the circular firing squad: Sanders v. Warren supporters

” we need to lower the costs of care itself, not just the insurance covering it. This can’t happen in a hybrid system of public coverage for for-profit care. It’s just a really bad match. The two sides of the equation have radically different interests, and they’re at odds.”

I think that point was made clear in the article I attached.

Mackeyser wrote:

wv wrote:

“… for establishment centrists, Warren was emerging as an acceptable alternative to Sanders…”

Yeah, and this is exactly what i expected. They’d love Biden, but if they think Biden cant win, they’d hold their nose and support Warren.

Anyone but Bernie for the centrists.

One wonders if they’d support Trump over Bernie?

w
v

Well, they did before, in large numbers.

I’ll just put this out there.

Trump is GOING to get re-elected because the DNC is feckless. Bernie NEVER had a chance and the DNC would rather fundraise another four years on Trump’s tweets than actually engage in representative democracy that is responsible to the constituent base as opposed to corporate donors. That’s why campaign finance was never going to happen.

I really tried for a minute to hold out hope for a Bernie candidacy, but when the DNC argues in open court that they do not have a fiduciary responsibility to the Bernie supporters who gave money and that they can use the money in any way they like and appoint a candidate in a backroom if they choose because violating their charter is not criminal… well, that was game over.

I’m glad Bernie is running insofar as he is the gravity to keep this from being a 1981 Republican vs a 2019 Trumpian, but unfortunately, I’m not sure even the gravity of a black hole could move the Dems to the actual center left, let alone to the left (Bernie being on the Center left and all).

Oh, also, hi all. Mea culpa, I’m an ass for not posting… at all. Between medical issues and my damned “outta sight, outta mind” functioning, I’m just terrible at communicating, it seems.

Hope this little ray of sunshine finds all of you well. Only the ray of sunshine is meant sarcastically, of course.

I don’t think the Dems are “feckless” . Just not in tune with most citizens. Here’s an article by Peter Schuck, an emeritus professor of law at Yale. It addresses how the democratic nominees commit “political suicide” when most, if not all, agreed with Harris that people in the country undocumented and who had not committed any crimes should not be deported. The article provides avenues to expand our immigration policies but at the same time not to endanger our sovereignty

IMO Trump is so bad and dangerous to our institutions and to democracy itself that the 2020 election is so important it no longer should be a matter of choosing one you “agree” with but rather someone who can take on and beat the SOB. But are the Dems smart enough to see that ?

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-schuck-immigration-open-borders-democratic-debate-20190702-story.html

waterfield wrote:

Here’s another article -this one by a conservative columnist-on how the Dems can and likely will hand the election to Trump by “openly praising socialism, the Green New Deal, the abolition of private insurance, voting rights for incarcerated felons, federal funding of abortion late into pregnancy, confiscatory “wealth taxes”, and even the right to sex-change operations paid for by taxpayers.”

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-hillary-clinton-democrats-left-20190702-story.html

James Carville would be the first to call it the real “political suicide”. The party needs to open their eyes and realize there are so many republican voters (not those in Congress) who want to dump Trump and would vote for a Dem nominee-but advocating for the above won’t do it for them. Moreover that segment of voters that stayed home in 2016-namely the African American voter-won’t accept those policies either. And we do need those voters to counter the “deplorables” that Trump will be driving to the poles especially if the Dems are advancing the above policies. Talk about “political suicide”. We just don’t get it !

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Well basically what i hear you saying is, “the Dems can only win if they put up a ‘centrist’ against Trump.”

You may be right. Or, you just may be selectively seeing things that way because ‘you’ want a centrist President/candidate.

I dunno.

This country may very well be so far in the toilet that an FDR-type Dem cant win. Could be that only more Clinton-Corporatists are on the way.

My own view is too dark for long posts anymore 🙂

I was visiting Cape May in New Jersey a few weeks ago. And i walked along a boardwalk and chatted with a lot of young folks working at all the little touristy-shops. Lots of foreign kids were spending their summers in America, working at the beach. Girls from Croatia, boys from Sweden, etc. Everyone I talked to had an accent. So anyway, I asked them about Americans. There was a consensus among the foreign kidz — Americans are very stupid, and they ‘dont care.’

