Pentagon-Bio-Secrets in Ukraine

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  • August 23, 2017 at 2:47 pm #73112
    wv
    Participant

    In a culture of lies, a nation of lies, a government of lies, one is always left wondering about situations like…this one, among many many others.
    w
    v

    =================
    “….As soon as that agreement was in place, an institution known as the Central Reference Laboratory (CRL) opened in Odessa, based at the Mechnikov Anti-Plague Research Institute and specializing in the study of human pathogens (the US Defense Dept. has invested about $3.5 million into the project, with the work carried out by its longtime subcontractor, the Black & Veatch Special Projects Corp.), in addition to diagnostic labs in Dnipropetrovsk, Lviv, Luhansk, and Merefa (near Kharkov). It is interesting to note that security has been ramped up at the laboratory in Merefa, which is now a Biosafety Level 3 facility (authorized to work on strains of deadly human viruses and bacteria suitable for use as biological weapons).

    None of the CRLs are under the jurisdiction of the state in which they are located, and their work is closed to outsiders. The personnel are primarily US citizens with diplomatic immunity. In other words, no representatives from the host country are allowed access to these laboratories (not even the public health authorities). The number of employees (between 50 and 250) exceeds the number of staff who would be needed to carry out this sort of work in a civilian facility. The laboratories are headed by high-ranking US Army officers who are experts in biological weapons and biological terrorism.

    Similar labs also opened in Kiev, Kherson, Vinnytsia, Ternopil, and Uzhhorod prior to 2014. A total of $183 million has been invested in these projects. Ever since the 2014 coup, events in Ukraine associated with these issues have been held tightly under wraps – journalists from Ukraine’s “independent” press are not permitted to make inquiries.

    Many experts feel that the American “biosecurity” project that is responsible for launching this network of bio-laboratories in Ukraine is nothing but a way to maneuver around the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention. These military biological labs, which are supposedly intended to “reduce biological threats” within a particular state, are in fact a network under the control of the Pentagon that studies the impact of viruses and bacteria on a specific gene pool, be it people, animals, or plants.

    And a request made by the US Air Force Office of Air Education and Training Command for samples of DNA and synovial fluid from Russians of European extraction has further piqued curiosity about the American military’s biological laboratories and the potential for biological warfare waged against Slavic members of the diplomatic corps.

    Understandably, this request prompted a storm of questions, but the Command refused to provide any answers whatsoever. Experts in biological weapons claim that these types of specific samples are primarily required when a biological weapon is being designed to destroy a specific populace – in this case (Caucasian) Russians…. see link…”
    Ukraine:https://orientalreview.org/2017/08/21/pentagon-setting-biological-bombs-europe/

    August 23, 2017 at 2:53 pm #73114
    zn
    Moderator
    wv wrote:

    Experts in biological weapons claim that these types of specific samples are primarily required when a biological weapon is being designed to destroy a specific populace – in this case (Caucasian) Russians

    Yeah I would like to see who those “experts” were.

    Have you ever heard of bio-weapons designed to destroy a specific populace?

    That’s a concept that’s so far-fetched, it hasn’t even shown up in science fiction.

    …

    August 23, 2017 at 4:09 pm #73116
    wv
    Participant
    zn wrote:
    wv wrote:

    Experts in biological weapons claim that these types of specific samples are primarily required when a biological weapon is being designed to destroy a specific populace – in this case (Caucasian) Russians

    Yeah I would like to see who those “experts” were.

    Have you ever heard of bio-weapons designed to destroy a specific populace?

    That’s a concept that’s so far-fetched, it hasn’t even shown up in science fiction.

    …

    ============

    Ok, let us google around and see what we can find out about targeting bio-weapons to a specific population.

    w
    v

    August 23, 2017 at 4:18 pm #73117
    wv
    Participant

    “ethnic bioweapon” seems to be a useful search term:

    wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_bioweapon

    =============

    “…report by the British Medical Association (BMA).

