Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › The clause
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January 20, 2016 at 7:19 pm #37765wvParticipant
I’m real curious about this contract clause
that allowed Kronky to move the team.
If anyone
has any info, put it in this thread.
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http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/105561458/st-louis-rams-los-angeles-move-from-st-louis-inglewood
Will LeitchNeil deMause, purveyor of the indispensible website Field of Schemes and occasional contributor to Sports On Earth and Vice Sports, has a term for the St. Louis Rams’ current deal with the city of St. Louis at the Edward Jones Dome. He calls it “the worst lease ever.”
In an interview with Jim Nagourney, a consultant who was a party to the negotiations between the city and the team to bring the Rams to St. Louis back in the early ’90s, deMause writes about how the St. Louis city attorneys had no idea who they were dealing with, and just how outmatched they were. Says Nagourney: “I went to a meeting in Los Angeles one morning. We had a whiteboard, and we’re putting stuff down [to demand from cities]. And some of the stuff, I said, ‘Guys, some of this is crazy.’ And John Shaw, who was president of the Rams at the time — brilliant, brilliant guy — said, ‘They can always say no, let’s ask for it.'”
And St. Louis said yes to all of it. The city was so desperate for a team — still reeling from the loss of the football Cardinals, with civic leaders eager to show that their downtown could be revitalized again — that they agreed, essentially, to everything, including paying for a new dome entirely with public money. The deal was stacked against St. Louis in a number of ways — so many that when the baseball Cardinals (an infinitely more popular team locally) wanted a similar sweetheart deal for a stadium a few years later, they were unable to get one, so burned was everyone by the Rams’ debacle — but the worst, and the one most applicable to today’s situation, was the “state of the art” clause. It required St. Louis taxpayers not only to pay for the whole stadium themselves, but also pony up for premium upkeep. The Edward Jones Dome had to rank in “the top 25 percent of NFL stadiums” to meet the lease agreement. If it fell below that (as it inevitably would have to, particularly considering 20 stadiums have been built since the Edward Jones Dome), St. Louisans would have to build them another one, “when the paint is barely dry from the first one,” as deMause put it.
St. Louis obviously didn’t build the Rams a new stadium, so the Rams are gonna break the lease, and now they’re threatening to move. This was a situation entirely born out of desperation 20 years ago. And here we are again.
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This morning, The Los Angeles Times reported that Rams owner Stan Kroenke, the beneficiary of this ridiculous deal, plans to build an NFL stadium in the Inglewood neighborhood of Los Angeles, kick-starting the already fervid sprint to get a team back in Los Angeles by 2016. The Rams, the Raiders and the Chargers, all with “outdated” stadiums and eager for leverage, have been elbowing themselves for Los Angeles position for a few years now, but Kroenke — who bought up 60 acres near the Forum last year and has united with a local developer so he can control enough space for a stadium and parking — now has the inside position.
It’s a power move, not just for the rest of the NFL (which now has a clear favorite to fill the long-standing Los Angeles vacancy), but for Kroenke against St. Louis. Kroenke owned 40 percent of the Rams when the 1995 move went down, and he bought out the rest in 2010 from the family of the late Georgia Frontiere. (He also is a majority owner of Arsenal, and he handed over control of the Denver Nuggets and Colorado Avalanche to his son, Josh, when the Rams deal was in the works.) Kroenke has all the power now, and has put himself in an ideal situation to get whatever he wants.
The Los Angeles market is one that every owner with anything resembling an out clause in his/her deal has tried to corner, but it’s worth nothing that the city of Los Angeles is coming into this from a position of strength. According to the LA Times, no taxpayer money is expected to be used for the new stadium or its construction — though, to be fair, developers always say that. (Supposedly it would only require a ballot initiative, one that could happen this year.) Of course, Los Angeles doesn’t feel like it has to pay for a new stadium: The last 20 years have been rather solid evidence that Los Angeles is able to exist just fine without an NFL team, thank you very much.
This leverage, just as it was 20 years ago, is being used against St. Louis. In November, Missouri governor Jay Nixon, who has had a rather tumultuous few months, appointed former Anheuser-Busch president Dave Peacock to head up the city and state’s attempts to keep the Rams in St. Louis. (January 28 is the deadline for the Rams to inform the city whether they’re going to a year-to-year lease.) This has led some in St. Louis to believe that Peacock is here to save the day.
