"One of the cops under my command is a young Asian officer"

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  • #48484
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    from off the net: Joe McKinney

    https://www.facebook.com/joe.mckinney.18/posts/10209684229244071

    Now it’s your turn to be a police supervisor. Here’s the situation, plus a little backstory.
    One of the cops under my command is a young Asian officer. He’s pretty new, and he hasn’t experienced a whole lot of the bald, ugly realities that policing exposes you to. But the other day, he got a taste of it. He was dispatched to a routine family disturbance, when the person requesting police intervention held up a hand and said, “No. Ain’t no way in hell a chink is gonna handle my shit.” The guy then called 911 to complain that “a fucking Chinese guy” was dispatched to handle his family disturbance. He said he wanted “a real cop” to handle the matter and wanted to speak to a supervisor about why we would send a “slant eye” to his house.
    I responded and handled the complaint. Problem solved, at least as far as that racist piece of shit was concerned. But the real problem remained. My officer was visibly shaken and angry at the prejudice that had just been heaped on him. The fire department always debriefs after big incidents. They come together and talk about what went right and what went wrong. They get better as a result. Cops don’t have that luxury. We are so shorthanded and the calls for service so numerous that my guys are expected to go from a family disturbance to a raped six year old little girl to a murder scene to a traffic accident to an old woman too blind and scared by the news to realize that the package on her doorstep is not a bomb, but her eye medicine, and they are expected to handle it all with calm and good judgment and a professionalism that few civilians and police critics could muster. I didn’t feel like my officer was in that place, and I told him to finish his report and then return to the substation so we could have a talk.
    I got back to the substation before he did, and as I walked in the back door, I happened to see another of my officers turning in some paperwork. This guy is one of my seasoned pros. He’s been a cop for six years now, and he’s tough, smart and if something was going wrong at my house, or my family needed help, I’d be relieved to see him show up. He’s one of the good ones. And he happens to be black.
    About three years ago he experienced the same thing my Asian officer experienced. I went out on the complaint, and listened to some citizen scream and yell that there was no way in hell a “nigger” was going to enter his home. Like my young Asian officer, my black officer was shaken and upset. He handled the situation professionally and calmly, but I could tell how upset he was. I asked him to return to the office so we could talk. I felt stupid and completely useless trying to talk to him about what happened and what he’d just experienced. But when I saw him at that moment, just before my young Asian officer returned, I felt like it was the perfect opportunity to get better at my job. I told the seasoned black officer what had happened, and I reminded him of our conversation several years before. I asked him what I could have said or done to be better. How did I mess up? How could I have handled it better? Is there anything I could say this time to do it better?
    The officer actually started crying. He told me that he was grateful for the words I said at the time, but that nothing had changed. He told me that he has experienced the same prejudice and irrational hatred many times since. The only difference is that now he’s developed a cop’s thick skin. He doesn’t get offended anymore, he just pushes on through it and does his job.
    His stoicism broke my heart.
    My question to you is this: What do I say in moments like this? They happen all the time. What can you possibly say, right now, while the sting of ugly prejudice is still burning, to calm a young officer down? Words must be spoken, and the situation must be dealt with, but what to say? What can a middle aged white guy say to a twenty-five year old Asian man about prejudice and the need to weather it all in the interests of serving and protecting our diverse community?
    What would you say?

    #48498
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’d say buck up theres assholes everywhere.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48499
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I’d say buck up theres assholes everywhere.

    Which means you;re white.

    No one has or ever will do that to you.

    So how relevant, really, are OUR thoughts on this? The truth is, we don’t know. We have no idea. We might as well be discussing what childbirth feels like.

    .

    #48500
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I’d say buck up theres assholes everywhere.

    Which means you;re white. Like me.

    No one has or ever will do that to you.

    So how relevant, really, are OUR thoughts on this? The truth is, we don’t know. We have no idea. We might as well be discussing what childbirth feels like.

    .

    #48502
    TSRF
    Participant

    Obviously a proponent of tough love, bnw. That may work in a combat situation, but I don’t think it is healthy for a long term fix. Stiff upper lip results in stress, high blood pressure and death.

    If I was that police supervisor, I’d be more concerned with the reaction of his seasoned vet than how I had to deal with the new kid.

    Not sure where these cops are, big city or little town. Either case, I think the real solution is community outreach. The more non-cop-like things they can do with the general public, the better.

