Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki
- This topic has 39 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 4 months ago by wv.
-
AuthorPosts
-
August 7, 2017 at 5:13 pm #72031MackeyserModerator
Well, I dunno about what happened with Seth Rich.
And Wikileaks, iirc, has said that Seth Rich was their source.
So, one can’t simply dismiss it when the source is saying it wasn’t the Russians, but a Dem insider who they’ve since acknowledged is Rich.
It’s how Trump got elected. It’s ALL fucked up AND a ton of people were willing to believe the obvious lie (and many still do, vehemently) rather than endorse the corrupt status quo for one more minute.
Unfortunately, the Dems have no fucking idea, think Nancy Pelosi is awesome and that corp Dem Kamala Harris is their savior…. ugh.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
August 7, 2017 at 8:09 pm #72044znModeratorSeth Rich: Separating fact and speculation
Jon Greenberg
August 7th, 2017People who work in politics and suffer violent death are not often left in peace by conspiracy theorists. These aides and staffers don’t simply die, the theories go — they die for a reason.
The story of the 2016 shooting death of Democratic party worker Seth Rich has followed that pattern, with one important difference. A recent lawsuit alleges that Fox News and the Trump administration fueled an unsubstantiated narrative that Rich was the source of hacked Democratic National Committee emails that showed up on WikiLeaks.
The suit’s message is that both Fox News and the White House used the Rich story in an effort to neutralize the findings of the U.S. intelligence community that Russia was behind the stolen emails.
If true, this would raise serious questions about the role of the media and the government in spreading fake news.
But what do we really know at this point, and how much insight does the lawsuit really offer? We set out to separate the facts from the speculation.
The murder
Near dawn on July 10, 2016, the 27-year-old Rich was found with two fatal gunshot wounds near his home in Washington, D.C.
Rich was had been working on voter access projects for the DNC. The police believed he was the victim of a botched robbery. Bruises on Rich’s hands and face showed signs of a struggle, and his wallet, watch and cell phone were still on him when the police arrived.
Rich had been on a call with his girlfriend when the episode began. Police monitors picked up sounds of gunshots, and officers responded. The murder remains under investigation.
Those are the only certain facts in the story of the murder.
Rich’s death might have drawn no special attention if it weren’t for the release by WikiLeaks of hacked emails from the DNC about two weeks later on July 22, 2016. On Aug. 9, WikiLeaks head Julian Assange inserted Rich’s murder into stories about the DNC leaked emails, saying in a Dutch television interview that “others have suggested that (Rich was murdered).” Assange said he would not disclose if Rich was WikiLeaks’ source but described the risks people who leak information to WikiLeaks face.
A few days earlier, Assange had told CNN that WikiLeaks likes “to create maximum ambiguity as to who our sources are.” Still, Assange’s words stoked stories that Rich was the source of the DNC emails and had been targeted by Democratic loyalists in retaliation. There is no proof of this claim.
Fox News draws a lawsuit
Fast forward to May 16, 2017. Fox News reported that the FBI had proof that Rich had sent WikiLeaks “thousands of internal emails.”
Fox cited an anonymous federal investigator who said the FBI had the emails between Rich and WikiLeaks. It also quoted Rod Wheeler, a private investigator who was looking into Rich’s death on behalf of Rich’s parents , as saying, “My investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and Wikileaks.”
The Fox News report quoted Wheeler once more, “My investigation shows someone within the D.C. government, Democratic National Committee or Clinton team is blocking the murder investigation from going forward. That is unfortunate. Seth Rich’s murder is unsolved as a result of that.”
Wheeler disputed the way he was quoted after the report aired, and two months later, on Aug. 1, 2017, Wheeler sued Fox News and others for inventing those quotes.
“Mr. Wheeler – who was the only named source quoted in the article – did not make these statements,” his lawyer wrote in the filing.