January 20, 2016 at 7:25 pm #37768znModeratorno taxpayer money is expected to be used for the new stadium or its construction
That one keeps coming up, and, many people say it’s just not entirely true. What SK WILL get is exemptions, which means that while the city has to do things like handle the traffic, the streets, environmental impact, and so on, they don’t get the direct tax revenue that they do from other businesses.
It’s hard to be too clear about that because I haven’t studied it. It’s just a point that I see keeps coming up.
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January 20, 2016 at 7:25 pm #37769wvParticipantTales of city mismanagement: How the St. Louis Rams won their sweetheart lease
Posted on July 26, 2010 by Neil deMauseTim Sullivan’s column in Saturday’s San Diego Union-Tribune was dedicated to an important but too-often overlooked topic: how city governments really need some professional help in negotiating stadium deals.
Writes Sullivan:
The one voice we most need to hear is dispassionate and discerning, tactical and tough, more measured than “whatever it takes,” less defiant than “over my dead body,” and carefully positioned in nobody’s pocket. Someone able to joust with the National Football League across a quasi-level bargaining table.
At least one stadium expert agrees, telling Sullivan that “I think it’s pretty clear looking back at history that city officials typically get rings run around them by teams,” and adding by way of examples:
“That state-of-the-art clause the Rams have, they were just throwing stuff in there and they were amazed when St. Louis actually went for it. When Washington, D.C., was sitting down with the Major League Baseball Relocation committee, (the city) said they were thinking in terms of two-thirds public, one-third private (funding). (White Sox owner) Jerry Reinsdorf said, ‘We were thinking more three-thirds, no-thirds.’”
Okay, in case you haven’t figured it out yet, that’s me that Sullivan is quoting. But while the three-thirds/no-thirds story has been reported here before, the bit about the Rams’ surprise success at getting lease concessions from St. Louis comes from an interview I recently conducted with Jim Nagourney, a now-retired sports facility manager and consultant who was in the room when it happened.
Nagourney was working as an ad marketer for Anaheim Stadium, he explains, when he was hired away by the Rams as a consultant on their relocation plans. “I went to a meeting in Los Angeles one morning. We had a whiteboard, and we’re putting stuff down [to demand from cities]. And some of the stuff, I said, ‘Guys, some of this is crazy.’ And John Shaw, who was president of the Rams at the time — brilliant, brilliant guy — said, ‘They can always say no, let’s ask for it.’”
The result, he says, was “probably the most scandalous deal in the country,” one that notoriously included a clause requiring the team’s new stadium to remain “state-of-the-art,” or else the team could break its lease and leave. (“That was John,” says Nagourney of the state-of-the-art clause.) “The city was poorly represented — the city is always poorly represented,” says Nagourney. “And John Shaw was a brilliant negotiator. And we put in all of these ridiculous things, and the city didn’t have the sense to say no to any of them.”
The reason this dynamic happens, over and over, is simple, says Nagourney: “A city attorney is not going to know where the money really is. They’re not going to understand advertising, they’re not going to understand concessions — just a whole range of issues that the team officials intimately understand. They know where the dollars are, and the municipal attorneys do not.” On top of that, he says, city officials get “stars in their eyes. It’s their first time dealing with celebrities. They’re just so enamored with the fact that ‘I’m dealing with people who get their name on Page Six.’”
Add in perks like free luxury suites and the promise players showing up at political appearances, says Nagourney, and “they just lose all sense of proportion.”
So, Sullivan is dead right that cities could use negotiating assistance in stadium deals. The problem is that the very reasons why they’re lousy negotiators are the same ones keeping them from seeking help in the first place.
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U-T San Diego columnist: I was fired for not being “positive” enough about stadium dealsThis entry was posted in St. Louis Rams by Neil deMause. Bookmark the permalink.
