- This topic has 41 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 2 months ago by
.
-
The Rams reportedly had a valuable offer for Donald on the table before the start of training camp, but Donald’s representation insisted it was not a fair price for the Pro Bowler and decided to keep at negotiations.
Until I know the actual numbers and structure, I can’t judge the value of the contract offered to Donald. I do know what numbers and structure I would consider fair. They equal ~10% of the Cap, year by year. Plus a bit to make up for some of 2017 and 2018.
AgamemnonThey equal ~10% of the Cap, year by year. Plus a bit to make up for some of 2017 and 2018.
I would go to 11%.
In 2015, Suh got a little over 13%.
That is kind of the rub with discussing this. How do you get your 11 and 13 and how do I get my 10?. How about this, $157 million over the next 8 years?
AgamemnonI just did the year of the signing. In 2015, Suh’s 19 M a year was 13+% of a 143 M cap.
Contracts go up so I was figuring AD as at least 20 M a year (which, reportedly, they have offered). Out of an estimated 2018 cap of 178 M, that’s 11+ %.
I figure 6 years for 120 M though it may get to 4 years for 80 M.
For Suh, I add the Cap for all 6yrs., divided by 6 then did the percent.
.
For Donald, I added the 6yrs for 12o to 2017 and 2018. That way I can get 157 million for 8. Anythig less and I have to go below 20M/yr. The best I could do for the first 4yrs is 70M, then backload it a bit. I did that so I would not have to increase my Cap hit in 2017 and 2018. Agamemnon
I think that the best solution would be something along the lines of a 6 year, $110M contract with $65-70M guaranteed and as throw much as realistically possible in the first three years. That would put his AAV at $18.3 million – a shade below Suh and Miller, but clearly above every other interior DL. It would also move the needle for players under their rookie contracts seeking extensions and guarantees for non-QBs.
https://overthecap.com/looking-potential-extension-aaron-donald/
Aaron Donald, Los Angeles Rams
5 years, $100M extension; to be signed in 2017 and kick in for 2019
AAV: $20.0M
2017 Salary cap: $167M
% of cap: 12.57%
——————————————————————————————————————
They use the same method for computing percent that you do, zn. I prefer mine because I can relate it to the Franchise Tag percents.
.
They all add their extensions after the 2018 season. Nobody gives Donald anything for 2017 or 2018, although they use different methods to move money around and he gets some of the money early.
.
I can see why Donald would not care to play 2017 for 1.8 million. He has already been paid the 3.4 million bonus booked to 2017. I imagine the Rams could try to get that back if he didn’t play in 2017.
.
I am trying to give Donald “some” money for 2017 and 2018. That is my incentive to get him to sign. Nobody else seems to be doing that.
.
Adding $20M/yr for 6yr allows me to structure money flow and guarantee in a convenient manner. That is why 6yrs is better. AgamemnonThat is why 6yrs is better.
The problem is, his big hang up apparently is the length of the deal. He wants to be back out on the market again, it looks like, when he is still in his prime. That means at one point he was apparently pushing for an opt-out clause after year 3. The Rams reportedly want 6 years and right now that’s one of the points of contention. Obviously, it’s in Donald’s interests to have a shorter deal, and the Rams interests to have a longer deal.
I think that is a red herring, because who believes the Rams will really do that. I can see how the Rams can have a huge offer on the table, but Donald would balk. He playing 2017 for almost nothing and once he come in, he is stuck playing this year for nothing. Yes, a shorter deal is in Donald’s interest, but he doesn’t have leverage for that. imo Brocker did, but that was a different situation. I believe that not getting anything more for 2017/18 is the real holdup, but that is just an opinion.
AgamemnonI think that is a red herring, because who believes the Rams will really do that.
If he’s holding out over that…then, it’s moot point whether the Rams are willing or not.
Donald’s agent is trying to break new ground and change how contracts are done, and AD is buying into it apparently.
It does the Rams no good to have him already under contract if they end up playing him only half a season each of those years. He is apparently willing to go the mile on this, which means that all that leverage is completely pointless.
I thought the real compromise was to offer a shorter deal. 4 years. I am fine with that myself.
