Quinn, Britt join protest

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle Quinn, Britt join protest

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 32 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #52748
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000701839/article/antoine-bethea-among-players-to-join-colin-kaepernicks-protest

    “…Bethea and Harold stood for the anthem, but each raised a fist, as did Rams defensive end Robert Quinn and wide receiver Kenny Britt.

    As for joining his teammates and other players and coaches from around the league who made varied gestures during the playing of the national anthem this past weekend, Bethea said, “I did it to keep the conversation going. A lot more guys in the league want to do it but they are afraid. You see (Broncos linebacker) Brandon Marshall already lost endorsements.“…
    =======

    w
    v

    #52756
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Next week I hope the entire team is sitting down and when the media asks them why they’re protesting the National Anthem they will respond:

    National Anthem? Oh no…we’re protesting Jeff Fisher.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #52771
    bnw
    Blocked

    Next week I hope the entire team is sitting down and when the media asks them why they’re protesting the National Anthem they will respond:

    National Anthem? Oh no…we’re protesting Jeff Fisher.

    Rams fans should be protesting the players crappy performance.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #52773
    — X —
    Participant

    Sometimes I think these guys don’t even know what they’re protesting. Just kinda going with whatever someone else is doing because it will elevate them to the class of rebel. I don’t know how much of this discussion is tolerated here, so I’ll just say that these numbnuts have no idea what oppression is. Women who get stoned to death for dating someone they think is cute? That’s oppression. Women prohibited from showing their faces? That’s oppression. Children brainwashed into martyring themselves? That’s oppression. African Americans led by an African American President? That’s not oppression. The Media tricking these guys into believing that there’s oppression? That’s the real crime.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #52783
    bnw
    Blocked

    Sometimes I think these guys don’t even know what they’re protesting. Just kinda going with whatever someone else is doing because it will elevate them to the class of rebel. I don’t know how much of this discussion is tolerated here, so I’ll just say that these numbnuts have no idea what oppression is. Women who get stoned to death for dating someone they think is cute? That’s oppression. Women prohibited from showing their faces? That’s oppression. Children brainwashed into martyring themselves? That’s oppression. African Americans led by an African American President? That’s not oppression. The Media tricking these guys into believing that there’s oppression? That’s the real crime.

    Well said sir. BTW “numbnuts” is a personal favorite term of mine.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #52799
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Sometimes I think these guys don’t even know what they’re protesting. Just kinda going with whatever someone else is doing because it will elevate them to the class of rebel. I don’t know how much of this discussion is tolerated here, so I’ll just say that these numbnuts have no idea what oppression is. Women who get stoned to death for dating someone they think is cute? That’s oppression. Women prohibited from showing their faces? That’s oppression. Children brainwashed into martyring themselves? That’s oppression. African Americans led by an African American President? That’s not oppression. The Media tricking these guys into believing that there’s oppression? That’s the real crime.

    —————

    Well, I think i understand where you are coming from X,
    but I disagree in general.

    I mean, you can always find something ‘worse’ to point to, and then say “Oppression? Why hundreds of years ago, Native peoples were genocided by the millions, so what do these young folks know about oppression?” Or, “Oppression? why Idi Amin used to eat dissenters for lunch, what do these people know about oppression?”

    You can always find ugier examples of oppression. But ya know, in this country, ya protest and work for justice wherever you want. You pick an issue that means somethin to ya, and you work for justice. So, i applaud anybody who picks any social-justice-cause and works for it.

    And yes, a lot of times, young people dont really understand issues as well as people who have studied issues longer. But sometimes they know exactly what they are doing. I dunno what Britt and Quinn know or dont know.

    The other board is probly better if yall wanna go into this. Though on this board we can usually handle stuff on either board without getting too ‘heated’. I mean, itz sports and itz politix both.

    Always always good to see the X-man on either board.

    What the hell happened in San Fran, btw? What ‘was’ that?

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #52802
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Sometimes I think these guys don’t even know what they’re protesting. Just kinda going with whatever someone else is doing because it will elevate them to the class of rebel. I don’t know how much of this discussion is tolerated here, so I’ll just say that these numbnuts have no idea what oppression is. Women who get stoned to death for dating someone they think is cute? That’s oppression. Women prohibited from showing their faces? That’s oppression. Children brainwashed into martyring themselves? That’s oppression. African Americans led by an African American President? That’s not oppression. The Media tricking these guys into believing that there’s oppression? That’s the real crime.

