smearing tulsi, endlessly — question to Billy T

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  • #106874
    wv
    Participant

    I think Tulsi is the most smeared candidate of all the Dems.

    Anyway, BT if u watch this, whats your reaction to the CNN “Tulsi is a Russian puppet” comment ?
    I know we differ on russia-gate in certain ways, but do you not agree the MSM is using the russia thing to smear anti-war (anti-deep-state) candidates?
    (I’m beginning to think of the deep-state as simply the pro-endless-war faction of the powers-that-be)

    • This topic was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by wv.
    #106876
    wv
    Participant

    PS – i did not know Anderson Cooper worked for the CIA, lol. It just gets better n better.

    w
    v

    #106883
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Starting off, Dore paints a false picture of that the Alliance for Securing Democracy. He makes it sound like it’s a Clinton cut out. It’s primarily run and staffed with former Bush alum. Some Dems. Mostly Republicans.

    My experience with Dore is that he’s all too cavalier with the facts, rushes to judgment, while accusing others of doing so, and I have no idea why he wastes a moment’s time trying to defend RT. It’s Russian State TV. It doesn’t try to hide that. I don’t trust Russian or American propaganda. Smartest way to go is to say no to both/and.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Securing_Democracy

    Next: He makes a great point about Bacari Sellers’ horrible smear of Gabbard, which really should have pushed the panel to call for evidence. But then Dore does just what Sellers’ did by saying he must be CIA. Does Dore know this? Does he have evidence to support this? If not, don’t say it. Sellers’ makes a stupid, baseless accusation. Dore should have left it there.

    I liked Gabbard’s response. She’s tough and poised. I have a feeling that if Sanders wins, she’ll be his VP. I’d happily vote for that ticket.

    Next: Dore instantly takes the word of an interviewer, who makes claims about ISIS funding, talking to Flynn, a well-known crackpot and now a felon. Dore accuses others of not presenting evidence, but he’s fine with taking the word of some Youtube host like himself? Might it all be true? Certainly. Obviously. But I’m not going to go with one youtube host I’ve never seen before and the nutcase Flynn.

    At that point, I stopped watching.

    (Will post a WaPo article that makes a much better case why we should be angered by the smears against Gabbard and Stein, IMO. Clinton’s at it again!!)

    #106884
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Clinton is such a petty, vindictive person here, and acts like Trump in this case:

    Hurl accusations against others without any evidence:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/18/hillary-clinton-suggests-putin-has-kompromat-trump-russians-will-back-tulsi-gabbard-third-party-bid/#comments-wrapper

    Excerpt:

    At Tuesday night’s Democratic presidential debate, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) hit back at critics who charged she’s too close to Russia. “This morning, a CNN commentator said on national television that I’m an asset of Russia,” she said. “Completely despicable.”

    Gabbard won’t be happy to hear Hillary Clinton’s latest interview. Nor will President Trump or another of Clinton’s 2016 opponents, whom Clinton has now lodged similar accusations about.

    In a conversation on former Obama campaign manager David Plouffe’s podcast, Clinton suggested the Russians are leveraging a number of top U.S. politicians. She suggested Russia had kompromat on Trump. She accused 2016 Green Party nominee Jill Stein of being a “Russian asset.” And she suggested Russia might back Gabbard as a third-party candidate.

    “They’re also going to do third-party again,” Clinton said. “I’m not making any predictions, but I think they’ve got their eye on someone who’s currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. She’s the favorite of the Russians. They have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far.”

    Trump is easily the most despicable human being to occupy the White House. But Clinton proves, yet again, she didn’t deserve the office either.

    We had two horrible choices. Clinton was the better of the two. But I’m glad I voted Third Party.

    #106885
    Billy_T
    Participant

    I duckduckgo’d Anderson Cooper and the CIA. It appears to be yet another case of Dore jumping the gun.

    He interned with them during the summer of his sophomore and junior years at Yale, apparently. And that was the end of his connection, as far as we know.

    Could he have retained the connection? Sure. Of course. Could he be Jason Bourne in disguise? Sure. But Dore should have been honest about this, instead of insinuating that he “worked for the CIA” in some sinister capacity as an adult.

    Seriously, I have less and less patience for these youtube-host “progressives.” They don’t practice what they preach.

    #106886
    Billy_T
    Participant

    To sum up, WV. As you know, I’m terrible at being succinct!!

    ;>)

    Clinton and that CNN guest are dead wrong to smear Gabbard (and Stein). It’s ugly and reprehensible and, frankly, pathetic. They don’t even try to provide evidence.

    We both know they can’t.

    #106888
    wv
    Participant

    I duckduckgo’d Anderson Cooper and the CIA. It appears to be yet another case of Dore jumping the gun.

    He interned with them during the summer of his sophomore and junior years at Yale, apparently. And that was the end of his connection, as far as we know.

    Could he have retained the connection? Sure. Of course. Could he be Jason Bourne in disguise? Sure. But Dore should have been honest about this, instead of insinuating that he “worked for the CIA” in some sinister capacity as an adult.

    Seriously, I have less and less patience for these youtube-host “progressives.” They don’t practice what they preach.

    =================

    Ok, we just have different reactions to Dore. I dont mind his ‘shoot from the hip’ qualities. I think of him as a ‘gonzo’ type. Also, I dont have a problem with saying Anderson Cooper ‘worked for the CIA’ if he indeed interned with them. Its the same thing to me. He chose to intern with Murder-Inc, imho. It tells me a lot about him. Is there really any ‘non-sinister’ way to work for the CIA? They are a Murder-Organization. Or do you see them as more nuanced than that? 🙂

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by wv.
    #106891
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Ok, we just have different reactions to Dore. I dont mind his ‘shoot from the hip’ qualities. I think of him as a ‘gonzo’ type. Also, I dont have a problem with saying Anderson Cooper ‘worked for the CIA’ if he indeed interned with them. Its the same thing to me. He chose to intern with Murder-Inc, imho. It tells me a lot about him. Is there really any ‘non-sinister’ way to work for the CIA? They are a Murder-Organization. Or do you see them as more nuanced than that? 🙂

    w
    v

    First off, we agree about how reprehensible it is to smear Gabbard. That was your initial question. And I added the Clinton interview to point out that she smeared Stein as well. Again, that really, really pisses me off.

    As mentioned above, Dore was spot on in his critique of the CNN guest, and justified in blasting him for what he said.

    I just have a problem with him then turning around and basically engaging in what he just accused others of doing. He should practice what he preaches, in my view.

    As for the CIA and Anderson:

    I tend to cut teenagers a lot of slack when it comes to their choices. Anderson was a teen when he interned for the CIA. If he’s maintained a relationship without letting his audience know, then I have a problem with that. But not the initial internship.

    As for the CIA itself: We’re on the same page when it comes to its ugly history and likely current ugly ops. But I think we differ in the overall picture. I think it is actually possible to work for it and not be a part of that monstrous past and/or present. I think it’s possible to work on Intel that actually saves innocent lives around the world. And I don’t mean as the state propagandists would define innocent. I don’t mean in the sense of “America is the greatest nation evah, so whatever we do is the greatest, evah.” I mean legit, objective prevention of the loss of innocent lives . . . through the discovery and disruption of planned attacks.

    My theory of human beings applies to bureaucracies like the CIA too: I honestly, sincerely believe the vast majority of people are basically good, want to just live and let live, and reject hurting others. It’s a relatively small portion of humanity that seeks to harm others, seeks power over others, or worse. A portion of that portion actually loves cruelty, etc. But most of the people in society aren’t like that, and generally won’t engage in that.

