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August 2, 2017 at 6:26 am #71698znModerator
Still Unsure About Single-Payer Health Care? This Might Change Your Mind
Still Unsure About Single-Payer Health Care? This Might Change Your Mind
I recently had the privilege of doing some interviews and speaking at a north New Jersey Democratic Socialist of America meeting (it kicked ass) about universal single-payer health care. One question that came up several times is, “Well, how do I persuade people who are on the fence?”
It’s symptomatic of my bubble that this isn’t something I had a ready answer for! So I thought about it and I think I have something I can commit to. In short, it’s that we’re already spending the money, but profit-seeking corporations aren’t giving us our fair value for it.
To break it down further:
1) The same care costs much more in the United States than anywhere else.
I really like this Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) working paper on relative hospital costs, which shows that U.S. hospital costs, adjusted for GDP, are 42 percent greater than the average of the sample — or, basically, 40 percent more expensive than France.
MRIs are a great example — the procedure consists of “push button” (I’m exaggerating). There is no reason it should cost five times what it costs in Australia!
2) We’re already spending massive amounts of money on healthcare, but we’re spending it dumbly.
American public money pays for 64 percent of all healthcare costs in America. That’s fucking bonkers!
Total health spending in 2015 was $3.2 trillion, of which public money represented $2.1 trillion. A little less than half of that is actual Medicare, Medicaid, or Veterans Affairs spending. The rest is government spending on private insurance for government employees, about $190 billion, and government subsidies to insurance companies and individuals via tax subsidies for employer coverage, about $300 billion.
We know that Medicare can negotiate much better prices for treatment because it is a larger payer. Scale that idea up —imagine how much better things would be if we had a single payer to regulate costs more effectively across all healthcare spending!
3) Only a federal single payer bears the costs of providing care and the costs of not providing care.
Align our incentives appropriately!
Right now, your private insurer only bears the costs of you receiving care. Because you are likely to change insurers in the future and eventually go on Medicare, they don’t actually feel the pressure to provide you care that keeps you healthy in the distant (and near) future. Instead, we all do — we all suffer when our friends and family get sick; our public money is allocated to care for people when they get sick.
So it makes perfect sense that the same actor who suffers when people don’t get preventative care — all of us, united, represented by our federal government — should be the actor who also pays for that care in the first place. Because:
4) Once you have universal, single-payer health care, you can begin the work of actual health justice.
The actual goal of health reform isn’t just payer reform, universal expansion and cost coverage — those are just the beginning. The actual work is the social determinants of health. I’ve said this before and I believe every word of it:
Because the federal actor bears costs of providing care and not providing care, it can finally be a tool for realizing health justice. If your population is getting sick and dying because they don’t have a place to live, then housing is healthcare, and you build housing to bring healthcare costs down. If your population doesn’t have access to healthy food to eat, then food is healthcare, and you provide them with affordable food options to bring food costs down.
If you want to read more about social determinants of health care, it’s hard to go wrong reading about New York Medicaid director Jason Helgerson. Here’s the 2014 document summarizing his Medicaid Redesign Team’s approach to social determinants in New York. It’s interesting! Here’s some more good stuff on Helgerson and value-based payments.
Does that make sense? I think that makes sense.
Some other questions that come up
Someone needs to do the extremely sexy work of standardizing medical data feeds and outputs.
What about the jobs of people who currently work in the insurance industry?
The easy, callous answer is “Well, at least they’ll have healthcare if they lose their jobs.” I’m not satisfied with that (even though it’s true). I also think it’s shortsighted. Much of the infrastructure in the insurance industry is still necessary. So why not reallocate these workers to the federal sector, where their labor goes to the good of all, instead of private profit?
Someone needs to do the extremely sexy work of standardizing medical data feeds and outputs. Here is a great way for people with hyper-specialized skills to be paid fair wages to design and implement that standardization. And, hell, we’re trying to fix a three-trillion-dollar sector here. It’s peanuts to build a work program to help those who might otherwise be left behind. Solidarity for all workers, including those whose skills are an invention of the payer-provider labyrinth.
What about doctor salaries?