    You can’t judge their motives.

    And wv is right, imo, that just because something else is worse, that doesn’t invalidate one’s complaint.

    The basic complaint is that there is not justice and equality for all in this country. Statistically, blacks get rougher treatment than other groups (especially whites) in all facets of life, but particularly in the criminal justice system where we continue to see examples of non-threatening black men being killed by excessive police force with no admission that this is a problem. But it goes beyond that into more shakedowns, arrests, harsher sentencing, and all the rest of it. While we say “Never Forget” what we suffered on 9/11, we are always telling black people to “get over it” when it comes to nearly four hundred years of injustice.

    #52806
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Although I don’t think that form of protest is the best way to help the cause, I agree with every word wv and Zooey said. Well said, gentlemen.

    #52812
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    and also the result is people are talking about it which could be good. just hope the discussion results in positive changes rather than negative ones.

    #52840
    — X —
    Participant

    You can’t judge their motives.

    And wv is right, imo, that just because something else is worse, that doesn’t invalidate one’s complaint.

    The basic complaint is that there is not justice and equality for all in this country. Statistically, blacks get rougher treatment than other groups (especially whites) in all facets of life, but particularly in the criminal justice system where we continue to see examples of non-threatening black men being killed by excessive police force with no admission that this is a problem. But it goes beyond that into more shakedowns, arrests, harsher sentencing, and all the rest of it. While we say “Never Forget” what we suffered on 9/11, we are always telling black people to “get over it” when it comes to nearly four hundred years of injustice.

    Good to see you, Zooey.

    Now. I’m not trying to invalidate their complaint though. When I point out the things I did, I’m only making the very legitimate comparison to what real oppression looks like. And it’s happening tonight. Not 200 years ago.

    I’m not well versed on the statistics, but I have seen them presented in a number of different ways, and I’ve seen vast differences in what are being presented as the true, factual statistics relative to crime. IMO, non-violent criminal offenders are oppressed no matter what color their skin may be. That’s an entirely different discussion. There are, however, some reasons behind some of the biased treatment black men get on the streets. For example. As a teenager, my friends and I were always always always causing trouble and getting detained and sometimes arrested. Always. As a result, in my small part of the world, we were profiled and harassed more than other groups of kids in the city, and our behavior eventually even began to affect other kids who had done nothing wrong. This was the result of our own doing, and I have no problem admitting it today.

    Now I wonder how I could be characterized if I suggest that this behavior and disregard for authority that I exhibited, if applied universally, should (and does) yield the same results across all races, creeds, and ethnicities? Would I be considered racist or a bigot if I suggested there be a little accountability? How about the black community acknowledge that some of the profiling is a direct result of the staggering amount of violent crimes committed BY (and in) the black community? Maybe protest that too. Or would that be too laborious a task due to the amount of accountability and honesty it requires on behalf of these entitled millionaire black athletes – most of whom do absolutely nothing to try and affect real change with their time or money.

    Now while I’ve never told any black man to “get over it”, I have had these kinds of honest discussions with them on numerous occasions. Particularly in Charleston where I worked for the last year. My job gave me that kind of exposure and opportunity to have deep discussions with Pastors, Government officials, and blue collar working men alike. You’d think the naive right-wing-hate-speak-fueled opinions and views I just presented here would have been met with scorn, anger, and ridicule, but they weren’t. Many – MANY – of them agreed with me, but there were various counterpoints offered that I also agreed with. They were good dialogues and I learned a lot. I could have those discussions without fear of being called a racist or being ignorant of history if I presented my views in an inquisitive manner and with an attitude of sensitivity and love.

    Also, there is literally nobody left alive that was involved in the atrocities of slavery, and yet I’m somehow required to be shameful of that era and forever indebted to the black man. Yeah, no. I owe nobody anything. My ancestors are Irish anyway. I can only do my part to end the hate, but that’s not my job alone either. Racism and oppression is inflicted on, and suffered by, all races. Police brutality and harassment, even if disproportionately distributed to blacks (for reasons I touched upon), is also suffered by all races. By and large, oppression is a problem that’s perpetuated by the media in my opinion. You can’t claim, that as a race, you’re being held back when the highest position in the Northern Hemisphere is currently held by a black man who was voted in by all races. And he, as an individual, made the choices he made to put himself IN that house. That means it’s possible for anyone who makes similar life choices. Now if you wanna talk about how difficult it is for young black men to ascend to that position due to their impoverished upbringing or the social disadvantages that left them with no choices other than crime to survive, then we can do that too. But be prepared to talk about illegitimacy statistics and the erosion of family values that tie directly into that lot in life.