    In the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook, several volunteers showed up with Comfort Dogs. These were stationed at every school in town. If kids were feeling especially sad, they could go out of their class and give a Comfort Dog a hug. My daughter, especially said it was a big help and she talked at length to the volunteers minding the dogs.

    Maybe cops should be the ones with Comfort Dogs. Small steps, but something has to be done to break down the “us” vs. “them” walls.

    Kindness is an answer. Love is an answer. Respect is an answer. Love and respect are earned, kindness is a deliberate state of mind that can open the door to both.

    #48506
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well the cop-education has to begin at their academy one would think.
    There should be (and is, i assume) plenty of class work and role playing
    concerning the assortment of bigots and racists etc, they will
    be aiding and/or arresting.

    Its mainly white cops that need educating of course. Minority cops
    have lived their whole lives dealing with….ya know…all the racist shit.
    Its a subject they have phd’s in just by living two decades on Earth.

    w
    v
    “In this country American means white. Everybody else has to hyphenate.”
    ― Toni Morrison

    #48512
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’d say buck up theres assholes everywhere.

    Which means you;re white.

    No one has or ever will do that to you.

    So how relevant, really, are OUR thoughts on this? The truth is, we don’t know. We have no idea. We might as well be discussing what childbirth feels like.

    .

    Do it to me racially probably not outside of prison. But I have endured prejudice based upon religion. As I said assholes are everywhere.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48513
    bnw
    Blocked

    Obviously a proponent of tough love, bnw. That may work in a combat situation, but I don’t think it is healthy for a long term fix. Stiff upper lip results in stress, high blood pressure and death.

    If I was that police supervisor, I’d be more concerned with the reaction of his seasoned vet than how I had to deal with the new kid.

    Not sure where these cops are, big city or little town. Either case, I think the real solution is community outreach. The more non-cop-like things they can do with the general public, the better.

    In the immediate aftermath of Sandy Hook, several volunteers showed up with Comfort Dogs. These were stationed at every school in town. If kids were feeling especially sad, they could go out of their class and give a Comfort Dog a hug. My daughter, especially said it was a big help and she talked at length to the volunteers minding the dogs.

    Maybe cops should be the ones with Comfort Dogs. Small steps, but something has to be done to break down the “us” vs. “them” walls.

    Kindness is an answer. Love is an answer. Respect is an answer. Love and respect are earned, kindness is a deliberate state of mind that can open the door to both.

    Or buck up.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48519
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I’d say buck up theres assholes everywhere.

    Which means you;re white.

    No one has or ever will do that to you.

    So how relevant, really, are OUR thoughts on this? The truth is, we don’t know. We have no idea. We might as well be discussing what childbirth feels like.

    .

    Do it to me racially probably not outside of prison. But I have endured prejudice based upon religion. As I said assholes are everywhere.

    They know your religion only if you profess it or mention it. I have encountered prejudice too in various ways (as has everyone) but being of the majority we can walk away from it if we want.

    It’s not like all members of your religious affiliation are identifiable by skin color plus there’s a long, deep, wide history of actively preventing you from have rights as an american based solely on that color.

    It’s completely arrogant of us to act like we know what that’s like.

    The ramifications of what you say are more clear if you stated the truth instead of letting it slip by. That is, what if you had said, they should get over it because there are racists everywhere. See at a certain point, if you state it more accurately that way, it begs the question—why don’t the racists get over it.

    ..

    #48524
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    not just prejudice mind you. having your identity stripped from you. your rights as a human being. and not just your identity. your rights. your dignity. but that of your father and your mother. your uncles and aunts. your grandparents. your cousins. your children. your children’s children. your neighbors. all stripped away for generations. the compounding effect of these traumas has to be staggering.

    some people can arise out of that with their sanity intact. but it’s a numbers game really. a lot of people can’t just drag themselves out of something that traumatic.

    i think the only way to truly comprehend something like that is to go through it yourself. but even then. each person is different. and is going to react to these traumas differently.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Avatar photoInvaderRam.
    #48533
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’d say buck up theres assholes everywhere.

    Which means you;re white.

    No one has or ever will do that to you.

    So how relevant, really, are OUR thoughts on this? The truth is, we don’t know. We have no idea. We might as well be discussing what childbirth feels like.

    .

    Do it to me racially probably not outside of prison. But I have endured prejudice based upon religion. As I said assholes are everywhere.