Several versions of the Rich story, all based on the work of Fox News reporter Malia Zimmerman, appeared late in the evening on May 15 and throughout the day on May 16. The first, which showed up on the local Washington, D.C. Fox affiliate Fox 5, has Wheeler suggesting that there is evidence that tied Rich to WikiLeaks. By mid-morning on May 16, the national Fox News site posted a version with Wheeler speaking more definitively about Rich, WikiLeaks and efforts by Democrats to squash the police investigation.
Other news outlets started reporting that police were sticking by their finding of a botched robbery. NBC News, citing unnamed current and former law enforcement officials, reported that the D.C. police had examined Rich’s laptop and found it “never contained any e-mails related to WikiLeaks and the FBI never had it.”
Fact No. 1: Retraction
As we sort out facts from allegations, it’s important to note that on May 17, two days after the initial broadcast, the local Fox affiliate pulled its story. Fox News itself waited a week before releasing a statement saying, “The article was not initially subjected to the high degree of editorial scrutiny we require for all our reporting. Upon appropriate review, the article was found not to meet those standards and has since been removed.”
The recent lawsuit pressed Fox News to admit that it invented the quotes from Wheeler.
Bennett Gershman, a Pace University law professor and former prosecutor, said when it comes to what’s true and what isn’t, Fox News’ retraction is significant.
“The fact that Fox News withdrew the story is pretty good circumstantial evidence that either it found the story inaccurate or that it could not vouch for its accuracy.”
But Fox News’ retraction doesn’t specify what part of the story went astray.
A White House connection
Wheeler’s lawsuit added a significant twist to the story. It claimed that Ed Butowsky, a Trump supporter, paid him to investigate Rich’s death and brought Wheeler to a meeting with former White House spokesman Sean Spicer.
“Butowsky and Mr. Wheeler did in fact meet with Mr. Spicer on April 20, 2017, to keep him informed about the Seth Rich murder investigation,” the filing said. “Mr. Spicer was provided with a copy of Mr. Wheeler’s investigative narrative and asked Butowsky and Mr. Wheeler to keep him abreast of any developments in the case.”
Fact No. 2: Spicer meeting confirmed
NPR was the first news organization to get a copy of the lawsuit, and it followed up with Spicer.
“Spicer now tells NPR that he took the meeting as a favor to Butowsky,” the NPR report said. “Spicer says he was unaware of any contact involving the president.”
The timing of the meeting among Spicer, Butowski and Wheeler is significant. It came about three weeks before the Fox News broadcast in May. Then, right after the Fox News report hit, Spicer was asked for a reaction. Spicer dodged the question.
“I generally don’t get updates on former DNC staffers,” Spicer said May 16. “I’m not aware of that.”
Spicer said it would be inappropriate to comment on what he believed was an open investigation.
Alleged Trump involvement
The lawsuit goes on to cite texts, emails and recordings with Butowsky saying that President Donald Trump had seen a draft of the Fox News report and was eager to see it published.
“Not to add any more pressure, but the president just read the article,” said a text on May 14 from Butowsky to Wheeler. “He wants the article out immediately. It’s all up to you. But don’t feel the pressure.”
Did Trump actually know about the article? Butowsky told NPR he was “kidding.”
We asked Gershman and Rory Little, a criminal law professor at UC Hastings College of the Law, if Butowsky’s texts and emails proved any actual connection to Trump. They both said they did not. Butowsky might have exaggerated the role of the White House in order to push Wheeler forward.
Much more direct evidence would be required, they said.
Gershman said an investigator would need “calls, emails, meetings, or any other evidence establishing that Butowsky in fact had contact with any White House operative, whether those contacts involved the Seth Rich story, and whether there was a plan or even a suggestion to disseminate false news accounts about the case.”
Missteps by Fox News
The lawsuit argues not only that Fox News was slow to retract its story, but also alleges that when Wheeler complained that the report included statements he never made, he was told that “bosses at Fox News (wanted) to keep the false quotes in the story.”
