Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › The real miracle of acupuncture – that anyone still believes in it…
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July 30, 2015 at 8:15 pm #27779nittany ramModerator
http://bigthink.com/neurobonkers/the-real-miracle-of-acupuncture-that-anyone-still-believes-in-it
The Real Miracle of Acupuncture: That Anyone Still Believes In It
by SIMON OXENHAM
Unlike plenty of other mystic beliefs, the practical nature of acupuncture has the benefit of making it readily falsifiable through the form of a sham study. In a sham study we can compare genuine acupuncture, in which real acupuncturists provide treatment, to sham acupuncture in which researchers go through the motions, randomly poking or randomly pretending to poke their patients with needles. More research has been done into acupuncture than practically any other kind of alternative medicine, yet the evidence from thousands of studies points conclusively to the fact that acupuncture, at worst, is completely ineffective and, at best, is no more effective than a placebo. Astoundingly, the benefit of acupuncture is so poor that in plenty of studies, even compared to no treatment, the benefits of acupuncture are practically impossible to notice.
In 2013 David Colquhoun wrote a fascinating and damning review of the evidence against acupuncture in the journal Anesthesia & Analgesia. It is often alleged that acupuncture is an ancient medical practice that has been refined and revered for thousands of years. In reality acupuncture is indeed an ancient medical practice, but it has in fact been in decline for thousands of years. In 1822 it was actually banned from the Imperial Medical Academy by Emperor Dao Guang. It wasn’t until 1966 that it was revived by Chairman Mao Zedong, but even he didn’t actually believe in it. Mao stated: “Even though I believe we should promote Chinese medicine, I personally do not believe in it.” Yet despite all these obstacles, acupuncture has resurrected itself in the 21st Century, in a Western world that has (arguably rightly) become fearful and suspicious of mainstream medicine.
“There is now unanimity between acupuncturists and nonacupuncturists that any benefits that may exist are too small to provide any noticeable benefit to patients. That being the case, it is hard to see why acupuncture is still used. Certainly, such an accumulation of negative results would result in the withdrawal of any conventional treatment.” — David Colquhoun
At this point in the conversation, plenty of otherwise perfectly rational people will often say something along the lines of: “Yes, it is clear that any effect is completely due to the placebo effect … but so what? Surely, the benefits of the placebo effect are better than doing nothing at all.” Indeed, as we are only now beginning to understand, the placebo effect is so powerful that it still works even when you are fully aware that an intervention is only a placebo.
Here’s a tip for arguing with people that aren’t entirely rational: If they use the word “surely,” you can be pretty damn sure that whatever they say next is likely to present you with a massive hole in their argument. The simple answer is that all medicines involve a placebo effect. Acupuncture and other alternative medicines are not somehow unique providers of the placebo effect’s wondrous power. This is why for a genuine medicine to be approved, it must not just be better than nothing; it must be shown in a placebo-controlled trial to be more effective than a placebo. This principle is the very foundation of modern medicine. Indeed, any randomized, controlled trial worth its salt will not just test against a placebo, it will test against the next best alternative treatment (but that’s a subject for another post).
Despite the wealth of evidence debunking acupuncture, we continue to see poorly conducted trial after poorly conducted trial popping up, with credulous claims from journalists in otherwise sane publications.
“Almost all trials of alternative medicines seem to end up with the conclusion that more research is needed. After more than 3,000 trials, that is dubious. … Since it has proved impossible to find consistent evidence after more than 3,000 trials, it is time to give up.” — David Colquhoun
Recently, plenty of newspapers fell hook, line, and sinker for an extraordinarily laughable acupuncture study on, wait for it… rats. After I’d finished chortling at the idiocy of trying to test acupuncture’s effect on pain on anything other than a human, I downloaded the paper, which The Guardian breathlessly described as: “the strongest evidence yet that the ancient Chinese therapy has more than a placebo effect when used to treat chronic stress,” almost as if more evidence than no evidence is somehow a claim that deserves some kind of medal.
Before we launch into a full-frontal takedown of this paper (don’t worry, it won’t take long), let’s first consider the fact that any surrogate outcome study designed to support particular claims made by acupuncturists is pretty much entirely pointless before acupuncture can be shown to be effective, i.e., actually reduce symptoms. The fact that the study was conducted on rats takes the study out of the realms of the foolish and into the realms of the downright ludicrous.
The study consisted of bathing rats in ice baths for an hour per day for 14 days and running current through the rats’ with electrified needles, as if this bears any relation to what happens in your high street acupuncture clinic. Surgeon and author of the outstanding Respectful Insolence blog, David Gorski, examined the study in admirable detail before suggesting an alternate explanation for the results:
“Having a needle stuck in the leg and having current run through it hurts less than having a needle stuck in the back and having current run through it. There’s no way of knowing because we can’t ask the rat.”
