The FBI, Trump, & elections

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  • #88171
    zn
    Moderator

    The Real F.B.I. Election Culprit
    Hint: It’s not Peter Strzok.

    By Garrett M. Graff

    link: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/13/opinion/trump-peter-strzok-fbi-election.html

    In his testimony before two House committees on Thursday, the F.B.I. agent Peter Strzok testified that he could have altered the 2016 election — but didn’t. The information about Russian election interference, he said, “had the potential to derail, and quite possibly, defeat Mr. Trump. But the thought of exposing that information never crossed my mind.”

    In hours of always hostile and sometimes even rude questioning, the Republican members of the committees never proved otherwise. The hearing was the latest effort by House Republicans to find any hint that there’s a “deep state” conspiracy against President Trump.

    Once again, they came up with nothing. Despite the various investigations into the 2016 election and for all the scrutiny on the F.B.I. and agents like Mr. Strzok, one stone remains largely unturned — even in the most comprehensive look at the F.B.I., the 500-page report last month from Michael Horowitz, the Justice Department inspector general.

    As Mr. Horowitz told Capitol Hill last month, his investigation didn’t try to dive into who at the F.B.I. New York field office was driving the leaks that ultimately pushed some of the regrettable decisions that Mr. Horowitz excoriated in that very report.

    But looking at available public evidence, the New York bureau’s actions actually did influence the campaign and helped hand the presidency to Donald Trump.

    In the Horowitz report, Loretta Lynch, the former attorney general, recalled a conversation with James Comey in which he said, “it’s clear to me that there is a cadre of senior people in New York who have a deep and visceral hatred of Secretary Clinton.” F.B.I. agents in that office had a demonstrated propensity for leaks and arguably forced the bureau’s leadership’s hand in the final weeks of the election.

    At that time, Rudy Giuliani gave voice on television to what he called the anti-Clinton “revolution going on inside the F.B.I.” Mr. Giuliani, whose former law firm Bracewell & Giuliani represented the F.B.I. Agents Association, seemed to boast in the final days of the campaign that he knew that a twist — like the revelations of emails on Anthony Weiner’s laptop — was coming about Mrs. Clinton’s campaign, referring on Fox to “a surprise or two that you’re going to hear about in the next few days.”

    In his testimony on Thursday, Mr. Strzok said that “it caused me great concern” that Mr. Giuliani “had information about that — that he should not have had.”

    Similarly, Mr. Giuliani’s longtime friend James Kallstrom, a former head of the New York F.B.I. office, was channeling on TV what he said was the F.B.I.’s anti-Clinton preference. Mr. Kallstrom, who founded a nonprofit that received more than $1.3 million in donations from Mr. Trump, told Megyn Kelly, “The agents are furious.” In one radio interview, Mr. Kallstrom even called the Clintons a “crime family” akin to the New York Mafia: “It’s like organized crime,” he said, and “the Clinton Foundation is a cesspool.”

    In those final days, F.B.I. leaders appeared to be caught in a whirlwind of anti-Clinton rumors and speculation. In his report, Mr. Horowitz acknowledges the role that the threat of leaks played in the F.B.I. leadership’s decision to make the news about Mr. Weiner’s laptop public. Numerous agents and officials confirmed it: Mr. Strzok and Lisa Page, an F.B.I. lawyer at the time; James Rybicki, then the F.B.I. chief of staff; James Baker, then the F.B.I. general counsel; and Sally Yates, then deputy attorney general.

    “The discussion was somebody in New York will leak this,” Mr. Baker said. “If we don’t put something out, somebody will leak it.”

    “Numerous witnesses connected this concern about leaks specifically” to the New York office and “told us that F.B.I. leadership suspected that F.B.I. personnel” in that office were “responsible for leaks of information in other matters,” the inspector general’s report said. “Even accepting Comey’s assertion that leaks played no role in his decision, we found that, at a minimum, a fear of leaks influenced the thinking of those who were advising him.”

    Ms. Yates told investigators that the F.B.I. explicitly cited the threat of leaks in explaining its decision to go public to the Justice Department. As she recalled, one reason the F.B.I. officials gave for why they felt Mr. Comey had to go to Congress “is that they felt confident that the New York field office would leak it and that it would come out regardless of whether he advised Congress or not.”