According to the suit, Butowsky instructed Wheeler to “highlight (that) this puts the Russian hacking story to rest.” The suit argues that the entire purpose of bringing on Wheeler had been to lift the cloud of Russian interference that was hanging over the Trump White House.
Does Fox News’ retraction prove that it was complicit in that plan? The media law experts we reached said the retraction doesn’t prove that.
“We don’t know the underlying facts,” said Clay Calvert at the University of Florida. “His allegations might be completely false.”
Calvert cautioned that “many will speculate that Fox News works hand-in-glove with the Trump administration in an unofficial capacity.” But that is unproven.
Charles Glasser, a media lawyer who over the years has represented Fox News and Bloomberg and now teaches at the NYU Graduate School of Journalism, faulted Fox News for leaving itself open to that sort of theory.
“To merely retract the story without an explanation, it’s not unreasonable that your readers will say there’s something more going on here,” Glasser said.
In the past, news organizations published what Glasser called an autopsy of what went wrong. Fox News has not done that.
Glasser said the retraction shows the failure of editorial oversight.
“The core question is, how did this get published?” Glasser said.
We don’t know what happened at Fox News, but the most common reason, Glasser said, is an editor and a reporter were “writing to a headline.”
“There is a preconceived idea about X and you cherry-pick facts or ignore facts to make the case,” Glasser said. “That’s not what we as journalists are supposed to do.”
Fox News issued a statement from president of news Jay Wallace, who said, “The accusation that FoxNews.com published Malia Zimmerman’s story to help detract from coverage of the Russia collusion issue is completely erroneous. The retraction of this story is still being investigated internally, and we have no evidence that Rod Wheeler was misquoted by Zimmerman.”
We might never learn the truth
Every legal expert we reached warned that it’s possible that the public might never learn what happened. Civil suits are often settled with no admission of guilt and with robust nondisclosure agreements.
Well before that, Fox News might win a motion to dismiss the case. However, if it fails, then the suit moves into the discovery phase where Wheeler can compel Fox News to share documents and emails.
Glasser said at that point, Fox News might have something to worry about.
“In discovery, it’s ‘Katie bar the door,’ because those documents get leaked all the time,” Glasser said.
It would be in keeping with the trajectory of conspiracy theories that the unsubstantiated story of Seth Rich and WikiLeaks has spun off another storyline to follow, with its own presumed trail of skullduggery.
August 7, 2017 at 9:06 pm #72049wvParticipant“…A few days earlier, Assange had told CNN that WikiLeaks likes “to create maximum ambiguity as to who our sources are.” Still, Assange’s words stoked stories that Rich was the source of the DNC emails and had been targeted by Democratic loyalists in retaliation. There is no proof of this claim…”
=============
Except Sy Hersh in the little 6 minute video up above flat out sez he READ the FBI report that flat out sez Seth Rich contacted Wiki and wanted money to sell them DNC emails. Why would Sy Hersh put his entire career at stake by lying about
that FBI report?w
vAugust 7, 2017 at 9:32 pm #72051MackeyserModeratorAlso, one thing. It may seem small, but it’s important.
It wasn’t just “two gunshots”. Iirc, it was two gunshots to the back of the head.
That makes a BIG difference. Many people might infer he was shot in the chest or back or any number of places.
But the placement of two to the back of the head is an execution. Now, was it because he put up a fight or for more nefarious reasons?
