing: Nikita Khrushchev may have been right. The socialists will bury us. Trump may just be holding off the inevitable for awhile.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 10 months ago by
NewMexicoRam.
February 6, 2020 at 9:27 pm #111042
TSRFParticipantBern, Baby, Bern!
February 6, 2020 at 9:30 pm #111043wvParticipant… But in reading these comments about Trump, the Dems, and the upcoming election, I can only think of one thing: Nikita Khrushchev may have been right. The socialists will bury us….
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If ONLY.
That would be a dream come true for me. 🙂
Mega-Global-Gangster-Corporate-Capitalism is destroying the entire Bio-Sphere….and you are worried about…what?….a National Health Care system that would allow poor people to get the same health wealthy people get?
w
vFebruary 6, 2020 at 9:58 pm #111047Billy_TParticipant… But in reading these comments about Trump, the Dems, and the upcoming election, I can only think of one thing: Nikita Khrushchev may have been right. The socialists will bury us….
=======================
If ONLY.
That would be a dream come true for me. 🙂
Mega-Global-Gangster-Corporate-Capitalism is destroying the entire Bio-Sphere….and you are worried about…what?….a National Health Care system that would allow poor people to get the same health wealthy people get?
w
vAgree with all of that, WV. I don’t get it either. Why the anger and freakout over the possibility that everyone can get health care, and public universities no longer crush students with six-figure debt?
Oh, the horror!!
We’re the richest nation on earth, and we can’t make sure every America can pursue their dreams? We can’t make sure everyone has an equal shot at higher ed and health care? Three Americans now hold as much wealth as the bottom half of this country combined — Sanders said tonight — and that is why we can’t do what any sane nation would do. That’s the reason. You can’t have that kind of obscene inequality and expect a decent society as well. We need to choose.
. . . .
ZN,
Can you check the spam que again? I posted earlier and made the mistake of adding two links to books. Great books. But, apparently the mayor of spam city hates them.
;>)
February 6, 2020 at 10:07 pm #111041Billy_TParticipantIt’s been awhile since I’ve posted on this site. And it will be awhile until I post again. But in reading these comments about Trump, the Dems, and the upcoming election, I can only think of one thing: Nikita Khrushchev may have been right. The socialists will bury us. Trump may just be holding off the inevitable for awhile.
Hey, New Mexico,
Hope all is well.
First off, Kruschev’s comment was mistranslated and taken out of context. He basically said, “We will outlast you.” It wasn’t a threat. It was just a restatement of a belief that capitalism’s internal contradictions would mean it destroys itself over time.
Also, he didn’t speak for “socialists,” most of whom were against the Soviet Union from the start. The USSR was never, ever “socialist” to begin with.
A really excellent recent history of the revolution shows this: October, by China Mieville.
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2731-october
If America ever becomes socialist, it will be a blessing to everyone, including your kids and their kids. It would mean the vision of socialists like MLK, Gandhi, Einstein, Orwell, Camus, the Dalai Lama, Helen Keller, Dorothy Day, Upton Sinclair and Bertrand Russell had finally come to pass. A more recent representation of that vision is Martin Hagglund’s beautiful and profound This Life.
It’s also the only way we save this planet. If we stay with capitalism, we’re doomed. And that’s not hyperbole.
Take care.
February 6, 2020 at 10:09 pm #111051znModeratorZN,
Can you check the spam que again? I posted earlier and made the mistake of adding two links to books. Great books. But, apparently the mayor of spam city hates them.
Got it.
And as usual my fee is modest. We can arrange a payment plan, if need be.
February 7, 2020 at 1:06 pm #111055wvParticipantTrumps approval rating went up a bit, perhaps.
February 7, 2020 at 4:09 pm #111059ZooeyModeratorAlso…I will say…W has a point about the difficulty of getting Sanders over the finish line. The DNC will align against him. They already have. And they aren’t going to grudgingly support him, or even stay neutral if he somehow manages to win the nomination outright.
They will try to “McGovern” him. Sanders is a bigger threat to the Clinton/DNC money machine than Donald Trump is, and if Sanders loses, they will take a short term hit, but be able to wag their fingers at the left for the next 20 years. I fully expect that.
The only question is whether Sanders can overcome the complete opposition of the system, including the entire MSM, and win anyway. Well…Trump did. So… we will see (if he wins the nomination, that is).
February 7, 2020 at 4:59 pm #111060Billy_TParticipantAlso…I will say…W has a point about the difficulty of getting Sanders over the finish line. The DNC will align against him. They already have. And they aren’t going to grudgingly support him, or even stay neutral if he somehow manages to win the nomination outright.
They will try to “McGovern” him. Sanders is a bigger threat to the Clinton/DNC money machine than Donald Trump is, and if Sanders loses, they will take a short term hit, but be able to wag their fingers at the left for the next 20 years. I fully expect that.
The only question is whether Sanders can overcome the complete opposition of the system, including the entire MSM, and win anyway. Well…Trump did. So… we will see (if he wins the nomination, that is).
I agree with most of that, Zooey.
The Dems have a tradition, as you know, of eating their own when it suits them. I have no idea how far back that goes, but Walter Karp, in his classic Liberty Under Siege, talks about how the Dem powers that be sided with Reagan against Carter, if memory serves. Don’t know if anyone’s updated that since 1988, or further back in time than the 1970s . . . but I’m guessing that’s the pattern.
The GOP, OTOH, seems to rally around their nominee, even if they openly trashed him during the primaries.