    Or football. We can also talk about football.

    GO RAMS and stuff.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #52842
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Hey, X, I love reading your posts. I wish you were here more often.

    That was a great post, and I want to respond to it, but I have to wait until tomorrow cuz it’s time to go to bed.

    I don’t know about the location of this discussion. I will leave that to the mods. I have always wanted a single board, but I am a minority view on that, and I get why people believe separate boards are healthier for the community. But wherever this goes, I will follow. Tomorrow.

    #52843
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    don’t know about the location of this discussion. I will leave that to the mods.

    That’s an open question. It started here for legit “all aspects of football are discussable” reasons. I suppose if it gets abrasively pro/con and devotedly partisan it probably belongs on the other forum…but so far, it’s just discussion.

    #52847
    — X —
    Participant

    Hey, X, I love reading your posts. I wish you were here more often.

    That was a great post, and I want to respond to it, but I have to wait until tomorrow cuz it’s time to go to bed.

    I don’t know about the location of this discussion. I will leave that to the mods. I have always wanted a single board, but I am a minority view on that, and I get why people believe separate boards are healthier for the community. But wherever this goes, I will follow. Tomorrow.

    Looking forward to it.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #52849
    — X —
    Participant

    What the hell happened in San Fran, btw? What ‘was’ that?

    w
    v

    Told you. It’s the Vinovich Equinox.
    102 penalty yards & an ejection for the visitors.
    10 penalty yards and a shut-out for the home team.

    That, and the O-line couldn’t run block to save its life.
    And we’re still yet to solve the QB conundrum.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #52851
    Avatar photoEternal Ramnation
    Participant

    #53009
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Good to see you, Zooey.

    Now. I’m not trying to invalidate their complaint though. When I point out the things I did, I’m only making the very legitimate comparison to what real oppression looks like. And it’s happening tonight. Not 200 years ago….

    GO RAMS and stuff.

    The biggest problem with this nationwide discussion is that it has taken so many tangents that I’m not sure we are getting anywhere.

    Here are some of the things that we are talking about that really have nothing to do with the issue Kaepernick (and Black Lives Matter) raised:

      Whether a multi-millionaire celebrity has any right to say anything about oppression when he lives on Easy Street.

      The appropriateness of the form of protest.

      Disrespect for the sacrifice of military people.

      Black-on-black crime

      The predominance of “good” policeman versus “bad apples.”

      How blacks are better off now than they used to be.

    The first thing I want to say is that I appreciate what Kaepernick is doing. I don’t think that protesting injustice requires any kind of credential beyond a conscience. If we go around making up criteria for who has a right to speak out, and who doesn’t, well…pretty much everybody just has to shut up, right? The issue he is protesting is real, and to attack Kaepernick because he’s rich, or disrespects the military, or ignores progress, or ignores good cops, or anything else…is just a way of trying to change the subject. I have challenged several people who object to his form of protest to offer an alternative, and nobody has ever done so. The fact that the conversation is still going on more than 3 weeks after his original protest proves to me that he chose an effective method of starting a national conversation. Unfortunately, as I said, I think the conversation has gone in all kinds of directions, but nobody can control a discussion like this. It goes where it goes. I will add that Kaepernick, and the other players who have joined him, do so at personal and financial risk.

    The second thing I want to say is that I don’t think anybody is telling you to feel guilty about slavery, or about anything. BLM isn’t about slavery. I don’t even know how that came into the conversation. It will come up once in a while, just as the holocaust will get mentioned whenever anti-semitic issues are discussed, but slavery is not what blacks are complaining about generally speaking. I don’t think anything you said is prejudiced, and I don’t think you have to feel like anybody expects an apology from you. I was surprised to even see you take a bit of a defensive posture in your post, because what you said sounds reasonable on all levels.

