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Sometimes I think these guys don’t even know what they’re protesting. Just kinda going with whatever someone else is doing because it will elevate them to the class of rebel. I don’t know how much of this discussion is tolerated here, so I’ll just say that these numbnuts have no idea what oppression is. Women who get stoned to death for dating someone they think is cute? That’s oppression. Women prohibited from showing their faces? That’s oppression. Children brainwashed into martyring themselves? That’s oppression. African Americans led by an African American President? That’s not oppression. The Media tricking these guys into believing that there’s oppression? That’s the real crime.
Well said sir. BTW “numbnuts” is a personal favorite term of mine.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
Sometimes I think these guys don’t even know what they’re protesting. Just kinda going with whatever someone else is doing because it will elevate them to the class of rebel. I don’t know how much of this discussion is tolerated here, so I’ll just say that these numbnuts have no idea what oppression is. Women who get stoned to death for dating someone they think is cute? That’s oppression. Women prohibited from showing their faces? That’s oppression. Children brainwashed into martyring themselves? That’s oppression. African Americans led by an African American President? That’s not oppression. The Media tricking these guys into believing that there’s oppression? That’s the real crime.
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Well, I think i understand where you are coming from X,
but I disagree in general.I mean, you can always find something ‘worse’ to point to, and then say “Oppression? Why hundreds of years ago, Native peoples were genocided by the millions, so what do these young folks know about oppression?” Or, “Oppression? why Idi Amin used to eat dissenters for lunch, what do these people know about oppression?”
You can always find ugier examples of oppression. But ya know, in this country, ya protest and work for justice wherever you want. You pick an issue that means somethin to ya, and you work for justice. So, i applaud anybody who picks any social-justice-cause and works for it.
And yes, a lot of times, young people dont really understand issues as well as people who have studied issues longer. But sometimes they know exactly what they are doing. I dunno what Britt and Quinn know or dont know.
The other board is probly better if yall wanna go into this. Though on this board we can usually handle stuff on either board without getting too ‘heated’. I mean, itz sports and itz politix both.
Always always good to see the X-man on either board.
What the hell happened in San Fran, btw? What ‘was’ that?
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vGood stuff, Zooey. I appreciate you putting that kind of effort into expanding on your initial thoughts in this thread. You make some good points that I’d be foolish to debate, because I don’t have a need to pick apart minutiae in my quest to be ‘right’. This is just, to me, good dialogue. And I do apologize for straying from the topic at hand to communicate some of the other defenses I listed. Regarding slavery and the expectation for white guilt, that was due to a few different things I had read and heard on the radio where certain groups have decided that reparations aren’t good enough and may never BE good enough. And there are a number of people who think the United States will never atone for that era. That said, I do agree about systemic racism in this Country as you laid it out. The only reason I brought up the need for more vocal opposition to “black on black” crime is because the coverage of it is alarmingly disproportionate to the vocal opposition to police on blacks crime. Which, if statistics are right, isn’t as high as it’s being portrayed. But like you, I digress.
I agree with you that Kaepernick has a right to do what he’s doing. I don’t think I even weighed in on that other than to say that all the people who are joining him are only doing so for reasons of vanity. IMO. If they were that strongly opposed to whatever it is he’s opposed to, they would have protested sooner. But maybe it’s just a need for a leader in that regard before someone can summon the courage to join. That said, wearing socks with pigs portrayed as cops is over the line and has no place in the National Football League. It’s hellaciously disrespectful to the thousands of good cops who would sacrifice their own lives to save his. So while he does have a Constitutional right to protest (and I support that), it doesn’t give him carte blache.
Finally, I very much appreciate how you illustrated that race-on-race crime can be boiled down to, I guess, class-on-class crime. It makes sense, and I haven’t looked at it like that before. You’re right. You and Dabo Swinney gave me a few things to think about today. If you haven’t heard Dabo’s presser about Kaepernick (and a few other topics), he also gave another way for America to veer way from their angry racism-centric view of our Country’s problems. While I don’t agree with everything he said, because I don’t share his particular religious beliefs, he does make a good point. To wit:
“There’s a lot of good police officers. There’s thousands of perfect traffic stops. Lot of good men. Lot of good women. But those don’t get the stories. There’s some criminals that wear badges. Guess what? There’s some criminals that work in the media. There’s some criminals that are football coaches. There’s some criminals that are politicians. There are criminals that work in churches. It’s so easy to say we have a race problem, but we got a sin problem. It’s just my opinion. That’s Dabo’s opinion.”
“Now, does that mean that there’s not still problems? Yes. Where there’s people, whether they’re black, green, yellow, orange or white, there is going to be sin, greed, hate, jealousy, deceitfulness. There’s going to be that. That’s always going to be there. But attitude, work ethic, love, respect for others, that doesn’t know any color.”
You can substitute the word ‘sin’ in his speech with any number of words that would adequately describe our problems. Hate, Economic, mental illness, leadership, education, etc. So all-in-all, it’s a good sign that there are people who don’t take such a narrow view on things. Because, clearly, not everybody in the world is racist and not all of their actions or thoughts can be drilled down to racism.
