Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › this week's Goff commentaries
- This topic has 14 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 1 month ago by zn.
-
AuthorPosts
-
September 29, 2016 at 2:23 am #54086znModerator
Here’s when you can expect to see Jared Goff and Colin Kaepernick
It’s only a matter of time before the Rams and 49ers make QB switcheshttp://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-when-you-can-expect-to-see-jared-goff-and-colin-kaepernick/
It’s a matter of when, and not if, the Rams and 49ers make changes at quarterback. And while neither coach will provide a timetable of any sort, there are some looming natural guideposts that could indicate when the inevitable changes are made.
Los Angeles is off to a 2-1 start and it’s clear that Jeff Fisher is in no hurry to play first-overall pick Jared Goff. He’s very much living in the moment with this team and trying to win with veteran Case Keenum and stay relevant in the NFC. But this team still has major flaws, and the Rams aren’t going to be good enough to justify Goff redshirting an entire season — especially not in a year in which a record number of first-time starters continue to take the field with increasing success each week.
The Rams play three of their next five games at “home” — they host the Giants in London for one of those games, which merely requires flying cross country and then across the Atlantic as well. Then they have their bye week before hosting Carolina. If the Rams are still hanging around the periphery of the playoff picture by midseason, then maybe Fisher can hold off making the switch. But the limitations in the current offense have already been exposed and the execs I talk to believe that staff will have a hard time continuing to sell Keenum over Goff by the time they get back from England.
Things are a little more complicated in San Francisco given the stand that backup Colin Kaepernick has made after already having a complicated relationship with the front office. He’s getting immense support from coach Chip Kelly for taking a stand against social injustice and police brutality and sources say he has continued to receive strong support inside the locker room for that as well, but there remain concerns about whether he can succeed as the starting quarterback there again. He still needs to re-establish some on-field trust with his teammates and continue to get into playing shape after undergoing three significant surgeries.Jared Goff could be the Rams starter by the time the team returns from England. USATSI
It’s safe to say there is some trepidation about how Kaepernick might respond to getting a chance to start again — which I was a little surprised to detect given how well he played at one point. The degree to which the quarterback became detached from his teammates creates some fissures that apparently still have not been entirely smoothed over. But Kelly also knows that, if he’s fit, Kaepernick possesses many of the traits he looks for in a quarterback. He certainly is an athletic talent when healthy and what Blaine Gabbert is putting on film thus far has been fairly putrid.
Gabbert has done nothing to inspire any faith through three weeks. It’s been ugly. He is completing just 55 percent of his passes despite being in a system in which he’s being asked to do virtually nothing in terms of difficult throws downfield. Kelly’s play-calling is catering to Gabbert to accentuate accuracy, yet Gabbert often can’t complete a simple screen pass. To that point, he is averaging just 5.5 yards per attempt — again, this is dink-and-dunk stuff by and large — and he has just 532 yards for the season. His quarterback rating is just 68.6.
The 49ers splurged to land big-play speed receiver Torrey Smith before the 2015 season, but he is horribly miscast with Gabbert at the helm. Smith has caught just eight balls all season, averaging just 12.9 yards per attempt, with no gain of even 30 yards yet. No receiver on the roster has even 115 yards for the season. Getting Kaepernick on the field gives them a better rushing option and Kaepernick has no problem getting the ball deep down the field. Kaepernick has, in his career, also displayed an ability to play the quarterback position when at his best that Gabbert has never come close to approaching.
So, when does Kelly make the move?
Well, the 49ers play two home games in a five-day span, hosting the Cowboys Sunday and then the Cardinals the following Thursday. If Gabbert continues to be Gabbert, with the extended break before the 49ers play in Week 6, Kelly will be under mounting pressure to make a change by then. The 49ers are having difficulty drawing fans, the offense has been mostly a failure and Kaepernick is going to get his shot to play again.September 29, 2016 at 2:30 am #54087znModeratorJared Goff’s slow progress with Rams reminds Arizona’s Carson Palmer of his own long wait
JACK WANG
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/palmer-730500-season-goff.html
Thirteen years ago, Carson Palmer sat and waited.
