The is and the ought of "impeachable offenses."

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  • #106429
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I’m gonna try really hard to go against type and keep this short. You guys can help me stick with this strategy by adding your own thoughts here, so I don’t feel the (absurd) need to expand it further.

    ;>)

    Anyway . . . So, I understand the argument by some on the left that the latest kerfuffle is overblown and doesn’t rise to “impeachable.” I get it. In relative terms to Trump’s other crimes, it’s not that huge a deal. In relative terms to what pretty much every American president has done, as “official” policy for the nation, it’s not that huge a deal. But that’s all under the “ought” category. We ought to have impeached — or never voted in in the first place — presidents who had slaves, were okay with slavery, promoted it, exported it, committed genocide against Native peoples, encouraged and supported colonial conquests, annexations, empire expansion, unnecessary wars/war crimes — which would be 99% of them — coups, support for dictators, assassinations, torture, black sites, environmental destruction, forcing capitalism down the throats of those who don’t want it and so on.

    The is part, however, is that the ruling class is going to protect itself and not get rid of people playing ball with them. It’s only going to allow intramural fights that don’t impact the bottom line and the basics of oligarchical arrangements.

    Which means . . . we’re likely never going to see “impeachment” for the things listed above. But we will see them for things like illicit affairs and lying about them, break-ins, virtual and physical, of one party by the other, and using the power of the presidency to harm political opponents, because this doesn’t hurt the ruling class in the slightest, but it does break unsaid rules between the two shield-parties.

    Since Trump is guilty of most of the stuff (and more) that past presidents have done that ought to be impeachable, I, personally, couldn’t care less if he’s tossed out on his butt for the lesser crimes. Again, Al Capone and tax evasion. Whatever works. Sometimes, banking on the ought gets in the way of a slam dunk is. This shouldn’t be one of those times.

    #106430
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    You guys can help me stick with this strategy by adding your own thoughts here, so I don’t feel the (absurd) need to expand it further.

    Never worry about that. Honestly. You’re a resource. Go with it.

    #106431
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Thanks, ZN.

    You’re a gracious host, a gentleman and a scholar.

    Much appreciated.

    Hope all is well in the great state of Maine.

    #106432
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I think it’s an impeachable offense. I think he has committed a lot of impeachable offenses. And remember, an action does not need to be criminal to be impeachable.

    I want him impeached – not for any particular thing his done – I want him impeached because of who he is. I have asked myself many times if I would support him if he was a Leftist. And the answer is No.

    He is psychologically unfit for office regardless…. He is a menace to people everywhere.

    #106435
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well, I think that was a good post. You put it in ‘context.’ Anytime i see that kind of context in somethin, i smile.

    As far as ‘impeachment,’ i can only drone on about my dark, boring, mantra — the system itself is a LIE. The entire system is a lie. So for me, my life is a never-ending series of decisions about how to live inside a big fat LIE. Do i vote? The system is a lie, so by participating by voting is participating in a lie. But maybe i can help real people who are suffering, by voting for the Least-disgusting candidate. Should i work in the criminal injustice system? Do i participate it? Its a big fat lie. But what are the alternatives…

    And on and on and on, for the rest of my life. Impeachment is just one more of those situations. Do i play the game, and pretend to take it seriously. Or do i just continue to drone on about the ‘context’ you just laid out….Cause that context makes the whole ‘impeachment’ issue a sick joke.

    How does one live and what decisions does one make, in the midst of a gigantic LIE. Well, i have no idea.

    Sure, Impeach him. Why not? 🙂

    Might be good strategy for the Dems. Might backfire. But the system is a LIE.

    w
    v

    #106437
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Thanks, WV and Zooey for your takes. It’s interesting, because I agree with both of them.

    One might look at them and say, they don’t exactly mesh. But, my reading is that really they do. It’s not an easy fit. But I think they both reinforce each other in a sense, and they both speak to the difficulty of living a just life in the here and now. They both hint of despair but definitely not defeat. They’re still in the realm of “bash on” and that’s hopeful/helpful, and that’s where I’m sittin’ too.

    #106499
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Thanks, ZN.

    You’re a gracious host, a gentleman and a scholar.

    Much appreciated.

    Hope all is well in the great state of Maine.

    Thanks but I think it’s pretty obvious I am only in it for the money.

    #106506
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    ;>)

    That’s a goodin,’ ZN.

    Sidenote: most recent Fox News poll has 51% of the country in favor of impeachment and removal.

    From what I’ve seen, most of the major polling firms have been relatively good on these questions. As in, they’re trying to be clear about the difference between inquiries, full impeachment, and conviction (removal). I’m actually pleasantly surprised by that . . . cuz it’s an easy set of distinctions to screw around with — and confuse.

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