Trump vs Hillary II

wv wrote:

Anybody watch the second debate?

Apparently CNN thinks Trump didnt win any new converts.

http://wtvr.com/2016/10/09/poll-who-won-2nd-presidential-debate-between-trump-and-clinton-st-louis/

“..Donald Trump exceeded expectations, but Hillary Clinton won the second presidential debate, according to a CNN / ORC poll of debate watchers. The results showed a clear victory for Clinton, with 57% saying Clinton won, as opposed to 34% for Donald Trump. It’s a strong showing for Clinton, but not as good as her performance at the first presidential debate, when 62% of debate watchers said she won. The results Sunday also track closely with watchers’ pre-debate preference. Fifty-eight percent of debate watchers said they were supporting Clinton before the debate…”

——–

w
v

I did. Am embarrassed to admit it. But I did. It was a circus, and showed American politics at its worst — or close to it. No other candidate could get away with doing what Trump did before and during the debate, but it appears he has. I’ve never seen such a spectacle — bringing together a group of (four) women who accused the spouse of one’s opponent of a range of sexual predations, from rape to harassment. An eleventh hour move to deflect from Trump’s own admittance of sexual assault.

Basically, “But mommy, mommy!! Joey did it too!! Waaaahhhgh!”

(Yes, Bill Clinton was a pig, and a terrible and all too conservative president. But he’s not running this time.)

Many of the talking heads this morning are saying it worked. But the most bizarre thing (IMO) is that no one is talking about the elephant in the room: Trump’s incredible incoherence throughout. When they become available, people should read the transcripts, because Trump spoke gibberish for nearly 90 minutes, and never answered any questions, went off on tangents within tangents, and made Sarah Palin sound like Cicero in comparison. I found myself yelling at the TV, asking him to say how he would accomplish all of these amazing things he promised. He never did, and hasn’t ever during this entire campaign.

How would he give America those rainbows and unicorns he promises?

All Trump does is talk about the living hell in place, but never says how he’d fix anything. Drives me up the wall, and it makes it all the worse that no talking head seems to care.

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by Billy_T.

Since I believe that the election is finite, I truly suspect that Trumps latest performance was primarily about priming the pump(his loyal supporters) for the new Trump media empire that’s sure to magically spring up after Hillary wins the election.

Trump has a large batch of humans in his pocket that he’ll continue to exploit until he wears them out. His initial message will be to bag on Clinton and any other non right wingers(both republicans and democrats) for the next 4 years buoyed by these loyal supporters who constantly will need to be led. He can go from KKK meeting to Aryan nation webcast to Trump fund raisers for ever – talking, snorting, lying, lurking about, hurling insults, spouting nonsensical bullshit that Bannon’s team of degenerates feed him. Location, location, location was the mantra of the real estate shyster. Now it’s onto ratings, ratings, ratings. He’ll have Ailes and Breitbart boy at his beck and call.

He could give a shit less about helping anybody or real people in America and families and kids – he cares about money. That’s his honey. He wants it all.

sdram wrote:

Since I believe that the election is finite, I truly suspect that Trumps latest performance was primarily about priming the pump(his loyal supporters) for the new Trump media empire that’s sure to magically spring up after Hillary wins the election.

Trump has a large batch of humans in his pocket that he’ll continue to exploit until he wears them out. His initial message will be to bag on Clinton and any other non right wingers(both republicans and democrats) for the next 4 years buoyed by these loyal supporters who constantly will need to be led. He can go from KKK meeting to Aryan nation webcast to Trump fund raisers for ever – talking, snorting, lying, lurking about, hurling insults, spouting nonsensical bullshit that Bannon’s team of degenerates feed him. Location, location, location was the mantra of the real estate shyster. Now it’s onto ratings, ratings, ratings. He’ll have Ailes and Breitbart boy at his beck and call.

He could give a shit less about helping anybody or real people in America and families and kids – he cares about money. That’s his honey. He wants it all.

Well said.

It’s too bizarre for words that he has any backers. He’s rarely anything but incoherent, and when he speak coherently, it’s always thuggish and vile.

Amazing thing about his supporters. They hold too conflicting things in their head at the same time without a care: They say they love him because he “tells it like it is.” But when confronted with something he has said that is obscenely ugly, racist, misogynist, xenophobic, etc. etc. they say he didn’t really mean it.

I used to think Ron Paul fans were the most oblivious to reality and the most obnoxiously diehard. But Trump supporters, in general, are worse.

zn wrote:

wv wrote:

…is there a word for… when things get so surreal that surrealizm gets ‘normalized’ ?

Yeah I know. Surreal isn’t it.

German is really great at hybrid words. Makes it nearly impossible to translate, especially German poetry — and “poetic” kinds of philosophy, like Heidegger’s. But they have words for stuff we just don’t have in English, oddly enough — the Angles and Saxons being from what would later be Germany, etc.

Anyway, so we probably have to stick with multiple words to describe such a thing. Perhaps “the domesticated uncanny”? “The everyday bizarre”? “Disciplined stranginess”?