He had been the No. 1 overall pick in the 2003 draft, the Heisman winner out of USC, and the best hope for the Cincinnati Bengals to turn themselves around from a run of 11 losing records in 12 seasons.
And still, he sat and waited. Through his entire rookie season, the quarterback never appeared in a game. Instead, the Bengals took a slower route with Palmer’s development, letting Jon Kitna mentor him while the team waddled its way to an 8-8 record.
More than a decade later, the Rams are doing the same with top-drafted quarterback Jared Goff, plopping him on the bench while journeyman Case Keenum tries to turn around what has been one of the league’s most anemic offenses.
This Sunday at University of Phoenix Stadium, when the Cardinals host the Rams, Palmer will stand within sight of Goff – at once a symbol of what could lie ahead, and of a more patient, bygone era.
In the early 2000s, it was not at all out of style to sit rookie quarterbacks. Even on the day of the draft, there was little expectation that Palmer would contribute immediately.
But Goff, who has yet to appear in an NFL regular-season game, is now a glaring exception, becoming the first top-drafted quarterback not to start a season opener since Jamarcus Russell in 2007. Not only that, four other rookies have already been thrown into the fire this season, the best of whom is No. 2 overall pick Carson Wentz, who has led the Eagles to a 3-0 start.
This youth movement around the league has not changed Jeff Fisher’s approach with Goff, who struggled in the preseason.
“I’m happy for young quarterbacks when they have success,” the Rams coach said this week, “but we have our own sense of timing here with him.”
Fisher added that the four others have been thrust into action due to injuries, whether on their team or elsewhere. Wentz moved up to first string after Philadelphia traded Sam Bradford to the Vikings, who had lost Teddy Bridgewater to a dislocated knee and torn ACL. Dak Prescott (Cowboys), Jacoby Brissett (Patriots) and Cody Kessler (Browns) – all of whom were either third- or fourth-round picks this spring – have been injury replacements.
Palmer seems inclined to side with Fisher. “You either throw the guy in there or you let him sit back and rest,” he said Wednesday. “Only the coaches know what’s going on within the building, know what’s best for the team.”
That Palmer waited a full year to start certainly did not hurt his career. The Santa Margarita High graduate made back-to-back Pro Bowls in 2005 and 2006, and won an AFC North title. A severe knee injury set him back, but after an acrimonious split with the Bengals and an unproductive stint in Oakland, Palmer staged a comeback last season by providing MVP-caliber play for Arizona.
The Cardinals have stumbled out of the gate this season, losing two of their first three games despite being one of the preseason favorites to reach the Super Bowl. But Palmer, whom Arizona’s Bruce Arians described as the most “resilient guy that I’ve ever coached,” has seen it all already.
He was also 24 years old when he made his first NFL start. Goff is still two weeks shy of 22.
Sitting out his first year, Palmer said, gave him a chance to learn the ropes.
“You have a chance to watch how this league is – how you prepare as a starter, how you go about your business as a starter, especially if you’re coming from a very non-pro style offense,” Palmer said. “Seeing how offenses prepare, seeing the different pressures you’re going to see and the different defenses you’re going to see.
“It’s tough if you’re not ready and you get thrown in there. If you struggle, it can linger.”
September 29, 2016 at 7:33 am #54089wvParticipantTo me this comes down to whether you think Fisher and his offensive coaches are Idiots,
or not. I mean, Fisher and his coaches see the kid every day, And they see Keenum every day.Its just not an issue to me, yet.
w
vSeptember 29, 2016 at 8:48 am #54091InvaderRamModeratori think fisher knows what he’s doing. he did a good job with mcnair. and i think fisher has a genuine like for goff unlike young who was forced on him.
as zn and others have pointed out he’s not only done this with qbs, he’s done this with guys like donald and quinn. and to a certain extent gurley although it could be argued that gurley sat out because he was recovering from the acl injury. and while those guys still played on a part time basis you can’t do that at qb.
this is his mo. if goff is who we think he is and who fisher thinks he is this won’t even matter in the long run.
that being said i hope he’s starting next week.
edit. i included quinn, but fisher did not coach quinn his rookie year. oops.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by InvaderRam.