    I see our problems as top down, predominantly. The traits that drive people to reach positions of power are all too often sociopathic in nature to begin with. So those in power are, ironically, frequently the last people on earth who should hold it.

    To make a long story short: Yes, I think people can work for the CIA and not be monsters.

    #106892
    Billy_T
    Participant

    WV,

    I hope you managed to get through all of that without falling asleep.

    ;>)

    After rereading my own responses, I often think of Old Hacker and his football posts. Short, direct, to the point. Took seconds to read.

    I wish I had that skill.

    #106896
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    As for the CIA itself: We’re on the same page when it comes its ugly and likely current ugly ops. But I think we differ in the overall picture. I think it is actually possible to work for it and not be a part of that monstrous past and/or present. I think it’s possible to work on Intel that actually saves innocent lives around the world. And I don’t mean as the state propagandists would define innocent. I don’t mean in the sense of “America is the greatest nation evah, so whatever we do is the greatest, evah.” I mean legit, objective prevention of the loss of innocent lives . . . through the discovery and disruption of planned attacks.

    I agree with that. I bet most people who work there have nothing to do with the ‘evil’ that the CIA commits. Analysts, programmers, clerks, secretaries, receptionists, low to mid-level supervisors, etc. I bet a lot or most of the people there are every bit as much in the dark about ‘Deep State’ stuff as the rest of us.

    #106914
    wv
    Participant

    …As for the CIA itself: We’re on the same page when it comes to its ugly history and likely current ugly ops. But I think we differ in the overall picture. I think it is actually possible to work for it and not be a part of that monstrous past and/or present….

    My theory of human beings applies to bureaucracies like the CIA too: I honestly, sincerely believe the vast majority of people are basically good,…

    I see our problems as top down, predominantly…

    ===================

    Can one work for an Org that Murders Socialists and Anti-Capitalists, Tortures, Deals-Drugs, Bribes, Installs Dictators, Funds Dictators, and often in the past and present Actively works against Democracy? And does it all in Secret. And of course Lies and Lies and Lies. The CIA has to lie. Its a secret organization so they have to lie. Part of the job. So can a person work for ‘that’ particular Org and NOT be part of the…oh…what should we call it? “Criminal Activity” is a bloodless kinda vague word but I’ll go with that.

    Can a person work for the CIA (or ‘intern’ for them) and NOT be…’culpable’ for the CIA’s continuing atrocities? Well, i have been thinking about that one for a long time. I think about it a lot. (I think about it partly because i often work for the State in the ‘criminal justice’ system and ‘that’ is not a such a pure thing, either. But then Its all in the open and i get to say whatever i want to say about it. Not like the CIA…)

    People who were Nazis often explained their behavior by saying “we didnt know.” But oftentimes victims of the Nazis respond with “how could you NOT know?.” Is the CIA situation similar to that? I dunno. Shouldnt American citizens be responsible for knowing what their institutions are doing? Isnt that part of being a citizen? If they dont know, why dont they?

    I have no final answers, but I’m pretty sure, when it comes to Muder-Inc, I’m harder on people than you are BT. I know I’m not on totally solid ground here, though. I still mainly have (unanswerable) unsettling questions and not final answers.

    As far as some CIA folks doing ‘good works.’ Sure, I suppose, but then some Nazi’s were veterinarians, and probly saved a lot of German Shepherds, and some Nazi’s were ‘first-responders’, and put out fires. Etc.
    But if someone joined the Nazi’s to do ‘good work’ I’d still have to tilt my head…

    On another note you mentioned your main issue was the top-down thing. I agree, but its complicated aint it. I mean the ‘top’ controls or at least dominates the INFO-flow, the media, etc, so to a large degree the top ‘creates’ the bottom’s ideology. The bottom becomes a frankenstein because of the top. The bottom becomes a problem too. The ‘top’ and the ‘down’ become the same thing. In a way. Sorta.

    Its getting cold here in WV,
    and the leaves are still brown.

    w
    v

    #106918
    Billy_T
    Participant

    WV,

    Well said. I understand why you feel that way about the CIA. But, frankly, isn’t that the case with the majority of “the state”? Should people become police officers, for example, given the history of abuses? Should they become border patrol agents, given its long, long history of (what I would call) state terrorism against migrants? Or the military, given its history, which includes wiping out Native peoples? The list goes on and on, and it’s not limited to the United States, obviously. Every empire on earth has that dilemma. Every empire that has ever existed has engaged in mayhem and the slaughter of the innocent, and each hegemon among those empires has engaged to a greater degree than anyone else.

    If a citizen’s duty is not to participate, then none of us should ever work for anything remotely attached to state power, or private, corporate power. Hell, the medical community has an awful history of testing drugs and procedures on the innocent, resulting in death and other horrors. Should every citizen say no to the healing professions too?

    (Again, splitting this up into two posts. More below)

    #106919
    Billy_T
    Participant

    The thing is, if we all said no, then guess who ends up staffing and running all of these sectors of society? The worst of the worst. In the absence of good people making the case directly for humane, ethical, moral practice, in all of these sectors, each one of them will become far more aggressively rotten or “evil.”

    . . .

    One of the biggest mistakes “the left” made (generations ago) and still makes, in my opinion, is to cede ground on the issue of who runs this and that part of society. Overt and unsaid pressure not to participate in certain realms has pretty much guaranteed that far-right factions control things like the military, police departments around the country, the Intel communities, judgeships, and so on. We all too often believe strongly that our conscience precludes working in those sectors, so we don’t. Guess who fills that void?

    And an agency like the CIA isn’t going anywhere. If “the left” basically boycotts it, it just goes on doing what it does, with a much, much higher concentration of far-right zealots than it might have if we had jumped in to “fix it.”

    As citizens, isn’t it our “duty” to fight against those forces? My mother always said to me that the best way to change the system is from the inside. Depending upon my age at the time, I’d usually argue to one degree or another in favor of a different route. But as I get older, I wonder if she wasn’t correct all along. Not saying that “the left” should ever stop agitating from the outside. Just saying we need the proverbial holistic approach. Outside and inside.

    Marshall Faulk and Stephen Jackson.

    #106920
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Nittany,

    Good extension/improvement of what I suggested above. By naming the specific kinds of jobs, it brings the matter home.

    Thanks.

    #106921
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Quick update on the Clinton smear of Gabbard. Good to see some pushback (from Van Jones, in this case), aired on CNN. Wonder if they received a ton of angry feedback after the Sellers commment . . .

    https://thehill.com/media/466560-cnns-van-jones-clinton-playing-dangerous-game-with-conspiracy-theory-about-gabbard

    Excerpt:

    CNN political commentator Van Jones said Friday that Hillary Clinton was “playing a very dangerous game” by suggesting that Russia was grooming 2020 Democratic hopeful Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) to launch a third-party presidential bid.

    “If you’re concerned about disinformation … that is what just happened — just throw out some information, disinformation, smear somebody,” Jones told CNN host Erin Burnett on Friday night while responding to the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee’s remarks.

    “She is Hillary Clinton. She’s a legend. She’s going to be in the history books, she’s a former nominee of our party, and she just came out against a sitting U.S. congresswoman, a decorated war veteran, and somebody who’s running for the nomination of our party with a complete smear and no facts,” he said.