    They know your religion only if you profess it or mention it. I have encountered prejudice too in various ways (as has everyone) but being of the majority we can walk away from it if we want.

    It’s not like all members of your religious affiliation are identifiable by skin color plus there’s a long, deep, wide history of actively preventing you from have rights as an american based solely on that color.

    It’s completely arrogant of us to act like we know what that’s like.

    The ramifications of what you say are more clear if you stated the truth instead of letting it slip by. That is, what if you had said, they should get over it because there are racists everywhere. See at a certain point, if you state it more accurately that way, it begs the question—why don’t the racists get over it.

    ..

    Of course the person in question was racist. Do you think either the black or asian policemen didn’t already know that? Of course not. The act itself of refusing assistance was an asshole move. Therefore I did state it accurately.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48595
    TSRF
    Participant

    Don’t know if any of you watched the memorial service from Dallas, but I did.

    W was there, and spoke for a few moments, but Obama spoke for like 45 minutes, and it was powerful. He addressed how difficult it is to be an overworked police officer, and also how difficult it is to be a minority in the present day.

    He quote the bible several times, including the Old Testament (Ezekiel, I think) when he stated (and I paraphrase), “The Lord will take your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh”. Basically stating that we, as Americans, need to open our hearts to each other.

    Much better message than “Buck Up”, don’t you think?

    #48597
    bnw
    Blocked

    Don’t know if any of you watched the memorial service from Dallas, but I did.

    W was there, and spoke for a few moments, but Obama spoke for like 45 minutes, and it was powerful. He addressed how difficult it is to be an overworked police officer, and also how difficult it is to be a minority in the present day.

    He quote the bible several times, including the Old Testament (Ezekiel, I think) when he stated (and I paraphrase), “The Lord will take your heart of stone and replace it with a heart of flesh”. Basically stating that we, as Americans, need to open our hearts to each other.

    Much better message than “Buck Up”, don’t you think?

    No I don’t. He kills thousands of innocents by drone strikes commanded from thousands of miles away and you think he has a good message? What a hypocrite.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48599
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Of course the person in question was racist. Do you think either the black or asian policemen didn’t already know that? Of course not. The act itself of refusing assistance was an asshole move. Therefore I did state it accurately.

    Where did anyone say anything about “refusing assistance”? That’s not in the article.

    And my point was, if you acknowledge the real problem—saying RACISTS are everywhere, not assholes are everywhere—then it looks different. It’s less of a cover up to put it that way. Because after a while you eventually have to recognize, the racists have no excuse and ought to change…being racist is on them. Recognizing that means we move away from the position of being white while telling minorities the “proper” way to handle racism when that’s simple arrogance…we don’t encounter racism like that. So who are we to tell anyone how to handle it.

    ..

    #48601
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    well i’m korean. and how i encounter racism is going to be very different from how a persian encounters racism. and how a japanese encounters racism. and black and so forth. and how i encounter racism will differ even from that of a korean from a different generation. or even depending on where i grew up. and also depending on what ethnicity i’m interacting with.

    it’s just a big clusterfuck.

    #48602
    bnw
    Blocked

    Of course the person in question was racist. Do you think either the black or asian policemen didn’t already know that? Of course not. The act itself of refusing assistance was an asshole move. Therefore I did state it accurately.

    Where did anyone say anything about “refusing assistance”? That’s not in the article.

    And my point was, if you acknowledge the real problem—saying RACISTS are everywhere, not assholes are everywhere—then it looks different. It’s less of a cover up to put it that way. Because after a while you eventually have to recognize, the racists have no excuse and ought to change…being racist is on them. Recognizing that means we move away from the position of being white while telling minorities the “proper” way to handle racism when that’s simple arrogance…we don’t encounter racism like that. So who are we to tell anyone how to handle it.

    ..

    In both cases the racists refused the assistance of the responding minority officer. Refusing their assistance is an asshole move. Is it because you don’t see the phrase “refusing assistance” in the article? Really? Wow.

    And to top it off you have forgotten what the article asked the reader at the end-

    “My question to you is this: What do I say in moments like this? They happen all the time. What can you possibly say, right now, while the sting of ugly prejudice is still burning, to calm a young officer down? Words must be spoken, and the situation must be dealt with, but what to say? What can a middle aged white guy say to a twenty-five year old Asian man about prejudice and the need to weather it all in the interests of serving and protecting our diverse community?
    What would you say?”