I don’t have much time for critics of animal trials for life-saving treatments, but this is a trial that animal rights activists might want to take a serious look at. It is inconceivable that bathing rats in ice baths and jabbing them with electrified needles for the purposes of justifying a Chinese medical practice debunked hundreds of years ago could have any possible productive outcome. It certainly doesn’t tell us anything useful about acupuncture, except maybe that certain acupuncture scientists have even less of a clue what they are doing than we ever gave them credit for.
July 30, 2015 at 8:20 pm #27781nittany ramModeratorhttps://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/placebo-by-conditioning/
Science-Based Medicine
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ArticlesPlacebo by Conditioning
Posted by Steven Novella on July 29, 2015 45 Comments
power-of-placebo-effectTruly understanding placebo effects (note the plural) is critical to science-based medicine. Misconceptions about placebo effects are perhaps the common problem I encounter among otherwise-scientific professionals and science communicators.The persistence of these misconceptions is due partly to the fact that false beliefs about placebos, namely that “the” placebo effect is mainly an expectation mind-over-matter effect, is deeply embedded in the culture. It is further exacerbated by recent attempts by CAM proponents to promote placebo-medicine, as their preferred treatments are increasingly being demonstrated to be nothing but placebos.
One idea that proponents of placebo medicine have tried to put forth is that you can have a placebo effect without deception. The study most often pointed to in order to support this claim is Ted Kaptchuk’s irritable bowel syndrome study. However, this study was flawed in that it told participants that placebos can heal, so it wasn’t exactly without deception.
The role of conditioning
A recent study published in the Journal of Pain focuses on conditioning as a component of placebo effects. The study design is interesting, but I have doubts about its applicability to the clinical setting.
The researchers used a heat model of pain applied to the forearm. They did various runs where participants reported their pain level in response to different temperatures. Their forearms were treated first either with a control cream (petroleum jelly) or a placebo cream (petroleum jelly plus blue food coloring). They were told the placebo cream contained a powerful analgesic that would block pain. The cream was then removed, and a hot stimulus applied.
When subjects were treated with the placebo cream they believed to be active, they were then tested, without their knowledge, with a warm but not painfully hot stimulus. This was meant to convince them that the placebo cream worked. (So again, the protocol used active deception to achieve its ends.)
One group of subjects experienced a single set of runs in this fashion. Another group experienced four sets of runs spread out over different days. Then finally came the test – all test subjects were told about the deception, that the placebo cream was inactive and in fact identical to the petroleum jelly except for the dye. They were then given another run with the control and placebo cream.
The researchers found that in the group that had the long run (four-day series) subjects still experienced reduced pain sensations with the placebo cream, but not the control cream. There was no difference for the short run (single day, single series) subjects. There were controls in place to rule out simple habituation to the stimulus as a factor.
What did we learn about managing pain clinically?
If we take the results of the study at face value, what do we learn? The study does not establish that you can have placebos without deception. The method used in this study depends explicitly on deception.
What the study does potentially show is that conditioning can play a role in placebo effects. This idea is nothing new, as conditioning has been on the list of placebo effects for years (certainly since I have been writing about placebo effects). The study does demonstrate that conditioning alone, without expectation of benefit, is sufficient to produce at least a temporary effect for a subjective symptom (pain, in this case). This is entirely unsurprising, but it’s good to have an experimental verification.
Conditioning probably plays a significant role in many placebo rituals, such as acupuncture, or even non-placebo treatments such as taking medication or getting a valid medical procedure. The process of the treatment becomes associated in our minds with feeling better, and so experiencing the process makes us feel better. Perhaps the conditioned stimulus triggers the release of endorphins, for example.
The main limitation is that the conditioning in this case required a contrived situation, in which patients were deceived by receiving a non-painful stimulus they were told would be painful. They therefore attributed the lack of pain to the placebo analgesic. How would we apply this in the real world?
I suppose one way to accomplish a similar effect is to give the patient a real analgesic along with an associated placebo treatment. Then after sufficient time for conditioning to take place, give the placebo treatment without the analgesic. According to this study, however, you will have to secretly give them a real analgesic, an ethically dubious practice.
There are other ways to shift from active treatment to placebo, but they were not the subject of this study. Follow up studies that attempt to remove all deception would be interesting.
Conclusion – What do we know about placebos?
Taken together, the scientific literature on placebos indicates that it is a complex assortment of various effects. These include conditioning, as well as reporting bias, statistical effects such as regression to the mean, confounding factors, observation bias, and other effects. Expectation of benefit is only one element, and is not necessary by itself.
Often the absence of expectation is used by the naïve public to argue that placebo effects are ruled out, but this is not true. For example, it is frequently argued that babies and animals cannot have placebo effects because they cannot have expectation, but there are many other sources of apparent placebo effects, as this study partly demonstrates.
We further know that placebo effects are only measurable for subjective outcomes. Placebo effects won’t cure cancer or make you live longer. They may cause you to report less pain or nausea, however. Whether you are actually experiencing less pain or just reporting less pain is unclear. Placebo effects are also short lived.