    “I do not want someone of her stature to legitimate these attacks against anybody,” Jones continued. “If you’ve got real evidence, come forward with it. But if you’re just going to smear people casually on podcasts, you are playing right into the Russians’ hands.”

    #106942
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Jacobin doesn’t trust Gabbard.

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tulsi-gabbard-president-sanders-democratic-party

    Tulsi Gabbard Is Not Your Friend
    BY
    BRANKO MARCETIC
    Tulsi Gabbard is hailed as a progressive champion. But her views on Islam and support for far-right leaders suggest otherwise.

    Hawaii representative Tulsi Gabbard is announced at the 2016 Democratic National Convention. disneyabc / Flickr

    Our new issue, on war and militarism, is out now. Get a discounted subscription today.

    Hawaii representative Tulsi Gabbard is the new progressive darling. She’s young. She surfs. She’s a “rising star” in the Democratic Party, we’re told repeatedly. She might even win the presidency in 2020.

    Much of Gabbard’s elevated stature is due to her endorsement of Bernie Sanders at the end of February 2016, a seemingly principled, politically risky stand that led her to resign as vice chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC).

    But that wasn’t all. Before stepping down, Gabbard earned the ire of Democratic insiders when she called for more than the paltry six debates the party had scheduled under Hillary Clinton ally Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. She continued to needle the establishment on the eve of Clinton’s nomination, and offered a less-than-enthusiastic endorsement of the Democratic standard-bearer in the general election (“Given the remaining choices, like Bernie Sanders, I will be casting my vote for Hillary Clinton,” she said in August). At the Democratic National Convention, she was reportedly swamped with attention from other state delegates. “They like Tulsi because she stood up to the Democratic Party establishment,” said one.

    Gabbard is also a pretty reliably progressive voice in the House on a host of domestic issues. As far back as 2012, she was calling for restoring Glass-Steagall. She opposed any cuts to Medicare or Social Security under the Obama-backed Simpson-Bowles proposal. She believes Obamacare didn’t go far enough and supports universal health care. She’s against nuclear energy, pushed to curb the NSA’s bulk collection of data, and personally protested the Dakota Access Pipeline.

    Yet the starry-eyed anointment of Gabbard has obscured the more unsavory aspects of her politics — so unsavory, in fact, that White House adviser Steve Bannon has reportedly spoken well of her. From her vigorous opposition to the Iran nuclear deal to her obsession with “radical Islam” to her love for the far-right Indian leader Narendra Modi, Gabbard is far from the progressive hero many assume her to be.

    Conservative Beginnings
    Despite her progressive image today, Gabbard has conservative roots. Her father is Mike Gabbard, a former Honolulu city councilman, state senator, and high profile anti-gay activist who led a campaign against same-sex marriage in Hawaii in the 1990s. He founded the educational nonprofit Stop Promoting Homosexuality and bought himself a show on a local radio station to denounce LGBT people.

    Early in her career, Gabbard took after her father. She opposed abortion and supported a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. After Honolulu Magazine emailed her father to ask about his former ties to a conservative Hare Krishna splinter group for a 2004 profile, it was Gabbard who replied angrily, accusing the magazine of “acting as a conduit for The Honolulu Weekly and other homosexual extremist supporters of Ed Case [her father’s opponent].” The same year, she used her platform as a state representative to testify against civil unions, calling the claim that they were different from same-sex marriage “dishonest, cowardly, and extremely disrespectful to the people of Hawaii,” who had voted in favor of Constitutional Amendment 2 in 1998, empowering the legislature to withhold marriage from same-sex couples.

    “As Democrats, we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists,” she said at the time.

    Gabbard has since done a 180, citing her military service in the Middle East as the impetus for her conversion to social liberalism.

    “The contrast between our society and those in the Middle East made me realize that the difference — the reason those societies are so oppressive — is that they are essentially theocracies where the government and government leaders wield the power to both define and then enforce ‘morality,’” she wrote in a December 2011 post. “I began to realize that the positions I had held previously regarding the issues of choice and gay marriage were rooted in the same premise held by those in power in the oppressive Middle East regimes I saw.”

    She effected a similar about-face on abortion, even receiving an endorsement from EMILY’S List during her 2012 congressional run despite her history of opposing reproductive rights.

    And why not? Gabbard was only twenty-three when she expounded her socially conservative views, and it’s not unheard of for people’s thinking to evolve.

    But suspicion of Gabbard lingers. Her state Democratic Party LGBT caucus, for instance, openly distrusts her, and backed her Democratic primary opponent in 2016. When questioned why the LGBT caucus, which had actually supported her three years earlier, had turned against her, the chairman cited two things. One was her less-than-stellar answers to a questionnaire the LGBT Caucus had sent. The other was a 2015 interview with Ozy, in which she confirmed that her personal views on gay marriage and abortion hadn’t changed, just her view on whether the government should enforce its vision of morality.

    Gabbard’s campaign subsequently cancelled an interview with the LGBT Caucus, citing a number of private Facebook posts by its chairman and vice chairman in support of her primary opponent as evidence the group was “campaigning” for her. Gabbard’s press aide told Golojuch that “it unfortunately appears that your leadership is out of touch.”

    This came on top of an earlier slight in 2013, when the caucus had asked Gabbard to send someone to testify at the legislative special session on same-sex marriage, only to be told that Gabbard “doesn’t get involved in state politics.” Gabbard’s Hawaiian colleagues in Congress all sent a representative to testify in support.

    Gabbard does not actively work against gay rights. In fact, she’s cosponsored and supported numerous bills favoring the LGBT community during her time in Congress, from the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act to the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

    Still, her questionable loyalty to LGBT and abortion rights is disquieting considering her public reputation as a beacon of progressivism.

    Gabbard’s Anti-Interventionism
    Much of the praise Gabbard receives is for her anti-interventionism. During her 2012 House campaign, she ran ads complaining about “endless war.” She has called for pulling out of Afghanistan, the longest war in US history, suggesting that the government invest the money instead into “rebuilding our own nation through long-term infrastructure projects.” She’s opposed US intervention in Syria since 2013, air strikes in Iraq, and arms sales to Saudi Arabia. She backed Sanders in the Democratic primary because of Clinton’s record of supporting “interventionist regime change wars.”

    All of this has created the impression that Gabbard, unlike much of the Democratic Party, is antiwar.

    She’s not.

    Gabbard’s objections to US wars spring not from a concern for those parts of the world the US military bombs and invades, but exclusively from a concern about the Americans who fight them. As she told Truthout in 2012, her own military service in Iraq and Kuwait “changed my life completely” and revealed the “tremendous cost of war,” recounting the daily casualties and injuries to US troop she saw when she was deployed in a medical unit.

    “The cost of war impacts all of us — both in the human cost and the cost that’s being felt frankly in places like Flint, Michigan, where families and children are devastated and destroyed by completely failed infrastructure because of lack of investment,” she told Glamour magazine in March last year.

    This also formed the thrust of her speech at 2012’s (particularly militaristic) DNC, where she told the crowd, “As a combat veteran, I know the costs of war. The sacrifices made by our troops and our military families are immeasurable.”

    There’s nothing wrong, of course, with expressing empathy for the soldiers who are sent to fight, lose limbs, and die in wars of choice launched by their political leaders. The suffering they and their families endure is heartbreaking, especially considering that many join the military because they lack any other economic opportunities. And the money spent on wars abroad would surely be better used on infrastructure at home.

