Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Taibbi on Obama
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May 9, 2016 at 1:19 pm #43715wvParticipant
An old quote from Taibbi.
Does it also apply to Clinton? Trump?
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“…Unsurprisingly, therefore, there is little with which to disagree in those books. They meant to produce precisely that effect. Matt Taibbi characterized Obama’s political persona in early 2007 asan ingeniously crafted human cipher, a man without race, ideology, geographic allegiances, or, indeed, sharp edges of any kind. You can’t run against him on issues because you can’t even find him on the ideological spectrum. Obama’s “Man for all seasons” act is so perfect in its particulars that just about anyone can find a bit of himself somewhere in the candidate’s background, whether in his genes or his upbringing. . . . [H]is strategy seems to be to appear as a sort of ideological Universalist, one who spends a great deal of rhetorical energy showing that he recognizes the validity of all points of view, and conversely emphasizes that when he does take hard positions on issues, he often does so reluctantly.
Taibbi described Obama’s political vision as “an amalgam of Kennedy, Reagan, Clinton and the New Deal; he is aiming for the middle of the middle of the middle.” Taibbi is by no means alone in this view; others have been more sharply critical in drawing out its implications, even during the heady moment of the 2008 campaign….”
http://harpers.org/archive/2014/03/nothing-left-2/2/May 9, 2016 at 3:30 pm #43724MackeyserModeratorI wouldn’t think it applies to Clinton because she’s a much more binary personality.
She’s about the fight. She’s a party firster, even as she embraces the policies of the other.
I mean, ideologically, she’s more aligned with the Republicans of the late 80s than Democrats of 2016, but she’s now trying to pass herself off as a PROGRESSIVE.
Hillary Clinton as a progressive.
Hillary Clinton as part of the LEFT.
How is that not a laughable notion???
She stood up in front of God and everybody and all, but endorsed John McCain for his “experience” over Obama because all he had was…a “speech”.
No, I don’t think Obama’s “Universalist” bit translates to Hillary Clinton at all.
Hillary Clinton’s bit is pure disingenuity. She’s outright lying about who she is, who and what she represents and what she plans to do. Her entire campaign is a bald-faced lie. She has no commitment other than to her nakedly aggressive passion for her own advancement that she feels that she is entitled to. She has sacrificed who and what she’s needed to sacrificed. The Presidency is hers, not because it represents the ultimate in service to her country, but because it represents the ultimate in power and the pinnacle of success and she intends to WIELD it.
She will wage war. She will punish those who speak out against her (if you think Obama is secretive, mark my words, we’ve seen NOTHING, yet). She will use Republican distrust of Government to renege on every single disingenuous campaign promise which she never had any intention of fulfilling. She will be free to focus solely on those things that she wants to focus on: foreign policy, namely Libya, Syria and regime change in Central and South America and installing corporatist judges on the Supreme Court. Not liberal, but corporatist. Sri Srivinasan (sp? I never can spell that right) is one such candidate who’s seemingly a “liberal” choice, but several watchdog Supreme Court groups have cautioned that his rulings are very pro-corporate.
That is why Bernie is so damned important.
Between two sociopaths and literally being at the possible end of the world due to Climate Change, there is ONE candidate who has an understanding of what needs to happen to perhaps…maybe.. stave off oblivion.
The fact that he wasn’t thrown into the sea is amazing to me. Or shot. Or poisoned. Or disappeared.
The fact that there’s still a better chance he could be President than the Rams have of winning the Super Bowl is beyond amazing to me (not that our chances are all that great…)
But her rise as well as Trumps is more a function of our reduction into a retarded tribalism.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 9, 2016 at 7:05 pm #43732ZooeyModeratorJesus, Mackeyser, if you would post more, I wouldn’t have to spend time posting at all. That is exactly what I see in Hillary, and exactly how I see the gravity of the situation vis-a-vis Bernie.
Maybe it will be society’s epitaph: “At the last possible moment, they almost voted for a candidate who would do something about the crisis.”
May 10, 2016 at 10:12 am #43760wvParticipantI mean, ideologically, she’s more aligned with the Republicans of the late 80s than Democrats of 2016, but she’s now trying to pass herself off as a PROGRESSIVE…
How is that not a laughable notion???
She stood up in front of God and everybody and all, but endorsed John McCain for his “experience” over Obama because all he had was…a “speech”.
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But her rise as well as Trumps is more a function of our reduction into a retarded tribalism.—————-
When did she support McCain??I think she may very well think of herself as a ‘progressive’ Mack.