I have no idea.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
August 8, 2017 at 8:46 am #72085wvParticipantAugust 8, 2017 at 8:59 am #72087wvParticipantw
v
Hersh:“Anyways, Wikileaks got access, and before he was killed- I can tell you right now Brennan is an asshole. Uh, I’ve known all these people for years. Clapper is sort of a better guy but not rocket scientist, the NSA guy’s a fucking moron, and they don’t- you know the trouble with all of those guys is that the only way they’re going to make it to a board or two and get hired by (?) and get some fat cat contracts is if Hillary stayed in. With Trump they’re gone, they’re done, they’re going to live on their pension, they’re not going to make it. And I gotta tell you guys, they don’t want to live on their pension, they want to be on boards,” Hersh says. A full transcript of the audio was posted to Reddit by a dedicated user.Emails: Ed Butowsky Pleads With Sy Hersh to Go Public With What He Knows About Seth Rich
August 8, 2017 at 9:24 am #72088znModeratorEmails: Ed Butowsky Pleads With Sy Hersh to Go Public With What He Knows About Seth Rich
===
The wealthy Republican donor at the center of explosive Fox News lawsuit
http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/01/media/ed-butowsky-fox-news-seth-rich/index.html
A stunning new lawsuit filed against Fox News has placed the spotlight on a wealthy Republican donor.
Ed Butowsky bills himself as an “internationally recognized expert in the wealth management industry” and a “leading voice on financial matters.” He’s also been a semi-regular guest on Fox News and its sister channel, Fox Business Network, as well as a number of other media outlets.
It’s those ties to Fox, as well as to the Trump White House, that helped thrust Butowsky to the center of a bizarre and explosive story involving a slain Democratic National Committee staffer and the Trump administration.
A federal lawsuit filed Tuesday accuses Butowsky of working with the White House on a false (and eventually retracted) Fox News story about the murder of DNC staffer Seth Rich.
According to the suit, the story was intended to undermine the public’s belief in the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia hacked the DNC and obtained the emails ultimately released by Wikileaks.
The lawsuit, which was brought by Rod Wheeler, a private investigator who was quoted in the retracted Fox story represents the first tangible link between the fringe conspiracy theory surrounding Rich’s death and the White House.
Related: Lawsuit: Fox News concocted Seth Rich story with oversight from White House
Butowsky told CNN that the allegations are “bulls**t.”
He further detailed his side of the story in an appearance on CNN Tonight on Tuesday, claiming the lawsuit was just an attempt by Wheeler to make money.
“I’ve never talked to President Trump in my life,” Butowsky said, denying that the White House had “anything to do with any of this.”
In a statement, Jay Wallace, Fox News’ president of news, denied that the network published the story “to help detract from coverage of the Russia collusion issue.” Wallace also said that Fox has “no evidence that Rod Wheeler was misquoted.”
Though he is now more squarely in the public eye than ever before, Butowsky’s role in the saga has been known for some time. After Fox’s story lit up pro-Trump media in May, the Rich family revealed that Butowsky was subsidizing Wheeler’s investigation into the murder, which Washington, D.C. police have blamed on a botched robbery.
But the Rich family was, according to a spokesman representing them, taken aback when they learned that Butowsky has ties to Steve Bannon, the White House strategist and former chairman of Breitbart News.
Butowsky has appeared on Breitbart News Radio multiple times over the years and has described Bannon as “a friend and a very nice man.” But Butowsky later told BuzzFeed that he and Bannon are more like acquaintances.
“It’s not like I have a Steve Bannon teddy bear,” Butowsky said in May. “I’ve never eaten a meal with the guy.”
Butowsky’s website details a long career in business, including the 2005 launch of a private wealth management advisory firm in the Dallas area. He’s described as “a well-respected member” of the community, and “an accomplished speaker on a variety of topics.”
Beyond his business, Butowsky has also plied his trade as a go-to analyst for reporters and broadcasters, frequently popping up on television or in news articles.
His media hits include appearances with outlets outside the conservative media space occupied by Fox and Breitbart, including CNN, CNBC and CBS.
He’s also a close friend of “60 Minutes” correspondent Lara Logan, even serving as a spokesperson of sorts after Logan was hospitalized in 2015.
But on Tuesday, as the lawsuit reverberated throughout the media world that he’s traveled for years, Butowsky tried to make himself less visible. He appeared to remove videos of his cable news appearances from YouTube, and he deleted his Twitter account.August 8, 2017 at 9:44 am #72089Billy_TParticipantSomething to keep in mind about Wikileaks and Assange: They promise anonymity to all their sources. It’s pretty much the only reason they receive info in the first place. That ironclad promise of complete anonymity and confidentiality. They promise not to even look at who sends them X, Y and Z info. They promise absolute confidentiality.