    But Gabbard’s almost singular focus on the damage these wars inflict domestically, and her comparative lack of focus on the carnage they wreak in the countries under attack, is troubling. It is nationalism in antiwar garb, reinforcing instead of undercutting the toxic rhetoric that treats foreigners as less deserving of dignity than Americans. (Gabbard’s brand of anti-interventionism has even received praise from former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who called for her to be named secretary of state.)

    And it still produces its fair share of bloodshed. Like campaign-era Trump, Gabbard may be against miring the United States in blunderous, short-sighted conflicts that backfire, but she’s more than willing to use America’s military might to go after suspected terrorists around the world (and inevitably kill and maim civilians in the process). In the same Truthout interview, responding to a question about drones, Gabbard said that “there is a place for the use of this technology, as well as smaller, quick-strike special force teams versus tens, if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers occupying space within a country.”

    It’s a point she’s repeated again and again. Responding to questions from Honolulu Civil Beat in 2012, Gabbard said that “the best way to defeat the terrorists is through strategically placed, small quick-strike special forces and drones — the strategy that took out Osama Bin Laden.” She told Fox in 2014 that she would direct “the great military that we have” to conduct “unconventional strategic precise operations to take out these terrorists wherever they are.” The same year, she told Civil Beat that military strategy must “put the safety of Americans above all else” and “utilize our highly skilled special operations forces, work with and support trusted foreign partners to seek and destroy this threat.”

    “In short, when it comes to the war against terrorists, I’m a hawk,” she told the Hawaii Tribune-Herald last year. “When it comes to counterproductive wars of regime change, I’m a dove.”

    In other words, Gabbard would continue the Obama administration’s foreign policy, which itself was a continuation (and in some ways ramping up) of George W. Bush’s foreign policy. She would keep up the drone bombing of seven Muslim countries in the Middle East and North Africa — perhaps even expand it — while also relying more on special operations forces, which are already raiding, assassinating, and gathering intelligence in 70 percent of the world’s countries.

    Drones killed hundreds of civilians over Obama’s eight years, while special operations forces like SEAL Team 6 — which Gabbard specifically name-checked in her positive allusion to the bin Laden raid — are known for their fair share of brutality. It was “quick-strike special forces” conducting a “strategic precise operation,” to use Gabbard’s term, that a little less than four months ago killed thirty civilians in a botched raid in Yemen.

    Not surprisingly, Gabbard has received plaudits from conservatives for her foreign policy stances. The National Review published a glowing profile of the congresswoman in April 2015, complete with a quote from American Enterprise Institute (AEI) president Arthur Brooks saying that he “like her thinking a lot.”

    Gabbard was subsequently one of three Democrats — the others being New Jersey senator Cory Booker and Maryland congressman John Delaney — who secured an invitation to AEI’s annual closed-to-the-press retreat, where she hobnobbed with the likes of Dick Cheney, Bill Kristol, Mike Pence, Rupert Murdoch, the DeVoses, and a host of other major conservative figures. At the AEI’s urging, she had earlier spoken at the Halifax International Security Forum, an annual gathering of national security wonks sponsored by Lockheed Martin, Canada’s Department of National Defence, and others.

    Another reason Gabbard started receiving applause from the Right was her very public skepticism of the Iran deal.

    The Obama administration may have continued much of the Bush approach to the “war on terror,” but it at least recognized the value of diplomacy. Not Gabbard, however, who told Fox News she was “cynical” toward the pact, and agreed with host Greta van Susteren that it was akin to Neville Chamberlain’s infamous Munich agreement with Hitler in 1938.

    Breitbart gleefully quoted her in headlines expressing “many” and “great” concerns over the deal as it was being negotiated. On the day the agreement was finalized, she issued a statement saying, “We cannot afford to make the same mistake with Iran that was made with North Korea,” citing North Korea’s abrogation of the Agreed Framework agreement it had signed in 1994. When Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu delivered his unprecedented speech to Congress in March 2015 in an attempt to torpedo the deal, Gabbard didn’t join the significant number of Democrats who boycotted the speech. She attended it.

    In light of this, the fact that Gabbard received a “Champion of Freedom” award at the Jewish Values Gala — an awards ceremony held by the World Values Network, which was founded by Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, an enthusiastic Trump supporter — in between campaigning for Sanders is less puzzling.

    On Rabbi Shmuley’s Facebook page, Gabbard’s award win is recounted in the same post that celebrates making then–Secretary of State John Kerry renounce his statements that Israeli policies contribute to terrorism against Israel. A photo from the event shows Gabbard posing with Rabbi Shmuley and Miriam Adelson, the wife of Sheldon Adelson (Adelson himself is a major Trump supporter, and happens to believe Palestinians are “a made-up people”). As her Democratic primary opponent pointed out, Gabbard has introduced Adelson-backed legislation to Congress before.

    Clearly liberals and leftists who admire Gabbard’s foreign policy are mistaking her anti-interventionism for dovishness. But Gabbard’s foreign policy, while an improvement on Trump’s — and what isn’t? — would continue to foment anti-American resentment and anger around the world, with its casualties, destruction, and casual violations of national sovereignty, fueling the very “endless war” she despises.

    “Unfortunate and Disturbing”
    Which brings us to Gabbard’s other major red flag. Given her support for drones and special ops strikes, it’s not surprising to find that Gabbard never mentions US foreign policy as a catalyst for anti-American sentiment in regions like the Middle East, despite copious evidence to the contrary.

    So what is the cause of terrorism, according to Gabbard? Islam, of course.

    Before she became a progressive darling for endorsing Sanders, Gabbard became a conservative darling for relentlessly hawking the idea — later popularized by Trump — that Obama’s foreign policy was failing because he refused to use the term “Islamic extremism,” or some variation of it.

    From 2014 onward, Gabbard appeared regularly on Fox News to lambast the Obama administration for avoiding the phrase. In one interview, she told the host that “the vast majority of terrorist attacks conducted around the world for over the last decade have been conducted by groups who are fueled by this radical Islamic ideology,” a statement that may be technically true due to the violence and instability plaguing Middle Eastern countries, but is wildly misleading considering that non-Muslims make up the vast, vast majority of terrorist perpetrators in both Europe and the United States.

    In the wake of the Charlie Hebdo shootings in January 2015, Gabbard complained on Fox News that by “not using this term ‘Islamic extremism’ and clearly identifying our enemies,” the administration couldn’t “come up with a very effective strategy to defeat that enemy.” She told Neil Cavuto that “this isn’t about one specific group,” but about “this radical Islamic ideology that is fueling this,” and that it needed to be defeated “militarily and ideologically.” She characterized Obama’s refusal to “recognize” the enemy as “mind-boggling” and “troubling.”

    And it wasn’t just on Fox. Gabbard took her message to any network or outlet that would have her. On CNN, she called Kerry’s refusal to use the term “unfortunate and disturbing.” In an interview with the Hill, she stressed that radical Islam was at the heart of the problem, necessitating “a simultaneous ideological strategy” to defeat terrorists.

    The Right was smitten. Breitbart ran article after article trumpeting her criticisms, and former US representative Allen West praised Gabbard for “dar[ing] to challenge Obama.”

    In February 2015, Gabbard had the chance to question Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency Vincent Stewart. She asked him (while clearly fishing for a particular answer) about the debate over “how this ideology, how this motivation, must be identified” and what “common elements” existed among different Islamic terrorist groups, including ISIS, al-Qaeda, and Boko Haram. She then went on Fox and reported that Stewart had “identified very clearly that it is this radical Islamic ideology that is fueling” these groups.

