Teams Will be Fined if Players Kneel During National Anthem

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  • #86496
    zn
    Moderator

    N.F.L. Teams Will be Fined if Players Kneel During National Anthem

    link; https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/23/sports/nfl-anthem-kneeling.html

    N.F.L. players will be allowed to stay in the locker room during the national anthem, but their teams will be fined by the league if they go onto the field and kneel, according to new rules adopted by owners on Wednesday in an effort to defuse an issue that escalated last season into a national debate catalyzed by President Trump.

    Players had previously been required to be on the field for the anthem. Commissioner Roger Goodell said that owners voted unanimously to rescind that rule and to fine teams if their players are on the field or sidelines but do not “show respect for the flag and the anthem.”

    At least one owner, Jed York of the 49ers, said his team abstained in the vote.

    “It was unfortunate that on-field protests created a false perception among many that thousands of N.F.L. players were unpatriotic,” Goodell said in a statement. “This is not and was never the case.”

    Christopher Johnson, the chairman and C.E.O. of the Jets, said the team would not punish players who choose to kneel during the anthem, despite the cost.

    “There will be no club fines or suspensions or any sort of repercussions,” Johnson told Newsday. “If the team gets fined, that’s just something I’ll have to bear.”

    The new policy was adopted at the league’s spring meeting in Atlanta without involvement from the players’ union. It is unclear how individual players will respond to the new rules.

    “Our union will review the new ‘policy’ and challenge any aspect of it that is inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement,” the union said in a statement.

    The San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick began kneeling for the anthem in the 2016 season to protest racism and police brutality. He was soon joined by several teammates and dozens of other players around the N.F.L., continuing into last season.

    While some fans applauded the protests, many others were critical, saying the players were disrespecting the country. Among them was President Trump, who declared last September on Twitter, “Sports fans should never condone players that do not stand proud for their National Anthem or their Country. NFL should change policy!”

    The protests were also discomfiting to largely conservative N.F.L. owners. Kaepernick has filed a grievance saying he was blackballed by league owners; no team offered him a job after he left the 49ers. Another former 49ers player, safety Eric Reid, has done the same.

    The new policy states that “a club will be fined by the league if its personnel are on the field and do not stand and show respect for the flag and the anthem.” It does not elaborate whether other types of protests, like raised fists, would be considered a show of respect.

    Steelers owner Art Rooney said after the vote that raising a fist or linking arms during the anthem, as some players have done, would be considered disrespectful.

    Here is the new policy, as stated by the league:

    • All team and league personnel on the field shall stand and show respect for the flag and the anthem.

    • The Game Operations Manual will be revised to remove the requirement that all players be on the field for the anthem.

    • Personnel who choose not to stand for the anthem may stay in the locker room or in a similar location off the field until after the anthem has been performed.

    • A club will be fined by the League if its personnel are on the field and do not stand and show respect for the flag and the anthem.

    • Each club may develop its own work rules, consistent with the above principles, regarding its personnel who do not stand and show respect for the flag and the anthem.

    • The Commissioner will impose appropriate discipline on league personnel who do not stand and show respect for the flag and the anthem.

    N.F.L. owners, players and executives met in October to discuss the anthem issue. According to an audio recording obtained by The New York Times, players wanted to talk about Kaepernick’s case, while owners were more concerned about how to avoid negative publicity around the issue of kneeling during the anthem.

    “The problem we have is, we have a president who will use that as fodder to do his mission that I don’t feel is in the best interests of America,” said Robert K. Kraft, the Patriots owner and a longtime supporter of Trump’s. “It’s divisive and it’s horrible.”

    Houston Texans owner Bob McNair told players they should talk to their teammates who kneel: “You fellas need to ask your compadres, fellas, stop that other business, let’s go out and do something that really produces positive results, and we’ll help you.”