    The report, Biotechnology, Weapons and Humanity II, warns that construction of genetic weapons “is now approaching reality”. Such “genetic bombs” could contain anthrax or bubonic plague tailored to activate only when genes indicated the infected person was from a particular group.
    link:https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/oct/28/thisweekssciencequestions.weaponstechnology

    ===

    With all you know about what the CIA has already done in the past, I’m surprised you think they WOULDNT be working on this stuff. Seems very likely (to me) that they would indeed be working on this kind of thing. Its what they do. And of course they would lie about it.

    w
    v

    w
    v

    August 23, 2017 at 4:26 pm #73118
    wv
    Participant

    Dartmouth Undergrad Journal of Science Online
    Genetically Engineered Bioweapons: A New Breed of Weapons for Modern Warfare

    “…Although bioweapons have been used in war for many centuries, a recent surge in genetic understanding, as well as a rapid growth in computational power, has allowed genetic engineering to play a larger role in the development of new bioweapons. In the bioweapon industry, genetic engineering can be used to manipulate genes to create new pathogenic characteristics aimed at enhancing the efficacy of the weapon through increased survivability, infectivity, virulence, and drug resistance (2). While the positive societal implications of improved biotechnology are apparent, the “black biology” of bioweapon development may be “one of the gravest threats we will face” (2).

    Limits of Past Bioweapons…”

    Link:http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/2013/03/genetically-engineered-bioweapons-a-new-breed-of-weapons-for-modern-warfare/#.WZ3kXOlGlPY

    August 23, 2017 at 4:31 pm #73119
    zn
    Moderator
    wv wrote:

    Seems very likely (to me) that they would indeed be working on this kind of thing. Its what they do.

    Because it’s not possible.

    If it were the Russians would have already done it.

    There’s not even a naturally bred disease that narrowly affects only one target ethnic population. And that’s after a couple of hundred thousand years of trying.

    August 23, 2017 at 6:34 pm #73126
    wv
    Participant
    zn wrote:
    wv wrote:

    Seems very likely (to me) that they would indeed be working on this kind of thing. Its what they do.

    Because it’s not possible.

    If it were the Russians would have already done it.

    There’s not even a naturally bred disease that narrowly affects only one target ethnic population. And that’s after a couple of hundred thousand years of trying.

    ==============

    Well apparently the British Medical Association disagrees.

    And you said it wasnt even in the realm of sci-fi — but they are already discussing the ethics of it in Medical Journals.

    w
    v
    ============
    Is all fair in biological warfare? The controversy over genetically engineered biological weapons

    J M Appel

    Dr Jacob M Appel, 140 Claremont Ave #3D, New York, NY 10027; jacobmappel@gmail.com

    Abstract

    Advances in genetics may soon make possible the development of ethnic bioweapons that target specific ethnic or racial groups based upon genetic markers. While occasional published reports of such research generate public outrage, little has been written about the ethical distinction (if any) between the development of such weapons and ethnically neutral bioweapons. The purpose of this paper is to launch a debate on the subject of ethnic bioweapons before they become a scientific reality.
    link:http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/jme.2008.028944

    August 23, 2017 at 6:41 pm #73127
    wv
    Participant

    ==============
    link:http://projectcensored.org/16-human-genome-project-opens-the-door-to-ethnically-specific-bioweapons/

    Human Genome Project Opens the Door to Ethnically Specific Bioweapons
    April 30, 2010

    In October 1997, Dr. Wayne Nathanson, chief of the Science and Ethics Department of the Medical Society of the United Kingdom, warned the annual meeting of the Society that “gene therapy” might possibly be turned into “gene weapons” which could potentially be used to target particular genes possessed by certain groups of people. These weapons, Nathanson warned, could be delivered not only in the forms already seen in warfare such as gas and aerosol, but could also be added to water supplies, causing not only death but sterility and birth defects in targeted groups.

    Current estimates of the cost of developing a “gene weapon” have been placed at around $50 million, still quite a stretch for an isolated band of neo-Nazis, but well within the capabilities of covert government programs.

    On November 15, 1998, the London Times reported that Israel claimed to have successfully developed a genetically specific “ethnic bullet” that targets Arabs. When an Israeli government spokesman was asked to confirm the existence of ethnic weapons, he did not deny that they had them, but rather said, “we have a basket full of serious surprises that we will not hesitate to use if we feel that the state of Israel is under serious threat.”…

    The U.S. has a long history of interest in such genetic research. The current home of the Human Genome Project is the Cold Springs Harbor laboratory on Long Island, NY-the exact site of the notorious Eugenics Research…

    The November 1970 issue of the Military Review published an article entitled “Ethnic Weapons” for command-level military personnel. The author of the article was Dr. Carl Larson, head of the Department of Human Genetics at the Institute of Genetics in Lund, Sweden. Dr Larson wrote of how genetic variations in races are concurrent with differences in tolerances for various substances. For instance, large segments of Southeast Asian populations display a lactose intolerance due to the absence of the enzyme lactase in the digestive system. A biological weapon could conceivably take advantage of this genetic variance and incapacitate or kill an entire population……
    …..