    But Gabbard had heavily distorted what Stewart actually said. While he did call ISIS “a radical ideology that must be countered with a moderate ideology,” he also pointed out that the common elements that had produced such groups were “ungoverned states, weak government institution, economic instability, poverty.”

    This was par for the course for Gabbard, who regularly used her TV appearances to brush off, even mock, alternative explanations for terrorism. After Kerry gave a speech at Davos stressing the importance of acknowledging the various drivers of extremism — noting that some extremist fighters “are lured by basic, material considerations” like “the promise of regular meals, a paycheck,” while others are motivated by the chance “to escape boredom” and “be lured by a false sense of success” — Gabbard tore into him on CNN.

    “This is completely missing the point,” she said, calling it a “huge mistake” to think “that somehow, okay, well, look if we give them $10,000 and give them a nice place to live, that somehow they’re not going to be engaged in this fighting.” She cited Osama bin Laden as an example, a “multi-millionaire who left his mansions, went and lived in the desert because of this radical ideology.” She reappeared on CNN a month later, denying that “if we just go in and alleviate poverty, if we go in and create jobs and increase opportunity,” it would help solve the problem.

    Naturally, it wasn’t long before she appeared on Bill Maher’s program, where the two bonded over their mutual distrust of “Islamic extremism” and their disagreement with Kerry’s comments. After agreeing with Maher that it was “crazy” Obama didn’t want to use the two magic words, Gabbard reiterated her point: “Give them a big house, give them a skateboard, send them on their way. You think that’s going to solve the problem? It’s not.”

    Gabbard’s insistence that economic factors play no role in fostering extremism, and in fueling ISIS specifically, is belied by the facts. The group pays its recruiters thousands of dollars, and Hamas officers have explicitly outlined how the promise of money has drawn Gazans to ISIS. “Those in Syria often send pictures back home showing large banknotes to lure others out,” one officer told journalist Sarah Helm.

    Gabbard’s worldview also leaves out the role that European and US governments, particularly the Reagan administration, have played in bringing hardline fundamentalists to power and prominence. Bin Laden may have been a millionaire, but he was also a CIA recruit.

    Gabbard’s suspicion of Islam goes beyond rhetoric. Last year, she supported legislation that would have barred those on the no-fly list — a list that makes a mockery of due process — from buying guns. Before that, in 2014, Gabbard introduced a bill that would have halted the visa waiver program for countries whose citizens had gone to fight with extremists, claiming that the program “puts the American people in danger.” Had it passed, people from the UK, France, Germany, and many other European countries would have been forced to apply for visas before visiting the United States.

    In reality, foreign-born terrorists carrying out acts of violence in the United States, particularly from visa waiver countries, is virtually nonexistent. Yet Gabbard hyped the threat. “If we do nothing to close this loophole, and allow a terrorist to carry out an attack on our homeland, the impacts will be devastating,” she warned.

    Gabbard’s hardline stance carried over to the subject of refugees. She was one of forty-seven Democrats to join the House GOP in passing the SAFE Act in 2015, which would have added extra requirements to the already onerous refugee vetting process and effectively ground to a halt the admission of Syrian and Iraqi refugees into the country. In a statement, Gabbard claimed she was voting for the bill to save the refugee program.

    Two months before that, however, she had introduced a resolution calling for the United States to prioritize religious and ethnic minorities in the Middle East — namely, Christians and Yezidis — when granting refugee status. “These persecuted religious minority groups must be our first priority,” she said. In essence, her position — throwing more roadblocks in front of Syrian refugees, while making an exception for Christians — is the same as that of the Trump administration, whose original refugee ban exempted “religious minorities.”

    So it was little surprise that shortly after the election, Trump held talks with Gabbard — a meeting set up by Steve Bannon, a longtime admirer of the Hawaii congresswoman. Sources told the Hill at the time that Bannon “loves her” and “wants to work with her on everything,” and that “she would fit perfectly” in the administration because “she gets the foreign policy stuff, the Islamic terrorism stuff.” (Gabbard’s name was conspicuously missing from the letter 169 House Democrats signed last November calling for Trump to rescind Bannon’s appointment.)

    Gabbard didn’t end up getting a job with the Trump administration, which might explain why she seems to have somewhat softened her stances recently. She came out against Trump’s refugee and travel bans, for example. And around the same time, Gabbard spoke at an event held by the group Muslims for Peace, in which she uncharacteristically spoke of “so-called religious terrorism” and affirmed that “the perpetrators of these horrific actions have no connection with the spiritual love that lies at the heart of all religions.”

    Coincidentally, Gabbard used the speech to finally explain her long-running refrain that the US must defeat extremism “ideologically.” The answer, according to Gabbard, is confronting such ideologies with “a consciousness of love.” While promoting peace, love, and respect is undeniably admirable, it’s hard to see why Gabbard views the vague concept of “confronting” extremism with “love” as less wishy washy than the idea of preventing terrorism by fighting poverty and political oppression in war-torn countries.

    Friends Like These
    As her flirtation with Trump and Bannon shows, Gabbard’s hardline stance on terrorism and Islam tends to leave her with questionable friends.

    To her credit, Gabbard has supported legislation to block arms sales to Saudi Arabia, citing both the carnage the Saudis were raining down on innocent civilians in Yemen and the Saudis’ spread of Wahhabism, a reactionary form of Islam.

    But Gabbard is less discerning when autocrats aren’t motivated by “radical Islam.” In November 2015, she traveled to Egypt as part of a congressional delegation and met Egyptian dictator Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, part of an effort to strengthen US-Egypt relations. Sisi may be a blood-soaked tyrant who’s killed hundreds of Egyptians and imprisoned many thousands more, but as Gabbard made clear at the time, he’s tough where it counts.

    “President el-Sisi has shown great courage and leadership in taking on this extreme Islamist ideology, while also fighting against ISIS militarily to keep them from gaining a foothold in Egypt,” Gabbard said, urging US political leaders to “recognize President el-Sisi and his leadership” and “stand with him in this fight against . . . Islamic extremists.” Some of the Sisi government’s fantastic accomplishments in this fight include killing a group of Mexican tourists and quite possibly torturing and murdering an Italian PhD student.

    But perhaps Gabbard’s closest friend on the world stage is India’s Hindu nationalist prime minister Narendra Modi. It’s an ideal match in many respects — not because the two happen to share a faith (Gabbard is the first Hindu American in Congress), but because they both harbor noxious attitudes toward Muslims.

    Modi began his career as an activist in Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), a right-wing, nationalist organization that stokes anti-Muslim sentiment in the country and has been banned four separate times (one of its members assassinated Gandhi over accusations he was appeasing Muslims). While Modi eventually left the RSS for his current party, the BJP, the two are heavily connected: the RSS mobilized to get Modi elected, and several BJP officials used to be members of the RSS.

    Shortly after September 11, Modi claimed on TV that Islam had tried “to put its flag in the whole world” since the fourteenth century and that “the situation today is the result of that.” As he campaigned for election in 2014, he threatened to deport undocumented immigrants from Bangladesh (who are mostly Muslim), calling them “infiltrators.”

    But most appalling was his role in the 2002 anti-Muslim riots in the western state of Gujarat, which left one thousand people dead, nearly eight hundred of whom were Muslims. Modi was the state’s chief minister at the time and has long been accused of allowing the riots to happen, with a former senior police officer testifying in 2011 that Modi said the night before the riots that Muslims needed to be taught a lesson.

