Sy Hersh — DNC wasnt hacked, Seth Rich sold info to wiki

Yeah he’s losing credibility on this one.

I don’t know why. I don’t know why this story of all stories, he’s off track.

Just the amount of info on the other side.

He has lost his touch the last couple of times out. He always thinks he’s right. And, he isn’t. He wasn’t always right back when I used to admire him either.

The Seth Rich murder story is classic “fake news” and GOP oppo research.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/01/media/rod-wheeler-seth-rich-fox-news-lawsuit/index.html

Excerpt:

The White House worked with Fox News and a wealthy Republican donor to concoct a story about the murder of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich, according to an explosive lawsuit filed Tuesday.

The story, the lawsuit said, was part of an attempt to discredit the US intelligence community’s determination that Russia hacked the Democratic National Committee and obtained a trove of emails released by Wikileaks.

For months, right-wing conspiracy theorists had floated unproven theories that Rich was the person who provided Wikileaks with the DNC emails, and suggested his death was retribution for his supposed leak. No real evidence was ever provided to support such claims.

The theory, however, resurfaced in May when Fox News published a story that quoted Rod Wheeler, a Fox News contributor and former homicide detective hired on the Rich family’s behalf by wealthy Republican businessman Ed Butowsky to investigate Rich’s death. According to the story, Wheeler said there was in fact evidence showing Rich had been in contact with Wikileaks. The story quickly fell apart when Wheeler contradicted aspects of it in an interview with CNN. Fox News eventually deleted it from its website, saying in a note left in its place that it failed to meet the network’s editorial standards.

Related: Story on DNC staffer’s murder dominated conservative media — hours later it fell apart

Now Wheeler, in his lawsuit, which was first reported by NPR, is coming forward with what he claims is the backstory: Fox News reporter Malia Zimmerman, with the “knowledge and support” of Butowsky, fabricated a pair of quotes attributed to Wheeler. It was all part of an effort to distract from the Russia narrative, the lawsuit said.

“Zimmerman, Butowsky and Fox had created fake news to advance President Trump’s agenda,” said the lawsuit, which named 21st Century Fox, the Fox News Channel, Zimmerman, and Butowsky as defendants. “Mr. Wheeler was subsequently forced to correct the false record and, as a result, lost all credibility in the eyes of the public. Mr. Wheeler has suffered irreparable damage to his reputation and his career will likely never recover.”

Related: Read the full lawsuit

Moreover, the lawsuit said, the White House was aware of the Fox News story ahead of publication.

Also:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-et-ct-fox-news-seth-rich-20170801-story.html

I still don’t get all the resistance to the fact that Russia hacked the election. That ship has sailed. They did it. The entire intel community here believes they did it, and they never agree about anything. The GOP and Dems agree that Russia did it, and they, too, never agree about anything. Europe believes they did it here and in Europe. European intel has long said they’ve been hacking elections across the globe.

Do we as well? Of course. America has been seriously interfering in elections around the globe at least since WWII. But it’s a strange and misguided step to go from “We do it too” to “They couldn’t have done it because, the Dems!” It makes zero sense to think that America and European governments would all conspire to present this united front, when it basically just amounts to what everyone has always known: The great powers have always played this game.

And those of us with an Internet background have known how good the Russians are at this stuff for a long, long time. It’s accepted knowledge among IT professionals that the vast majority of cyber-attacks come from Russia and its former satellites.

Again, I just don’t get the resistance to the obvious here.

wv wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

I still don’t get all the resistance to the fact that Russia hacked the election. That ship has sailed. They did it. The entire intel community here believes they did it, and they never agree about anything. The GOP and Dems agree that Russia did it, and they, too, never agree about anything. Europe believes they did it here and in Europe. European intel has long said they’ve been hacking elections across the globe.

Do we as well? Of course. America has been seriously interfering in elections around the globe at least since WWII. But it’s a strange and misguided step to go from “We do it too” to “They couldn’t have done it because, the Dems!” It makes zero sense to think that America and European governments would all conspire to present this united front, when it basically just amounts to what everyone has always known: The great powers have always played this game.