So they’re lying when they divulge their sources. Either they’re lying that they know who sent them the info, that the Russians didn’t, that Seth Rich did, or they lie about confidentiality and anonymity of their sources.
They can’t be telling the truth throughout the process.
August 8, 2017 at 5:27 pm #72104wvParticipantSomething to keep in mind about Wikileaks and Assange: They promise anonymity to all their sources. It’s pretty much the only reason they receive info in the first place. That ironclad promise of complete anonymity and confidentiality. They promise not to even look at who sends them X, Y and Z info. They promise absolute confidentiality.
So they’re lying when they divulge their sources. Either they’re lying that they know who sent them the info, that the Russians didn’t, that Seth Rich did, or they lie about confidentiality and anonymity of their sources.
They can’t be telling the truth throughout the process.
===============
Well if the source is Dead maybe Assange thinks he can go ahead and drop some hints about it:
“…Mainstream news outlets have mocked any linkage between Rich’s murder and the disclosure of the DNC emails as a “conspiracy theory,” but Hersh’s comments suggest another possibility – that the murder and the leak were unrelated while Rich may still have been the leaker.
In dismissing the possibility that Rich was the leaker, mainstream media outlets often ignore one of the key reason why some people believe that he was: Shortly after his murder, WikiLeaks, which has denied receiving the emails from the Russian government, posted a Tweet offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the solution of the mystery of who killed Rich.
Julian Assange, WikiLeaks founder and publisher, brought up Rich’s murder out of context in an interview with Dutch TV last August. “Whistle-blowers go to significant efforts to get us material and often very significant risks,” Assange said. “As a 27-year-old, works for the DNC, was shot in the back, murdered just a few weeks ago for unknown reasons as he was walking down the street in Washington.”
Pressed by the interviewer to say whether Rich was the source of the DNC emails, Assange said WikiLeaks never reveals its sources. Yet, it appeared to be an indirect way of naming Rich, while formally maintaining WikiLeak’s policy. An alternative view would be to believe that Assange is cynically using Rich’s death to divert the trail from the real source.
But Assange is likely one of the few people who actually knows who the source is, so his professed interest in Rich’s murder presents a clue regarding the source of the leak that any responsible news organization would at least acknowledge although that has not been the case in many recent mainstream articles about the supposed Seth Rich “conspiracy theory.”….
…
…..Until now, Hersh’s only public comment about the tape was to National Public Radio. “I hear gossip,” Hersh said. “[Butowsky] took two and two and made 45 out of it.”I contacted Hersh on Friday via email. He confirmed to me that it was his voice on the tape by angrily condemning those who he said secretly recorded him, without identifying them. He did not respond when I asked him whether he thought the tape may have been altered. Hersh refused to comment further.
On June 2, in an exchange of emails between Hersh and Butowsky, Hersh denied any knowledge of the FBI report. That was two months before Hersh discovered that he had been secretly recorded when the tape was made public on Aug. 1 by Big League Politics. A screenshot of the Hersh-Butowsky email exchange was published by Big League Politics last week…..see link…..
…..Corporate media’s uniform reaction has been to treat the idea of Seth Rich being WikiLeak’s source as a “conspiracy theory” – while mostly ignoring Assange’s hints and now the Hersh tape. Major U.S. media outlets cover Russia-gate as if Russian interference in last November’s U.S. election is proven, rather than based on a shaky “assessment” by “hand-picked” analysts from three – not all 17 – U.S. intelligence agencies….
link:https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/08/a-new-twist-in-seth-rich-murder-case/
August 8, 2017 at 7:36 pm #72114wvParticipantRay McGovern’s view:
“veteran intelligence officials for sanity”
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.