Trump is encouraging (armed) voter intimidation.

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  • #55286
    Billy_T
    Participant

    He has long talked about “second amendment people,” and has engaged is apocalyptic language about the election being stolen from him by a global conspiracy. He has asked his supporters to watch the polls to make sure the “election isn’t stolen from us.”

    In Charlottesville, we recently saw preview of what this means:

    There Are Now Armed Men Trying to Intimidate Campaign Volunteers Guess who they’re voting for.

    By Charles P. Pierce
    Oct 14, 2016

    6.1k

    Once again, economic insecurity manifests itself in so many strange ways. From CBS19 in Charlottesville, Virginia:

    The protester, Daniel Parks, says that he hopes his protest encourages other Trump supporters to stand up for what they believe in. “I’m just trying to provide a voice for someone who might be a closet supporter of Trump. Other people who are a little worried to speak out because of possible persecution,” he said. Parks stood outside the offices for almost 12 hours. Dittmar volunteers say that the protest was disturbing. “If he wants to support his candidate that’s fine, but don’t come here and stare into the office all day,” said Su Wolff, a Fluvanna County resident and Dittmar volunteer. Parks was eventually joined by another protester, and Wolff said that the most troubling part of the protest was that both of them started to expose their firearms. “He turned sideways to be sure that we would see that he has an open carry gun, which is legal, and is fine, but it’s intimidating,” she said.

    This clown is in a strip mall, outside an office in which people are doing nothing more deadly than stuffing envelopes, but he’s the one who’s being persecuted, so he needs to keep his shootin’ ‘arn close at hand in the event that a lady with blue hair comes at him with a stamped envelope. (Or fresh fruit.) We will be lucky to get through this election without somebody getting shot.

    (h/t to Talking Points Memo for, well, pointing the way.)

    #55289
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Just think about this for a second. In rural, semi-rural and suburban areas, especially, where blacks and Latinos may be minorities — even tiny minorities — how many PoCs will decide to walk away from polling places at the sight of armed white men (and women)? How many will hear about this happening and decide it’s just not worth the risk to vote?

    Trump has long been auditioning to be Il Duce. His latest rants, in the wake of being outed as a serial sexual predator, amount to full on fascism. Classic fascism, complete paranoid delusions, conspiracy theories and his brown shirts targeting people of color and other minorities.

    As bad as Hillary and the Dems are, they just can’t compete with Trump and the GOP when it comes to lies, vileness and horrifically bad policies. Trump and the GOP have taken our politics to new lows and I don’t know if this country will ever recover from it.

    #55290
    bnw
    Blocked

    Can’t let Trump supporters exercise their free speech.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #55292
    Billy_T
    Participant

    This clown is in a strip mall, outside an office in which people are doing nothing more deadly than stuffing envelopes, but he’s the one who’s being persecuted, so he needs to keep his shootin’ ‘arn close at hand in the event that a lady with blue hair comes at him with a stamped envelope. (Or fresh fruit.) We will be lucky to get through this election without somebody getting shot.

    This part is important. “Free speech” doesn’t require being armed. In fact, when you arm yourself and then try to say you’re just supporting your candidate, no intelligent adult is going to believe you. We’re all going to know that you’re trying to frighten people out of utilizing their “free speech rights.” And we all know you know that too.

    Just as money doesn’t equal speech, guns don’t equal speech. Unless you’re a fascist.

    #55294
    bnw
    Blocked

    This clown is in a strip mall, outside an office in which people are doing nothing more deadly than stuffing envelopes, but he’s the one who’s being persecuted, so he needs to keep his shootin’ ‘arn close at hand in the event that a lady with blue hair comes at him with a stamped envelope. (Or fresh fruit.) We will be lucky to get through this election without somebody getting shot.

    This part is important. “Free speech” doesn’t require being armed. In fact, when you arm yourself and then try to say you’re just supporting your candidate, no intelligent adult is going to believe you. We’re all going to know that you’re trying to frighten people out of utilizing their “free speech rights.” And we all know you know that too.

    Just as money doesn’t equal speech, guns don’t equal speech. Unless you’re a fascist.

    Yet they are following the law. That is the difference. Hildabeast and her supporters are cool with breaking the law because they know they always get a pass.

    The only fascists are those on the left that attack Trump supporters.