…
That is a possible compromise, but I don’t think they 20m/yr on that. But maybe they would? Not coming in doesn’t really cost Donald. The Rams losing a valuable player for 8 games cost them more than Donald losing ~about a million dollars. imo
AgamemnonThat is a possible compromise, but I don’t think they 20m/yr on that. But maybe they would?
I think the market logic on this is simple–Suh got 19 M 2 years ago, so you have to surpass that in 2017. So yeah at least 20 M.
Receiver is a good analogy. Bryant, Jones, and Green all signed for around 14-15 M in 2015. In 2017, Antonio Brown signs for 17 M.
If nothing else, the player expects to get more than the last benchmark contract. So the team is forced to go, well if we don’t pay that another team will.
…
That is the market for a FA. Donald isn’t a FA, so it doesn’t strictly apply. imo
.
If I consider length of contract, I can go 20-20.5 million/yr. Maybe the other would go higher?
.
We are at about the same place we were with Saffold, a small but discrete difference. AgamemnonThat is the market for a FA. Donald isn’t a FA, so it doesn’t strictly apply. imo
.I honestly don’t think that’s relevant. It;s the deal that sets the benchmark. That’s why Suh’s name keeps coming up in terms of setting the benchmark, and it’s out there, not just among posters. After all only one team can sign a guy, and when it signs the guy, it answers the question—what does it take to sign that guy. Then a year or 2 passes and that’s what agents talk about when they refer to the market for top players at the position, and top players at the position go well if I don’t get a percentage more than THAT then I am going to balk.
There’s no asterisks which separate “free agent contracts” from “extensions.” 2 years later, a top elite DT has to sign for a certain percentage more than Suh.
Either way it will be interesting to see what happens.
…
I value Suh’s contract at 11%. Suh’s contract is an outlier. imo The most I will pay Donald is ~10%(the franchise tag for a DE = 10.08%) and length of contract affects that. A new contract and a contract extension are not the same thing unless you tear up the old contract.
.
We should know by the middle of the season. 😉 AgamemnonI value Suh’s contract at 11%. Suh’s contract is an outlier. imo The most I will pay Donald is ~10%(the franchise tag for a DE = 10.08%) and length of contract affects that.
I don;t think it;s any more an outlier than Carr’s 25 M is for qbs and Brown’s 17 M is for top WRs. Meanwhile 2 years ago in 2015 Wilson signed for 21 M and Jones for 15 M.
Not only is Donald better than Suh, he is just going to say, well if you’re not giving me Suh money plus, then, you;re lowballing. IMO he would be right.
Good discussion btw.
….
It is a good discussion. Suh getting overpaid is not a reason to overpay Donald. imo
.
I am fine with Carr’s numbers, etc. etc. they all fall in line.
.
Carr gets 12.9%. QB historically get 12.8% AgamemnonSuh getting overpaid is not a reason to overpay Donald.
I will part this discussion noting only this different vote from me: there’s no such thing as overpaid for the best players at a position. They get what the market allows and when they get it, it sets the terms for the next round. Is Carr “worth” more than Wilson? Well the market says you look at the last benchmarks and then contracts go up. That’s just the market IMO. If nothing else, Donald has absolutely no reason to accept the idea that he should get less than Suh–he just follows the logic of the situation and says “Suh was the top DT, it’s 2 years later, my money should be more.” Same as Antonio Brown talking about Julio Jone’s 2015 deal. So we just differ on this point.
We differ. I can let it go there. 😉
.
I have to add, Brown is 8.9%. WRs historically get 9.4%. WOW, Jones only got 7.6%. AgamemnonShould the Rams be doing a better job with Aaron Donald?https://t.co/sa9XdQtyo9
— Mike & Mike (@MikeAndMike) August 30, 2017
I would have go know what the Rams have offered Donald.
AgamemnonBonsignore: Hey Aaron Donald, the Rams aren’t budging, it’s time to get back to work
By Vincent Bonsignore | vbonsignore@scng.com | Daily News
PUBLISHED: August 30, 2017 at 12:32 pm | UPDATED: August 30, 2017 at 1:02 pmAaron Donald deserves to be the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.
So let’s just get that out of the way at the very top, lest anyone thinks sides are being taken in a contract holdout that has cost Donald all of training camp and preseason. And if he doesn’t report in the next day or so, it likely will mean sitting out at least the Rams’ season opener Sept. 10 against the Indianapolis Colts.
