Samatha Bee on Trump and GOP racism.

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  • #48134
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    #48162
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    What movie is she showing clips from near the end of that?

    #48163
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    What movie is she showing clips from near the end of that?

    Do you mean the one with LBJ? I think that’s an HBO movie. Haven’t seen it yet.

    #48164
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    All the money and the guy with the swastika tattoo on his neck.

    The LBJ movie, I think, is based on a stage play that debuted at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival 4 or 5 years ago. It began, iirc, with LBJ being sworn in after JFK’s assassination, and covered the civil rights story. MLK was a character in the play, too. The LBJ stuff is a completely different movie.

    #48165
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    All the money and the guy with the swastika tattoo on his neck.

    The LBJ movie, I think, is based on a stage play that debuted at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival 4 or 5 years ago. It began, iirc, with LBJ being sworn in after JFK’s assassination, and covered the civil rights story. MLK was a character in the play, too. The LBJ stuff is a completely different movie.

    I think that’s “Breaking Bad,” but am not sure. I’m one of the few people around who has never seen it.

    #48166
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Forgetting the election for a moment…is there any
    hope for the diminishing or eradication of racism/jingoism/fundamental-superstition-ism ?

    I mean millions of amerikans are drenched from day-one
    in racism/jingoism/superstition. I mean, its not just in a few magazines
    laying around the house — they are drenched, inundated, surrounded and drowned in racism-jingoism-superstition.

    This is a common refrain from many of my clients:
    Q: How did you get involved in the Aryan Brotherhood?
    A: Oh, grand-daddy was in it, Daddy was in it, when i was eight years old
    i went to all the bar-b-ques and stuff….its just all Ive known. Its my family.

    How and why does ‘that’ happen?

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #48174
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Good questions, WV.

    Personally, I don’t think our focus should be so much on trying to change the way people view race — though that’s important — but instead on preventing its effects. Preventing the application of racist beliefs in society. And one way of doing this is to offer alternatives for people who believe they need to circle the wagons and “stay with their own kind.” Most important part of that, IMO, is economic.

    If we had a system that truly offered everyone — not just the richest 1%, 10% or 20% — a shot at achieving their fullest potential, then people have far less reason to feel others are trying to take away their jobs, their culture, what have you. And, I think it’s up to the left to offer this, which means breaking with the neoliberal/corporate/austerity “compromise” absolutely, irrevocably . . . . and offer a super-sized Denmark-like option instead.

    At least. As mentioned, I’d rather repeal and replace the entire thing, get rid of every ounce of capitalism and go with left-anarchist models instead. But the Danish mode is more doable near-term, so that’s what we should push for now. For now.

    Ironically, tragically — and this seems obvious in the EU/Brexit stuff — it’s the absence of a strong, committed, no-apologies left and leftist alternative that enables far-right appeals to white fears, xenophobia, racism, etc. etc. And that also sets up the counter-screaming from the right that they’re not going to accept accusations of racism and xenophobia anymore. It’s kind of a white backlash against the backlash against racism, etc. A counter-reformation of sorts.

    In short, we have to give them reasons to stop fearing the Other. Just scolding them won’t work — and I’ve been guilty of the latter when I get frustrated about things too much.

    #48175
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    As to the question regarding how these things transfer from generation to generation. It’s pretty much how things like religious preference transfer, too. A lot of people just “trust” their parents and don’t think they’d tell them something that was wrong — to believe in or do. Lots of studies also show that people will dig in even deeper when confronted with evidence that goes against their beliefs.

    These studies say this is more common with those on the right than the left — but it’s something that impacts a lot of people. They dig in. They’re just more likely to believe their own parents, or their ministers, or their neighbors, than any “ivory tower egg-head.” Though I’m sure they’re using different terms for that these days.