    Here is what I think you are missing, maybe: blacks have a legitimate complaint about systemic racism. This is going to take me a while, but the first thing I want to draw attention to is your comment that there is significant black-on-black crime, and that blacks ought to own up to that, and protest that. Well, they do. It doesn’t make the news, and nobody talks about it, but there are neighborhood forces working on that. (It’s like the complaint that Muslims ought to come out and speak out against terrorism. Well, they do. Do people not remember the enormous vigil in Tehran after the 9/11 attacks? TEHRAN!). But here is the thing: I don’t think it is accurate to even call it black-on-black crime. That is part of the problem in this country, imo. It has nothing to do with “black.” It has everything to do with poverty. It is Poor-on-Poor crime. That’s what it is. You don’t find middle class blacks shooting each other. Meanwhile, you WILL find poor white people shooting each other, but we don’t call it white-on-white crime. We call it crime. But the perception created by our language is that blacks have a crime problem. They don’t, though. Poor people have a crime problem. And the way we talk about this affects the way people think about this which, in turn, affects what we DO about it. But it isn’t a “black” problem. Because, across the board, when blacks are compared to whites with the same net worth, the outcomes are the same. The same divorce rates, the same crime rates, the same graduation rates, the same drop out rates…the same outcomes. Blacks with high net worth have the same outcomes as whites with high net worth. Blacks with middle net worth have the same outcomes as whites of middle net worth. Poor blacks have the same outcomes and poor whites. Net worth is what determines these outcomes, and that shouldn’t surprise anybody.

    But this country throughout its history, long after abolition, continues to talk about and perceive blacks differently than whites. And that makes RACE the issue, rather than class. (Which has the effect, btw, of dividing the lower class and keeping it from uniting against policies that screw them over, and that’s pretty convenient for the ruling class, but that’s another digression from the point). There are historical reasons why this is so (and the video Eternal Ram posted here explains why), but basically we are the first society that justified slavery on the basis of race. Earlier examples of slavery justified it on a power basis: “We conquered you, and now you are slaves.” And when that power ended, slavery ended, and the people assimilated into society. It was that way in the early settlement of the US, too. It wasn’t until the declaration of independence said, “All men are created equal” that a different rationale for slavery had to be considered. So in the US, the position was taken that blacks aren’t “quite” men. They aren’t entitled to these protections because they are innately inferior. Then when slavery was abolished…the rationale stayed behind. Generations of poor whites didn’t stop thinking that they were better than poor blacks just because slavery went away. That mindset is still pervasive in this country. And it manifests along a spectrum. At one end, we have a few lunatics in white sheets, and at the other, people who “get it.” Along that spectrum are a wide variety of misgivings, and suspicions, and wariness.

    So here is how that manifests. Blacks are more likely to be asked for ID when writing a check. They are watched with more suspicion when they enter a store. They get pulled over by police more often, searched more often, arrested more often, and prosecuted more often. And their sentences are harsher than what whites receive for comparable crimes. Black people are STILL – today! – 60% more likely to be turned down for a home loan than white people with the same income. A few Affirmative Action laws have not changed the black experience much. Black people live in this reality every day.

    Whites, meanwhile, look at a few examples of blacks hitting the big time, or whites being oppressed (or discriminated against), and conclude that blacks are whining. But, you know, Obama being president proves nothing. One black president in our history? (Besides which…why is he “black?” His mother was white, and his father and mother split and divorced before Barack was cognizant, and he met his father only once. – His father was a graduate student at Harvard, btw. He was brought up in a white family, attended catholic schools and prep schools by academics who lived with privileges. Why is 50% black considered Black? And what in his personal history has any connection to poor black people in this country who are apparently supposed to be able to make it because HE did?).

    I dunno. We could go back and forth with the statistics you say show contradictory things, but the bottom line is that blacks PERCEIVE social injustice. They see unarmed black people killed, and no cop ever gets punished. That’s what they see and experience.

    One last thing. We could do a better job training cops. I saw a comparison somewhere between the US training and Norway’s training of cops, and Norway’s training was much longer, and had better outcomes.

    If there is ONE thing I would like to see come out of this, it would be a conversation about how to improve police training. Surely we can use virtual reality or something to teach cops to look for “tells” in behavior instead of appearance. Surely we can do a better job policing our cities and neighborhoods, and a better job with equitable sentencing.