    • This reply was modified 8 years ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #55296
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Yeah, it’s obvious he’s doing it to intimidate minorities.

    Guns aren’t allowed in Federal buildings. They shouldn’t be allowed at the polls during Federal elections.

    #55301
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Yeah, it’s obvious he’s doing it to intimidate minorities.

    Guns aren’t allowed in Federal buildings. They shouldn’t be allowed at the polls during Federal elections.

    Agreed, Nittany.

    But this is pretty much the only way Trump gets elected: massive voter suppression. And he knows this, and the leaders of the GOP know it too.

    If every eligible voter gets to cast their vote unimpeded, Trump loses by a ton.

    On a side note (probably deserves a separate thread): You should listen to this Science Friday episode from yesterday, if you missed it. Right up your alley:

    October 14, 2016 How subpoenas, lawsuits, and even Freedom of Information Act requests can look and feel like harassment to scientists. Plus, why do digital assistants like Siri often seem so unintelligent?

    excerpt:

    After furor erupted over a video seeming to imply that Planned Parenthood was selling fetal tissue to research institutions, the House of Representatives Committee on Energy and Commerce convened a select investigative panel to examine practices involving fetal tissue in late 2015. Since then, the panel, chaired by Tennessee Republican Marsha Blackburn, has issued subpoenas to more than 80 individual researchers, institutions, and companies involved in research on fetal tissue or its procurement.

    The scientific community has said these subpoenas threaten researchers’ time, energy, and reputations, and that other activities by the committee—such as making public the names and addresses of researchers who use fetal tissue—could endanger those researchers’ lives. In May, an editorial in Nature Biotechnology called this panel “a witchhunt” by the anti-abortion lobby.

    (Science Friday offered Representative Blackburn’s office a chance to respond to these criticisms. As of this article’s publication, we have not received a statement.)

    University of Pittsburgh virologist Carolyn Coyne talks about the danger the new frenzy over fetal tissue research could have, and why this research is vital. As one example, it could help us better understand and prevent the spread of Zika virus. And Eugene Gu, whose company Ganogen has been subject to one of these subpoenas, describes the burden that congressional attention can put on scientists. In his post as a surgical resident, for instance, his research has been on hold for more than a year.

    Then, we take a look at other fields that have come into the crosshairs, particularly climate science, with a scientist who knows the problem well.

    As a postgraduate researcher in 1999, climate scientist Michael Mann was a co-author on the paper that produced the now-infamous “hockey stick” graph. It indicated that global warming is happening faster than previously in history. That publication has given him attention and notoriety, not all of it good: He’s been compared to convicted child molester Jerry Sandusky and been subjected to lawsuits, and the state of Virginia tried to obtain his academic correspondence through a large Freedom of Information Act request. He was also one of the scientists whose e-mails were hacked and released in the 2009 “Climategate.” What’s more, he’s received numerous e-mails and other communications that he considers harassment.

    Man is also the co-author of a new book that discusses the challenges facing those who talk openly about climate research, and he says that lawsuits, subpoenas, and other scrutiny serve only to intimidate and exhaust scientists, such as the NOAA researchers who received subpoenas from House Science Committee Chair Lamar Smith (R-Texas) in late 2015. Mann and Climate Science Legal Defense Fund executive director Lauren Kurtz share their experiences in the legal world of science and discuss how researchers can protect themselves from burdensome attention.

    These are some tweets we received from scientists on Twitter about other kinds of harassment they’ve experienced.

    #55303
    Billy_T
    Participant

    The main radio article, via soundcloud:

    #55304
    PA Ram
    Participant

    And after all that–if he loses, these people will not accept it. They will want a revolution.

    And the guy who should be calming them? I don’t know he has it in him.

    Pence calls for restraint will be whispers in the wind.

    I would hope that Trump comes to his senses and tries to back some of this down–but I just can’t see it.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #55305
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Thanks Billy. I caught part of that on NPR yesterday.

    It’s scary that scientists are being harassed and threatened by powerful individuals/groups who might not like what they find. They want propaganda and politics to shape public opinion instead of data and hard evidence. The program mentioned fetal tissue and climate science but it is also happening to researchers investigating gun violence.

    Anyway, there is something seriously wrong with a system that allows someone like Lamar Smith to chair the House Science Committee. That’s like putting Joseph Goebbels in charge of a Jewish charity.