    #86498
    zn
    Moderator

    #86499
    Zooey
    Moderator

    I would just say that they can stop all the kneeling during the national anthem if they would just fine police officers for kneeling on the throats of unarmed black people who aren’t resisting arrest.

    #86500
    Agamemnon
    Moderator

    Agamemnon

    #86501
    Zooey
    Moderator

    Seriously. A local radio station was talking yesterday about 5 different ways to respond to the players kneeling.

    None of those involved addressing the cause of the protest, you can be sure. Nobody talks about WHY they are kneeling. Only about how to stop it. Cuz…you know…kneeling during the national anthem is the Big Problem. Not black people getting shot.

    #86504
    zn
    Moderator

    from NFLPA issues statement in response to NFL’s new national anthem policy
    The player’s union plans to make sure the CBA isn’t violated under these new rules

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nflpa-issues-statement-in-response-to-nfls-new-national-anthem-policy/

    In response, the NFLPA complained that the union or its players were not consulted ahead of the rules changed, and that the union will monitor and “challenge” any inconsistencies in the application of the new rules as it pertains to the CBA.

    The NFL chose to not consult the union in the development of this new “policy.” NFL players have shown their patriotism through their social activism, their community service, in support of our military and law enforcement and yes, through their protests to raise awareness about the issues they care about.
    The vote by NFL club CEOs today contradicts the statements made to our player leadership by Commissioner Roger Goodell and the Chairman of the NFL’s Management Council John Mara about the principles, values and patriotism of our League.
    Our union will review the new “policy” and challenge any aspect of it that is inconsistent with the collective bargaining agreement.

    #86505
    wv
    Participant

    Jets taking a different approach:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23585906/new-york-jets-ceo-discourage-players-kneeling-nfl-new-anthem-policy

    “…..Despite a unanimously approved league policy that requires players to stand if they’re on the field during the national anthem, New York Jets CEO Christopher Johnson said Wednesday he won’t discourage players from kneeling even if it results in the club being fined by the NFL.

    “As I have in the past, I will support our players wherever we land as a team,” Johnson said in a statement, adding that he intends to meet with coach Todd Bowles and the players to discuss the league’s decision. “Our focus is not on imposing any club rules, fines or restrictions.”..see link

    #86512
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Jets taking a different approach:http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23585906/new-york-jets-ceo-discourage-players-kneeling-nfl-new-anthem-policy

    “…..Despite a unanimously approved league policy that requires players to stand if they’re on the field during the national anthem, New York Jets CEO Christopher Johnson said Wednesday he won’t discourage players from kneeling even if it results in the club being fined by the NFL.

    “As I have in the past, I will support our players wherever we land as a team,” Johnson said in a statement, adding that he intends to meet with coach Todd Bowles and the players to discuss the league’s decision. “Our focus is not on imposing any club rules, fines or restrictions.”..see link

    The Jets just became my second favorite team.

    #86513
    zn
    Moderator

    #86515
    zn
    Moderator

    Vincent Bonsignore@DailyNewsVinny
    By pouring $ and resources into a partnership to address social injustice, the #NFL told players it heard them loud and clear during their peaceful protest and are willing to fight with them. That gives them the right to ask them to stand during anthem

    We get so caught up in emotion and distrust we completely lose sight of the players victory. What else is protest for if not to shed light on an injustice and rally support to fix it?

    The players protested, the owners heard them, and are now helping them push beyond protest to actual action. That’s a win for players

    The victory is $90m and the resources and platform of the #NFL to now go into communities and try to and fix the actual problem.

    #86520
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    Just stupid. Fining teams, players, or anyone. The NFL is backing down to Trump. That is sad.

    #86526
    zn
    Moderator

    #86531
    Herzog
    Participant

    Miss that dude

    #86541
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    Kapernick

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by JackPMiller.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by JackPMiller.
    #86545
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    KapernickNFL.jpg

    #86548
    RamsMaineiac
    Keymaster

    Any words from Kroenke on this yet. He obviously voted for it.