    So I answered the question asked of me. Buck up assholes are everywhere.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48603
    TSRF
    Participant

    bnw, I sense a conflict.

    Your inner liberal is clawing to get out. Feed your beast…

    #48610
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    #48615
    bnw
    Blocked

    bnw, I sense a conflict.

    Your inner liberal is clawing to get out. Feed your beast…

    You never make much sense. BTW I’d give my own kids that advice.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48645
    TSRF
    Participant

    You never make much sense. BTW I’d give my own kids that advice.

    Thank you! That is probably the nicest thing you have ever said to me. To be fair, I can’t make much sense of most of the positions you take here (although, if Trump (AKA thin skinned whiny little bitch) does get elected, there is a very unpleasant position that most of what is left of the Middle Class is going to have to take…

    #48650
    bnw
    Blocked

    You never make much sense. BTW I’d give my own kids that advice.

    Thank you! That is probably the nicest thing you have ever said to me. To be fair, I can’t make much sense of most of the positions you take here (although, if Trump (AKA thin skinned whiny little bitch) does get elected, there is a very unpleasant position that most of what is left of the Middle Class is going to have to take…

    Your baiting hasn’t worked with me. Never will.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48653
    TSRF
    Participant

    I’m honestly not trying to bait you, just probing a bit to try and figure out why you have the beliefs you do.

    If you don’t mind me asking, did you grow up in a city or a small town? Where do you live now? Me, I grew up in Fairfield, CT. A medium sized town on Long Island Sound. I now live in Sandy Hook, CT, a village in Newtown, CT with my wife, 2 children and cat.

    You stated you felt persecuted because of your religion. Again, if you don’t mind me asking, what is your religion? Me, I was raised Roman Catholic, but had that beaten out of me after 12 years of Catholic school (1st Grade through High school). I now consider myself an Atheist (until proven otherwise).

    Will you leave the country if Hillary wins? Me, I’m considering it if Trump wins…

    #48660
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’m honestly not trying to bait you, just probing a bit to try and figure out why you have the beliefs you do.

    If you don’t mind me asking, did you grow up in a city or a small town? Where do you live now? Me, I grew up in Fairfield, CT. A medium sized town on Long Island Sound. I now live in Sandy Hook, CT, a village in Newtown, CT with my wife, 2 children and cat.

    You stated you felt persecuted because of your religion. Again, if you don’t mind me asking, what is your religion? Me, I was raised Roman Catholic, but had that beaten out of me after 12 years of Catholic school (1st Grade through High school). I now consider myself an Atheist (until proven otherwise).

    Will you leave the country if Hillary wins? Me, I’m considering it if Trump wins…

    Grew up in South St.Louis County, MO. It was much more wide open then than now. I now live in Oak Ridge, TN home to the national laboratory with my wife and 2 kids. Not persecution but prejudice. I was raised Roman Catholic and still identify as such though rarely attend mass. No plans to leave the US.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48735
    TSRF
    Participant

    I’m surprised but maybe shouldn’t be that you’ve felt prejudice because of being Roman Catholic. Not something you’d think would an issue in Late 20th Early 21st Century America. Maybe I never saw it because the East Coast has a larger Catholic population? I am well aware that there has been a rich history of Anti-Papists in this country, Catholics being called traitors for bowing their knee to a Roman dictator and all…

    I spent five weeks in Knoxville, one week every quarter in 2003 – 2004 when I was enrolled in a management training course. The course was held right at the hotel at the airport. Very nice area. One week, we were given the afternoon off in the middle of the week. Most everyone else went to Dolly World, but I took a road trip to Chattanooga and had lunch with my sister who drove up from Northern Georgia. Very nice small American city.

    I personally do not feel comfortable with the idea on President Trump. I’m also not thrilled with the idea of President H. Clinton. I’m sure you know you aren’t going to change anybody’s vote here; me too. I’m just hoping that we don’t end up with a third party alternative that will draw enough votes away from Hillary to give The Donald the election a la Ralph “unsafe at any speed” Nader.

    #48736
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I’m just hoping that we don’t end up with a third party alternative that will draw enough votes away from Hillary to give The Donald the election a la Ralph “unsafe at any speed” Nader.

    TSRF,

    I agree with so much of what you say on the Huddle. And I greatly respect your passion. But I think you should research Nader’s impact on the election a bit further.