    #53016
    — X —
    Participant

    Good stuff, Zooey. I appreciate you putting that kind of effort into expanding on your initial thoughts in this thread. You make some good points that I’d be foolish to debate, because I don’t have a need to pick apart minutiae in my quest to be ‘right’. This is just, to me, good dialogue. And I do apologize for straying from the topic at hand to communicate some of the other defenses I listed. Regarding slavery and the expectation for white guilt, that was due to a few different things I had read and heard on the radio where certain groups have decided that reparations aren’t good enough and may never BE good enough. And there are a number of people who think the United States will never atone for that era. That said, I do agree about systemic racism in this Country as you laid it out. The only reason I brought up the need for more vocal opposition to “black on black” crime is because the coverage of it is alarmingly disproportionate to the vocal opposition to police on blacks crime. Which, if statistics are right, isn’t as high as it’s being portrayed. But like you, I digress.

    I agree with you that Kaepernick has a right to do what he’s doing. I don’t think I even weighed in on that other than to say that all the people who are joining him are only doing so for reasons of vanity. IMO. If they were that strongly opposed to whatever it is he’s opposed to, they would have protested sooner. But maybe it’s just a need for a leader in that regard before someone can summon the courage to join. That said, wearing socks with pigs portrayed as cops is over the line and has no place in the National Football League. It’s hellaciously disrespectful to the thousands of good cops who would sacrifice their own lives to save his. So while he does have a Constitutional right to protest (and I support that), it doesn’t give him carte blache.

    Finally, I very much appreciate how you illustrated that race-on-race crime can be boiled down to, I guess, class-on-class crime. It makes sense, and I haven’t looked at it like that before. You’re right. You and Dabo Swinney gave me a few things to think about today. If you haven’t heard Dabo’s presser about Kaepernick (and a few other topics), he also gave another way for America to veer way from their angry racism-centric view of our Country’s problems. While I don’t agree with everything he said, because I don’t share his particular religious beliefs, he does make a good point. To wit:

    “There’s a lot of good police officers. There’s thousands of perfect traffic stops. Lot of good men. Lot of good women. But those don’t get the stories. There’s some criminals that wear badges. Guess what? There’s some criminals that work in the media. There’s some criminals that are football coaches. There’s some criminals that are politicians. There are criminals that work in churches. It’s so easy to say we have a race problem, but we got a sin problem. It’s just my opinion. That’s Dabo’s opinion.”

    “Now, does that mean that there’s not still problems? Yes. Where there’s people, whether they’re black, green, yellow, orange or white, there is going to be sin, greed, hate, jealousy, deceitfulness. There’s going to be that. That’s always going to be there. But attitude, work ethic, love, respect for others, that doesn’t know any color.”

    You can substitute the word ‘sin’ in his speech with any number of words that would adequately describe our problems. Hate, Economic, mental illness, leadership, education, etc. So all-in-all, it’s a good sign that there are people who don’t take such a narrow view on things. Because, clearly, not everybody in the world is racist and not all of their actions or thoughts can be drilled down to racism.

    Again, thanks for responding. You’re clearly a good teacher.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by -- X --.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #53017
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    zooey said:

    They get pulled over by police more often, searched more often, arrested more often, and prosecuted more often. And their sentences are harsher than what whites receive for comparable crimes.

    Northeastern University just did a study on racial profiling by the Vermont State Police. As you would expect, they found that black motorists were indeed stopped and searched more often than whites. Five times more often, in fact.

    However, white motorists that were stopped and searched were more likely to have contraband compared to non-white motorists that were stopped and searched.

    As usual perception has nothing to do with reality.

    Racial profiling will become an effective tool for crime prevention as soon as law enforcement starts targeting white people.

    http://digital.vpr.net/post/study-finds-racial-disparities-vermont-state-police-traffic-stops#stream/0

    #53019
    — X —
    Participant

    As usual perception has nothing to do with reality.

    Ain’t that the truth. Wanna hear something funny? Well, maybe not funny – but it’s kinda ironic. I drive a white Mazda CX7 with black-out tint on all windows and a light tint on the entire windshield. I also have 22″ chrome & brushed aluminum rims and a killer sound system – with which I bump the bass quite a bit. Would you like to know how many times I’ve been pulled over in that car for either no apparent reason, or very very minor traffic offenses? In the past year, 7 times. Know how many tickets I’ve gotten? One. Apparently I was in a subdivision that had a noise ordinance.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #53020
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    As usual perception has nothing to do with reality.