    Sadly, changing these attitudes is just going to take time, and we’ll have to move through the generations a bit longer. It’s so much a part of our American history, as you’ve noted . . . and even with people like Lincoln, who fit the classic definition of “racist,” at least until his last two years or so. And he was one of the good guys in his day, being an anti-slavery advocate for his entire adult life.

    Tragedy, thy name is America.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #48178
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Good questions, WV.

    Personally, I don’t think our focus should be so much on trying to change the way people view race — though that’s important — but instead on preventing its effects. Preventing the application of racist beliefs in society…

    ===============

    Yeah, i just wonder what ‘prevention’ would look like. Ya know.

    It would require nurturing ‘critical thinking’. How does a society do that?

    It would require meeting citizens basic needs so that have time/energy/safety in order to have the luxury of ‘thinking critically’. How does a society accomplish that?

    …i suppose amerika has made a ton of progress with race/jingoism/superstition.
    But with the pace of corporate-destruction increasing, and the pace of environmental degradation increasing….how much more time do we have to be so…ignorant?

    w
    v

    #48180
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Good questions, WV.

    Personally, I don’t think our focus should be so much on trying to change the way people view race — though that’s important — but instead on preventing its effects. Preventing the application of racist beliefs in society…

    ===============

    Yeah, i just wonder what ‘prevention’ would look like. Ya know.

    It would require nurturing ‘critical thinking’. How does a society do that?

    It would require meeting citizens basic needs so that have time/energy/safety in order to have the luxury of ‘thinking critically’. How does a society accomplish that?

    …i suppose amerika has made a ton of progress with race/jingoism/superstition.
    But with the pace of corporate-destruction increasing, and the pace of environmental degradation increasing….how much more time do we have to be so…ignorant?

    w
    v

    I think you guys are talking about 2 different things. BT didn’t mean preventing racist thinking. I think he meant preventing racist policies and criminal actions based on racism.

    There’s not much you can do about hardcore bigots (though there are stories from that world of people going through conversions to more enlightened views).

    But the (far more common) ordinary, everyday, silent, doesn’t know it’s racism type racism can be edged into better awareness.

    So far the only thing holding that back is the damm italians.

    #48181
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Yeah, i just wonder what ‘prevention’ would look like. Ya know.

    It would require nurturing ‘critical thinking’. How does a society do that?

    It would require meeting citizens basic needs so that have time/energy/safety in order to have the luxury of ‘thinking critically’. How does a society accomplish that?

    …i suppose amerika has made a ton of progress with race/jingoism/superstition.
    But with the pace of corporate-destruction increasing, and the pace of environmental degradation increasing….how much more time do we have to be so…ignorant?

    w
    v

    That leisure time is incredibly important. Which is yet one more reason why capitalism should die. It ensures that leisure time for a tiny portion of humanity, while forcing the majority to remain locked in dead-end jobs they can’t afford to lose — but often do. It forces all too many people to work more than one job, because the pay is so low, as they struggle against strong headwinds that never go away. And I’ve felt those strong headwinds myself, for a good portion of my young adulthood.

    It’s no fun. And it’s damn hard to spend time on “critical thinking” if that’s how one comes into this world. If that’s all one knows. I was very lucky I was born into a family with highly educated parents, from families with highly educated parents going back several generations. So I had a foundation for it. But most people don’t. And our education system, as you’ve written about before, teaches the opposite. It teaches mass conformity and docility and acquiescence to authority and tries to get us to be good little consumers of capitalist crap.

    What if we had a society whose intention was more and more knowledge, more and more (highly diverse) cultural arts, more and more science, discovery — an Atlantis of sorts? What if no one cared about profits, money, how much stuff we could buy . . . but focused all on how much we could learn instead — about the world, history, the arts, the sciences, ourselves? What if this pursuit of knowledge and culture were a goal in and of itself, instead of something only rich people could pursue? What if it were all “free” to everyone, and the norm, naturalized, a part of our every day lives?