    From my own research, it’s more than clear that he had nothing whatsoever to do with Bush winning. And our election process just doesn’t work that way, anyway. There is no decisive state. There can’t be. Because the electoral college works on a collective basis. Gore only won 20 states; Bush 30. The electoral college ended up being 271 to 266. Take any of the states Bush won and flip them, Gore wins. He can keep Florida and he (Bush) still loses.

    Beyond that, Nader, based on exit polls in Florida, took away, perhaps, 24,000 potential Gore voters, but 308,000 Dems voted for Bush. If just 250 had switched their votes from Bush to Gore, Gore would have won Florida.

    As in, if we play the counterfactual game, we can’t cherry pick. We would have to look at every state Gore lost, every state Bush won, and look for things that could have flipped the results. To me, blaming Nader is just all too convenient for Dem partisans — not saying you are one — because it takes their own voting patterns off the hook, their own poor campaigning, their own inability to close the deal.

    Gore lost his own state of Tennessee. If he had won that state, he would have had enough electoral points to win the election. But, again, it’s the total accumulation. No one state can be decisive. So no third party run can be, either.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #48738
    TSRF
    Participant

    Billy, I hear you.

    Maybe (probably) it is a huge oversimplification, if Nader wasn’t running, the majority of the people who voted for him would have not voted or would have voted for the Dem.

    Same thing with H. Ross P. If he wasn’t running, the majority of his voters would have not voted or would have voted for Bush, denying Bill Clinton the election.

    I’m not railing against 3rd party canidates, in fact, I think we need a strong third and fourth and fifth party to keep the big two honest.

    However, I have a very bad feeling this season, and just feel that this race is going to be razor thin. I feel that the majority of people who will vote for 3rd party canidates this year are going to be people that would usually vote Dem. I hope I’m wrong, but I hope there isn’t a Brexit moment the day after election day when a lot of us say, “Well, I didn’t vote for Clinton, but I had no idea Trump would Win.”

    #48739
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    TSRF,

    I can see that view as well. And, again, I respect your vision of things.

    But I wish Americans wouldn’t even have to think in those terms, which the duopoly has done much to push. That if we vote third party, we’re going to hand the victory over to the bad guys.

    Thing is, I truly, truly believe both parties are dominated by the bad guys — or, at least, Arendt’s banality of evil. So I wish no one would vote for either party, and we could break its stranglehold on our politics.

    It’s a monopoly, and if it didn’t also control our legal system, and all the regulators, it would be busted up for anti-trust violations. To me, it only represents itself (and its masters), not “America.” As in, at best, it represents, maybe, the richest 10% and ignores everyone else.

    Anyway . . . I do see Trump as the greater threat and the greater evil. But the Dems count on this. They count on people forever thinking they have no place else to go, so the Dems never have to change. They never have to pay any attention to the bottom 90%, because people are always afraid of the greater evil, the GOP, which only pays attention to the richest 1%.

    It’s beyond frustrating.

    #48740
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’m just hoping that we don’t end up with a third party alternative that will draw enough votes away from Hillary to give The Donald the election a la Ralph “unsafe at any speed” Nader.

    The law being for we and not for she sealed the victory for Trump.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #48741
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    The law being for we and not for she sealed the victory for Trump.

    Well if you’re talking about the emails and the private server, we wouldn’t be in any kind of trouble at all. Private citizens wouldn’t be hauled before Congress for umpteen hours, the subject of GOP witch-hunts, or investigated by the FBI for what she did. If she had been a private citizen and had done the same exact thing, no one would care.

    In the case of emails and private servers and such, government employees are actually held to much, much tougher rules and regs than we are. So, you have it backwards.

    Now, if you’re talking about other things — her war record, her use of the State Department to bust up non-profit, public sectors (the Commons) overseas for our capitalists, her complicity with the expansion of the surveillance state and so on . . . that’s a different story. But the private email server? That’s a classic nothing burger.

    Though it does point to a certain arrogance, a sense of entitlement, a tech stupidity and poor judgment that doesn’t speak well of her. But nothing she did would have been remotely subject to indictment or investigation if she had been a private citizen doing the same thing.

    I can’t stand either candidate. And, frankly, I can’t for the life of me understand why you would want Trump to be the president. Neither Clinton nor Trump should be anywhere near the White House. Ever.

    #48764
    bnw
    Blocked

    I’m not railing against 3rd party canidates,

    Yes the latent Trung effect some 16 years and counting.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

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