    Update by Greg Bishop
    ….
    ……When the London Times broke the story of the Israeli bioweapons project and interest in the development of pathogens that would disable or kill by ethnicity, they quoted an unnamed British intelligence source that said that these sorts of weapons were “theoretically possible.” They were not only “theoretical” but had been researched for nearly 50 years. The lynchpin of the Times article was the writer’s reliance on a specifically genetic explanation for ethnic weapons…

    …
    …For more information on this story:

    Hersh, Seymour M. Chemical and Biological Warfare: America’s Hidden Arsenal, Bobbs-Merrill, Indianapolis, 1968.
    Piller, Charles. Gene Wars: Military Control Over the New Genetic Technologies, Beech Tree Books, New York , 1988.
    Spiers, Edward M. Chemical and Biological Weapons: A Study in Proliferation, St. Martin’s Press, New York, 1994.

    August 23, 2017 at 6:54 pm #73129
    zn
    Moderator

    The purpose of this paper is to launch a debate on the subject of ethnic bioweapons before they become a scientific reality.

    Thank you. Interesting. Then people are saying it is theoretically possible. But not real.

    Either way that Russian article still has all the markers of a scare piece. The question then becomes, why is it a Russian publication wants people to think it’s already being done, with them as the targets. Has US foreign policy ever before been aimed at genocide? For that matter, even if such weapons do become possible one day, are ethnic Russians distinct enough from other neighboring peoples to be a selective target? Is there a piece in the Russian Oriental Review that exposes Russian research into bio-weapons? Because they do have a long and deep and very involved history when it comes to that.

    August 23, 2017 at 8:37 pm #73131
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    The problem with all this is that there are no genes that are population specific. The frequencies in which they appear can vary between populations, but none are exclusive to a certain population. Genetic variation is greater within a population than between them. So even if they developed a biological weapon targeted against a certain population, there would be potential for a lot of collateral damage among other groups that weren’t targeted. So to me, the risk of developing bio-weapons against genes in certain ethnic populations would be too risky, unless they weren’t worried about it moving through other populations with varying degrees of virulence.

    August 23, 2017 at 10:31 pm #73135
    wv
    Participant
    zn wrote:

    The purpose of this paper is to launch a debate on the subject of ethnic bioweapons before they become a scientific reality.

    Thank you. Interesting. Then people are saying it is theoretically possible. But not real.

    Either way that Russian article still has all the markers of a scare piece. The question then becomes, why is it a Russian publication wants people to think it’s already being done, with them as the targets. Has US foreign policy ever before been aimed at genocide? For that matter, even if such weapons do become possible one day, are ethnic Russians distinct enough from other neighboring peoples to be a selective target? Is there a piece in the Russian Oriental Review that exposes Russian research into bio-weapons? Because they do have a long and deep and very involved history when it comes to that.

    =============
    The London Times is a Russian article? The Guardian is Russian? Dartmouth?

    There are plenty of articles on this stuff. You claimed it was impossible and not even sci-fi would touch it. But the British Medical Association says “It is NOW APPROACHING reality”. Approaching. Getting near. Bio-ethics journals are now addressing the issue. So, its not nearly as far-fetched as you are arguing. You seem to just dismiss anything if it even smells ‘russian’ zn. It just seems like a blind-spot to me.

    And anyway, to ME, the point isnt even that its here or its near. The point is the CIA WORKS on stuff like this. Millions of dollars in research. And it does it in Secret. And of course it LIES about it to the public. Culture of Lies.

    No heat here, btw. Just strong disagreement. No big thing.

    w
    v

    August 23, 2017 at 10:34 pm #73136
    wv
    Participant
    nittany ram wrote:

    The problem with all this is that there are no genes that are population specific. The frequencies in which they appear can vary between populations, but none are exclusive to a certain population. Genetic variation is greater within a population than between them. So even if they developed a biological weapon targeted against a certain population, there would be potential for a lot of collateral damage among other groups that weren’t targeted. So to me, the risk of developing bio-weapons against genes in certain ethnic populations would be too risky, unless they weren’t worried about it moving through other populations with varying degrees of virulence.

    ================

    And do you think ANY of that ‘collateral damage’ stuff would cause the CIA
    to stop researching it, Nittany?

    What do you think?

    w
    v

    August 23, 2017 at 11:42 pm #73140
    zn
    Moderator
    wv wrote:

    And do you think ANY of that ‘collateral damage’ stuff would cause the CIA
    to stop researching it, Nittany?