    The F.B.I. agent corps today overwhelmingly fits the demographic profile of a Trump voter. During the 2016 campaign, in The Guardian, one agent said, “The F.B.I. is Trumpland.” In his testimony, Mr. Strzok all but laughed out loud when committee members pressed him Thursday on whether the whole F.B.I. was made up of Democrats.

    The New York field office, one of only three headed not by a special-agent-in-charge but by a full assistant director, has always been a particular challenge for bureau leaders — it’s fiercely independent, combative and notoriously leaky. The office, which works closely with the local United States attorney for the Southern District of New York, a job held by both Mr. Comey and Mr. Giuliani, is sometimes referred to inside the Justice Department as the “Sovereign District of New York” for charting its own course.

    The office has long been a source of meddlesome leaks, in part because of the intermixing of F.B.I. agents and New York Police Department officers who have close relationships with the city’s press corps. The lowest point in these relations came in 2009, when the investigation of the would-be subway bomber Najibullah Zazi — a critical emergency investigation that had remained secret when it was focused in Denver, Zazi’s hometown — leaked quickly once the would-be attacker and case arrived in New York, both to the media and to the suspect’s family itself.

    Another key part of the fear of leaks in 2016 grew out of the cultural differences between the counterintelligence side of the F.B.I. — which handled the original Clinton email investigation and proved all-but-leak-free — and the more leaky criminal side, which was responsible for the Weiner laptop investigation and stumbled across the stray Clinton emails. “I knew that there were leaks coming — or appeared to be leaks about criminal investigation of the Clintons coming out of New York,” Mr. Comey told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos this spring.

    We need to understand the truth of the 2016 election — not just for the record, but to take steps to prevent any interference in future elections. Mr. Strzok survived the worst the House Republicans could throw at him, including a threat to charge him with contempt for refusing to answer questions on the advice of the F.B.I.’s counsel about an ongoing investigation — a hallmark of the rule of law in ordinary times. Until congressional overseers make a serious attempt to get to the bottom of the New York field office’s role in the election, we’ll know they’re not serious about learning the truth.

    #88172
    wv
    Participant

    I’ve been reading a lot about the american FBI in my book on the Black Panthers. The FBI basically were murderers. Just flat out, murder. Hoover felt he was at war with radicals. He called them the biggest internal threat to the US in existence.

    I dont see any reason to think they are better now, than they used to be. I mean why would they be?

    I am at the point where i wouldnt trust a single solitary thing that comes from the F.B.I. I mean, I’m sure they tell the truth sometimes, but how would i know when?

    Thats just me, of course. I know that view is not shared around here, and thats totally cool. Just sharing my own disgust with that subpart-of-the-System.

    w
    v

    #88177
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I’ve been reading a lot about the american FBI in my book on the Black Panthers. The FBI basically were murderers. Just flat out, murder. Hoover felt he was at war with radicals. He called them the biggest internal threat to the US in existence.

    I dont see any reason to think they are better now, than they used to be. I mean why would they be?

    I am at the point where i wouldnt trust a single solitary thing that comes from the F.B.I. I mean, I’m sure they tell the truth sometimes, but how would i know when?

    Thats just me, of course. I know that view is not shared around here, and thats totally cool. Just sharing my own disgust with that subpart-of-the-System.

    w
    v

    Thing is, they’ve been under Republican control since before it was even called the FBI. They’re famously right-wing, even hard right — which Trump is too.

    So, to me, the entire attempt to claim a “deep state conspiracy against Trump” is absurd (Not saying you’re doing this, WV). If it (the deep state) exists at all, the vast majority of it is going to be more sympathetic to Trump and the GOP than their political opponents.

    Ironically . . . this may be changing — somewhat at least. No serious research to back this up, so I’m just winging it here. But it seems like the latest wave of Dem candidates includes a lot of ex-military. Yeah, it includes the Ocasio-Cortezs too. But she’s, tragically, an outlier. I think the Dems are doing their best to own “the center” and they see the military as a great place to start.

    #88178
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    I think the FBI has changed since Hoover.

    One example…the FBI no longer thinks left wing radicals are the biggest threat to the country. They now believe homegrown white wing extremist groups are the biggest threat (ie Michigan Militia, 3 Percenters, the various neo Nazi and Klan groups, etc.).