September 29, 2016 at 9:20 am #54098AgamemnonParticipantHow long Goff sits is not going to make a difference in the long term.
If he is your guy and you want to fast track him, then he needs reps. Give a few starts and see how he handles it. If he needs more work, let him sit for and try again later.
I think Keenum is the 3rd best QB on this team. But, I am OK with him starting now. I don’t expect him to be back next year. I would rather see Mannion and Goff have a real competition this year.
September 29, 2016 at 9:31 am #54099nittany ramModeratorthat being said i hope he’s starting next week.
I think if Goff is starting next week, it means that Keenum was injured against the Cards.
I think there’s a good chance the Rams pass offense will be ineffectual this week against Arizona. The Cards haven’t been great against the run but I’m not sure the Rams are ready to take advantage of that quite yet even though they started to get on track in the second half vs the Bucs. So to me this week looks like a loss and a potentially embarrassing one. So the “when is Goff going to start” media hype could get ratcheted up a good bit. Hopefully the Rams somehow come away with a victory which should keep the Goff stuff on a low simmer.
Regardless I don’t see Goff”s first start coming before the bye unless Keenum is injured.
September 29, 2016 at 9:55 am #54100znModeratorTo me this comes down to whether you think Fisher and his offensive coaches are Idiots,
or not. I mean, Fisher and his coaches see the kid every day, And they see Keenum every day.Its just not an issue to me, yet.
w
vThat’s how I vote.
September 29, 2016 at 10:09 am #54102nittany ramModeratorTo me this comes down to whether you think Fisher and his offensive coaches are Idiots,
or not. I mean, Fisher and his coaches see the kid every day, And they see Keenum every day.Its just not an issue to me, yet.
w
vThat’s how I vote.
Well a coach can be wrong or misread something without being an idiot.
That said, I happily differ to Fisher and his staff about when Goff should start. I have no reason to think they are misjudging Goff’s readiness. It’s not an issue to me, either.
However, they could be, and it wouldn’t mean they’re idiots if they are. No one including the coaches expected Prescot, Siemian or Wentz to play as well as they have. And even though he’s not a rookie, I’m sure Chip Kelly didn’t foresee Gabbert being so bad.
Coaches misjudge players all the time. They can really only make educated guesses about their readiness. We really won’t know if Goff is ready to start until he starts.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by nittany ram.
September 29, 2016 at 10:19 am #54104wvParticipantWell a coach can be wrong or misread something without being an idiot.
That said….
———————————-
Well, apparently SOMEONE doesn’t know what being a football fan is all about.
Maybe someone needs to go back and read the football-fan-101-Manual.
September 29, 2016 at 11:18 am #54106PA RamParticipantThe only real problem is that they get him “cheap” for four years. So take one of those years away–in terms of watching him perform, him getting the on field experience, etc. and you have 3 years to see if he’s the real deal before you have to make a decision on giving him big money in the second contract. Now the first year he plays will be the year you just let him learn. So it’ll be hard to know anything. So essentially you’ll have two good years to see him and decide whether he really is the guy.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
September 29, 2016 at 1:50 pm #54114ZooeyModeratorAll I can say is that what I saw of Goff in the pre-season told me that he wasn’t anywhere NEAR ready. Nowhere near.
Add to that the facts that he never took a direct center exchange, or called a play in the huddle, or was asked to read defenses…and he is 21 years old.
I am floored by the success of all the rookie QBs who have started this year without looking like a Keystone Cop. This may turn out to be a great class of QBs, and an entirely unexpected one pre-draft. And maybe Goff is the worst of the bunch, and maybe he’s the best of the bunch. I dunno. But I think he would look like a Keystone Cop if he played right now based on what I saw. Not all the time. Because he looks like he’s good. And that would show. But for all the energy he could bring, he would also shoot drives in the foot here and there.
I don’t think I want to see him start this year until he has played successfully in mop up duty.