Coz nowadays, people think so much in terms of “identity politix” that if you support the right for people to go into a whatever
bathroom they want, you are considered ‘progressive.’“Class” discussions are off the table. Race, sex, and gender stuff now make you a ‘progressive’.
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vMay 10, 2016 at 10:14 am #43761wvParticipantJesus, Mackeyser, if you would post more, I wouldn’t have to spend time posting at all. That is exactly what I see in Hillary, and exactly how I see the gravity of the situation vis-a-vis Bernie.
Maybe it will be society’s epitaph: “At the last possible moment, they almost voted for a candidate who would do something about the crisis.”
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Requiem
When the last living thing
has died on account of us,
how poetical it would be
if Earth could say,
in a voice floating up
perhaps
from the floor
of the Grand Canyon,
“It is done.”
People did not like it here.Kurt Vonnegut
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vMay 10, 2016 at 11:57 am #43772wvParticipantWhat do u boyz think of this here? Yes? No?
“….An equal longer-term danger, however, is the likelihood that we will find ourselves with no critical politics other than a desiccated leftism capable only of counting, parsing, hand-wringing, administering, and making up “Just So” stories about dispossession and exploitation recast in the evocative but politically sterile language of disparity and diversity. This is neoliberalism’s version of a left. Radicalism now means only a very strong commitment to antidiscrimination, a point from which Democratic liberalism has not retreated. Rather, it’s the path Democrats have taken in retreating from a commitment to economic justice.
Confusion and critical paralysis prompted by the racial imagery of Obama’s election prevented even sophisticated intellectuals like Žižek from concluding that Obama was only another Clintonite Democrat — no more, no less. It is how Obama could be sold, even within the left, as a hybrid of Martin Luther King Jr. and Neo from The Matrix. The triumph of identity politics, condensed around the banal image of the civil rights insurgency and its legacy as a unitary “black liberation movement,” is what has enabled Obama successfully to present himself as the literal embodiment of an otherwise vaporous progressive politics. In this sense his election is most fundamentally an expression of the limits of the left in the United States — its decline, demoralization, and collapse….”
Adolph ReedMay 10, 2016 at 1:35 pm #43784ZooeyModeratorI agree with you and Reed on this. Being in favor of civil rights is what defines being liberal these days, and that’s about the extent of it. One is progressive if one is in favor of allowing 0.3% of the population to urinate in their bathroom of choice.
You can’t find any discussion of class anywhere in the mainstream media, and that is certainly the fault of the Democrat party which hasn’t mentioned class in the past three decades.
May 10, 2016 at 1:53 pm #43785wvParticipantI agree with you and Reed on this. Being in favor of civil rights is what defines being liberal these days, and that’s about the extent of it. One is progressive if one is in favor of allowing 0.3% of the population to urinate in their bathroom of choice.
You can’t find any discussion of class anywhere in the mainstream media, and that is certainly the fault of the Democrat party which hasn’t mentioned class in the past three decades.
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Thats how i see it.
The ability/critical thinking skills to even conceive of, let alone make, A systemic examination of why there are poor-people in America doesn’t exist in the mainstream-media.
All you ever hear from the media is ‘socialism failed’ riffs, and ‘blame the poor’ riffs, and “gee aint it awful that poor people have bad water,” etc.
No critical examination of corporate-capitalism is even conceived of.
I think its not just ‘not permitted’, i think mostly its ‘they cant even conceive of’ a critique of Amerikan-capitalism.Which makes the Bernie phenomenon all the more…surreal.
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v“… I have to engage feminism because that becomes the vehicle by which I project myself as a female into the heart of the struggle, but the heart of the struggle does not begin with feminism. It begins with an understanding of domination and with a critique of domination in all its forms. I think it is in fact, a danger to think of the starting point as being feminism. …I think we need a much more sophisticated vision of what it means to have a radical political consciousness. That is why I stress so much the need for African Americans to take on a political language of colonialism…. to frame our issues in a larger political context that looks at imperialism and colonialism and our place as Africans in the Diaspora so that class becomes a central factor….” bell hooks
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“There is a lovely feature of the American psyche which rejects the notion that there are victims. In America, attitude is a magical elixir that cures everything. People are supposed to believe that they create their realities, and are solely responsible for every aspect of their lives. Everything is because of a choice you made somewhere. Somehow, you were supposed to not only be equipped to make the right choice at all times, despite your circumstances, but to know exactly what the outcome of every choice you made would be. This is all very convenient for the people at the top of our economic system with all the money and the power. Keeps the rest of us trying.”