Again, thanks for responding. You’re clearly a good teacher.
You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussAs usual perception has nothing to do with reality.
Ain’t that the truth. Wanna hear something funny? Well, maybe not funny – but it’s kinda ironic. I drive a white Mazda CX7 with black-out tint on all windows and a light tint on the entire windshield. I also have 22″ chrome & brushed aluminum rims and a killer sound system – with which I bump the bass quite a bit. Would you like to know how many times I’ve been pulled over in that car for either no apparent reason, or very very minor traffic offenses? In the past year, 7 times. Know how many tickets I’ve gotten? One. Apparently I was in a subdivision that had a noise ordinance.
I’m glad you’re hanging out here, X. I hope you stick around.
What kind of music were you playing on that killer sound system? I’m thinking the reason you were pulled over is that the cops didn’t appreciate you blasting One Direction at 10,000 decibels…
You’re more likely to be confronted by the police in dangerous ways if you’re a middle class black than if you’re a poor white.
I don’t believe that. Just don’t. In my experience when stopped by the police it is “Yes sir, No sir” or “Yes officer, No officer” etc. I don’t have attitude and don’t do any passive aggressive crap either. From what I’ve seen people that get the stick are those that have attitude and don’t comply immediately and race doesn’t matter. Some people seem to think the police are robots who have to take their crap, a belief which is so naive and a recipe to get a whoopin.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
I agree with everything Zooey wrote.
The racial disparities in the criminal justice system are too stark and clear to deny, really. If you are not familiar with the stats, prepare yourself for some startling numbers.
I mean, they show an appalling race/poverty issue. The stats just go on and on and on. Arrests, convictions, sentencing, probation, you name it…whatever part of the system you look at you get….well, see below :
“….Many of the factors contributing to this inequality can be attributed to the system instead of to different behavior between blacks and whites.
Nothing illustrates the difference between justice for the races than the war on drugs. Whites and blacks use drugs at roughly the same rate – there isn’t a statistically significant difference, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Black people, however, are arrested for drug use at a much higher rate. At the disparities’ peak in the late 1980s and early 1990s, blacks were five times more likely to be arrested for drugs than whites were…..”
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“…according to research from The Sentencing Project. The ACLU also found authorization to seek the death penalty was more likely when there was at least one white victim in the case…”…
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“…SWAT teams are most often deployed for drug searches, an arrest category that targets people of color…”
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“…In many U.S. counties, Ferguson included, police officers serving the citizens are mostly white, while residents of the county are mostly people of color, according to The Washington Post…”http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/12/11/no-justice-is-not-colorblind
=======“…Police are three times as likely to search the cars of stopped black drivers than stopped white drivers, as the chart below, based on data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, illustrates. Nationally, black drivers are also more likely to be pulled over and less likely to receive a reason for being stopped. In one Rhode Island study, black drivers were stopped more even though they were less likely to receive a citation…”
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/08/racial_disparities_in_the_criminal_justice_system_eight_charts_illustrating.html
————–“…A 2014 study in New York City showed that blacks were more likely than whites or nonblack minorities to be in jail while they await trial, even after controlling for the seriousness of charges and prior record. Other research suggests that this disparity is often due to the fact that black defendants cannot afford to pay bail. The temporary incarceration stigmatizes the defendant, disrupts family life and employment, and makes it harder for the defendant to prepare a defense. In the chart below, “jail” refers to defendants who were offered bail but could not post it; “remanded” refers to defendants who were not given the option of posting bail…”
————d”…The same study in New York found that black defendants are more likely to be offered plea deals that include prison time than whites or nonblack minorities. Even after controlling for many factors, including the seriousness of charges and prior record, blacks were 13 percent more likely than whites to be offered such deals..”
——–“…Researchers found that North Carolina prosecutors were excluding black people from juries in capital cases at twice the rate of other jurors, even when controlling for legitimate justifications for striking jurors, such as employment status or reservations about the death penalty. Other studies have shown that excluding black people from juries can influence deliberations and verdicts. For example, black defendants in capital cases with white victims are less likely to receive a death sentence if there is a black juror….”
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“…2012 working paper found “robust evidence” that black male federal defendants were given longer sentences than comparable whites. Black men’s sentences were, on average, 10 percent longer than those of their white peers. This is partly explained by the fact that prosecutors are about twice as likely to file charges against blacks that carry mandatory minimum sentences than against whites..”
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“….Black convicts have their probation revoked more often than whites and other minorities, according to a recent study of probation outcomes in Iowa, New York, Oregon, and Texas. These racial disparities held even when the study controlled for other characteristics of the probationers, such as their age, crime severity, and criminal history. In the chart below, the “unexplained” portion of each bar is the level of racial disparity that could not be explained by nonracial characteristics….”============================
It just goes on and on. I could post stats for an hour.
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