OL fixer-upper…draft? FA? howzatt done?

I agree. I’d love for the Rams to sign a center. That may be their focus during free agency.

Mackeyser wrote:

I think the answer for C will be among Barrett Jones, Turner or Demetrius Rhaney.

I think it’s actually more likely to be Jones. I think they like him and see him as being snake bit a lil, but he’s by far the smartest C we’ve had and he graded out well when he played. If he’s healthy, I think we may have an OL that looks like this…

LT – Greg Robinson
LG – Likely FA, but maybe high Draft pick
C – Barrett Jones, but maybe Turner
RG – Roger Saffold
RT – Joseph Barksdale

If the Snisher does THAT, this OL has the potential to turn around in a hurry without major upheaval.

That’s the way I’d go… make it a competition between the three Centers we already have who’ve played well and between Turner and Jones actually graded out well in snaps.

That leaves only LG to upgrade and that’s VERY doable. Plus… if allows us to stretch maybe a little to resign Barksdale AND we don’t have to mess with the DL and lose Langford, which would be a HUGE mistake. He’s stout and while we don’t get penetration when he subs for Donald, he was subbing for Brockers and the Brockers/Langford platoon was working like a CHARM. Now, he may need to rework his contract a bit, but if that’s the case, do THAT. But don’t just dump him. Dump Carrington and find another 3 technique for rotation if that’s the case….

Anyway, didn’t mean to get off on the DL, but that’s my take on the OL. The key is properly resolving the LG position, staying in house on the C position and signing Barksdale….imho.

For me, I’d prefer to go after a Free Agent LG. We have Robinson at LT but is still a little young, 2nd in the league, and still needs to grow. If we can get a vet LG, along with hoping either one of our young guys pans out, then we could be in decent shape. Then depth is the only concern. Yes, this is with what you have, Resigning Barksdale, and moving Saffold back to RG. I don’t want to be too young on that left side.

Giant’s approach to fixing OLines

===============================
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/12304161/new-york-giants-sign-standout-offensive-lineman-brett-jones-calgary-stampeders

One of the New York Giants’ priorities this offseason will be to improve their offensive line, and they’re not opposed to using nontraditional means to do it.

According to sources, the Giants on Tuesday are planning to sign Brett Jones, a 6-foot-2, 318-pound center who was named the top offensive lineman in the Canadian Football League in 2014.

[+] EnlargeBrett Jones
Marianne Helm/Getty ImagesCalgary Stampeders center Brett Jones was the CFL’s top rookie in 2013.

Jones is most likely a depth signing for the Giants, though it’s not out of the question that he could impress enough in the spring and summer to compete for a starting job along the interior of the offensive line.

The Giants’ ideal plan this offseason is to move 2014 second-round draft pick Weston Richburg from left guard to center and add either a guard to replace him or a big, physical tackle that would allow them to move Justin Pugh from right tackle to one of the guard spots. But the positional versatility of Richburg, Pugh and Geoff Schwartz, who should be recovered from his injuries in time for training camp, allows them to adjust that plan based on the strengths of their personnel.

The Giants were more or less pleased with their pass protection in 2014, but their line was a woeful run-blocking unit and needs to get more physical.

The 23-year-old Jones, who helped lead the Calgary Stampeders to the Grey Cup title in November, became something of a hot commodity once he made known his intentions to forego a potentially huge payday in CFL free agency (which opens Tuesday at noon ET) to try to make the jump to the NFL.

In addition to the Giants, Jones reportedly worked out for the Eagles, Steelers, Cardinals and Buccaneers.

Jones, who was the CFL’s Most Outstanding Rookie in 2013, has started one game at guard and the rest at center during his two-year career.

zn wrote:

How/where did teams get their centers?

Well I’d still like to know what round
those seven Free Agents were drafted in.

But hey if you wanna be
all lazy about it thats fine with me.
Have a White Russian and sit in your
bathrobe and post on.

Btw, to state the obvious just “getting a center”
doesnt mean the team got a “good one.”
I mean, maybe only the ones drafted in the
first and second rounds were “good”

w
v

zn wrote:

Well I’d still like to know what round
those seven Free Agents were drafted in.

But hey if you wanna be
all lazy about it thats fine with me.
Have a White Russian and sit in your
bathrobe and post on.

Btw, to state the obvious just “getting a center”
doesnt mean the team got a “good one.”
I mean, maybe only the ones drafted in the
first and second rounds were “good”

w
v

Well the trick with that is, first just list the top 12 centers in the league, and see where they came from. Another way, which takes some waiting, would be to find who is replacing their centers. We already know the Giants are looking to do that.

I defend the “when you look for how a team acquired a player, FA is FA” approach, because otherwise, what you do is erase free agency as a category. The point is how teams acquire a player. So when the Rams signed Timmerman, they got a player through free agency, not by spending a draft pick. That;s a significant distinction.

The way I see the 1st round thing btw, is that all of the 1st round centers are good (Frederick, Pouncey, Mack, Mangold). But not all the good centers are first rounders. Either way I don’t think there’s a real 1st round center this year.

…

Well i dont want to eliminate the ‘free agent’ category,
i just like to have more context about where
the players were drafted. That way, i can get a better
sense about how a free agent center is likely to do.
If the free agent centers who had been drafted below
the second round, all sucked — it tells me something.

How do we know who the top ten or twelve centers are?

w
v

zn wrote:

Well the trick with that is, first just list the top 12 centers in the league, and see where they came from.

Using PFF rankings. Why? Cause they’re there.