    Ain’t that the truth. Wanna hear something funny? Well, maybe not funny – but it’s kinda ironic. I drive a white Mazda CX7 with black-out tint on all windows and a light tint on the entire windshield. I also have 22″ chrome & brushed aluminum rims and a killer sound system – with which I bump the bass quite a bit. Would you like to know how many times I’ve been pulled over in that car for either no apparent reason, or very very minor traffic offenses? In the past year, 7 times. Know how many tickets I’ve gotten? One. Apparently I was in a subdivision that had a noise ordinance.

    I’m glad you’re hanging out here, X. I hope you stick around.

    What kind of music were you playing on that killer sound system? I’m thinking the reason you were pulled over is that the cops didn’t appreciate you blasting One Direction at 10,000 decibels…

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #53024
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Thanks, X.

    I enjoyed the conversation. Some of those things I wrote were in direct response to things you said, but not all of it. I was addressing the “nationwide” conversation there, too, and I saw the exchange as a conversation, not a debate.

    And I’m glad you appreciated the poor-on-poor crime perspective. If there is one thing I wish would get discussed in all of this, it is that aspect of it. Because I think that as long as our country looks at these problems through the lens of Race, it’s going to ask the wrong questions, and get the wrong answers. And I truly believe that the vast majority of Americans deplore what is happening in impoverished urban settings, and wish it would get better. White people don’t WANT blacks to live like that. But they fail to understand what is happening. I think it is something like 86% of white people in this country live in communities where blacks are less than 1% of the population. So what do they know about the black experience?

    P.S. FWIW, I winced at Kaepernick’s socks myself because I saw it as an insulting, tactical mistake. I read somewhere that he says he has three relatives who are police officers, and he honors all the good officers etc. etc., but he should have known most people wouldn’t get passed the photo of his socks. Anyway. Whatever.

    #53025
    — X —
    Participant

    I’m glad you’re hanging out here, X. I hope you stick around.

    What kind of music were you playing on that killer sound system? I’m thinking the reason you were pulled over is that the cops didn’t appreciate you blasting One Direction at 10,000 decibels…

    One Direction? Why I oughta….

    Oftentimes it’s either Eminen, Yelawolf and Beastie Boys, or Metallica and Rage Against the Machine.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #53027
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Just had a thought.

    Maybe it should have been Poor Lives Matter.

    I bet that would focus the national discussion more closely on the issues that affect black lives, and therefore probably be a wider, straighter road to getting some things changed that would make a difference. Instead we got all the racially loaded baggage and side issues clouding what ought to be an important conversation.

    #53028
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Just had a thought.

    Maybe it should have been Poor Lives Matter.

    Because it has to do with being black.

    The issue is police tending to be more violent in relation to black men (and statistics back this), including especially unarmed black men, and the victims of that aren’t all poor. You’re more likely to be confronted by the police in dangerous ways if you’re a middle class black than if you’re a poor white. Race is the issue.

    The term “black lives matter” offends me in no way shape or form. I’ve always agreed with the principles behind that protest, going back to when I was 13 or 14 years old.

    .

    #53029
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Just had a thought.

    Maybe it should have been Poor Lives Matter.

    Because it has to do with being black.

    The issue is police tending to be more violent in relation to black men (and statistics back this), including especially unarmed black men, and the victims of that aren’t all poor. You’re more likely to be confronted by the police in dangerous ways if you’re a middle class black than if you’re a poor white. Race is the issue.

    The term “black lives matter” offends me in no way shape or form. I’ve always agreed with the principles behind that protest, going back to when I was 13 or 14 years old.

    .

    Yeah, I know.

    I just wish we would do something about poverty because that would relieve a whole host of problems, and make lives better.

    #53030
    — X —
    Participant

    I just wish we would do something about poverty because that would relieve a whole host of problems, and make lives better.

    It’s probably safe to assume that nobody likes Trump here, but if he can actually delivery on his promise to bring big corporations back into the U.S., and even out the trade deficit, then that would be a helluva start.

    I’ll just see myself out now.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #53031
    bnw
    Blocked

    You’re more likely to be confronted by the police in dangerous ways if you’re a middle class black than if you’re a poor white.