    I am at a point where I may be done with watching the games at all. I forget where I read it, but someone wrote that it used you be the American ideal to stand up to authoritarianism, and now we seem to allow for it and, in many cases, embrace it. All I can say is if this was my local restaurant behaving like this, I would stop going to my local restaurant. How is providing support to the NFL any different.

    #86562
    InvaderRam
    Moderator

    part of me thinks the jets owner is taking the stance only because he knows it won’t cost him money being in new york city. i wouldn’t be surprised if kroenke takes a similar stance being in los angeles.

    #86567
    zn
    Moderator

    NFL conflict over anthem rules: ‘It’s just beginning’

    Howard Bryant, author, Senior Writer at ESPN and NPR Sports Correspondent, talks with Chuck over the “culture war conversation” surrounding the NFL’s new policy and why the league thinks “they believe they can profit off of this.”

    #86574
    Zooey
    Moderator

    Vincent Bonsignore@DailyNewsVinny
    By pouring $ and resources into a partnership to address social injustice, the #NFL told players it heard them loud and clear during their peaceful protest and are willing to fight with them. That gives them the right to ask them to stand during anthem

    We get so caught up in emotion and distrust we completely lose sight of the players victory. What else is protest for if not to shed light on an injustice and rally support to fix it?

    The players protested, the owners heard them, and are now helping them push beyond protest to actual action. That’s a win for players

    The victory is $90m and the resources and platform of the #NFL to now go into communities and try to and fix the actual problem.

    Seems like a non sequiter to say that because the NFL is “pouring” money into “a partnership” that it gives them the right to “ask.” There is not an agreed upon relationship between the two. Know how I know? Because the NFL isn’t “asking.” It’s threatening the players.

    Secondly, what injustice, Vincent? Why can’t you NAME it? Why does the cause they are kneeling for rarely get spoken about, and never clearly? Why doesn’t anybody actually address the issue?

    #86576
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Good Op Ed, from a surprising source:

    Excerpt:

    It is right to decry this culture of intolerance and advocate for civility and engagement instead of boycotts and reprisals. The cure for bad speech is better speech — not censorship. Take that message to the heartland, and conservatives cheer.

    Until, that is, Colin Kaepernick chose to kneel. Until, that is, the president demanded that the N.F.L. fire the other players who picked up on his protest after he was essentially banished from the league.

    That was when the conservative mob called for heads to roll. Conform or face the consequences.

    On Wednesday, the mob won. The N.F.L. announced its anthem rules for 2018, and the message was clear: Respect the flag by standing for the national anthem or stay in the locker room. If you break the rules and kneel, your team can be fined for your behavior.

    This isn’t a “middle ground,” as the N.F.L. claims. It’s not a compromise. It’s corporate censorship backed up with a promise of corporate punishment. It’s every bit as oppressive as the campus or corporate attacks on expression that conservatives rightly decry.

    You have 4 free articles remaining.
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    But this is different, they say. This isn’t about politics. It’s about the flag.

    I agree. It is different. Because it’s about the flag, the censorship is even worse.

    One of the most compelling expressions of America’s constitutional values is contained in Justice Robert Jackson’s 1943 majority opinion in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette. At the height of World War II, two sisters, both Jehovah’s Witnesses, challenged the state’s mandate that they salute the flag in school. America was locked in a struggle for its very existence. The outcome was in doubt. National unity was essential.

    But even in the darkest days of war, the court wrote liberating words that echo in legal history: “If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”

    #86577
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Vincent Bonsignore@DailyNewsVinny
    By pouring $ and resources into a partnership to address social injustice, the #NFL told players it heard them loud and clear during their peaceful protest and are willing to fight with them. That gives them the right to ask them to stand during anthem

    We get so caught up in emotion and distrust we completely lose sight of the players victory. What else is protest for if not to shed light on an injustice and rally support to fix it?