    Which is in direct opposition to the rightwing narrative that the biggest threats are illegal immigrants and Muslim extremists.

    Now, I’m not saying the FBI is completely trustworthy because I don’t think they are, but it is telling that they are no longer marching in lockstep with the rightwing.

    #88179
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I think the FBI has changed since Hoover.

    One example…the FBI no longer thinks left wing radicals are the biggest threat to the country. They now believe homegrown white wing extremist groups are the biggest threat (ie Michigan Militia, 3 Percenters, the various neo Nazi and Klan groups, etc.).

    Which is in direct opposition to the rightwing narrative that the biggest threats are illegal immigrants and Muslim extremists.

    Now, I’m not saying the FBI is completely trustworthy because I don’t think they are, but it is telling that they are no longer marching in lockstep with the rightwing.

    But wouldn’t you say they tilt conservative? I know that’s a huge generalization, and pretty much impossible to “prove.” But I don’t think Law Enforcement, the military, the intel spheres, etc. . . . have ever been big draws for us leftists.
    I’d bet the corporate world in general isn’t either.

    Hope all is well, Nittany.

    #88180
    zn
    Moderator

    I think the FBI has changed since Hoover.

    One example…the FBI no longer thinks left wing radicals are the biggest threat to the country. They now believe homegrown white wing extremist groups are the biggest threat (ie Michigan Militia, 3 Percenters, the various neo Nazi and Klan groups, etc.).

    Which is in direct opposition to the rightwing narrative that the biggest threats are illegal immigrants and Muslim extremists.

    Now, I’m not saying the FBI is completely trustworthy because I don’t think they are, but it is telling that they are no longer marching in lockstep with the rightwing.

    But wouldn’t you say they tilt conservative? I know that’s a huge generalization, and pretty much impossible to “prove.” But I don’t think Law Enforcement, the military, the intel spheres, etc. . . . have ever been big draws for us leftists.
    I’d bet the corporate world in general isn’t either.

    Hope all is well, Nittany.

    They have done this though. (2 articles).

    ***

    The F.B.I.’s Dangerous Crackdown on ‘Black Identity Extremists’

    Khaled A. Beydoun and Justin Hansford
    Nov. 15, 2017

    link: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/15/opinion/black-identity-extremism-fbi-trump.html

    An F.B.I. report leaked in October and scrutinized during an oversight hearing of the House Judiciary Committee on Tuesday warns of an emergent domestic terror threat sweeping the nation and threatening the lives of law enforcement officers: the “Black Identity Extremist” (“B.I.E.”) movement. This designation, just recently invented by the F.B.I., is as frightening and dangerous as the bureau’s infamous Cointelpro program of the 1960s and ’70s, under which J. Edgar Hoover set out to disrupt and destroy virtually any group with the word “black” in its name. Today, entirely nonviolent black activists face violations of their civil liberties and even violence if they’re deemed part of B.I.E.

    The 12-page report, prepared by the F.B.I. Domestic Terrorism Analysis Unit in August, and later made public by foreignpolicy.org, both announces the existence of the “Black Identity Extremist” movement and deems it a violent threat, asserting that black activists’ grievances about racialized police violence and inequities in the criminal justice system have spurred retaliatory violence against law enforcement officers. It links incidents of violence by a handful of individual citizens like Michael Johnson, who shot 11 Dallas police officers in July 2016, to “B.I.E. ideology” and predicts that “perceptions of unjust treatment of African-Americans and the perceived unchallenged illegitimate actions of law enforcement will inspire premeditated attacks against law enforcement.”

    This is fiction. Daryl Johnson, a former Department of Homeland Security intelligence agent, when asked by Foreign Policy in October why the F.B.I. would create the term “B.I.E.,” said, “I have no idea” and “I’m at a loss.” Michael German, a former F.B.I. agent and fellow with the Brennan Center for Justice’s liberty and national security program, said the “Black Identity Extremists” label simply represents an F.B.I. effort to define a movement where none exists. “Basically, it’s black people who scare them,” he said.
    “Could you name an African-American organization that has committed violence against police officers?” Representative Karen Bass asked Attorney General Jeff Sessions at Tuesday’s hearing. “Can you name one today that has targeted police officers in a violent manner?” It’s no surprise that he could not. Mr. Sessions, who confessed that he had not read the report, said he would need to “confirm” and would reply in writing at a later time. The F.B.I. itself admits in the report, that, even by its own definition, “B.I.E. violence has been rare over the past 20 years.”