I believe that the reduction in per-service costs (and the adoption of smarter standards of payment, like “pay for treatment” instead of “pay for specific service”) will be more than matched by an increase in people seeking affordable preventative care, so most physicians will find their compensation to be fair.
But that might not be a perfect argument. Ultimately, some physicians will find their total compensation reduced— mostly specialists, who have been unfairly privileged in price increases over time. (Primary care physicians and rural medicine doctors, on the other hand, are due for a compensation increase relative to median American physician salaries — which are, it should be noted much, much, much higher than salaries in other countries…)
One of the reasons physicians need high salaries is because they graduate ten years of education with $300,000 in student debt and 7 percent of compounding interest. That’s two decades of paying off debt. How cruel!
So I think there is room in universal single-payer healthcare for tuition relief and/or free medical training for doctors, nurses and other essential health providers. Relieve their pressure to be locked into a career path and insurmountable education debt in exchange for fairer salaries. This should be a net better result for everyone.
What about hospital revenues? Won’t they fall year over year?
That’s the wrong way to think about it. Consider “Roemer’s Law” — if a hospital builds a new bed, it will be filled. So much of hospital annual revenues are ER and inpatient admissions that don’t necessarily need to happen. Those admissions could have been prevented with preventive care or screening, or affordable care in clinics closer to home. Those procedures often could have been handled by a less specialized physician at home or in a local clinic. It’s not about cutting spending, it’s about reallocating spending to better places and making sure it ends up in the hands of people providing care.
August 2, 2017 at 7:39 am #71700PA RamParticipantThere is a lot that needs reforming about the health care system. Single payer would be a great first step. For one thing–Medicare is more than just insurance. It does the job of controlling some of the costs with health care. It is Medicare fighting some of the ridiculous fees hospitals charge. They do studies or compare prices and look to adjust payments accordingly. Private insurance just doesn’t do that the same way. While they negotiate fees–they are also more ready to pay outrageous ones knowing that they can always pass on the costs to patients.
The ACA made sure that 80 percent of for-profit insurance must go to patient care while the other 20 percent can go for so-called “administration” fees(read high CEO pay and such.} Not for profit Medicare applies about 98 percent to patient care and 2 percent to administration fees. It’s a better deal all the way around.
Hospitals–and yes even the “not-for-profit” ones–not really “not-for-profit” at all have changed over the years. They are just giant corporations now that buy up doctors, other hospitals other providers and become these “health systems”. They use tricks like building zen gardens to justify outrageous “facility fees” and the industry as a whole has become very fat by gaming the system. There are college degrees for medical coding alone. These experts know how to “upcode” a procedure to get more money than a procedure should cost. A doctor may stop in the ER–say not much more than “Hi” and it counts as a consultation.
There are many problems but a single payer system is something way over due. Just letting Medicare negotiate drug prices would be a huge deal. And having healthier younger people in such a system would only strengthen the system.
I am for single payer all the way. This is the answer we will always come back to until one day we do it.
I think I posted this before but I want to toss it out again. This is the best thing I’ve ever read about health care in this country. I’ve learned so much I had no clue about. It has only sold me more on things like single payer. It will require other reform like any big industry but single payer is a huge piece of the puzzle.
https://www.amazon.com/American-Sickness-Healthcare-Became-Business/dp/1594206759
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
August 2, 2017 at 9:37 am #71704nittany ramModeratorLink: https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10156196140087908/
- This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by nittany ram.
August 2, 2017 at 1:31 pm #71710wvParticipantPeople just shouldnt get sick.
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vAugust 2, 2017 at 6:48 pm #71724MackeyserModeratorIt’s basic math.
Medicare for all = total health care costs + <4% administrative costs including advertising and salaries for administrators.
Private insurance = total health care costs + >20% administrative costs including advertising and salaries for executives, agents, and administrators.
The math gets more complicated when we factor in the built in cost controls of Medicare versus the collusion between providers and suppliers that takes place in a private insurance system.
It’s only more complicated in that it’s hard to estimate how much more is saved with Medicare for all with its current cost controls and further how much would be saved if it became a national system with total bargaining control with respect to the supply side.
All that said, it’s basic math.