    The players protested, the owners heard them, and are now helping them push beyond protest to actual action. That’s a win for players

    The victory is $90m and the resources and platform of the #NFL to now go into communities and try to and fix the actual problem.

    Seems like a non sequiter to say that because the NFL is “pouring” money into “a partnership” that it gives them the right to “ask.” There is not an agreed upon relationship between the two. Know how I know? Because the NFL isn’t “asking.” It’s threatening the players.

    Secondly, what injustice, Vincent? Why can’t you NAME it? Why does the cause they are kneeling for rarely get spoken about, and never clearly? Why doesn’t anybody actually address the issue?

    Lost in all of this is that the same people who bash the players for their (silent, non-violent) dissent, likely were all in when Cliven Bundy, and later, his son, armed themselves and faced down the Gubmint over the most bogus of reasons: They wanted to continue using public lands at no cost to themselves, as if that were their right, and their history was to abuse that land, start fires, over-graze, destroy, etc. etc.

    It seems “dissent” is perfectly fine, even armed dissent, if it’s one’s own “team” doing it. And for a certain segment of white America, that doesn’t include people of color. They’re not “real Americans” so they don’t get to protest, even silently, non-violently, un-armed.

    #86578
    Billy_T
    Participant

    And, of course, Zooey, you’re right about the most important thing here: The protest was/is against police brutality and systemic racism, not about the flag or the anthem . . . . even though I think the anthem should be a part of the protest. It’s written by a slaveholder who later tried to defend his fellow slaveholders in court. The third verse actually celebrates the killing of slaves. We can do better as a nation in our choices.

    It still surprises me that black players haven’t brought that up. That tells me they’ve showing remarkable restraint.

    Trump likely knew he was doing this all along, but his interjection moved the goalposts for both the protesters and the people who hate the protests:

    For the former, it’s now, at least in part, a matter of rejecting the authority of any man/woman, regardless of title, telling them they have to leave the country if they don’t want to stand while the anthem is played. And for those against the protesters, standing with Trump has now entered the fray. It keeps spinning more and more away from the original intent of the players — which was the point, of course.

    One sure fire way to destroy dissent is to make sure few enough people remember the original rationale for that dissent.

    #86580
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    #86581
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by JackPMiller.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by zn.
    #86588
    zn
    Moderator

    Steve Kerr: NFL Is Using The Anthem As Fake Patriotism, Nationalism, Scaring People

    https://www.si.com/nba/2018/05/24/steve-kerr-nfl-national-anthem-policy-idiotic

    Golden State Warriors head coach Steve Kerr called the NFL’s new national anthem policy “idiotic” while talking with reporters ahead of Game 5 of the Western Conference Finals.

    Under the new NFL policy, NFL owners voted to allow NFL comissioner Roger Goodell to discipline any league personnel who does not stand and show respect for the flag and national anthem before games. Players are given the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer not to be on the field for the anthem. Teams will have the option to fine any team personnel or players that attempt to sit, kneel or protest during the anthem.

    Kerr is no stranger to speaking out against President Donald Trump and has supported NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick’s decision to kneel during the national anthem. In October 2017, Kerr told the Pod Save America podcast that he believes Kaepernick is being blackballed by NFL teams.

    “It’s just typical of the NFL,” Kerr said, according to Anthony Slater of The Athletic. “They’re just playing to their fanbase. Basically just trying to use the anthem as fake patriotism, nationalism, scaring people. It’s idiotic. But thats how the NFL has conducted their business. I’m proud to be in a league that understands patriotism in America is about free speech and peacfully protesting. Our leadership in the NBA understands when the NFL players were kneeling, they were kneeling to protest police brutality, to protest racial inequality. They weren’t disrespecting the flag or military. But our president decided to make it about that and the NFL followed suit, pandered to their fanbase, created this hysteria. It’s kind of what’s wrong with our country right now – people in high places are trying to divide us, divide loyalties, make this about the flag as if the flag is something other than it really is – which is a representation of what we’re about, which is diversity, peaceful protests, right to free speech. It’s ironic actually.”

