Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Things I don’t understand
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JackPMiller.
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October 25, 2020 at 1:54 pm #123383
waterfieldParticipantMany of my friends, like most here, don’t like Biden because he’s not progressive enough. OTOH several of my Republican friends say stuff like: “Biden? Who wants to live under socialism or communism?”
Are the any people left who are not so polarized in their views?
October 25, 2020 at 6:36 pm #123389
znModeratorMany of my friends, like most here, don’t like Biden because he’s not progressive enough. OTOH several of my Republican friends say stuff like: “Biden? Who wants to live under socialism or communism?”
Are the any people left who are not so polarized in their views?
Well if you’re a real progressive, yeah he’s not progressive enough. That’s just a simple fact. I don’t know why that’s “polarized.” Some progressives will not vote for him for that reason, and some make the pragmatic choice and vote for the guy who is just simply not as bad as Trump.
As for your Republican friends, they are doing what a lot of right-wingers do these days. Living in amazing delusions.
October 25, 2020 at 6:53 pm #123391waterfieldParticipantMany of my friends, like most here, don’t like Biden because he’s not progressive enough. OTOH several of my Republican friends say stuff like: “Biden? Who wants to live under socialism or communism?”
Are the any people left who are not so polarized in their views?
Well if you’re a real progressive, yeah he’s not progressive enough. That’s just a simple fact. I don’t know why that’s “polarized.” Some progressives will not vote for him for that reason, and some make the pragmatic choice and vote for the guy who is just simply not as bad as Trump.
As for your Republican friends, they are doing what a lot of right-wingers do these days. Living in amazing delusions.
I wrote “polarized” simply to illustrate how far apart people are these days. 2 people at a bar. One is a progressive and the other is a Republican. Progressive says “I don’t like Biden because he doesn’t believe in
- socialized
medicine”. Republican responds “I don’t like him either because he’s a
- socialist”.
Makes no sense-does it. Which is why the two could never have a talk over a beer. Two different planets.
October 25, 2020 at 8:32 pm #123394znModeratorMany of my friends, like most here, don’t like Biden because he’s not progressive enough. OTOH several of my Republican friends say stuff like: “Biden? Who wants to live under socialism or communism?”
Are the any people left who are not so polarized in their views?
Well if you’re a real progressive, yeah he’s not progressive enough. That’s just a simple fact. I don’t know why that’s “polarized.” Some progressives will not vote for him for that reason, and some make the pragmatic choice and vote for the guy who is just simply not as bad as Trump.
As for your Republican friends, they are doing what a lot of right-wingers do these days. Living in amazing delusions.
I wrote “polarized” simply to illustrate how far apart people are these days. 2 people at a bar. One is a progressive and the other is a Republican. Progressive says “I don’t like Biden because he doesn’t believe in
- socialized
medicine”. Republican responds “I don’t like him either because he’s a
- socialist”.
Makes no sense-does it. Which is why the two could never have a talk over a beer. Two different planets.
Yeah it makes sense. Progressives recognize he’s not progressive, and Republicans who see him as the reincarnation of Che Guevara are just blithering on about their delusions. That’s polarized to YOU because you’re doing the “I’m in the middle with the truth” number centrists do. And that’s not even me being critical or snarky. You see polarization with your position being in a “healthy” middle, I see an unprogressive Biden and delusional republicans.
October 26, 2020 at 2:05 pm #123412znModeratorThe progression of Kamala’s faces when Norah O’Donnell asked her if she’d be sharing her “socialist perspective” with Biden when they’re in office pic.twitter.com/TATBhVFt3B
— chris evans (@notcapnamerica) October 26, 2020
October 26, 2020 at 4:47 pm #123417waterfieldParticipantMany of my friends, like most here, don’t like Biden because he’s not progressive enough. OTOH several of my Republican friends say stuff like: “Biden? Who wants to live under socialism or communism?”
Are the any people left who are not so polarized in their views?
Well if you’re a real progressive, yeah he’s not progressive enough. That’s just a simple fact. I don’t know why that’s “polarized.” Some progressives will not vote for him for that reason, and some make the pragmatic choice and vote for the guy who is just simply not as bad as Trump.
As for your Republican friends, they are doing what a lot of right-wingers do these days. Living in amazing delusions.
I wrote “polarized” simply to illustrate how far apart people are these days. 2 people at a bar. One is a progressive and the other is a Republican. Progressive says “I don’t like Biden because he doesn’t believe in
- socialized
medicine”. Republican responds “I don’t like him either because he’s a
- socialist”.
Makes no sense-does it. Which is why the two could never have a talk over a beer. Two different planets.
Yeah it makes sense. Progressives recognize he’s not progressive, and Republicans who see him as the reincarnation of Che Guevara are just blithering on about their delusions. That’s polarized to YOU because you’re doing the “I’m in the middle with the truth” number centrists do. And that’s not even me being critical or snarky. You see polarization with your position being in a “healthy” middle, I see an unprogressive Biden and delusional republicans.
You are being critical and snarky whether you admit it or not when you claim that my motive is to show only my view is the “healthy” one.
I’m only trying to point out how silly and ignorant it is for the “right” to argue Biden is a socialist or communist. Progressive must think the opposite and even laugh at such a notion. That is what makes conversations so difficult with Republicans. If that means I think my “position” is the healthiest -well, I guess I can’t help that.
October 26, 2020 at 7:10 pm #123422
wvParticipantThe Rightwingers thought Obama was a socialist. They thought Hillary was a socialist.