If we only address non-health care related costs, moving to medicare for all saves in excess of 16% of total systemic spending.
Considering that health care is 16% of our GDP, even without any additional cost controls (of which there are MANY) that means saving 2.56% of GDP.
2.56% of 2016 US GDP of $18.569T = $475.37B
Thus, the ability to save $475 BILLION simply by removing the profits seems like a no brainer. And again, with cost controls the savings would easily eclipse $600 Billion which rivals total book spending on Defense.
Even if we just paid down the debt (I would rather see us invest it all in infrastructure, but as with anything political, there’d be the need for compromise on that and paying down the debt is important), that would mean as much a $125B going to direct payments and an infusion into the economy of $475B of which was all actually spent money within the system. Businesses would save and consumers would have those monies to spend. True, it wouldn’t be a linear correlation, but the overall would likely be close to the initial figures (more of some, less of other monies and some source changes)
Point being that this isn’t like physics where the farther you drill down, the more different things become (differentiating between Newtonian physics and Quantum Physics). Basically, the numbers don’t change radically from the over-simplified numbers and once all the full details are accounted for.
Which for purposes of discussion make this an easy math problem. Maintain the status quo (which doesn’t just screw consumers, but also screws providers like rural hospitals and many doctors who go unpaid for extended lengths) or convert to a system which does almost everything better and saves $475B.
The question for defenders of the status quo is this: What do US Citizens get for that $475B by having the most inefficient and costly Health Care system in the world?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
August 3, 2017 at 10:46 pm #71817znModeratorNoam Chomsky on How the United States Developed Such a Scandalous Health System
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In the following excerpt, originally published at Truthout in January 2017, shortly before Donald Trump’s inauguration, Chomsky discusses the historical and political factors that have created and maintained such a shamefully profit-driven health system in the United States.
C.J. Polychroniou: Article 25 of the UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UDHR) states that the right to health care is indeed a human right. Yet, it is estimated that close to 30 million Americans remain uninsured even with the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ACA) in place. What are some of the key cultural, economic and political factors that make the US an outlier in the provision of free health care?
Noam Chomsky: First, it is important to remember that the US does not accept the Universal Declaration of Human Rights — though in fact the UDHR was largely the initiative of Eleanor Roosevelt, who chaired the commission that drafted its articles, with quite broad international participation.
The UDHR has three components, which are of equal status: civil-political, socioeconomic and cultural rights. The US formally accepts the first of the three, though it has often violated its provisions. The US pretty much disregards the third. And to the point here, the US has officially and strongly condemned the second component, socioeconomic rights, including Article 25.
Opposition to Article 25 was particularly vehement in the Reagan and Bush I years. Paula Dobriansky, deputy assistant secretary of state for human rights and humanitarian affairs in these administrations, dismissed the “myth” that “‘economic and social rights constitute human rights,” as the UDHR declares. She was following the lead of Reagan’s UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick, who ridiculed the myth as “little more than an empty vessel into which vague hopes and inchoate expectations can be poured.” Kirkpatrick thus joined Soviet Ambassador Andrei Vyshinsky, who agreed that it was a mere “collection of pious phrases.” The concepts of Article 25 are “preposterous” and even a “dangerous incitement,” according to ambassador Morris Abram, the distinguished civil rights attorney who was US Representative to the UN Commission on Human Rights under Bush I, casting the sole veto of the UN Right to Development, which closely paraphrased Article 25 of the UDHR. The Bush II administration maintained the tradition by voting alone to reject a UN resolution on the right to food and the right to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health (the resolution passed 52-1).
Rejection of Article 25, then, is a matter of principle. And also a matter of practice. In the OECD ranking of social justice, the US is in twenty-seventh place out of thirty-one, right above Greece, Chile, Mexico and Turkey. This is happening in the richest country in world history, with incomparable advantages. It was quite possibly already the richest region in the world in the eighteenth century.
In extenuation of the Reagan-Bush-Vyshinsky alliance on this matter, we should recognize that formal support for the UDHR is all too often divorced from practice.