    President Trump went on FOX News on Thursday morning to commend the NFL for “doing the right thing.”

    #86592
    snowman
    Participant

    Jim Souhan, write for the Minneapolis Star Tribune, calls the NFL decision “cowardly”.

    Souhan on the anthem

    an excerpt:

    This week, Philadelphia defensive lineman Chris Long said: “This is fear of a diminished bottom line. It’s also fear of a president turning his base against a corporation. This is not patriotism. … These owners don’t love America more than the players demonstrating and taking action to improve it.”

    The NFL’s attempt to dictate the behavior of its black players is typical of our country’s treatment of minorities. We treat them badly, then order them not to inconvenience us.

    EDIT:
    It just hit me that mandatory attendance at church and tithing and all the other church rules generate fake devotion. It’s about obedience, not faith or patriotism.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by snowman.
    #86610
    Billy_T
    Participant

    The NFL’s attempt to dictate the behavior of its black players is typical of our country’s treatment of minorities. We treat them badly, then order them not to inconvenience us.

    EDIT:
    It just hit me that mandatory attendance at church and tithing and all the other church rules generate fake devotion. It’s about obedience, not faith or patriotism.

    I’ve thought the same thing about forcing kids to attend church, especially when it’s clear that’s the last place they want to be.

    The older I get, the more convinced I am that the best way to go is live and let live. If you have to coerce anything or anyone, it’s not worth it. You’ve already lost. Let it be, etc.

    And I am ferociously opposed to coerced “patriotism” of any kind, cuz it’s not. It’s not patriotic if it’s compelled — via peer pressure, business owners or our liar in chief.

    This is so obvious and self-evident, I have no real idea why it’s even an issue. The players silently kneel, harm no one, do this non-violently, and no one can argue that they don’t have every reason in the world TO protest.

    This country has lost its mind.

    #86623
    zn
    Moderator

    Golden State Warriors head coach Steve Kerr called the NFL’s new national anthem policy “idiotic” while talking with reporters ahead of Game 5 of the Western Conference Finals.

    Albert Breer@AlbertBreer
    I like Kerr, but isn’t the NBA rule on the anthem much stricter? So who is the NBA trying to appeal to?

    #86624
    zn
    Moderator

    NFL’s National Anthem Policy Ignores the Original Reason for Protests: Social Justice

    https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/23/nfl-policy-national-anthem-players-kneeling

    ATLANTA — The NFL’s new policy regarding player protests during the national anthem is not a compromise whatsoever. It is a series of half measures dedicated to the attempt of satisfying all frustrated parties while completely ignoring the initial point of the peaceful protests. It is intended to hide its mostly black players who wish to speak up, through their actions, about inequality in criminal justice and police brutality against people of color. The policy treats those players as nuisances and attempts to hide them away in the locker room. It is meant to chill the speech of the players whose voices have grown louder than the players—and owners—imagined they could go.

    The NFL was at a crossroads with President Donald Trump breathing down the owners’ necks, the precious white male fan threatening to abandon the sport forever, a mutiny from two-thirds of its players and the disdain from tomorrow’s fans who could eventually jump ship to another sport. As a result, the league’s owners came up with a five-point plan that they believed could satisfy all parties at least a little.

    What the NFL certainly could not do is reverse course to pre-2009 and have players stay in the locker room during the playing of the anthem. That would be viewed as the North American sports behemoth capitulating to the liberals and furthering the PC culture damaging this great nation.

    Telling teams they can make their own policies seems so apropos today as we enjoy heated debates about states’ rights in our national discourse. A policy for San Francisco or Seattle would not suit the fans in Kansas City or Buffalo.