Stupid, and, they dont care. (about the environment, etc)

I agreed with them. Cept, I understand ‘why’ American are ‘stupid’ and ‘dont care’.

Corporate-Capitalism made them stupid and selfish.

At any rate, you may very well be right. Stupid, Selfish, Propagandized Americans may very well only vote for a Trump or a Centrist.

Btw, its good to see you and Mack on the lil Board. We’re all gettin Old.
Did you ever get a new Dog?

w
v

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by wv.

wv wrote:

waterfield wrote:

Here’s another article -this one by a conservative columnist-on how the Dems can and likely will hand the election to Trump by “openly praising socialism, the Green New Deal, the abolition of private insurance, voting rights for incarcerated felons, federal funding of abortion late into pregnancy, confiscatory “wealth taxes”, and even the right to sex-change operations paid for by taxpayers.”

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-goldberg-hillary-clinton-democrats-left-20190702-story.html

James Carville would be the first to call it the real “political suicide”. The party needs to open their eyes and realize there are so many republican voters (not those in Congress) who want to dump Trump and would vote for a Dem nominee-but advocating for the above won’t do it for them. Moreover that segment of voters that stayed home in 2016-namely the African American voter-won’t accept those policies either. And we do need those voters to counter the “deplorables” that Trump will be driving to the poles especially if the Dems are advancing the above policies. Talk about “political suicide”. We just don’t get it !

==============

Well basically what i hear you saying is, “the Dems can only win if they put up a ‘centrist’ against Trump.”

You may be right. Or, you just may be selectively seeing things that way because ‘you’ want a centrist President/candidate.

I dunno.

This country may very well be so far in the toilet that an FDR-type Dem cant win. Could be that only more Clinton-Corporatists are on the way.

My own view is too dark for long posts anymore

I was visiting Cape May in New Jersey a few weeks ago. And i walked along a boardwalk and chatted with a lot of young folks working at all the little touristy-shops. Lots of foreign kids were spending their summers in America, working at the beach. Girls from Croatia, boys from Sweden, etc. Everyone I talked to had an accent. So anyway, I asked them about Americans. There was a consensus among the foreign kidz — Americans are very stupid, and they ‘dont care.’

Stupid, and, they dont care. (about the environment, etc)

I agreed with them. Cept, I understand ‘why’ American are ‘stupid’ and ‘dont care’.

Corporate-Capitalism made them stupid and selfish.

At any rate, you may very well be right. Stupid, Selfish, Propagandized Americans may very well only vote for a Trump or a Centrist.

Btw, its good to see you and Mack on the lil Board. We’re all gettin Old.
Did you ever get a new Dog?

w
v

I’ve had the same Springer Spaniel for 8 yrs. Her b/d is the same as mine. Yes I do want a centrist to run but the reason is because I believe that is the only chance Trump can be beaten. I also believe that kids these days have lost or never had a real sense of values. But I don’t think that’s the fault of corporations. I’ve said this often: the adults that should be having children are not and those who shouldn’t are. To me that explains more than Corporacracy.

zn wrote:

waterfield wrote:

I also believe that kids these days have lost or never had a real sense of values.

I just don’t see that at all. Even in the least. Speaking as the father of 2 20-somethings plus the father-in-law of 2 more 20-somethings. I have some familiarity with their world and to me, it’s not what you’re describing. So fwiw we’re just experiencing that whole question (kids these days) differently.

…

==================
What do you think of Eliz Warren? And Tulsi?

w
v

wv wrote:

I agreed with them. Cept, I understand ‘why’ American are ‘stupid’ and ‘dont care’.

Corporate-Capitalism made them stupid and selfish.

w
v

I’m probably over-generalizing here but I think Europeans are more community-centered than Americans. Americans tend towards individualism.

Europeans travel a lot more than Americans. Visiting other countries gives you a whole new perspective on things. It promotes thinking globally. It helps you care about how stuff impacts other people.