US dismissal of the UDHR in principle and practice extends to other areas. Take labor rights. The US has failed to ratify the first principle of the International Labour Organization Convention, which endorses “Freedom of Association and Protection of the Right to Organise.” An editorial comment in the American Journal of International Law refers to this provision of the International Labour Organization Convention as “the untouchable treaty in American politics.” US rejection is guarded with such fervor, the report continues, that there has never even been any debate about the matter. The rejection of International Labour Organization Conventions contrasts dramatically with the fervor of Washington’s dedication to the highly protectionist elements of the misnamed “free trade agreements,” designed to guarantee monopoly pricing rights for corporations (“intellectual property rights”), on spurious grounds. In general, it would be more accurate to call these “investor rights agreements.”
Comparison of the attitude toward elementary rights of labor and extraordinary rights of private power tells us a good deal about the nature of American society.
Furthermore, US labor history is unusually violent. Hundreds of US workers were being killed by private and state security forces in strike actions, practices unknown in similar countries. In her history of American labor, Patricia Sexton — noting that there are no serious studies — reports an estimate of seven hundred strikers killed and thousands injured from 1877 to 1968, a figure which, she concludes, may “grossly understate the total casualties.” In comparison, one British striker was killed since 1911.
As struggles for freedom gained victories and violent means became less available, business turned to softer measures, such as the “scientific methods of strike breaking” that have become a leading industry. In much the same way, the overthrow of reformist governments by violence, once routine, has been displaced by “soft coups” such as the recent coup in Brazil, though the former options are still pursued when possible, as in Obama’s support for the Honduran military coup in 2009, in near isolation. Labor remains relatively weak in the US in comparison to similar societies. It is constantly battling even for survival as a significant organized force in the society, under particularly harsh attack since the Reagan years.
All of this is part of the background for the US departure in health care from the norm of the OECD, and even less privileged societies. But there are deeper reasons why the US is an “outlier” in health care and social justice generally. These trace back to unusual features of American history. Unlike other developed state capitalist industrial democracies, the political economy and social structure of the United States developed in a kind of tabula rasa. The expulsion or mass killing of Indigenous nations cleared the ground for the invading settlers, who had enormous resources and ample fertile lands at their disposal, and extraordinary security for reasons of geography and power. That led to the rise of a society of individual farmers, and also, thanks to slavery, substantial control of the product that fueled the industrial revolution: cotton, the foundation of manufacturing, banking, commerce, retail for both the United States and Britain, and less directly, other European societies. Also relevant is the fact that the country has actually been at war for 500 years with little respite, a history that has created “the richest, most powerful and ultimately most militarized nation in world history,” as scholar Walter Hixson has documented.
For similar reasons, American society lacked the traditional social stratification and autocratic political structure of Europe, and the various measures of social support that developed unevenly and erratically. There has been ample state intervention in the economy from the outset — dramatically in recent years — but without general support systems.
As a result, US society is, to an unusual extent, business-run, with a highly class-conscious business community dedicated to “the everlasting battle for the minds of men.” The business community is also set on containing or demolishing the “political power of the masses,” which it deems as a serious “hazard to industrialists” (to sample some of the rhetoric of the business press during the New Deal years, when the threat to the overwhelming dominance of business power seemed real).
Here is yet another anomaly about US health care: According to data by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the US spends far more on health care than most other advanced nations, yet Americans have poor health outcomes and are plagued by chronic illnesses at higher rates than the citizens of other advanced nations. Why is that?
US health care costs are estimated to be about twice the OECD average, with rather poor outcomes by comparative standards. Infant mortality, for example, is higher in the United States than in Cuba, Greece and the EU generally, according to CIA figures.
As for reasons, we can return to the more general question of social justice comparisons, but there are special reasons in the health care domain. To an unusual extent, the US health care system is privatized and unregulated. Insurance companies are in the business of making money, not providing health care, and when they undertake the latter, it is likely not to be in the best interests of patients or to be efficient. Administrative costs are far greater in the private component of the health care system than in Medicare, which itself suffers by having to work through the private system.