    What do you think?

    w
    v

    Think about that. That would be plain genocidal on a massive scale. So they want to take out ethnic spaniards which would be pretty near impossible because there’s no specific genetic markers for being spanish any more than there is for being american. And as a result they take out most of europe.

    And what are Russians genetically btw? It’s not even clear they are an ethnicity. Russians are Vikings who became farmers and then went through centuries of cross-breeding through different invasions. They cannot possibly guarantee that what would take out Russians wouldn’t also take out Ukrainians, yet according to the implied narrative in that Russian article, they’re doing this because (and this is a big ongoing Russian paranoid theme) they are anti-Russian and pro-Ukrainian. To the point where they actually contemplate genocide against all Russians (as if that were possible, and by that I mean, as if it were possible to mark Russians as genetically distinct from Poles, Ukrainians, Georgians, and for that matter Scandanavians).

    And that’s setting aside the fact that some articles claim that such a thing (genetically ear-marked bio-weapons) is possible, in theory. Not that it’s real or even could be genuinely accomplished.

    August 24, 2017 at 5:19 am #73142
    nittany ram
    Moderator
    wv wrote:
    nittany ram wrote:

    The problem with all this is that there are no genes that are population specific. The frequencies in which they appear can vary between populations, but none are exclusive to a certain population. Genetic variation is greater within a population than between them. So even if they developed a biological weapon targeted against a certain population, there would be potential for a lot of collateral damage among other groups that weren’t targeted. So to me, the risk of developing bio-weapons against genes in certain ethnic populations would be too risky, unless they weren’t worried about it moving through other populations with varying degrees of virulence.

    ================

    And do you think ANY of that ‘collateral damage’ stuff would cause the CIA
    to stop researching it, Nittany?

    What do you think?

    w
    v

    Could they be researching it? Sure. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were researching it. The issue with such a weapon would be containment and isolation. The target population would have to be isolated through strict travel bans. Basically quarantene the region. But even then the risk of it spreading to other populations would be high. So there are galactically huge problems that would have to be overcome for such a weapon to be used in the intended manner, which I assume would not be creating a global pandemic.

    Keep in mind the article provided no proof that this research was actually being done at any of these labs. It’s a pretty big leap from ‘Requesting sonovial fluid samples from Russians of European extraction’ to developing genetic bio-weapons.

    And the article does read like a scare piece. It mentioned the GM H5N1 bird flu virus developed in the Netherlands that could potentially spread from person to person through the air. But the article didn’t mention that it was developed amid a lot of controversy. There was no cover up. Nothing was hidden. The researchers were aware of the risk, but did so because the only way to develop controls against an airborne bird flu would be to create one. And given the ease in which it was created, it lends credence to the researcher’s contention that the wild virus would eventually make that transition itself anyway. The potential danger of it escaping the lab or of terrorists using their published work to create a bio-weapon is real although the likelihood of it happening is debatable. But it wasn’t part of some covert research project consistent with the theme of the article. So in that regard, I think the article is alarmist. It doesn’t back up its contentions with hard evidence – just speculation, albeit reasonable in some ways.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 1 month ago by nittany ram.
    August 24, 2017 at 7:17 am #73145
    wv
    Participant
    nittany ram wrote:

    Could they be researching it? Sure. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were researching it.

    =================

    Well it would totally surprise me if they WERENT researching it.

    I get the fact that there are a lot of science-challenges that
    would have to be overcome. But this is the CIA.
    CIA:http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-weirdest-cia-programs.php

    I’ve had my say, I’ll leave it there now. We’ll see if any info
    on this subject emerges in the future.

    w
    v

    August 24, 2017 at 8:17 am #73148
    nittany ram
    Moderator
    wv wrote:
    nittany ram wrote:

    Could they be researching it? Sure. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were researching it.

    =================

    Well it would totally surprise me if they WERENT researching it.

    I get the fact that there are a lot of science-challenges that
    would have to be overcome. But this is the CIA.
    CIA:http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-weirdest-cia-programs.php

    I’ve had my say, I’ll leave it there now. We’ll see if any info
    on this subject emerges in the future.

    w
    v

    There are several possibilities…
    1. They are actively researching it.
    2. They have looked at before and decided it wasn’t feasible.
    3. They never developed an interest in it.
    4. All of their resources are being spent trying to contain the xenomorph the Apollo mission brought back from the moon.

    If I were to rank the above possibilities from most likely to least likely, it would go…
    2, 1, 4, 3.

    But this is all speculation. I don’t see any evidence supporting any position. The article was food for thought but didn’t provide any answers.

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