Just a minor quibble. IMO, the establishment was fine with Trump. They knew he was going to slash their taxes, binge-deregulate and privatize, double down on fossil fuels, and give them the judges they wanted. Early on, he basically telegraphed that he’d turn the nuts and bolts over to his VP and the Heritage Foundation, so they were more than kewl with that. He was actually a dream come true for most of them, except for his potential as a loose cannon, etc. Clinton would have been “safer” for them, but she wouldn’t have been nearly as generous.
Trump was high risk and high reward. HRC was basically no risk but middling reward. I think the Power Elite preferred the former, and still does.
February 7, 2020 at 6:26 pm #111062wvParticipantCourse Trump winning and Bernie Winning are totally different situations.
I mean, Trump really wasnt that out of step with Reps or Corporate-Dems. I mean not really. They were for Deregulation and he went wild with it. He wasnt qualitatively different in my view. Just more extreme. Trump and the Rep/Dems were basically ‘going in the same direction’ — Trump just ramped things up.
Bernie otoh, if he were to somehow get himself elected — would be trying to steer the corporate-vehicle in a completely DIFFERENT direction. He’d be opposed by the Reps AND Dems. WTF would a Bernie presidency even look like, given ‘that’ ugly situation?
w
vFebruary 7, 2020 at 6:33 pm #111063waterfieldParticipantWhy the anger and freakout over the possibility that everyone can get health care, and public universities no longer crush students with six-figure debt?
Billy: its not that people don’t want others to have health care and student debt relief. Its that they don’t want to have to pay for it-either with increased taxes or loss of their personal health care. It doesn’t matter if any of this is true but the Trump machine will make it true to the voters-believe me. We no longer live in a society where-as Kennedy once declared-we should ask ourselves of what we can do for the country. Unfortunately, the Republicans have convinced us that the Country owes us-not the other way around. I won’t vote for Sanders to be the nominee because I believe he will be an easy prey for Trump but if he should become the nominee and wins I will be thrilled because it will -hopefully-be the end of the King. Moreover, I will be thrilled because it will show me that I am wrong about the -its all about me-selfishness of the American people.
It’s my opinion that there is only one person who can go toe to toe against Trump-and not flinch-and that person has yet to even be on the stage with all the others.
February 7, 2020 at 6:34 pm #111064
JackPMillerParticipantI would vote for a pile of dog poop over Trump, if that is the nominee. Just letting you know.
February 7, 2020 at 6:49 pm #111067ZooeyModeratorGiven ‘that’ ugly situation, I think Sanders is a prime candidate to lose his life to a Lone Wolf.
February 7, 2020 at 9:51 pm #111076wvParticipantGiven ‘that’ ugly situation, I think Sanders is a prime candidate to lose his life to a Lone Wolf.
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Well perhaps then, our DNC-Reptile-Overlords are looking for a way to have Joe Biden be Bernies VICE-Prezidential running mate.
w
vFebruary 7, 2020 at 10:11 pm #111061waterfieldParticipant… But in reading these comments about Trump, the Dems, and the upcoming election, I can only think of one thing: Nikita Khrushchev may have been right. The socialists will bury us….
=======================
If ONLY.
That would be a dream come true for me. 🙂
Mega-Global-Gangster-Corporate-Capitalism is destroying the entire Bio-Sphere….and you are worried about…what?….a National Health Care system that would allow poor people to get the same health wealthy people get?
w
vAgree with all of that, WV. I don’t get it either. Why the anger and freakout over the possibility that everyone can get health care, and public universities no longer crush students with six-figure debt?
Oh, the horror!!
We’re the richest nation on earth, and we can’t make sure every America can pursue their dreams? We can’t make sure everyone has an equal shot at higher ed and health care? Three Americans now hold as much wealth as the bottom half of this country combined — Sanders said tonight — and that is why we can’t do what any sane nation would do. That’s the reason. You can’t have that kind of obscene inequality and expect a decent society as well. We need to choose.
. . . .
ZN,
Can you check the spam que again? I posted earlier and made the mistake of adding two links to books. Great books. But, apparently the mayor of spam city hates them.
;>)
” Why the anger and freakout over the possibility that everyone can get health care, and public universities no longer crush students with six-figure debt?”
Billy: It’s not that “they” are angry over people getting health care or student debt relief. It’s that they “believe” they will have to pay for it-either in tax increases or in losing their own private doctors and care. It doesn’t matter that they may or may not be right but that is how the Trump machine will force them to look at it-his way. I keep harping back to Kennedy’s innauguration
February 8, 2020 at 12:24 am #111085ZooeyModeratorBilly: It’s not that “they” are angry over people getting health care or student debt relief. It’s that they “believe” they will have to pay for it-either in tax increases or in losing their own private doctors and care. It doesn’t matter that they may or may not be right but that is how the Trump machine will force them to look at it-his way. I keep harping back to Kennedy’s innauguration
Throughout this thread, W, you keep wringing your hands over how OTHER people will perceive it.
Take a stance.
And work to make people understand it.
February 8, 2020 at 9:05 am #111087wvParticipantBilly: It’s not that “they” are angry over people getting health care or student debt relief. It’s that they “believe” they will have to pay for it-either in tax increases or in losing their own private doctors and care. It doesn’t matter that they may or may not be right but that is how the Trump machine will force them to look at it-his way. I keep harping back to Kennedy’s innauguration
Throughout this thread, W, you keep wringing your hands over how OTHER people will perceive it.
Take a stance.
And work to make people understand it.
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Well when W is talking about THE VOTERS, I think his stance is that Bernie is UNelectable, Because a critical mass of voters are too conservative to vote for him.
I’m not sure he’s ever made it clear what HE
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thinks of Bernie.
w
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