Comparisons with other countries reveal much more bureaucracy and higher administrative costs in the US privatized system than elsewhere. One study of the United States and Canada a decade ago, by medical researcher Steffie Woolhandler and associates, found enormous disparities, and concluded that “Reducing U.S. administrative costs to Canadian levels would save at least $209 billion annually, enough to fund universal coverage.” Another anomalous feature of the US system is the law banning the government from negotiating drug prices, which leads to highly inflated prices in the United States as compared with other countries. That effect is magnified considerably by the extreme patent rights accorded to the pharmaceutical industry in “trade agreements,” enabling monopoly profits. In a profit-driven system, there are also incentives for expensive treatments rather than preventive care, as strikingly in Cuba, with remarkably efficient and effective health care.
Why aren’t Americans demanding — not simply expressing a preference for in survey polls — access to a universal health care system?
They are indeed expressing a preference, over a long period. Just to give one telling illustration, in the late Reagan years 70 percent of the adult population thought that health care should be a constitutional guarantee, and 40 percent thought it already was in the Constitution since it is such an obviously legitimate right. Poll results depend on wording and nuance, but they have quite consistently, over the years, shown strong and often large majority support for universal health care — often called “Canadian-style,” not because Canada necessarily has the best system, but because it is close by and observable. The early ACA proposals called for a “public option.” It was supported by almost two-thirds of the population, but was dropped without serious consideration, presumably as part of a compact with financial institutions. The legislative bar to government negotiation of drug prices was opposed by 85 percent, also disregarded — again, presumably, to prevent opposition by the pharmaceutical giants. The preference for universal health care is particularly remarkable in light of the fact that there is almost no support or advocacy in sources that reach the general public and virtually no discussion in the public domain.
The facts about public support for universal health care receive occasional comment, in an interesting way. When running for president in 2004, Democrat John Kerry, the New York Times reported, “took pains… to say that his plan for expanding access to health insurance would not create a new government program,” because “there is so little political support for government intervention in the health care market in the United States.” At the same time, polls in the Wall Street Journal, Businessweek, the Washington Post and other media found overwhelming public support for government guarantees to everyone of “the best and most advanced health care that technology can supply.”
But that is only public support. The press reported correctly that there was little “political support” and that what the public wants is “politically impossible” — a polite way of saying that the financial and pharmaceutical industries will not tolerate it, and in American democracy, that’s what counts.
Returning to your question, it raises a crucial question about American democracy: Why isn’t the population “demanding” what it strongly prefers? Why is it allowing concentrated private capital to undermine necessities of life in the interests of profit and power? The “demands” are hardly utopian. They are commonly satisfied elsewhere, even in sectors of the US system. Furthermore, the demands could readily be implemented even without significant legislative breakthroughs. For example, by steadily reducing the age for entry to Medicare.
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The question directs our attention to a profound democratic deficit in an atomized society, lacking the kind of popular associations and organizations that enable the public to participate in a meaningful way in determining the course of political, social and economic affairs. These would crucially include a strong and participatory labor movement and actual political parties growing from public deliberation and participation instead of the elite-run candidate-producing groups that pass for political parties. What remains is a depoliticized society in which a majority of voters (barely half the population even in the super-hyped presidential elections, much less in others) are literally disenfranchised, in that their representatives disregard their preferences while effective decision-making lies largely in the hands of tiny concentrations of wealth and corporate power, as study after study reveals.The prevailing situation reminds us of the words of America’s leading twentieth-century social philosopher, John Dewey, much of whose work focused on democracy and its failures and promise. Dewey deplored the domination by “business for private profit through private control of banking, land, industry, reinforced by command of the press, press agents and other means of publicity and propaganda” and recognized that “Power today resides in control of the means of production, exchange, publicity, transportation and communication. Whoever owns them rules the life of the country,” even if democratic forms remain. Until those institutions are in the hands of the public, he continued, politics will remain “the shadow cast on society by big business.”
This was not a voice from the marginalized far left, but from the mainstream of liberal thought.
Turning finally to your question again, a rather general answer, which applies in its specific way to contemporary western democracies, was provided by David Hume over 250 years ago, in his classic study Of the First Principles of Government. Hume found
nothing more surprising than to see the easiness with which the many are governed by the few; and to observe the implicit submission with which men resign their own sentiments and passions to those of their rulers. When we enquire by what means this wonder is brought about, we shall find, that as Force is always on the side of the governed, the governors have nothing to support them but opinion. ‘Tis therefore, on opinion only that government is founded; and this maxim extends to the most despotic and most military governments, as well as to the most free and most popular.