    #55306
    Billy_T
    Participant

    And after all that–if he loses, these people will not accept it. They will want a revolution.

    And the guy who should be calming them? I don’t know he has it in him.

    Pence calls for restraint will be whispers in the wind.

    I would hope that Trump comes to his senses and tries to back some of this down–but I just can’t see it.

    He gets his brownshirts frothing mad with calls of “lock her up!” and so on. This is the first election in my lifetime where one of the candidates says he will jail the other if he wins. Prior to that, he’s all but called for her assassination by “second amendment people,” and he and his campaign team have egged on the Russians to launch cyberattacks, which may well mean screwing with vote totals.

    All the while, he’s pushing this absurd persecution (complex) meme that everyone is supposedly out to get him, and his fanboys eat that up. It syncs up with their own sense of persecution and victimization as supposedly besieged white Christian males.

    A toxic brew of racism, xenophobia, persecution complexes, misogyny and nationalism that is self-evidently reminiscent of Hitler’s Germany. The parallels are unmistakable, in my view.

    #55307
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Thanks Billy. I caught part of that on NPR yesterday.

    It’s scary that scientists are being harassed and threatened by powerful individuals/groups who might not like what they find. They want propaganda and politics to shape public opinion instead of data and hard evidence. The program mentioned fetal tissue and climate science but it is also happening to researchers investigating gun violence.

    Anyway, there is something seriously wrong with a system that allows someone like Lamar Smith to chair the House Science Committee. That’s like putting Joseph Goebbels in charge of a Jewish charity.

    Very true. How did we sink to this place?

    Smith is, of course, not alone. Remember Paul Broun?

    Republican congressman Paul Broun dismisses evolution and other theories

    A Republican congressman who sits on the science committee of the House of Representatives has dismissed evolution, the Big Bang theory and embryology as “lies straight from the pit of hell”.

    Paul Broun, who is running for re-election as Georgia representative this November unopposed by Democrats, made the comments during a speech at a baptist church last month. A videoclip of the event was posted on YouTube on Friday.

    I’m sick to death of both parties and think they both suck. But the Dems, with few exceptions, at least accept scientific findings and respect the work of scientists. The GOP is adamantly opposed to them, on behalf of their corporate masters — as you mention, on guns, too. Climate change, guns, evolution, biology, fetal tissue research, etc. etc.

    It’s stunning that so many absolutely ignorant and destructive people are in charge of all too much of our government, and abuse their privileges to the max.

    #55322
    Zooey
    Moderator

    He gets his brownshirts frothing mad with calls of “lock her up!” and so on. This is the first election in my lifetime where one of the candidates says he will jail the other if he wins. Prior to that, he’s all but called for her assassination by “second amendment people,” and he and his campaign team have egged on the Russians to launch cyberattacks, which may well mean screwing with vote totals.

    All the while, he’s pushing this absurd persecution (complex) meme that everyone is supposedly out to get him, and his fanboys eat that up. It syncs up with their own sense of persecution and victimization as supposedly besieged white Christian males.

    A toxic brew of racism, xenophobia, persecution complexes, misogyny and nationalism that is self-evidently reminiscent of Hitler’s Germany. The parallels are unmistakable, in my view.

    I hate to admit this, but the damage is done. IMO, civility is a tacit agreement that is very fragile in a society, and when it is compromised, I think it is an extremely tall task to restore it.

    As an analogy, money is actually worthless, right? Our entire society depends upon the agreed illusion that those small sheets of paper actually have value. Which they don’t. Except by consensual agreement. Right? Really, without our agreement, a slice of bread has more value than $100 bill. I can’t eat that $100 bill, it is useless as a heating source. Etc.

    Likewise, I believe our political society depends upon a gentleman’s agreement. And the tacit rules that underwrite our written rules (laws) have been eroding since the right wing noise machine was born. Trump, I think, has killed it. That his absolutely disgraceful behavior is accepted – and championed – by millions of people is very bad news. We may have all been distressed over the years at the way mud-slinging has become so prominent in our political life, but the bar hasn’t just been lowered, it’s been completely knocked aside.

    Millions of people in this country are serious about electing a total lout. And I don’t think that barrier, now broken, is going to be restored. Trump has already seriously damaged this country, and it is just the beginning.

    #55328
    PA Ram
    Participant

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

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