    It’s actually doable and I’ve mapped that out. All it takes is agreement on a new fiction, one that benefits all of us, instead of the current fiction that destroys most of us and the world.

    #48182
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    BT didn’t mean preventing racist thinking. I think he meant preventing racist policies and criminal actions based on racism.

    Correct. That’s what I meant. But I think WV sees that too. I think he’s adding things on top of that, to open the conversation more.

    It’s a good one.

    WV is kind of like a much nicer, friendlier, much funnier version of Socrates. I don’t think he would have driven the Athenian authorities crazy, like the original. He’s a different sort of gadfly. I try the Socratic method as well but am usually far less successful. Unlike WV, I think the Athenians would have gotten pretty tired of my questioning, and it may have gone the same route down Hemlock road.

    ;>)

    #48183
    bnw
    Blocked

    All the money and the guy with the swastika tattoo on his neck.

    The LBJ movie, I think, is based on a stage play that debuted at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival 4 or 5 years ago. It began, iirc, with LBJ being sworn in after JFK’s assassination, and covered the civil rights story. MLK was a character in the play, too. The LBJ stuff is a completely different movie.

    I think that’s “Breaking Bad,” but am not sure. I’m one of the few people around who has never seen it.

    Ah Billy something else we have in common.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48184
    bnw
    Blocked

    Forgetting the election for a moment…is there any
    hope for the diminishing or eradication of racism/jingoism/fundamental-superstition-ism ?

    I mean millions of amerikans are drenched from day-one
    in racism/jingoism/superstition. I mean, its not just in a few magazines
    laying around the house — they are drenched, inundated, surrounded and drowned in racism-jingoism-superstition.

    This is a common refrain from many of my clients:
    Q: How did you get involved in the Aryan Brotherhood?
    A: Oh, grand-daddy was in it, Daddy was in it, when i was eight years old
    i went to all the bar-b-ques and stuff….its just all Ive known. Its my family.

    How and why does ‘that’ happen?

    w
    v

    Look on the bright side. They know who their daddy is.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48300
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Good questions, WV.

    Personally, I don’t think our focus should be so much on trying to change the way people view race — though that’s important — but instead on preventing its effects. Preventing the application of racist beliefs in society. And one way of doing this is to offer alternatives for people who believe they need to circle the wagons and “stay with their own kind.” Most important part of that, IMO, is economic.

    If we had a system that truly offered everyone — not just the richest 1%, 10% or 20% — a shot at achieving their fullest potential, then people have far less reason to feel others are trying to take away their jobs, their culture, what have you. And, I think it’s up to the left to offer this, which means breaking with the neoliberal/corporate/austerity “compromise” absolutely, irrevocably . . . . and offer a super-sized Denmark-like option instead.

    At least. As mentioned, I’d rather repeal and replace the entire thing, get rid of every ounce of capitalism and go with left-anarchist models instead. But the Danish mode is more doable near-term, so that’s what we should push for now. For now.

    Ironically, tragically — and this seems obvious in the EU/Brexit stuff — it’s the absence of a strong, committed, no-apologies left and leftist alternative that enables far-right appeals to white fears, xenophobia, racism, etc. etc. And that also sets up the counter-screaming from the right that they’re not going to accept accusations of racism and xenophobia anymore. It’s kind of a white backlash against the backlash against racism, etc. A counter-reformation of sorts.

    In short, we have to give them reasons to stop fearing the Other. Just scolding them won’t work — and I’ve been guilty of the latter when I get frustrated about things too much.

    What’s striking is that the reason Brexit succeeded was in large part due to the failure of broken promises of the neoliberal economics of British liberals which allowed British conservatives to swerve hard right and use outright falsehoods and rampant xenophobia in conjunction with the truths about the failures of neoliberal economics and the unresolved issues surrounding the EU’s bloated bureaucracy (which are massive problems).

    What’s also striking is how parallel our problems are and how successful the ads are likely to be once the conventions are over.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

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