    Despite all of this, Gabbard has been one of Modi’s most prominent boosters in the US. “He is a leader whose example and dedication to the people he serves should be an inspiration to elected officials everywhere,” she said of Modi in 2014.

    For about a decade, the United States refused to give Modi a visa to travel to the US in light of his involvement in the Gujarat riots. For Gabbard, this was a “great blunder,” and she later told the press that “there was a lot of misinformation that surrounded the event in 2002.” She personally congratulated Modi on his 2014 election, and was later involved in organizing his first trip to the US. She also met two BJP leaders who had visited the United States beforehand, and spoke alongside them at an event in Atlanta.

    When a congressional panel was held in April 2014 on “the plight of religious minorities in India,” with witnesses testifying about the mistreatment of Muslims, Gabbard said she didn’t “believe the time of this hearing is a coincidence” and that it aimed to “influence the outcome of India’s national elections.” Gabbard voted against House Resolution 417, which criticized India’s record on religious violence and called for specific measures to guarantee religious freedom in the country, explaining that its passage wouldn’t help US-India relations. Yet two years later, Gabbard introduced a similar resolution that covered neighboring Muslim-majority Bangladesh, saying she was “particularly concerned over issues of religious freedom, and specifically, attacks against minority Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, and others” in the country.

    There are likely any number of motivations for Gabbard’s steadfast defense of Modi and conditions in India, but similar to her cozying up with Sisi, she specifically cited India’s role as a partner in the war against Islamic terrorists. “For many reasons — not the least of which is the war against terrorists — the relationship between India and America is very important,” she told Quartz last March. A year earlier, while visiting India and meeting with Modi, she told the press that “in order to defeat [terrorism], we (India and the US) will have to work together.”

    Beyond the PR
    Tulsi Gabbard isn’t all bad. In several areas, she’s further to the left than a number of mainstream Democrats. But her bucking of the Democratic Party establishment, her support from Sanders, and her consistent opposition to regime change has distracted many from the more disquieting parts of her record.

    If the glowing profiles of Gabbard are right, she stands poised to become one of the leaders of the Democratic Party. If so, progressives will have to drop any starry-eyed admiration, and take a good, hard, honest look at who Tulsi Gabbard really is.

    Her rhetoric about Islam wouldn’t be out of place on a Republican debate stage. Her anti-interventionism is shot through with a pernicious nationalism. Her support for Modi legitimizes a leader with a record of enabling anti-Muslim brutality.

    Sanders’s seal of approval shouldn’t be taken as the final word on Tulsi Gabbard. After all, should we really champion a presidential candidate who could easily have been slotted into a Trump cabinet?

    #106944
    wv
    Participant

    WV,

    Well said. I understand why you feel that way about the CIA. But, frankly, isn’t that the case with the majority of “the state”? Should people become police officers, for example, given the history of abuses? Should they become border patrol agents, given its long, long history of (what I would call) state terrorism against migrants? Or the military…

    =================

    Well, i ask myself those questions all the time. I dont have solid answers.

    But just in my ‘own’ mind, the CIA is in a special category. Maybe because its a SECRET organization, AND because it seems to me it is the bloodiest. Its the deep-state. They murder socialists BT. They always have. They still do. Its…their…Mission. Stop socialism by any means necessary. In secret. With our tax dollars.

    So i just dont care about the fact they also ‘do some good’ in the world. I have no doubt they do. So did Al Capone. So does the Mafia.

    I just dont put police departments in the same category.

    The military is trickier for me. I go back and forth on the military.

    One of the never-to-be-resolved-problems of living in a Corporotacracy is the system puts leftists in an impossible situation. Join the system and you are part of a system that destroys poor people, etc. Dont join the system…and watch your family starve to death while you try to sell anti-war poetry or paint pretty pictures of sunsets, or try to run an indy book store or somethin.

    The system makes it very hard to be a resister. Most folks who can resist…already have a trust fund 🙂

    w
    v

    #106945
    wv
    Participant

    Jacobin doesn’t trust Gabbard.

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/tulsi-gabbard-president-sanders-democratic-party

    Tulsi Gabbard Is Not Your Friend
    BY
    BRANKO MARCETIC
    Tulsi Gabbard is hailed as a progressive champion. But her views on Islam and support for far-right leaders suggest otherwise.

    ===================

    Enh. I agree and disagree. Basically the Jacobin-socialist-writer is being way to much of a ‘purist’ on this. Technically, yes, he’s TOTALLY right, she is NOT a leftist. She doesnt think like a leftist. In many ways she thinks like a somewhat compassionate-conservative.

    But — OF THE CHOICES OPEN to us on the DEMOCRAT ticket, she is indeed the most anti-war choice, imho. I dont even think its close. And that is the reason the deep-state (sorry couldnt resist) LOATHES her. The Dem-Media just loathes her. Hit peice after hit piece from the Dem-MSM.

    Fox News loves her, for obvious reasons — cause she skewers the Dem Candidates by calling out their hypocrisy. Look what she did to Kamala and others. The Right loves that. And they know she’s not a real threat to Trump, her numbers are way to low. They know she’s not going to win. So the reason they love her is not hard to figure out – shes not a threat to them, but she can wreak havoc with the Dems.

    But yeah, she’s not a leftist and doesnt think like one. But if you think endless-deep-state-war is a HUGE problem — she’s the best candidate. If you want universal health care — she supports it. If you want to address climate change — she’s good on that. There’s no other Dem Candidate that combines all THREE of those three things, imho.

    Name another Dem Candidate in the last ten years that was as Anti-Imperialist as Tulsi Gabbard?

    w
    v

    #106951
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    But yeah, she’s not a leftist and doesnt think like one. But if you think endless-deep-state-war is a HUGE problem — she’s the best candidate. If you want universal health care — she supports it. If you want to address climate change — she’s good on that. There’s no other Dem Candidate that combines all THREE of those three things, imho.

    Name another Dem Candidate in the last ten years that was as Anti-Imperialist as Tulsi Gabbard?

    w
    v

    Yeah, the fact that she’s not a true leftist doesn’t bother me that much. I don’t agree with the majority of leftists when it comes to stuff like nuclear power and biotechnology. Climate change and the environment are the most important issues to me, and outside of returning to the Bronze Age, I don’t think we can reverse climate change without serious expansion of nuclear power. We need to have a diverse energy portfolio sans fossil fuel. We need to have wind power in places where wind power makes sense, solar power where solar power makes sense, and most importantly, we need nuclear power.

    Gabbard is staunchly anti-nuclear, so she won’t get my vote anyway, but other than that the only issue raised by the article above that I think might have merit is the Islamophobia. She’s anti-war when it comes to regime change and colonialism, but her record says she’s all for bombing Muslims.

    She’s anti-abortion and apparently doesn’t believe in same sex marriage, but she doesn’t seem to let that influence the way she votes.

    #106953
    wv
    Participant

    She’s anti-abortion and apparently doesn’t believe in same sex marriage, but she doesn’t seem to let that influence the way she votes.

    ===============

    From what I’ve read she is pro-choice and pro-same-sex-marriage. She evolved. Which is good.

    w
    v
    “While many Americans may relate to growing up in a conservative home, my story is a little different because my father was very outspoken. He was an activist who was fighting against gay rights and marriage equality in Hawaii — and at that time, I forcefully defended him,” Gabbard explained in a tweet. “But over the years, I formed my own opinions based on my life experience that changed my views — at a personal level in having aloha, love, for all people, and ensuring that every American, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity, is treated equally under the law.”