The smart rightwingers KNOW thats just a scary-lie and they know its a Strategy. The dum rightwingers actually believe the lie. They actually believe Biden/Hillary/Obama are evil-socialists.Progressives actually know Bidens record. They know what he has done. And its not progressive. Progressives know the actual facts. He’s a DNC guy. A same-ole-same-ole Corporate-Dem. Same as Clinton, Same as Obama. (Kamala is the ‘New Improved Version of Dems’. Same deal, new package)
So, yeah there’s a huge divide between progressives and rightwingers. As there should be.
Biden will win. Biden will be Obama/Clinton.
The American-poor will continue to be crushed by the Corporotocracy.
Foreign-born poor will continue to be bombed-to-death by Biden and the Dem-Rep-Imperialists.Biden is better than Trump.
w
vOctober 26, 2020 at 7:58 pm #123424waterfieldParticipantThe dum rightwingers actually believe the lie. They actually believe Biden/Hillary/Obama are evil-socialists.
I guess my real question should be: how can they possibly believe that? I mean is it simply political in that they don’t believe it but are simply repeating what Trump says for effect? Or are these people really that stupid. I can understand if they don’t believe it but will still vote for Trump. But to actually believe he is a communist or socialist -I mean if they only get their news on Fox-no one at Fox even says that.
October 26, 2020 at 8:12 pm #123425
CalParticipantI guess my real question should be: how can they possibly believe that? I mean is it simply political in that they don’t believe it but are simply repeating what Trump says for effect? Or are these people really that stupid. I can understand if they don’t believe it but will still vote for Trump. But to actually believe he is a communist or socialist -I mean if they only get their news on Fox-no one at Fox even says that.
This might be another way of saying that gov’t is too big. And right-wingers who do criticize THIS gov’t are right.
The gov’t that we currently have is fat, bloated and just hands billions of dollars every year to the bankers and fat cats.
Biden and other dems don’t help this, BTW. They have no problem continuing to support this crony capitalism.
Biden could push back against Trump’s criticism of Medicare for all, but all he does is accept Trump’s definition of Medicare for all.
At least Biden took a step in the right direction with his criticism of oil companies during the debate. Why didn’t Obama and Biden cut the oil companies off 10 years ago?
October 26, 2020 at 10:55 pm #123426wvParticipantThe dum rightwingers actually believe the lie. They actually believe Biden/Hillary/Obama are evil-socialists.
… But to actually believe he is a communist or socialist -I mean if they only get their news on Fox-no one at Fox even says that.
==============
My experience, here in wv is that — yes, indeed they do believe that the Dems are socialists. And they want to take our guns. And they want to take away our school-prayers. And they want to abort gods children. And they want to reward the lazy freeloading poor people by giving them tax-dollars. And they favor black people and mexicans over ‘white’ people. Shall i go on?
They dont really know what ‘socialism’ is in an economic/historical sense. They just know its very bad and encompasses those things i just laid out.
Educated liberals have their own blindspots. Imperialism for example. They dont seem to mind drone-murdering people all over the planet. They dont seem to mind policies that crush the poor. Etc.
w
vOctober 27, 2020 at 9:53 am #123451
Billy_TParticipantTo me, it’s a lot like the way religious texts are viewed, and how those views are exploited — plus, the failures and successes of that exploitation. Academic scholars, with that specialty, see them one way. Amateur scholars see them another. Well-educated lay people still another. And those who are too busy to put in the time, still another.
Politics is very similar.
So it’s not really a “polarity” per se. It’s a matter of those who put in the time to break through the gaslighting, and those who haven’t, and all the points between. Throw in folks who are “naturally” gifted in critical thinking, which impacts all points, and you get the difference between successful exploitation and failure.
In short, if Americans actually knew what “socialism” would mean in their own lives, for their own health and well-being, and for a sustainable planet, roughly 99% of the population would say, “Hell, yeah!!” to the real thing. It’s only because of an all-out successful assault on the truth that America isn’t the first truly “socialist” nation on earth. Ironically, if we had followed the path forged by Thomas Paine, among others, we would have started out that way after the revolution.
October 27, 2020 at 10:48 am #123456Billy_TParticipantZooming out — perhaps too far — consider this example of the massive gap between the gaslighters and the gaslit, the haves and the have nots, and the right and the left:
Leftist philosophers, activists, political scientists, etc. etc. . . . are likely all alone in even asking such questions:
Why is society structured in such a way that we (must) choose our life’s work in order to keep from starving, to fend off the wolves at the door, rather than deciding based on our love of this or that life’s work? Why is it legal for one human being to own all the work an entire workforce does, as if that one person did all the work? Why is it legal for that one person to make all the decisions for us, regarding the what, where, when, how and why of production, our wages, etc. etc.?
Why should the economy be set up for the purpose of making a tiny fraction of society rich(er), rather than making sure everyone has what they need to live a good life? Why do we not, instead, organize the economy to serve us, all of us, our needs, sustainably, in harmony with the earth’s finite resources and limits? Why are we okay with being endlessly exploited by the super-rich, when we overwhelm them numerically?
Three people now hold more wealth than the bottom half of the nation combined. Why do we allow such insanity? Why do we allow the economic mode of production that guarantees this?
October 27, 2020 at 12:32 pm #123466waterfieldParticipantI believe that time is coming Billy. Whether it’s structural socialism as our text books read or some other form. As our demographics change the door to exploring more progressive changes keeps getting wider and wider. There are leaks in the dam.
October 27, 2020 at 5:24 pm #123476
ZooeyModeratorI think climate change is going to push it.
People who want to live a decent life in 30 years are turning hard against the system, and that pressure is only likely to increase.
That’s why the billionaires are building bunkers in New Zealand, and militarizing the police.
October 27, 2020 at 5:39 pm #123478
JackPMillerParticipantWhat is sad, America has always been a socialist country.
Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, your paycheck, your pension, law enforcement, fire departments, hospitals, etc., are all socialism.
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