And those of us with an Internet background have known how good the Russians are at this stuff for a long, long time. It’s accepted knowledge among IT professionals that the vast majority of cyber-attacks come from Russia and its former satellites.

Again, I just don’t get the resistance to the obvious here.

==============

Well for starters Sy Hersh didnt say Russia didnt hack ‘anything’. He was specifically addressing the DNC-wikileaks instance. Thats all he addressed.

And secondly, i wouldnt trust ‘anything’ the ‘whole western Intell community’ said about ‘anything’. They are professional liars, BT. You know that. I mean how would YOU describe the CIA?

w
v

But the CIA is only one part of that, WV, and, again, the various intel organizations typically fight each other on issue after issue. They virtually never agree. But on this they do.

And that trust thing cuts many ways. It’s logical to be highly skeptical of any government’s intel community. But that includes Russia’s, too. Or any government’s “official story.” But that includes Russia’s too. So what are we left with, when it’s the competing stories of institutions we can’t really trust? Media. Corporations, etc. etc.

Common sense and logic. And it’s not logical, IMO, to assume that the DNC put out a hit on a staffer, even if we do say he leaked the info, and there’s no proof whatsoever that he did. Common sense and logic also tell us that, given Russia’s superiority in this realm — we’re superior in military and economic might; they’re superior in cyberland — Russia would focus on what they’re really, really good at . . . and would do what they did in Europe:

Push the far right parties and candidates to the degree possible. In America, that’s Trump/Bannon/Breitbart/Alt-right, etc. In France it was Le Pen. In the Netherlands, Wilders. And so on.

IMO, we’re waaay past all of this. It’s a done deal. It happened. We need to do whatever we can to prevent it from happening again, and to hold our own government accountable for its interference in elections overseas too.

Fuck both parties and both empires, in short. Or, as you’ve called them, gangster governments.

I just keep coming back to my sense of raw puzzlement over these discussions by some public figures/journalists. We just don’t have to choose sides here, but it seems some of these people think we do.

Another part of my reaction to all of this:

I don’t really “blame” Russia for wanting to manipulate elections around the world. It actually makes a lot of sense, in a Game of Thrones sort of way. And it’s what all the great powers have done, in one form or another, using the tech of the day, ever since we first had those elections . . . and before that, palace intrigue and so on.

We do it. They do it. All the powers do it.

The key really comes down to complicity on our side, and that’s where Trump comes in. He colluded with Russia. There isn’t an iota of doubt in my mind about that, and his son’s recent revelations and the published emails are the smoking gun for all of that. I’m also certain they’re only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

But Trump’s collusion to win an election, IMO, isn’t the worst of it. I think it’s also a slam dunk that he’s up to his eyeballs in American and Russian mobsters, money laundering and major financial crimes, and I think Mueller is going to eventually bring all of that out. And all of this talk about the CIA, the DNC, Seth Rich and so on will seem like pure misdirection when that happens, because it actually is.

In short, I don’t think Americans should be “mad” about what Russia did and want to retaliate. We need peace. We need diplomacy. We need to get along in this world. Americans should be pissed off to no end that they elected a cut-rate mobster, who continues to lie about what he did to win the election, and his assault on the environment, science, workers, education, public lands and so on.

wv wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

Another part of my reaction to all of this:

I don’t really “blame” Russia for wanting to manipulate elections around the world. It actually makes a lot of sense, in a Game of Thrones sort of way. And it’s what all the great powers have done, in one form or another, using the tech of the day, ever since we first had those elections . . . and before that, palace intrigue and so on.

We do it. They do it. All the powers do it.

==============

Ok if Trump is Cercei….who is/was Hillary? And who is Putin? And who is Bernie :>)

w
v

;>)

I’d like to see everyone weigh on on this.

I don’t know. Bernie as Davos Seaworth? Putin as Euron? Hillary as a much older, much more bitter Sansa?

I don’t know if there’s a Danaerys or a Jon Snow on the horizon. But we definitely could use a Tyrion, or two, or three. And, well, Missandei. Perhaps Naomi Klein?