    The Black Identity Extremist designation erroneously presumes a broad and disparate group of organizations with concerns about the criminal justice system represent a movement with a unifying ideology. This reflects ignorance — or denial — of the reality on the ground: There are dozens if not hundreds of groups with primarily black members that take issue with racial injustice but have distinct areas of focus, mandates, missions and memberships, and which are just as likely to conflict with one another as they are to overlap.

    Beyond that, the F.B.I.’s suggestion that people with “extreme black identities” may attack law enforcement officers has practical — and potentially deadly — consequences for those who are swept up under the newly created label. Although it’s unclear what actions the F.B.I. will take as a result of the report, the conclusions pave the way for it to gather data on, monitor and deploy informants to keep tabs on individuals and groups it believes to be B.I.E.s. This could chill and criminalize a wide array of nonviolent activism in ways that have terrifying echoes its infamous Cointelpro program, which investigated and intimidated black civil rights groups and leaders, including Marcus Garvey and the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Under this program, F.B.I. agents concocted a false internal narrative connecting Dr. King to foreign enemies, allowing agents to justify threatening to publicize his private life and encouraging him to commit suicide. This is a reminder that while the “Black Identity Extremist” designation is new, the strategy of using a vague definition to justify broad law enforcement action is not. The report’s labored efforts to link what it calls the “violent anti-white rhetoric” of today’s black organizations to “B.I.E. violence” that “peaked in the 1960s and 1970s” suggests a plan to use similar tactics to the “monitor, disrupt and divide” approach that it used against civil rights activists.

    The F.B.I.’s branding of individuals and groups troubled by racial injustice and police misconduct as dangerous “Black Identity Extremists” echoes and validates the way racist fringe groups on the right, like neo-Nazis or the K.K.K., see these activists. By encouraging the public to view groups like Black Lives Matter (which has offered a robust critique of systemic police violence against African-Americans and has organized peaceful direct actions but has no links to terrorism or violence) as a threat, the designation indirectly emboldens private violence against black activists. To make matters worse, the F.B.I. memo comes at a time of mounting white supremacy and white nationalism, and as the Trump administration has announced plans to cut Countering Violent Extremism funds to fight against white supremacists and neo-Nazis despite their having actual historical links to violence.

    Finally, the F.B.I. designation compounds the vulnerability of black Muslims, who make up the largest segment — at least 25 percent — of the Muslim population in the United States. Muslim communities are already the targets of counter-radicalization policing. Neighborhoods, campuses and institutions where black Muslims organize around racial justice and against police brutality could now be doubly scrutinized with double the threats to civil liberties, particularly as the Trump administration seeks to intensify counter-radicalization measures.

    In fact, the fabrication of a “B.I.E.” movement that could justify the F.B.I.’s marshaling of its counterterrorism capabilities against anyone who it decides fits the vague, baseless designation potentially threatens the civil liberties of all Americans. The Cointelpro program began with an effort to prevent the rise of a “black messiah who could unify and electrify the militant black nationalist movement” and evolved to target the American Indian Movement, the Brown Berets and those who protested against the Vietnam War. Similarly, the F.B.I.’s broadening of the “War on Terror” to include Black Identity Extremists in addition to the primary targets of that campaign — Muslims — could be just the beginning. It’s not hard to imagine that those who advocate for women’s rights, immigrant rights and other groups could be the subject of a fantasy “movement” in a future F.B.I. report.

    After years of silence, a Senate committee convened by Senator Frank Church of Idaho in 1975 finally revealed how deeply the Cointelpro program degraded American democracy by infiltrating and causing dissension within organizations, stoking rivalries, and even placing agent provocateurs inside protest movements to initiate violence. Lawmakers should pay the same attention to what the F.B.I. is doing today. Representative Bass’s Tuesday grilling of Mr. Sessions about the B.I.E. report was a start, but the issue demands more attention. Congress should hold formal hearings dedicated to the F.B.I.’s use of domestic terrorism resources and accompanying designations to target citizens who have done nothing more than express their desire for justice.