― Carl-John X. Veraja
——–“…I see a hunger, especially among Black youth, for more sophisticated answers. Unfortunately, right now, it’s narrow nationalism, narrow forms of Afrocentrism, that are mostly addressing that hunger. Our leading people buy into utopian fantasies of liberation, when in fact our liberation should come from a concrete struggle in the workforce, no fantasies about ancient Africa, and kings and queens. Not that we don’t need to know about ancient Africa to address the biases of Western education.
People forget that the militant struggles of the 1960s were profoundly anti-capitalist. Even Martin Luther King reached a point, before his death, in A Testament of Hope, when he was saying we must be anti-militarist; we must critique capitalism. That has somehow gotten lost in the mix, and I think that this embracing of capitalist ethic of liberal individualism has done more to diffuse Black people’s capacity to struggle for freedom, than any other factor.” bell hooksMay 10, 2016 at 2:32 pm #43786ZooeyModerator————–
Thats how i see it.
The ability/critical thinking skills to even conceive of, let alone make, A systemic examination of why there are poor-people in America doesn’t exist in the mainstream-media.
All you ever hear from the media is ‘socialism failed’ riffs, and ‘blame the poor’ riffs, and “gee aint it awful that poor people have bad water,” etc.
No critical examination of corporate-capitalism is even conceived of.
I think its not just ‘not permitted’, i think mostly its ‘they cant even conceive of’ a critique of Amerikan-capitalism.Which makes the Bernie phenomenon all the more…surreal.
w
vYeah, and I hear a lot of complaints about the way Sanders gets no attention in media coverage – well, next to nothing. The headlines all through the primaries have always focused on Trump vs. GOP establishment. And I thought after Trump wrapped it up, the horse race coverage would HAVE to turn to the Democrat side, but it hasn’t.
But I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. I think the establishment just sees him as an extremist unworthy of serious conversation.
His vitality is entirely an internet affair.
I went to the Sanders rally in Sacramento last night. My son really wanted to go, and I thought…you know…good. Civics experience of some kind. Nurture that. So we went.
And Sanders talked over an hour and a half, and said shit like “We owe it to our children and grandchildren to ensure clean drinking water. We have to end fracking now!” And “Full-time workers should earn a living wage,” and “The richest family in America has 20 people who own as much as the bottom 40% of the country – 127 million people! – and yet many of their workers earn so little, they qualify for food stamps that are paid for by taxes on the middle class. Tell the Waltons to get off of Welfare, and pay their workers a decent wage.”
And I’m sitting there thinking, “I came all this way to listen to this guy state the obvious. And yet he is considered an extremist. What the hell?”
May 10, 2016 at 7:34 pm #43802MackeyserModeratorClass? The Democratic Party all discussions of Class for good when Clinton ascended to the Presidency in ’92 with the DLC.
He embraced “professionals” and the meritocracy. These were SMART PEOPLE who KNEW BETTER who FIGURED THINGS OUT for a living and KNEW BETTER than the downtrodden with little or no formal education (poor them). So, it was…charitable…to step in and make decisions FOR them.
It was the same shit the Republicans were doing. The language was even the same, it was simply rephrased to be more palatable to the “professionals”.
This wasn’t about class or income or structural issues. This was about how Professionals had earned what they’d gotten and it was time for others to do the same (fantastically Libertarian, actually, which is what you see in plenty of DLC philosophy… It’s neoconservative philosophically with swirls of libertarianism and economically neoliberal. It’s actually counter to Progressivism even when they seem to align superficially on social issues.)
And… it was all bullshit.
The goal wasn’t to win on populist ideals nor was it to fix any systemic problems. It was to elevate a class into equality with the current ruling class such that “professionals” would be equals with “the rich”.
It’s why all this is such disingenuous horse manure.
If Hillary Clinton were a Progressive, she’d have been having REAL discussions about the poor and working poor and their real living and working conditions. Instead, the moment she entered private life, her and her husband accrued personally $150M and through the Clinton Foundation nearly $3B including huge sums from foreign dictators.
As to when she embraced John McCain…
“I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002,” Clinton says.
A couple of responses from the time:
Rachel Maddow:
“This is what you say if you want to be McCain’s choice for Vice President. It is not what you say if you are running for the Democratic nomination.”
Keith Olbermann:
“Unbelievable.”
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 10, 2016 at 9:00 pm #43807ZooeyModeratorWhatever happened to Olberman? Did he get erased from the airwaves?
May 11, 2016 at 1:52 pm #43876MackeyserModeratorHe decided to go back to his first love, Baseball.
He’s a HUGE baseball mind, nearly a historian of baseball who everyone who’s anyone in baseball respects for his knowledge of the game. Even as they hate him for his progressive stances as baseball is pretty conservative.
He’s got a show, I think on ESPN 8, the Ocho…
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
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