    Not so long ago, Gabbard’s opposition to gay marriage would not have been so unusual from a Democratic presidential hopeful.

    It was Bill Clinton, after all, who enacted “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.” In 2008, both of the leading Democratic presidential candidates — Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton — opposed same-sex marriage. That reflected where the country stood. In 2002, only about a third of adults favored same-sex marriage, including less than half of Democrats, according to the Pew Research Center.

    But that’s changedhttps…://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/18/tulsi-gabbards-pivot-lgbt-issues-not-uncommon-socially-conservative-democrats/

    #106954
    wv
    Participant

    PS: I suppose I’d be for Nuke-power if it was Nationalized and it was done with all kinds of transparency and it was the will of a critically-informed-citizenry.

    I probly wouldnt be for it if it were based on a For-Profit system in a corporotacracy.

    w
    v

    #106962
    wv
    Participant

    #106966
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    PS: I suppose I’d be for Nuke-power if it was Nationalized and it was done with all kinds of transparency and it was the will of a critically-informed-citizenry.

    I probly wouldnt be for it if it were based on a For-Profit system in a corporotacracy.

    w
    v

    Well, nationalized would certainly be best but we need it regardless of who owns it or how it’s managed.

    Wind and solar on their own cannot supply the world’s growing energy needs and people will never make the sacrifices necessary to reverse climate change without it.

    #106977
    wv
    Participant

    PS: I suppose I’d be for Nuke-power if it was Nationalized and it was done with all kinds of transparency and it was the will of a critically-informed-citizenry.

    I probly wouldnt be for it if it were based on a For-Profit system in a corporotacracy.

    w
    v

    Well, nationalized would certainly be best but we need it regardless of who owns it or how it’s managed.

    Wind and solar on their own cannot supply the world’s growing energy needs and people will never make the sacrifices necessary to reverse climate change without it.

    ==================

    Well, I’m doing some nuclear testing in my bathtub this week. I think I’m almost past the prototype stage and should be ready for the market in time for the Christmas Season.

    Btw, do you know whether Plutonium has to be refrigerated, or can i just leave it in a cabinet?

    w
    v

    #106987
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    Btw, do you know whether Plutonium has to be refrigerated, or can i just leave it in a cabinet?

    w
    v

    Is it weapons grade? If it is it’s probably best to keep it hidden away in a safe place where Owl Kida can’t find it. Like under your pillow or in a sock drawer.

    #106988
    Zooey
    Moderator

    I was anti-nuclear in my 20s.

    But I’ve come to a different position in the past 15 or 20 years. Global warming is an existential threat, and the threat of nuclear accidents seems to be diminished since 3 mile island and Chernobyl. The French have used it for decades. They’ve got it figured out, one would think.

    So…while I still think it’s not a good idea…I think it’s necessary as we transition to green energy sources.

    #107087
    wv
    Participant

    #107197
    wv
    Participant

    Aaron Mate refers to the time….Bill Clinton was given half a million dollars by Russian investment bank…..Just IMAGINE what MSNBC, CNN and NPR would say if Jill Stein’s husband or Tulsi’s husband had that kind of russia connection…

    #107209
    Zooey
    Moderator

    The Uncomfortable Truth About Tulsi Gabbard


    What follows is a conversation between The Nation’s Jeet Heer and Marc Steiner of The Real News Network. Read a transcript of their conversation below or watch the video at the bottom of the post.

    Marc Steiner: Welcome to The Real News Network. I’m Marc Steiner. Good to have you all with us.

    Hillary Clinton has now accused both Green presidential candidate Jill Stein and Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of being Russian assets. Now, there’s a long history in this country of being accused of being a Russian asset. There’s a history that goes back to unions and black activists in this country in the 30s, again going after people in the 1950s with the House Un-American Activities Committee, to anti-war and black activists in the 60s, working on behalf of the Russians, they said. The Soviet Union is what it was called back then. So now it’s back. And Tulsi Gabbard is now an asset of the Russians to ensure a Trump victory in 2020.

    Okay, so the Russians may be undermining some things. I mean, they learned it from us. Everybody does it. That’s not the case here. But asset? Agents? What’s really going on here? Many on the left see Tulsi Gabbard as an anti-war candidate. But the whole thing is much more nuanced than that. While Hillary Clinton once again is showing why she lost, Tulsi is not a simple anti-war candidate. A lot of ground to cover here in this short time to go through what all this means, which is why we’re about to talk with Jeet Heer, National Correspondent of The Nation, who just wrote the article, “The Real Trouble With Tulsi” that appeared in recent Nation online. And Jeet, welcome back. Good to have you with us.

    Jeet Heer: Good to be here.

    Marc Steiner: So let’s just start with former Secretary of State and former Senator Hillary Clinton, former presidential candidate, and what she did here and the attacks she made. It kind of took a lot of people by surprise. She just kind of blurted that out on this radio show. I mean, what do you think that was about?

    Jeet Heer: [crosstalk 00:01:45]. I thought you were going to play the audio. So yeah, no, it is really surprising. I wasn’t completely taken by surprise because we’ve heard rumblings of this from Clinton’s circle. The New York Times had an article about Gabbard just a few days before the audio which quoted a Clinton advisor saying very similar things. But it is a very shocking thing for the former presidential candidate, nominee for her party, former Secretary of State, to say that an elected congresswoman is a Russian asset.

    The first thing to say is that there’s no evidence of this. This is a completely fanciful, speculative statement. But also, the whole term “Russian asset,” as you indicated, is very problematic. It’s kind of a CIA term. It’s a term coming out of the world of espionage. And it’s designed to kind of smear people. It’s a weaselly, slippery term because it creates ambiguity between people who are consciously agents of a foreign power and people who are assisted by a foreign power unknowingly. And in this case, the idea of an asset extends to, well, if you get retweeted by Russian bots, you’re an asset. Well, we can’t control who we get retweeted by. So it’s a very, very dubious statement.

    Marc Steiner: I mean, and when you look at this, and the history, as I alluded to in the beginning of the program, is that if you were a union activist or a radical activist in the 30s, especially if you were a black radical activist in the 30s, you were accused of being a Russian agent, all the people called up before HUAC whose lives were destroyed. If you opposed the Vietnam War, if you supported civil rights in the beginning, you were a communist. And that meant you were a Russian asset, or a Soviet asset in those days. So using this in this way is hearkening back to a different time, and that has not left us yet, which is part of the problem here.

    Jeet Heer: Yeah, no, absolutely. As I said, it comes out of the CIA and the sort of Cold War mentality, and in some ways is maybe a sign that people who were formed by the Cold War, people in the espionage world, and people like Hillary Clinton, are having a hard time adapting to this new world and they’re bringing the terminology that they’re used to. And I mean, it’s very bad.

    I’ll give you one example of why it’s bad from my own magazine, which was, we had a writer, a great journalist, I. F. Stone-

    Marc Steiner: Oh yeah, sure.

    Jeet Heer: … and there were people who accused him of being a Russian asset. But their evidence of that was that he would meet with the Russian ambassador as part of his journalistic duties, and would meet with other Russian people to gather information. So basically, you’re criminalizing or trying to cast as treason the basic act of journalism.

    Marc Steiner: And I mean, and I knew Izzy. He was a mentor of mine when I was at the Washington Free Press back in the 60s. And yeah, I mean, to call him a Russian asset is almost as absurd as this.