January 20, 2016 at 7:32 pm #37770wvParticipant——————
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/news/archives/2008/05/3359_stl_stadium_chi.html
May 30 2008
This is an archived version of a Field of Schemes article. Comments on this page are closed. To find the current version of the article with updated comments, click here.May 30, 2008
StL stadium chief: Replace dome, or lose Rams
Thirteen years ago, the city of St. Louis lured the then-Los Angeles Rams to their city by building the TWA Dome (now the Edward Jones Dome), entirely with public money. As we wrote at the time in the first edition of Field of Schemes, the total subsidy would end up amounting to $1.07 billion over 30 years:
That amounts to a public cost of $36 million a year, while the Rams’ annual revenues are expected to leap by more than $15 million. And according to the team’s brand-new lease, if the stadium does not remain among the most lavish in football for another ten years, the Rams can then leave town for more lucrative turf – or demand further improvements.
Cut to the front page of today’s St. Louis Post-Dispatch:
If St. Louis intends to meet its lease agreement by providing the Rams with a venue that ranks in the top 25 percent of the NFL by 2015, the city – and the taxpayers – must commit to building a state-of-the-art stadium. One in which the cost could hit 10 figures.
So says Convention and Visitors Commission Chairman Dan Dierdorf publicly, as do several other principals privately.
The NFL stadiums under construction in Indianapolis; Arlington, Texas; and East Rutherford, N.J., are “going to be the cream of the crop, and they’re going to be no more than five or six years old” by 2015, Dierdorf said. “What do you do to a 20-year-old building to make it the equal of a brand-new $1 billion stadium?”
This, in a nutshell, is why so-called “state-of-the-art” clauses in stadium deals are a nightmare for cities, and a boon to team owners. The only thing the people of St. Louis are getting in exchange for their $36 million a year (plus $30 million in renovations currently underway) is the presence of a football team for 30 years – thanks to that well-placed clause, though, they’re now facing another round of stadium blackmail when the paint is barely dry from the first one. (In case anyone failed to get the message, the Post-Dispatch noted that Rams owner Chip Rosenbloom revealed he has been “approached by several people” about selling the team and relocating it elsewhere.) In Cincinnati, the Bengals lease is even more onerous, specifying that the county must install any new technologies in use by 14 other NFL teams, up to and including “holographic replay systems.”
“I don’t think anybody could’ve imagined that the boom in stadium development would’ve happened,” Rams lawyer Bob Wallace told the P-D. Clearly somebody did on the Rams’ side, though, or else they wouldn’t have thought to insert that clause into the lease. The trick now will be for St. Louis to avoid having to be on the hook for yet another stadium before it’s even paid off half the old one.
Posted by Neil deMause
January 20, 2016 at 7:43 pm #37771wvParticipantFwiw, looks like the Cincy lawyers didnt know what they were doing either.
From the same field of Schemes blog.
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Bengals’ 16-year-old stadium could end up costing taxpayers around $1 billion
Posted on January 19, 2016 by Neil deMauseHamilton County’s lease deal with the Cincinnati Bengals is bad. Real bad. There’s the requirement that the county pay to add such items as “holographic replay systems” in the event they’re ever invented, for starters — but also plenty of items costing taxpayers plenty of money here in the actual present. How much money, you ask?
Hamilton County taxpayers have spent more than $920 million since 2000 as part of a deal to build and operate Paul Brown Stadium…
By the time 2026 rolls around and the 26-year lease between the team and the county expires, the county will have spent more than $1.1 billion on the deal for the Bengals to play in Cincinnati.
Now, some of that is financing costs — a little over a third of the stadium costs are interest payments, which are really a cost of deciding to push payments out into the future, and so pretty much a wash in present dollars (where “present” is defined as the stadium’s opening in 2000). But much of it is not, including a new requirement that the county start paying about $2.7 million a year in stadium operating costs next year, because expecting a massively profitable pro sports franchise ($55.5m in profits last year alone, according to Forbes) to pay to clean its own bathrooms is just crazy talk. Here’s a handy chart provided by WCPO-TV:
Screen Shot 2016-01-06 at 12.03.29 PM_1452099867537_29456359_ver1.0_640_480Even if you don’t count the interest payments, that’s about $650 million so far, with tens if not hundreds of millions more to come over the next ten years. By which point the Bengals will almost certainly be demanding a new stadium, or at least a new lease with further upgrades to what will then be a 26-year-old venue. You really have to hope that this time county officials will pay attention to the fine print, but probably not.
January 20, 2016 at 7:54 pm #37772znModerator“I don’t think anybody could’ve imagined that the boom in stadium development would’ve happened,” Rams lawyer Bob Wallace told the P-D.
Interestingly, the Rams fired Wallace.