Implicit submission is not imposed by laws of nature or political theory. It is a choice, at least in societies such as ours, which enjoys the legacy provided by the struggles of those who came before us. Here power is indeed “on the side of the governed,” if they organize and act to gain and exercise it. That holds for health care and for much else.August 4, 2017 at 9:57 am #71822Billy_TParticipantIn America, for generations, the effort expended on behalf of avoiding the obvious has been and remains stunningly grotesque. The effort to avoid seeing that 800 pound gorilla.
“Profit” costs all of us, massively. Profit forces prices waaay up, quality waaay down, wages waaay down, life-times and health metrics seriously down. It provides NO benefits for the vast majority of humans on this planet, no “value added” benefits, and it is absolutely unnecessary.
Not just “profit,” of course. But all the ways that personal compensation is forcibly propelled and concentrated upward at the very top, so that it becomes obscenely high compensation at the very top, plus those profits. All of that subtracts for everyone else’s quality of life, longevity, disposable income, opportunities to chase our dreams, etc. etc.
When it comes to health care? That we allow vast sums of money to be sucked up and concentrated at the very top is insane. That money is directly removed from what should be spent on patient care. And, contrary to American brainwashing, it can’t exist in two places at once. It really does matter that some people make tens of millions (and more) in this system. It really does negatively impact everyone else. Their control of the money takes it off the table for everyone else, and that forces cuts, substractions elsewhere. It can’t exist in two places at once.
So the obvious answer is — mathematically, logically, ethically, morally — end profit and end private control of the health care system at least. It really should be across the board, throughout the entire economy, because the same math and logic obtains in every other aspect of commerce and trade. But the health care system, at least, needs to end the practice. It’s literally killing us to maintain the way things are now.
August 18, 2017 at 11:41 am #72777znModeratorDoctors warm to single-payer health care
Single-payer health care is still a controversial idea in the U.S., but a majority of physicians are moving to support it, a new survey finds.
Fifty-six percent of doctors registered either strong support or were somewhat supportive of a single-payer health system, according to the survey by Merritt Hawkins, a physician recruitment firm. In its 2008 survey, opinions ran the opposite way — 58 percent opposed single-payer. What’s changed?
Red tape, doctors tell Merritt Hawkins. Phillip Miller, the firm’s vice president of communications, said that in the thousands of conversations its employees have with doctors each year, physicians often say they are tired of dealing with billing and paperwork, which takes time away from patients.
“Physicians long for the relative clarity and simplicity of single-payer. In their minds, it would create less distractions, taking care of patients — not reimbursement,” Miller said.
In a single-payer system, a public entity, such as the government, would pay all the medical bills for a certain population, rather than insurance companies doing that work.
A long-term trend away from physicians owning their practices may be another reason that single-payer is winning some over. Last year was the first in which fewer than half of practicing physicians owned their practice — 47.1 percent — according to the American Medical Association’s surveys in 2012, 2014 and 2016. Many doctors are today employed by hospitals or health care institutions, rather than working for themselves in traditional solo or small-group private practices. Those doctors might be less invested in who pays the invoices, Miller said.
There’s also a growing sense of inevitability, Miller said, as more doctors assume single-payer is on the horizon.
“I would say there is a sense of frustration, a sense of maybe resignation that we’re moving in that direction, let’s go there and get it over with,” he said.
Merritt Hawkins emailed its survey Aug. 3 and received responses from 1,003 doctors. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.
The Affordable Care Act established the principle that everyone dese
August 19, 2017 at 4:34 am #72820MackeyserModeratorMedicare for All is the first step and it would need to be a quick transition because of the speed with which private insurers will exit markets in order to sabotage the transition.
It’s not the end goal.
The end goal may have the same name, but it will be a coherent national system that meets the needs of patients, providers, rural and urban hospitals while creating room for both innovation as well as wellness.
That will require iteration beyond the first stab at Medicare for All.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
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