    I don’t believe that. Just don’t. In my experience when stopped by the police it is “Yes sir, No sir” or “Yes officer, No officer” etc. I don’t have attitude and don’t do any passive aggressive crap either. From what I’ve seen people that get the stick are those that have attitude and don’t comply immediately and race doesn’t matter. Some people seem to think the police are robots who have to take their crap, a belief which is so naive and a recipe to get a whoopin.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53034
    bnw
    Blocked

    I just wish we would do something about poverty because that would relieve a whole host of problems, and make lives better.

    It’s probably safe to assume that nobody likes Trump here, but if he can actually delivery on his promise to bring big corporations back into the U.S., and even out the trade deficit, then that would be a helluva start.

    I’ll just see myself out now.

    As always do not assume. I wholeheartedly support Donald J. Trump for president!

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #53101
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I agree with everything Zooey wrote.

    The racial disparities in the criminal justice system are too stark and clear to deny, really. If you are not familiar with the stats, prepare yourself for some startling numbers.

    I mean, they show an appalling race/poverty issue. The stats just go on and on and on. Arrests, convictions, sentencing, probation, you name it…whatever part of the system you look at you get….well, see below :

    “….Many of the factors contributing to this inequality can be attributed to the system instead of to different behavior between blacks and whites.
    Nothing illustrates the difference between justice for the races than the war on drugs. Whites and blacks use drugs at roughly the same rate – there isn’t a statistically significant difference, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Black people, however, are arrested for drug use at a much higher rate. At the disparities’ peak in the late 1980s and early 1990s, blacks were five times more likely to be arrested for drugs than whites were…..”
    —–
    “…according to research from The Sentencing Project. The ACLU also found authorization to seek the death penalty was more likely when there was at least one white victim in the case…”…
    —–
    “…SWAT teams are most often deployed for drug searches, an arrest category that targets people of color…”
    ——
    “…In many U.S. counties, Ferguson included, police officers serving the citizens are mostly white, while residents of the county are mostly people of color, according to The Washington Post…”

    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/12/11/no-justice-is-not-colorblind
    =======

    “…Police are three times as likely to search the cars of stopped black drivers than stopped white drivers, as the chart below, based on data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, illustrates. Nationally, black drivers are also more likely to be pulled over and less likely to receive a reason for being stopped. In one Rhode Island study, black drivers were stopped more even though they were less likely to receive a citation…”
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/08/racial_disparities_in_the_criminal_justice_system_eight_charts_illustrating.html
    ————–

    “…A 2014 study in New York City showed that blacks were more likely than whites or nonblack minorities to be in jail while they await trial, even after controlling for the seriousness of charges and prior record. Other research suggests that this disparity is often due to the fact that black defendants cannot afford to pay bail. The temporary incarceration stigmatizes the defendant, disrupts family life and employment, and makes it harder for the defendant to prepare a defense. In the chart below, “jail” refers to defendants who were offered bail but could not post it; “remanded” refers to defendants who were not given the option of posting bail…”
    ————

    d”…The same study in New York found that black defendants are more likely to be offered plea deals that include prison time than whites or nonblack minorities. Even after controlling for many factors, including the seriousness of charges and prior record, blacks were 13 percent more likely than whites to be offered such deals..”
    ——–

    “…Researchers found that North Carolina prosecutors were excluding black people from juries in capital cases at twice the rate of other jurors, even when controlling for legitimate justifications for striking jurors, such as employment status or reservations about the death penalty. Other studies have shown that excluding black people from juries can influence deliberations and verdicts. For example, black defendants in capital cases with white victims are less likely to receive a death sentence if there is a black juror….”
    ———-
    “…2012 working paper found “robust evidence” that black male federal defendants were given longer sentences than comparable whites. Black men’s sentences were, on average, 10 percent longer than those of their white peers. This is partly explained by the fact that prosecutors are about twice as likely to file charges against blacks that carry mandatory minimum sentences than against whites..”
    ———-
    “….Black convicts have their probation revoked more often than whites and other minorities, according to a recent study of probation outcomes in Iowa, New York, Oregon, and Texas. These racial disparities held even when the study controlled for other characteristics of the probationers, such as their age, crime severity, and criminal history. In the chart below, the “unexplained” portion of each bar is the level of racial disparity that could not be explained by nonracial characteristics….”

    ============================

    It just goes on and on. I could post stats for an hour.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #53111
    Avatar photoAgamemnon
    Participant

    I agree with everything everybody wrote. 😉

    Agamemnon

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 32 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

Comments are closed.