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January 20, 2016 at 10:23 pm #37775OzonerangerParticipantBillionaires roll politicians in this country. That’s obvious. Get some country podunk against a ruthless guy like Shaw…game over. As we have seen.
I wonder if Donald Trump (No, I cannot stand that guy) could roll Vladimir Putin?
January 23, 2016 at 2:50 pm #37931znModeratorThere’s still different versions of this.
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FROM How St. Louis lost the Rams
David Hunn, Jim Thomas
http://theramshuddle.com/topic/relocationthe-move-121/#post-37928
At the end of 1994, St. Louis had just lost its bid for an expansion franchise. James Orthwein, a Busch heir, had sold the New England Patriots — the region’s backup plan — to business magnate Robert Kraft. And a downtown football stadium was one-third built.
The Rams were months into negotiations with regional leaders hoping to lure the team east.
In November, attorneys for all sides met in secret in La Jolla, Calif., a tony beachside neighborhood north of San Diego.
Rams President Shaw was worried about stadium upkeep. It was a problem in Anaheim, where the team had played since 1980. He knew St. Louis hadn’t funded a new stadium for the football Cardinals, who had fled to Phoenix seven years earlier. He didn’t want such issues to become a problem if the Rams moved to St. Louis.
In Shaw’s mind it wasn’t as much physical obsolescence as economic: A team’s ability to make money was rapidly changing. Club seats, luxury suites and other extras were cutting edge, as were in-house advertising and stadium naming rights.
Shaw told his attorneys before they met in La Jolla to make sure the St. Louis stadium could adapt to changing revenue streams.
Three main parties were negotiating the lease. Greg Smith represented the St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission, which would run the dome. Attorney Richard Riezman and his firm, then called Riezman & Blitz, spoke for FANS Inc., the group of civic leaders trying to lure the team. The Rams were represented primarily by L.A. attorneys Milt Hyman and Marty Gelfand, as well as sports consultant Marc Ganis.
It’s unclear who introduced the now-infamous “first-tier” clause, which required the stadium to be among the top eight facilities in the league after each 10-year increment. Shaw and Ganis have both said the Rams brought it up. Most say they now forget. Some think it was actually a St. Louis attorney.
“It might surprise you, but I favored it,” said former convention center director Bruce Sommer. “I had been managing the Kiel and St. Louis arena. I learned that if the public owns it, likely they’ll never put another dime into it. And in a number of years, it won’t be a very good facility.”
But regional leaders refused to guarantee a dollar figure on the upgrades — they didn’t want to commit future tax dollars.
The parties went back and forth on the subject.
At one point in negotiations, Hyman pushed away from the table. “‘Guys, do I need to remind you? There’s only one NFL corporation that wants to move,’” Sommer recalls him saying. Then Hyman pulled his chair back to the table. “‘Now let’s get reasonable.’”
The St. Louisans had little choice, Sommer said. “What are we going to do, sit here with an empty $300 million stadium, and be the laughingstock of the country?”
Neither Hyman nor Gelfand returned calls seeking comment.
In the end, they worked out a deal that allowed the Rams to leave the dome if the parties couldn’t agree on top-tier upgrades and arbitrators ruled in their favor.
“Believe me, I tried to convince the St. Louis parties not to do it even though I was representing the Rams,” Ganis said. “I knew then, and I explained to them then, that this was going to be a major mistake they were making. I told them.”
“We weren’t looking to be pigs,” he continued. “We just wanted the building updated on a regular basis over 30 years. That’s all we were looking for. We knew that St. Louis was a challenging market compared to many of the other markets in the NFL. So we had to have a first-class building.”
Smith, the convention center attorney, chuckled some last week when asked about the clause. It didn’t, then, really seem like something they had to worry about.
“My recollection,” he said, “was we thought we had plenty of time to figure that out.”
January 24, 2016 at 1:43 pm #37995bnwBlockedThe articles say a few paragraphs in hundreds of pages of the lease is what doomed St. Louis chances to keep the Rams. I would like to see the language. I know how thats been interpreted over the years meaning bells and whistles within the dome. Yet I know the dome has been said to have the most lucrative profits going to the team for all game day expenditures in the NFL. Since money is so important to the NFL why wasn’t that considered to be within the top 25% of stadiums metric?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
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