    The policy states that the league will fine teams—not individual players—if players do not “show respect for the flag and the anthem.” When asked to define what respect for the flag and anthem is, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said, “The general public has a very strong feeling for what respect for the flag is in that moment,” adding that clubs and the league will be the arbiters of what disrespect for the flag and anthem is. Team owners can then eat the fines themselves or exact fine money from players for the violation of team rules—and in that instance, the player fined wouldn’t be public knowledge.

    All of this is rooted in the idea promulgated Tuesday by Jerry Jones that “our fans want us to zero-in on football, and don’t want to think about—or think we’re thinking about—anything other than football.” It’s a laughable comment since every NFL game forces us to think about the military and war, among many other reasonable, charitable and valiant causes. Perhaps the league has hard data on the demographics of their fans, but I also enjoy the idea of a clipboard-holding Jones polling the average person as he or she exits the Wal Mart beside AT&T Stadium.

    There is a fantastic amount of evidence—both tangible and anecdotal—that shows players protesting during the anthem didn’t tank the ratings. Some of the league’s top stars were injured and some of the most well-followed franchises failed to make the playoffs. Sports Business Daily’s Austin Karp told SI.com in February “it is perhaps worth noting that the league’s 9% decline in its overall delivers matches the 9% season-to-date drop in broadcast prime” television. The Atlantic’s Derek Thompson combined the two, noting that “quite simply, televised football has a television problem and a football problem.” And then there’s the fact that, despite all the myriad issues, six of the seven most-viewed broadcasts so far this year were NFL games, and Sunday Night Football ranked as the highest-rated show on TV.

    Furthermore, discussions about people tuning football out for protest-related reasons usually conspicuously exclude those in support of player protests who boycotted the NFL because of what should clearly and efficiently be stated as the blackballing of Colin Kaepernick.

    The obvious policy is that there should be no policy. There’s a significant arrogance to the idea that these men, who by definition of their positions are out-of-touch with the majority of society, can predict the future as it relates to police brutalizing black and brown bodies. With this policy, there’s a clear belief that the political landscape will maintain status quo when we should all know the ground beneath us is constantly shifting.

    At a time when blackness is being celebrated and continuing to be persecuted—and when blackness is persecuted while celebrating—any attempt to muzzle such celebration will be met with resistance. Now the players have mostly worked out the kinks in the Players Coalition, they’ve been emboldened by comments past and future from the certain owners in these private meetings, and they’ve clearly grown a healthy contempt—like so much of this country—for the president. These players are motivated and organized, and, most of all, they now know their collective power.

    This remarkable arrogance from these owners that they can hold their black players in check is matched only by the incredible ignorance from the same owners that these young, rich (mostly) black men will acquiesce to what was decided in Atlanta.

    Every so often a commercial is aired, an identifier is published, a promposal goes wrong, a company’s insensitive tagline is stamped with approval where I remark to myself “if only they had consulted one black person.” I’m not convinced that one single black man or woman could have saved the 32 owners from this miserable policy. These men and women were determined to come up with a bad idea by hell or high water.

    But this policy clearly shows that, once again in America, there wasn’t a black person in the room.

    #86634
    zn
    Moderator

    Civils rights activists rally outside of NFL headquarters

    http://www.theredzone.org/Blog-Description/EntryId/70268/Civils-rights-activists-rally-outside-of-NFL-headquarters

    Civil rights activists gathered outside of NFL headquarters and called on team owners to overturn a new policy aimed at stopping player protests during the national anthem, the Associated Press reports They also encouraged a boycott of the league and its sponsors.

    About 50 people gathered Friday at the office building in midtown Manhattan that houses the NFL for a rally organized by National Action Network, a civil rights nonprofit organization.

    Kirsten John Foy, the Northeast Regional Director for NAN, was the first of 10 speakers. They took turns criticizing NFL team owners and President Donald Trump.

    Foy says “Our demand is that the NFL reverse that immoral and unconstitutional decision.”

    The NFL owners voted Wednesday to require players to stand for the national anthem or stay in the locker room. Teams will be fined if players don’t stand.

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