• This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Billy_T.

wv wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

wv wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

Another part of my reaction to all of this:

I don’t really “blame” Russia for wanting to manipulate elections around the world. It actually makes a lot of sense, in a Game of Thrones sort of way. And it’s what all the great powers have done, in one form or another, using the tech of the day, ever since we first had those elections . . . and before that, palace intrigue and so on.

We do it. They do it. All the powers do it.

==============

Ok if Trump is Cercei….who is/was Hillary? And who is Putin? And who is Bernie :>)

w
v

;>)

I’d like to see everyone weigh on on this.

I don’t know. Bernie as Davos Seaworth? Putin as Euron? Hillary as a much older, much more bitter Sansa?

I don’t know if there’s a Danaerys or a Jon Snow on the horizon. But we definitely could use a Tyrion, or two, or three. And, well, Missandei. Perhaps Naomi Klein?

=====================

Ok now I’m bringing HEAT — Hillary is SANSA? No way, dude. Sansa is…is…good…and…nice….and…good.

Hillary is Cersei. Trump is…the Night King? The Night Clown?

:>)
w
v

I was surprised you didn’t have Clinton as Cersei from the beginning. She doesn’t really make much sense as Trump. She’s waaay too smart for him.

As for Sansa. I’m projecting. I like her character, too. But I can see how she might develop along rather sinister lines if she listens too often to Littlefinger. And, so far, she’s been horribly mistreated by all the men in her life except for Tyrion, and Jon seems not to take her seriously . . . . even though she likely saved his life in the Battle of the Bastards. Too much of that will turn a person ice cold.

Arya’s already gone over to the Dark Side. She once was a cute, feisty girl we could all root for. But, um, well, I think she may have carried her revenge thing a little bit too far. Assassinations are one thing, but pies? PIES!!

Cue ZN!!

Thanks, ZN.

Those are really good.

;>)

Mac,

Hey, hope all is well, and best of luck with your move.

(Charlottesville might be worth looking into)

On that “co-existing” front. The Clintons can be your run of the mill deeply compromised politicians and not be murderers. They can be guilty of the typically sordid machinations needed to win power and maintain it, the selling out to the donor class, the support of the super rich while in office, the all too quick signing off on wars and covert ops, the lies, the spin, the rationalizations . . . but not be guilty of what right-wingers claim and have claimed for decades. They can be horrible people and still not be involved in Vince Foster’s suicide, or the Seth Rich case, etc. Those things can coexist. In short, we can have hopelessly neoliberal pols, all too cozy with Wall Street and the Military Industrial Complex, who also aren’t involved in any of the political right’s fever-dream faux-scandals. Benghazi, Foster, the email server, etc. etc.

As for Seth Rich. There is just no evidence whatsoever that he leaked emails to Wikileaks. It doesn’t exist. It’s pure conjecture, with no foundation outside Republican oppo research and Russian fake news operations. It’s a classic right-wing invention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Seth_Rich

Seth Conrad Rich (January 3, 1989 – July 10, 2016) was an American employee for the Democratic National Committee (DNC) who was fatally shot in the Bloomingdale neighborhood of Washington, D.C.[1][2][3] As of May 2017 the shooting is still under investigation by the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department.[4]

The murder spawned several right-wing conspiracy theories about the crime, including the claim that Rich had been involved with the leaked DNC emails in 2016, which runs contrary to U.S. intelligence that concluded the leaked DNC emails were part of 2016 U.S. elections interference.[5][6][7] These theories were debunked by law enforcement,[5][6] as well as by fact-checking websites like PolitiFact.com,[6][8] Snopes.com,[9] and FactCheck.org.[5] The fabrications were described as fake news and falsehoods by The New York Times,[10] Los Angeles Times,[11] and The Washington Post.[12]

Rich’s parents condemned the conspiracy theorists and said that these individuals were exploiting their son’s death for political gain, with their spokesperson calling them “sociopaths” and “disgusting”.[13][14][15] They requested a retraction and apology from Fox News,[16] and sent a cease and desist letter to the investigator Fox News used.[6][15][16] The investigator admitted he had no evidence to back up his claims, and Fox News issued a retraction.[5][6][17]
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