    ===

    Black activist jailed for his Facebook posts speaks out about secret FBI surveillance
    Exclusive: Rakem Balogun spoke out against police brutality. Now he is believed to be the first prosecuted under a secretive US effort to track so-called ‘black identity extremists’

    Sam Levin
    Fri 11 May 2018

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/11/rakem-balogun-interview-black-identity-extremists-fbi-surveillance

    Rakem Balogun thought he was dreaming when armed agents in tactical gear stormed his apartment. Startled awake by a large crash and officers screaming commands, he soon realized his nightmare was real, and he and his 15-year-old son were forced outside of their Dallas home, wearing only underwear.

    Handcuffed and shaking in the cold wind, Balogun thought a misunderstanding must have led the FBI to his door on 12 December 2017. The father of three said he was shocked to later learn that agents investigating “domestic terrorism” had been monitoring him for years and were arresting him that day in part because of his Facebook posts criticizing police.

    “It’s tyranny at its finest,” said Balogun, 34. “I have not been doing anything illegal for them to have surveillance on me. I have not hurt anyone or threatened anyone.”

    Balogun spoke to the Guardian this week in his first interview since he was released from prison after five months locked up and denied bail while US attorneys tried and failed to prosecute him, accusing him of being a threat to law enforcement and an illegal gun owner.

    Balogun, who lost his home and more while incarcerated, is believed to be the first person targeted and prosecuted under a secretive US surveillance effort to track so-called “black identity extremists”. In a leaked August 2017 report from the FBI’s Domestic Terrorism Analysis Unit, officials claimed that there had been a “resurgence in ideologically motivated, violent criminal activity” stemming from African Americans’ “perceptions of police brutality”.

    The counter-terrorism assessment provided minimal data or evidence of threats against police, but discussed a few isolated incidents, notably the case of Micah Johnson who killed five officers in Texas. The report sparked backlash from civil rights groups and some Democrats, who feared the government would use the broad designation to prosecute activists and groups like Black Lives Matter.

    Balogun, who was working full-time for an IT company when he was arrested, has long been an activist, co-founding Guerrilla Mainframe and the Huey P Newton Gun Club, two groups fighting police brutality and advocating for the rights of black gun owners. Some of the work included coordinating meals for the homeless, youth picnics and self-defense classes – but that’s not what interested the FBI.

    Investigators began monitoring Balogun, whose legal name is Christopher Daniels, after he participated in an Austin, Texas, rally in March 2015 protesting against law enforcement, special agent Aaron Keighley testified in court.

    The FBI, Keighley said, learned of the protest from a video on Infowars, a far-right site run by the commentator Alex Jones, known for spreading false news and conspiracy theories.

    The reference to Infowars stunned Balogun: “They’re using a conspiracy theorist video as a reason to justify their tyranny? That is a big insult.”

    Keighley made no mention of Balogun’s specific actions at the rally, but noted the marchers’ anti-police statements, such as “oink oink bang bang” and “the only good pig is a pig that’s dead”. The agent also mentioned Balogun’s Facebook posts calling a murder suspect in a police officer’s death a “hero” and expressing “solidarity” with the man who killed officers in Texas when he posted: “They deserve what they got.”

    Keighley, however, later admitted the FBI had no evidence of Balogun making any specific threats about harming police.

    At the time of his Facebook posts, Balogun said he was angry and “venting” about the high-profile cases of police killing innocent black men and women in America, including Alton Sterling and Philando Castile. He was particularly disgusted with the way the media and law enforcement officials portrayed the killings as justified and said that when he wrote those posts “I just mimicked their reactions to our killings.”

    In a letter Balogun wrote to the Guardian from jail, he said he felt he had been “abducted” by the FBI, a “prisoner of war on free speech and the right to bear arms”. Authorities were targeting him for promoting black-led community groups and fighting “government abuse”, he wrote, adding he was never a threat to anyone: “Violence is the method of our oppressor, our method is hard work, love and unity.”

    When he was arrested, police confiscated his .38-caliber handgun and an unloaded AK-style assault rifle – and also, he said, took his book Negroes with Guns by the civil rights leader Robert F Williams.

    “They were really desperate,” Balogun said. “This is pretty much like Stalin 1950 – ‘You show me the man. I show you the crime.’”

    The prosecution’s case eventually unraveled – but in the process, so did Balogun’s life.