September 29, 2016 at 4:51 pm #54117joemadParticipantin most cases, in the final week of preseason, most starters only play 1 or 2 series…
If Goff quit while he was ahead after the 1st drive of his last preseason game I think fans and the media would be even more obsessed with wanting Goff to start……
Goff was 4-5 with a nice TD pass to cap off the 1st drive in that final preseason game …. I was thinking to myself, “damn this guy looks pretty good” He looked good, calm confident and executed very well…..
then a few series later, Goff suddenly turned into Alan Alda from the movie Paper Lion, (at least he didn’t run into the goal post)
They’re 2-1, that’s what matters………..I bet George Allen wouldn’t start Goff either…..
like WV said, the staff evaluate these QBs everyday, they know much better than we do…… in addition maybe they sense that Goff himself doesn’t feel ready……
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by joemad.
September 29, 2016 at 6:21 pm #54122znModeratorThe only real problem is that they get him “cheap” for four years. So take one of those years away–in terms of watching him perform, him getting the on field experience, etc.
Five years. You can exercise an option with first round picks. I think they’re thinking, we want him or we wouldn’t have drafted him…so we will develop him our way. I doubt it enters their minds that in a few years they will have to decide whether they want to keep him.
September 29, 2016 at 6:57 pm #54123InvaderRamModeratorthen a few series later, Goff suddenly turned into Alan Alda from the movie Paper Lion, (at least he didn’t run into the goal post)
i think at that point a lot of regular players had been pulled. not sure. i think it was partially due to him. partially due to being out of sync with his teammates.
i think he’s pretty close, but fisher wants to get him as ready as possible before throwing him in.
besides keenum is doing just enough to get the rams by. so no pressure yet to rush him yet.
September 30, 2016 at 8:21 pm #54163znModerator“But Can He Make Music?” Thoughts on Rookie Quarterbacks
Matt Waldman
link: https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2016/09/08/but-can-he-make-music-thoughts-on-rookie-quarterbacks/
I was wrong to think that Jared Goff was the most pro ready of the 2016 rookie quarterback class. I underestimated the difficulty of the transition from Cal’s Air Raid offense to the Rams’ West Coast system. But I don’t think this is a big deal if you’re focused on the true North of the compass for what matters most for a young quarterback:
Long-term development.
Most people aren’t oriented this way. What we see written and discussed in major media reinforces the fallacy that rookie quarterbacks need to perform well immediately. When a lesser-regarded prospect outperforms a player of higher regard, there’s often a one-to-one comparison of the two and there shouldn’t be.
Quarterbacks are a lot like musicians and it’s problematic to judge two rookie quarterbacks during the rehearsal process. They’re learning how to interact with their band and the performance environment and each band and environment has enough differences that most boom-bust conclusions are short-sighted.
Jared Goff is learning an entirely new system. Will Hewlett–a quarterback coach and consultant to high school, college and professional passers–says the transition from the Air Raid system at Cal to a West Coast system with the Rams is like learning Chinese.
If you’ve ever taken language lessons as an adult, it becomes apparent almost immediately that the process sublimate the winning traits of your personality. Learning Chinese? Forget having a quick wit or great sense of humor for months.
Are you known for your sensitivity? You’ll be so busy focusing on what people are saying that you only catch a glimpse of how they’re saying it. Facial expressions and tone of voice are like third and fourth reads for a quarterback at your opponent’s 45 on 3rd and 12 with 1:34 left on the clock, down by 3, and dealing with the potential for A-gap pressure and missing that DE dropping into the flat.
You’re still sensitive, witty, and intelligent. You still have those skills and others but they won’t show up nearly as often when first learning that new language. Goff’s stats show that he’s not handling pressure well and he’s make critical errors but to conclude that he’s lost these skills or analysts were wrong for ever seeing them, glosses over the realities of learning a complex system.
And the West Coast system is the most difficult offense to learn. It’s the most common one in the league because coaches have witnessed how unstoppable it can be when at its best. However, there are few quarterbacks who can run it at that level.
It’s like staring in one band as a tenor saxophonist and then being asked to perform a ballad like the one shown above on the soprano. There are multiple, subtle demands to evoking deep emotions from the audience and the main performer’s flaws are at much greater risk of exposure to the crowd.