Repeat: Aaron Donald deserves to be the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.
Have we cleared that up?
Good.
Let’s make something else clear: It’s time for Donald to end his contract holdout and get back to Los Angeles.
Preferably by Friday. But absolutely in time for Donald to be available when the Rams open the season at the Coliseum.
He’s taken his stand far enough by holding out. Made his point loud and clear.
Up until now, we’ve all just sort of stood off to the side and nodded in agreement. Of course Donald needs to be compensated as one of the best players in the NFL. And if it means him sitting out some voluntary offseason practices and skipping the grind of training camp and not suiting up for some meaningless preseason games nobody pays much attention to, so be it.
Nothing was being lost, tangibly, other than time and preparation.
If it meant the Rams standing up and taking notice and ultimately doing right by Donald as a result, that’s something we can all get behind.
Thing is, the Rams got that point a long time ago.
And while they won’t say so publicly, there is a strong sense they’ve made it clear they are open to making Donald the highest-paid defensive player in the league relative to annual average salary while guaranteeing him a life-changing amount of money.
If you’re doing the math at home, that means Donald making $70 million in guaranteed money and, should he play out the length of the deal, pocket $118 million or so.
For point of reference, think somewhere above Ndamukong Suh’s six-year, $114.4 million deal that guarantees him $60 million, and Von Miller’s six-year, $114 million contract that guarantees him $70 million.
That’s an incredibly fair offer given that Donald has two years remaining on his original rookie deal and that, frankly, with the Rams controlling him for at least the next four years they aren’t obligated to do anything.
But they understand Donald has massively outplayed his rookie contract, and the $8.7 million he has coming to him over the next two seasons is almost an insult relative to his talent, his standing among his peers and the impact me makes for the team.
Which is why they are willing to tear that contract up and renegotiate a new one that reflects the Hall of Fame caliber player they were so fortunate to draft with the 13th pick in 2014.
What they won’t do – and frankly, shouldn’t – is appease all of Donald’s demands and desires.
Not with two years left on his deal and them having him under control through at least the 2020 season.
Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
If Donald wants all those boxes checked off he needs to return to work, play out his original deal, then go into free agency and pit all 32 teams against one another for his services.
If, at that point, someone is willing to give him the sun and the moon and Venus and Saturn and Jupiter, more power to him.
An open, free market can be a beautiful thing.
But he isn’t on the open market and, from a contractual standpoint, he most assuredly isn’t free.
The Rams have no reason to budge from their present offer as a result.
And they won’t.
They hold all the leverage.
Donald essentially is just spinning his wheels at this point.
He obviously believes he’s worth X Y and Z over Miller and Suh.
The Rams believe he is worth A B and C over them.
Donald and his people likely want contractual flexibility so that, if the league salary cap spikes in the next few years he can renegotiate a new deal that takes into account the higher cap sooner rather than later.
With the Rams re-doing Donald’s contract two years before they technically have to, you can bet their desire is to lock him up for the next six years.
Period.
No loopholes. No out clauses. No free pass in which Donald can come knocking again in three years seeking a new deal.
“That would be horrible if they gave into that,” a high-ranking team executive told me. “It would be a terrible precedent to set.”
Not that we all don’t understand Donald’s thinking, of course.
If any one of us were given a bat and a batter’s box to hit from we’d swing as hard as we could for the very same things.
But Donald hasn’t played long enough to reach that batter’s box. He might not even be in the on-deck circle yet, for that matter.
Given all the dynamics and circumstance, the stand he took was never really strong enough to get him quite as far as he wanted.
There was always a finish line, and the Rams controlled it.
They’ve been holding it out in front of him for awhile.
And it will make him the highest-paid defensive player in the NFL.
Donald apparently wants more. But he won’t get what he’s demanding by holding out. The Rams have no reason to budge.
Donald needs to either take the offer on the table or double down on himself by playing out the last two years of his contract to earn free agency.
Whichever option he chooses, he needs to get back to Los Angeles ASAP.
Because if it goes on much longer, he won’t just be hurting himself. There are 52 other players on the roster counting on him and a critically important season looming ahead.
It’s time for Donald to get back to work.
Agamemnon
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