1 Nick Mangold NYJ … 1st round
2 Travis Frederick Dal …1st round
3 Rodney Hudson KC … 2nd round
4 Max Unger SEA … 2nd round
5 Corey Linsley GB … 5th round
6 Maurkice Pouncey PIT … 1st round
7 Brian De La Puente CHI …FA
8 Jason Kelce PHI … 6th round
9 Kory Lichtensteiger WAS … ronin, cut by Denver, developed by Wash
10 Alex Mack CLV … 1st round
11 Ryan Kalil CAR … 2nd round
12 John Sullivan Minn … 6th round

So.

1 FA.
1 cut/ronin/ie. budget pick-up
4 1st rounders
3 2nd rounders
3 5th & 6th rounders

Ok, and the free agent was Undrafted
and the ‘budget pick up’ was a 4th rounder.

So of the 12,
6 had been drafted in the first two rounds.
But 6 came from later rounds.

So, ya do have a good chance of getting
a “good” center even if you get one
who’s not a day one or day two type guy.

Though, if you want an all-pro type guy,
looks like the top Four centers
are all day one or day two guys.

w
v

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by wv.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by zn.

zn wrote:

My ideal Rams OL?

The one they field after:

Signing Barksdale.
Getting Saffold up to speed,
Coaching Robinson some.
Signing a free agent or 2.
Drafting a player or 2.
Working on the guys they have in-house already.

Putting it all in a blender.

Fielding the best 5.

I will say this. Last 2 years, the Rams had 2 different linemen in play. If Warford fell to them at 30 and Ogletree was gone, that was their pick. Last year, they were in the process of trading up for Martin when Dallas picked him.

So they had the 2 best guards of the last 2 drafts in play…which tells us a lot about their taste in guards. And btw the trade-up for Martin was in play after they took Donald. If they had pulled off the trade (it was with Baltimore) they would have had a 1st round consisting of Robinson, Donald, Martin. One for the ages.

So I will kick back with my feet up and just watch as the dust settles, pretty confident they will come away with a good line.

I know some disagree. There are less optimistic views of this than mine.

What if you could go back and choose
between Robinson and Martin — which would
you choose?

w
v

There were 22 offensive linemen who were drafted in the first three rounds last year (2014). Five in round one, six in round two, and 11 in round three.

Of the five OL players drafted in round one they started 16, 16, 16, 12, and 6 games. And Lewan Taylor, who started in only six games was injured for the last six games of the season. All five would have to be considered starters in their rookie year and are entrenched for next year..

Of the six OL players drafted in round two they started in 16, 16, 15, 14, 1, and 0 games. Four were starters. One, Cyrus Kouandjio, played in only one game then lost his starting RT job and did not play anymore even though he was healthy. He probably will be moved to guard next year. Another, guard Xavier Su’a-Filo, played in 13 games but started only one.

Of the 11 OL players drafted in round three they started in 15, 12, 9, 8, 5, 5, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0 games in 2014. It becomes clear that third round draft choices cannot be counted on to be starters their first year. That does not mean they will not develop into solid players, just not in the first year.

Based on last year it looks like if a team drafts an OL player in either round 1 or round 2 that a player has a pretty good chance of starting his first year. But if you wait until round 3 you should count on him being no better than a backup his first year. With that in mind one possibility for the Rams would be to trade down from the #10 position to pick up a second round choice, then draft OL in rounds 1, 2, and 3 and with the other round 2 pick draft a QB. That should give the Rams two starters plus a backup on the OL and a backup QB.

Mackeyser wrote:

I think the answer for C will be among Barrett Jones, Turner or Demetrius Rhaney.

I think it’s actually more likely to be Jones. I think they like him and see him as being snake bit a lil, but he’s by far the smartest C we’ve had and he graded out well when he played. If he’s healthy, I think we may have an OL that looks like this…

LT – Greg Robinson
LG – Likely FA, but maybe high Draft pick
C – Barrett Jones, but maybe Turner
RG – Roger Saffold
RT – Joseph Barksdale

If the Snisher does THAT, this OL has the potential to turn around in a hurry without major upheaval.

That’s the way I’d go… make it a competition between the three Centers we already have who’ve played well and between Turner and Jones actually graded out well in snaps.

That leaves only LG to upgrade and that’s VERY doable. Plus… if allows us to stretch maybe a little to resign Barksdale AND we don’t have to mess with the DL and lose Langford, which would be a HUGE mistake. He’s stout and while we don’t get penetration when he subs for Donald, he was subbing for Brockers and the Brockers/Langford platoon was working like a CHARM. Now, he may need to rework his contract a bit, but if that’s the case, do THAT. But don’t just dump him. Dump Carrington and find another 3 technique for rotation if that’s the case….

Anyway, didn’t mean to get off on the DL, but that’s my take on the OL. The key is properly resolving the LG position, staying in house on the C position and signing Barksdale….imho.

I dunno Mack. I’m kinda hoping for a free agent Guard AND Center
AND two more OLine picks within the first three rounds.

I mean why not make SURE they fix the damn thing.
Once and for all. Make it a strength. With depth.
They CAN do that this year.

Also pick a QB in the top three rounds
and off we go.

Its year Four.

w
v

• This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by wv.

zn wrote:

Who would you take in a do-over? Martin or Robinson.

I cant make a decision.
Martin is the safe sure-thing,
and Robinson has Hall of Fame “potential”
but so far is below Martin in productivity.

Knowing what i know now — I ‘might’
Try to trade down, pick up an extra pick,
and take Martin. If i could have gotten
an extra 2nd round pick — I’d probly take
that deal.

Then I’d have Martin and a QB.

w
v