Jared Goff’s learning curve is far different but he’s judged along the same standard. RamsWire writer Jeff Smith has done a good job of telling Rams fans to freak out that Goff is the No.3 quarterback after the preseason. Smith is correct that the Rams invested a lot of capital in Goff, analysts (like me) thought Goff was the most pro-ready quarterback in the class, and Goff’s statistics haven’t been good.
But the stats only show that Goff’s results are bad and they way they are presented, there’s a presumption that Goff should display the same qualities that made him productive at Cal. This is a bad presumption.
The Cowboys have asked Prescott to play his best ax as a part of a strong group of players and perform songs with strict time boundaries, comfortable tempos, and tightly rehearsed forms. The Rams want Goff to learn a similar but slightly different and temperamental instrument and perform songs that have a lot more variables.
Goff is doing a lot more thinking than performing and it’s why he’s the No.3 option. If the Rams ownership has a clue, Goff’s temporary tenure as the final backup on the depth chart is more annoying when answering media questions than it is in the locker room.
Jeff Fisher gets his share of media criticism as an overrated coach but he believed in bringing quarterbacks along slowly. He wanted Vince Young to rely more on his brains than his body but Young didn’t become a student of the game. After a great rookie year with the team working around Young’s talents, opposing defenses generated more demands for Young to succeed and he didn’t study enough to meet them.
Steve McNair was a student of the game and he evolved into one of the more underrated pocket passers of his time. McNair didn’t start immediately and there were concerns early on that McNair wasn’t worth the No.3 overall pick in the draft. Fisher and the Titans were patient and it paid off.
Brett Hundley was the No.3 quarterback last year. He’s now considered a promising backup with starter potential. The notable difference in perception between Hundley and Goff is that Goff was the No.1 overall pick and Hundley dropped to the middle rounds in 2015.
Those in the know understand that Hundley was considered an early round talent entering his junior year. If he stayed at UCLA last year, he might have earned a high-round selection.
The public pressure on Goff and the Rams has greater intensity due to the number of picks the team traded to invest in the rookie. But if the Rams ownership and executive team is thinking clearly, they’ll look at Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady’s career arcs.
Neither players was remotely a No.1 overall pick in the draft. Brady began his career as the No.3. Most teams would have spent more on these two players in their prime than what the Rams spent on Goff.
So when readers ask me, “What do you think about Jared Goff and Dak Prescott now?” it’s all about my frame of perspective. For fantasy football, Goff is a player that I’ll monitor. He’s a potential waiver-wire player in re-draft leagues later in the year.
Prescott is at least a temporary starter with actual value in daily fantasy formats. He’s also capable of strong opening month in season-long formats.
In dynasty leagues, I’m still drafting Goff over Prescott and there’s no hesitation. If anything, I’m getting better value on Goff. The bump in Prescott’s value makes him a little less attractive although the opportunity to solidify his future as a starter is a lot more compelling in the immediate present.
Beyond the immediate fantasy implications of late summer and early fall, I stand by the process that led me to the results that I publish every April.
If the Rams give Goff the time the Packers and Patriots gave to their starters–or even Washington inadvertently gave to Kirk Cousins while rushing the process with Robert Griffin III–Goff has the talent to thrive. His pocket presence, accuracy, and feel for the game hasn’t left. The new system is forcing him to think rather than play.
If the Cowboys continue to surround Prescott with a strong band and can spotlight the rookie’s confidence and athletic ability, he’ll succeed this year. If they gradually feed him more options and responsibilities so he can grow into a well-rounded leader of an offense, he develop into a complete player.
Quarterbacking is like making music. Thanks to our digital age, most young quarterbacks have more access to technical coaching, nutrition and training programs, and football theory than their predecessors.
Look at their technique, athletic ability, and understanding of specific offensive ideas in a vacuum and they appear more pro-ready than in the past. But just like musicians who developed the optimal physical techniques to produce a good sound, memorized hot licks, and gained extensive knowledge of harmony, none of it matters if they can’t make it all sound musical.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.