    ‘Punished for political activity’

    The government’s own crime data has largely undermined the notion of a growing threat from a “black identity extremist” [BIE] movement, a term invented by law enforcement. In addition to an overall decline in police deaths, most individuals who shoot and kill officers are white men, and white supremacists have been responsible for nearly 75% of deadly extremist attacks since 2001.

    The BIE surveillance and failed prosecution of Balogun, first reported by Foreign Policy, have drawn comparisons to the government’s discredited efforts to monitor and disrupt activists during the civil rights movement, particularly the FBI counterintelligence program called Cointelpro, which targeted Martin Luther King Jr, the NAACP and the Black Panther party.

    Michael German, a former FBI agent and fellow with the Brennan Center for Justice’s liberty and national security program, said the BIE assessment was “extraordinarily overbroad” and that the concept was spreading to law enforcement agencies across the US as more black activists were facing surveillance and police harassment.

    Authorities have not publicly labeled Balogun a BIE, but their language in court resembled the warnings in the FBI’s file. German said the case also appeared to utilize a “disruption strategy” in which the FBI targets lower-level arrests and charges to interfere with suspects’ lives as the agency struggles to build terrorism cases.

    “Sometimes when you couldn’t prove somebody was a terrorist, it’s because they weren’t a terrorist,” he said, adding that prosecutors’ argument that Balogun was too dangerous to be released on bail was “astonishing”.

    “It seems this effort was designed to punish him for his political activity rather than actually solve any sort of security issue.”

    The official one-count indictment against Balogun was illegal firearm possession, with prosecutors alleging he was prohibited from owning a gun due to a 2007 misdemeanor domestic assault case in Tennessee. But this month, a judge rejected the charge, saying the firearms law did not apply.

    The US attorney’s office and the FBI declined to comment.

    For Balogun, who said that the Tennessee case stemmed from a dispute with a girlfriend and that he was pressured to plead guilty to get out of jail, the decision felt like a “victory”.

    But since his release one week ago, Balogun has also been forced to confront the harsh reality of life post-incarceration: he lost his vehicle, job and home; his son was forced to move and transfer schools and Balogun missed much of the first year of his newborn daughter’s life.

    “This has been a nightmare for my entire family,” he said, adding that he was still recovering from the monotony and isolation of incarceration: “It was like living like a dog confined to a small backyard.”

    Balogun said he also had to accept the fact that the government would probably continue to monitor to him and could seek new ways to disrupt his life. But the threat wouldn’t stop him from organizing and speaking out, he added: “As long as my community needs me to serve them, I’ll be there.”

    #88182
    wv
    Participant

    Thing is, they’ve been under Republican control since before it was even called the FBI. They’re famously right-wing, even hard right — which Trump is too.

    So, to me, the entire attempt to claim a “deep state conspiracy against Trump” is absurd (Not saying you’re doing this, WV). If it (the deep state) exists at all, the vast majority of it is going to be more sympathetic to Trump and the GOP than their political opponents.

    ===============

    Well but Trump isnt your garden-variety Republican is he. We know Trump has caused a lot of friction and waves with mainline-Reps, Like Bush for example. So I could see how a ‘deep state’ might have issues with a wacko who likes Putin.

    But as I’ve said before, my view of the ‘deep state’ is not the rightwing view. Their view is just political paranoid bullshit.

    w
    v

    #88184
    wv
    Participant

    I think the FBI has changed since Hoover.

    One example…the FBI no longer thinks left wing radicals are the biggest threat to the country. They now believe homegrown white wing extremist groups are the biggest threat (ie Michigan Militia, 3 Percenters, the various neo Nazi and Klan groups, etc.).

    Which is in direct opposition to the rightwing narrative that the biggest threats are illegal immigrants and Muslim extremists.

    Now, I’m not saying the FBI is completely trustworthy because I don’t think they are, but it is telling that they are no longer marching in lockstep with the rightwing.

    ===============

    Ok cool. We disagree on the FBI. I think they are as bad as ever, maybe worse.
    I think they are the System-Police. They protect the system. So they will attack ‘radicals’. On the left or on the right doesnt matter. They are political police.

    If they just stuck to chasing down serial killers I’d have no problem with them. But thats just what they do part-time.

    w
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