Trump gets slammed for Helsinki

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  • July 19, 2018 at 10:39 am #88303
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    zn wrote:

    “accused”

    ===========
    “So a dictator who has been accused of systematically killing his opponents asked us to extradite two of our citizens so he can “talk” to them or possibly try them because they spoke out against him. And we didn’t immediately say no? WTH is going on? What do we stand for?” Jason Cole

    So ‘accusations’ amount to proof now? And who is this “us” he’s referring to? Would that be the “us” that systematically kills opponents with drone-murders without due process on a weekly basis?

    w
    v

    July 19, 2018 at 10:48 am #88304
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    Zooey wrote:

    And Putin… wants to continue to disrupt American civilization, and weaken our world standing, and he’s going to keep doing that. A big shitstorm, constitutional crisis works just fine for him. He’s a winner either way. Trump keeps fucking shit up as he has been doing, or he cripples the government’s ability to keep their eye on the ball at all because it is undergoing a governmental crisis.”

    ———————–

    Well then Putin and I want prettymuch the same thing 🙂

    I mean i like what RT reports on. I dont care what their ‘motives’ are, they tell more truth in 30 minutes than the American-MSM tells in a decade.

    At any rate, the nation is so divided now, even if you took ‘russian interference’ or russian media’ out of the mix, there’d still be a growing shitstorm.

    I think. I dunno.

    As Noam always notes, all the surveys indicate the WORLD considers the USA the biggest threat to peace on the planet. Russia didnt cause that. Putin had nothing to do with that.

    w
    v

    July 19, 2018 at 10:57 am #88307
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator
    wv wrote:
    zn wrote:

    “accused”

    ===========
    “So a dictator who has been accused of systematically killing his opponents asked us to extradite two of our citizens so he can “talk” to them or possibly try them because they spoke out against him. And we didn’t immediately say no? WTH is going on? What do we stand for?” Jason Cole

    So ‘accusations’ amount to proof now? And who is this “us” he’s referring to? Would that be the “us” that systematically kills opponents with drone-murders without due process on a weekly basis?

    w
    v

    That’s semantics. Dissidents opposed to the Putin regime end up dead. Either he runs too loose a ship where subordinates just go on killing sprees which coincidentally take the lives of Putin’s critics, or (more likely) he knows about it. He’s culpable either way. In specific cases the actual individual who did the poisoning is known and the details are clear.

    I am really not interested in giving this monster the benefit of the doubt. Or debating his “rights.” It strikes me as macabre to even engage in it.

    As I said I don’t live in a glass house so I get to throw all the stones I need to. I didn’t do anything, american governments I opposed (and oppose) did things. So I throw my stones freely. Doesn’t matter to me if it’s Trump, Netanyahu, Pinochet, the Shah, Kissinger, or Putin.

    Coming to Putin’s defense is just not high on the list of noble things we accomplished on this board. As an old friend and ally I wish you would reconsider that whole thing.

    .

    July 19, 2018 at 11:27 am #88309
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    ZN,

    Thanks for bringing up one of the most appalling aspects of the Helsinki meeting. Trump actually supports — if we take him at his word — turning over dissidents and critics of the Putin regime, to Putin. One being the former ambassador, McFaul, and the other being Crowder, whom Putin has long tried to kill.

    (I may not have this right, but I think it’s eleven people total so far.)

    Outrage erupts over Trump-Putin ‘conversation’ about letting Russia interrogate ex-U.S. diplomat Michael McFaul

    This is a key video, IMO. This state department spokesperson likely isn’t going to last at that position much longer, given her words and her independence. She strikes me as a very brave person and I’m pulling for her.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 4 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    July 19, 2018 at 11:32 am #88310
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    WV,

    Side-note on earlier comments. Please don’t take my sometimes annoying persistence on these issues as anything personal. It’s not. It’s me being incredibly frustrated by external events. Not with you. Not with anyone here. No way, no how.

    Knowing I have zero control over them just makes it all the worse for wear. This is just me trying to get myself out of dark places via various means at hand. One of them is the Internet and forums like this.

    July 19, 2018 at 12:03 pm #88312
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator
    wv wrote:

    As Noam always notes, all the surveys indicate the WORLD considers the USA the biggest threat to peace on the planet. Russia didnt cause that. Putin had nothing to do with that.

    There is more than one threat to the world, and imperialism always consisted of competing empires. The world does not gain from Russia gaining at the USA’s expense, that’s like making Dutch Schultz the attorney general to get rid of Capone.

    The world benefits from the truth being told about ALL of them and of ALL the autocrats being resisted. Not from giving one of them a free pass.

    And Putin has a lot to do with all the awful things Putin does. Notice he’s not the leader of a global revolution. He’s as hated as any auotcrat with power.

    …

    …

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