    Jeet Heer: Yes.

    Marc Steiner: Let’s take a look though here, this is a response that Tulsi Gabbard tweeted out. And we’ll also look at John Nichols’ writing about this as well. So Tulsi tweets out: “Great. Thank you to Hillary Clinton. You, the queen of warmongers, the embodiment of corruption, the personification of the rot that has sickened the Democratic Party for so long, have finally come out from behind the curtain. From the day I announced my candidacy,” blah, blah, blah.

    But then, your colleague and our friend, John Nichols, tweets out something really interesting. Let’s look at this and talk about this. He said: “Yesterday, Tulsi Gabbard had 606,000 Twitter followers. She’ll finish today with 656,000 followers. That’s a startling jump in interest in her candidacy. And there’s a fair bet to be made that this Tulsi surge is not finished. It’s starting to look like Clinton did her a favor.” So yeah, I mean, this is backfiring in many ways on Hillary Clinton and the centrist Democrats in their attack on Tulsi.

    Jeet Heer: Yeah, I don’t know. It depends on what Clinton was up to, to see if it’s backfiring. But it’s definitely elevated Tulsi Gabbard. And in that sense, Hillary Clinton is Tulsi Gabbard’s asset. And if Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian asset, then Hillary Clinton is a Russian asset by two degrees.

    But I think this is a very typical Clinton behavior though. And it really has roots in how they see politics. In 2015, DNC staffers prepared a memo where they said, “The best way forward is to elevate the fringe candidates of the Republican Party,” and they named Ben Carson, and they named Donald Trump, and Ted Cruz. And so, the idea was that if you elevate fringe figures, then you can present yourself as the more moderate alternative. And as we know, that worked out wonderfully well.

    Marc Steiner: So let’s talk about though the other [inaudible 00:06:43] heart of what you’re writing about. And I think that this is something … I’ve received different emails from people who watch The Real News upset we didn’t have Tulsi on more. And I look forward to interviewing Tulsi about all this as well, directly. But to really wrestle with her record, and what she’s really done and said, so let’s take this back for a minute. Let’s look at something that has happened with her interaction with the Indian Prime Minister, Modi, and also with Sisi when she went there. And what was interesting to see is that, Murtaza Mohammad Hussain tweeted this, he said: “If you want to know why Tulsi Gabbard is accused of being a supporter of murderous dictators who fit her ideology rather than a simple peacenik, reminder, she did a solidarity visit to Sisi after he massacred 800 protesters in one day. Don’t think Egypt was facing regime change.”

    So let’s talk a bit about that. There are some contradictions here. I’ll go back to something you wrote in your article in a moment as well. She’s a complex character when it comes to this. I mean, it’s not so simple.

    Jeet Heer: Yeah, yeah. No, no, I think to understand Gabbard, you have to understand the war on terror and the kind of … which has been going on for long enough that there are soldiers serving in Afghanistan who were born after 9/11. And Gabbard has a very interesting background in Hawaii, belonged to a group that’s kind of an offshoot of Hare Krishna. But after 2004, she joined the military and she served in Iraq in sort of a combat zone. And I think a lot of her politics is the sort of frustration that many soldiers have with the war on terror, with especially the sort of boots on the ground strategy and the regime change strategy.

    But her alternative is very similar to Trump. It’s like more rubble, less trouble. What you do instead of Bush-style regime change, or Obama-style regime change, is you support the hard-line dictators in the region, use drones and targeted assassinations. And so it’s not something that I think the left should be very comfortable with. She’s very much … She calls herself a “hawk,” and she is a hawk.

    Marc Steiner: Well, I mean, in your article, you wrote that, you had this quote here in your article, you said, “‘In short, when it comes to the war against terrorists, I’m a hawk,’ Gabbard told a newspaper in 2018. ‘And when it comes to counterproductive wars of regime change, I’m a dove.’ And as Marcetic notes …” you write, this fellow who wrote in Jacobin that you quote, “‘Gabbard is offering nationalism in anti-war garb, reinforcing instead of undercutting the toxic rhetoric that treats foreigners as less deserving of dignity than Americans.’”

    So let’s wrestle with that for a moment. I mean, how real do you think that is? I mean, and it’s not an uncommon thing to say we don’t want to end up overthrowing governments and starting wars, but how do you respond to terrorism? So this is something Americans wrestle with as well. And she may, in some senses, be hitting a pulse of what a lot of Americans are confused about and wrestling with.

    Jeet Heer: That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. And I think, as I said, she’s a product of the war on terror. But the solution that she’s come to, I think is a very problematic solution. It is very Trump-like. And I think this is one reason why Trump has had some success. But we have to really challenge this politics that the best way is not to do regime change, but to just support really terrible dictators and to sort of do selective counter-terrorism.

    I think what gets left out of the equation, what gets left out of her equation is diplomacy. And that’s what someone like Bernie Sanders offers. Bernie Sanders has a more sort of social democratic foreign policy. And he recognizes we have to actually really get at some of the root causes of these problems. So we have to actually have diplomacy to deal with Israel, Palestine, and we have to have democracy promotion that’s not based on sending in the Marines, but actually using diplomatic resources.

    Marc Steiner: So let me conclude with this. I mean, the Tulsi Gabbard question, she’s a very interesting politician, she has ideas that are across the board. And just to add, when she was a kid, she was kind of born into this kind of [inaudible 00:11:15] … She didn’t join it. I mean, her father was part of it, and she was kind of in it-

    Jeet Heer: Yes, [crosstalk 00:11:19]-

    Marc Steiner: … and has kind of since distanced herself from all of that. But at the same time, when Trump was elected, it appeared she was seriously considering joining his administration. Steve Bannon liked her. And you’ve seen articles recently about how a lot of people on the right and libertarians really think a lot of her. So I mean, she, in some ways, reminds me of a lot of people, as I said earlier, are struggling with how to define the future. And she has that kind of confused thing. That’s why people, I think are not quite sure where she stands or what she really stands for.

    Jeet Heer: Yeah, no, I think that’s exactly right, that she’s … And I think she’s always had this sort of bipartisan instinct all along, which is not a terrible instinct, by any means. But I think it becomes terrible when the person you want to link up with is Trump. And she has been more Trump-curious than any other major Democrat. And I think that, in some ways, the end point of the solutions that she’s coming to, precisely because she rejects diplomacy, are kind of like Trump solutions. And so it’s not surprising that a lot of Republicans like her. And I think we have to be very … It’s not enough to call yourself “anti-war,” you actually have to have positions that will lead to a more peaceful world. And I don’t see that with her. So even though I think Hillary Clinton is terrible for bringing up this false accusation of being a Russian asset, there are other good reasons to criticize Tulsi Gabbard.

    Marc Steiner: That’s why I loved your article so much. It was really very well-balanced and really an interesting view that I think more people should read. And we’ll connect to that on our website. And Jeet Heer, I want to thank you once again for joining us here on The Real News. I enjoy your writing because it always makes us think. And have a great rest of the day.

    Jeet Heer: Always great to be here, a lovely conversation.

    Marc Steiner: Take care. And I’m Marc Steiner here for The Real News Network. Thank you all for joining us. Let us know what you think. If you like Tulsi, write to me and I’ll write you back, and we’ll go back and forth about it. Take care.

    #107210
    Zooey
    Moderator

    So…according that that ^^^^, she’s just Obama. Drones, not troops.

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