The usual caveat: Both candidates are awful. But Trump is beyond vile, despicable and grotesque. He used those women, exploited them, for his own miserable political gain, to deflect from his own admittance that he is a serial sexual predator:

The facts about Hillary Clinton and the Kathy Shelton rape case By Glenn Kessler October 11 at 3:00 AM

Excerpts:

The Facts

In 1975, Clinton — then Hillary Rodham — was a 27-year-old law professor running a legal aid clinic at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville. After a 41-year-old factory worker was accused of raping a 12-year-old girl, he asked the judge to replace his court-appointed male attorney with a female one. The judge went through the list of a half-dozen women practicing law in the county and picked Clinton. She has said she was not thrilled with the assignment but felt she had little choice but to take the court appointment — which the prosecutor in the case confirmed to CNN.

Court records describe a sad tale. Shelton, at the time 12 years old, went out for a late-night drive with Tom Taylor, then 41, a 20-year-old cousin, and a 15-year-old boy with whom she was apparently infatuated. They bought a pint of Old Grand-Dad whisky, which was mixed with Coca-Cola for Shelton. After hanging out at a bowling alley for a few hours, they allegedly drove to a ravine where the two older men left Shelton and the 15-year-old together. The two then had sex, the boy told police. After they were finished, Taylor approached the truck and apparently attacked Shelton. The boy reported that Shelton screamed and he saw Taylor hitching up his pants.

As part of her handling of the case, Clinton filed an affidavit July 28, 1975, requesting that the girl go through a psychiatric examination. “I have been informed that the complainant is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing,” Clinton said. “I have also been informed that she has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body. Also that she exhibits an unusual stubbornness and temper when she does not get her way.”

Clinton offered no source for the claims.

When Glenn Thrush, then a reporter for Newsday, showed the affidavit to Shelton in 2007, he wrote that she was visibly stunned. “It kind of shocks me – it’s not true,” she said. “I never said anybody attacked my body before, never in my life.”

But Shelton told Thrush at the time that she bore no ill will toward Clinton. “I have to understand that she was representing Taylor,” she said. “I’m sure Hillary was just doing her job.”

But in 2014, Shelton told the Daily Beast that she had been misquoted. “Hillary Clinton took me through hell,” she said.

Shelton’s ire had risen with the 2014 discovery of previously unpublished audio recordings of Clinton discussing the case in the mid-1980s with Arkansas reporter Roy Reed for an article that was never published.

In the recorded interview, Clinton is heard laughing or giggling four times when discussing the case with unusual candor; the reporter is also heard laughing, and sometimes Clinton is responding to him.

For instance, Clinton laughed after she said: “Of course he [the defendant] claimed he didn’t [rape]. All this stuff. He took a lie-detector test. I had him take a polygraph, which he passed, which forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs.”

The Daily Beast article said:

The victim was put through several forensic procedures, including a lie detector test. At first, she failed the lie detector test; she said that was because she didn’t understand one of the specific sex-related questions. Once that question was explained to her, she passed, she said. The victim positively identified her two attackers through one-way glass and they were arrested.

In an interview with the Daily Mail that appeared Aug. 9, Shelton agreed for the first time to be identified by name. This article strongly suggested that the psychiatric examination took place:

Although Clinton’s legal maneuver would likely be prohibited today under Arkansas rape shield act, the law was not passed until two years after the case.

Shelton said one of her worst memories of the case was being questioned repeatedly by appointed experts.

“It got so bad that I told my mom I wasn’t going back, and whatever happened, happened,” said Shelton. “It’s sad that a 12-year-old had to go through what I had to go through, because for days I cried and cried and cried over it.”

The gofundme site, which was established Aug. 13 and seeks to raise $10,000, quotes Shelton as explicitly saying that the test took place: “Hillary then began to attack my character, forcing me to undergo multiple polygraph tests where I was asked explicit sexual questions I didn’t even understand. Next I was sent for a psychiatric examination. It felt like I was the one on trial.”

But the court docket, unearthed by Pittsburgh attorney Norma Chase and for the first time made public, shows that one day after Clinton filed a request for psychiatric exam, it was denied by the judge. The court docket for July 28 says Clinton filed her motion for an exam. On July 29, it states: “Hearing on Motion for Psychiatric Examination — Motion denied. Defendant objects.” (There is also no evidence that Clinton was responsible for arranging Chase’s polygraph test.)

Here’s the docket sheet:

Thanks primarily to Trump, but also to the Dems’ insistence that it had to be HRC, American politics has fallen to lows we haven’t seen in more than a century.

Neither party should be in power. Neither party has earned the right to govern. And anyone who thinks Trump is the answer to this mess has lost their freakin’ mind. He and his party are a huge reason why things are so screwed up in the first place. The GOP is the dirty tricks party, and has decided to spend all of their time investigating Dems rather than solving any problems, all the while blaming the Dems for every evil in the world.