The ultimate question is whether or not placebo effects are clinically valuable and whether attempts to provoke them are worthwhile. My position is that they are of severely limited value, and are not worth compromising the relationship with the patient by incorporating deception into the treatment. It is certainly not worth instilling in the patient false and pseudoscientific ideas about health and medicine.
Any placebo effects worth having can be achieved with legitimate treatments given without deception to fully informed patients.
August 1, 2015 at 7:50 am #27844znModeratorSo I take it you don’t believe in accidental self-acupuncture either.
Okay. Well I guess there’s always skeptics.
August 1, 2015 at 3:13 pm #27868wvParticipantOnce, when i was nine years-old, my friends and i
were building a tree-house. And while i was standing
under an oak tree, one of my buddies accidentally dropped
a two-by-four with a nail sticking out of it. The nail
stuck in my head. I pulled it out of my head and blood
gushed out. But i felt better.Now to me, that proves that pulling sharp objects out of your
head is going to make you feel better.Granted, its just anecdotal evidence.
More study is needed, probably.w
vAugust 2, 2015 at 9:59 am #27937PA RamParticipantIt’s sad that with all the knowledge we have today people are still doing this.
The only real cure for all of this is of course three or four ice trays dumped into your underwear and allowed to melt there, followed by a guacamole bath. It’s science people–SCIENCE!
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
August 2, 2015 at 11:02 am #27942bnwBlockedMedicine is not science. It’s an art. Too much is unknown about the human body. People are different in how they respond to issues of environment, nutrition, sleep or pain among other things too. The problem I have with blanket assertions applied to human health is that there are almost always outliers that defy the orthodoxy. It is these outliers which present an opportunity for far greater insight into the true processes involved in a condition via research.
I know people who have benefitted from acupuncture therapy for low back pain. They swear by it. They’ve been on the pain medications and have lived in that fog for years before trying acupuncture. I would question whether this study thoroughly explored all possible avenues before making a blanket statement against acupuncture. All possible avenues can be claimed but passing time can give greater insight debunking past studies.
While I would be loathe to let a chiropractor turn me into a human pretzel to treat an ailment I know people who have benefitted from chiropractic treatment. I know I’d rather try acupuncture first and drugs and surgery last.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
August 2, 2015 at 12:37 pm #27945nittany ramModeratorMedicine is not science. It’s an art. Too much is unknown about the human body. People are different in how they respond to issues of environment, nutrition, sleep or pain among other things too. The problem I have with blanket assertions applied to human health is that there are almost always outliers that defy the orthodoxy. It is these outliers which present an opportunity for far greater insight into the true processes involved in a condition via research.
I know people who have benefitted from acupuncture therapy for low back pain. They swear by it. They’ve been on the pain medications and have lived in that fog for years before trying acupuncture. I would question whether this study thoroughly explored all possible avenues before making a blanket statement against acupuncture. All possible avenues can be claimed but passing time can give greater insight debunking past studies.
While I would be loathe to let a chiropractor turn me into a human pretzel to treat an ailment I know people who have benefitted from chiropractic treatment. I know I’d rather try acupuncture first and drugs and surgery last.
Well, the premise of original article in this thread that says acupuncture is a sham isn’t based on a single study. It’s an article based on the literally thousands of studies that debunk acupuncture. What your friends experience when they have acupuncture is most likely a placebo effect. See the second article posted in this thread.
The problem is, even though the placebo effect may have given them some pain relief, nothing has changed for them medically. The underlying condition that caused the pain is still there.
August 2, 2015 at 1:58 pm #27951bnwBlockedMedicine is not science. It’s an art. Too much is unknown about the human body. People are different in how they respond to issues of environment, nutrition, sleep or pain among other things too. The problem I have with blanket assertions applied to human health is that there are almost always outliers that defy the orthodoxy. It is these outliers which present an opportunity for far greater insight into the true processes involved in a condition via research.
I know people who have benefitted from acupuncture therapy for low back pain. They swear by it. They’ve been on the pain medications and have lived in that fog for years before trying acupuncture. I would question whether this study thoroughly explored all possible avenues before making a blanket statement against acupuncture. All possible avenues can be claimed but passing time can give greater insight debunking past studies.
While I would be loathe to let a chiropractor turn me into a human pretzel to treat an ailment I know people who have benefitted from chiropractic treatment. I know I’d rather try acupuncture first and drugs and surgery last.
Well, the premise of original article in this thread that says acupuncture is a sham isn’t based on a single study. It’s an article based on the literally thousands of studies that debunk acupuncture. What your friends experience when they have acupuncture is most likely a placebo effect. See the second article posted in this thread.
The problem is, even though the placebo effect may have given them some pain relief, nothing has changed for them medically. The underlying condition that caused the pain is still there.
They gladly made that trade. It was acupuncture or surgery since pain meds no longer worked. Why wouldn’t someone try acupuncture if only surgery was given as the remaining option? I find the placebo effect interesting as it may be the case with the people I know. Perhaps the body can regenerate in some fashion minus the stress of drugs and pain? Since the placebo effect is recognized as real by medical “science” why not explore it further since it must hold the key to another path to pain free living?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
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