Obama the Brat.

NewMexicoRam wrote:

bnw wrote:

Trying his best to saddle Trump with a war with Russia. So pathetic.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2531054/america-special-forces-russian-border-lithuania-obama-putin/

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What I find even more disturbing is his approach to exiting the Presidency (assuming he doesn’t do something really childish, such as start a major war and refuse to exit the Presidency because of a national emergency).

He is setting up very uncomfortable situations for Trump to “correct” and at the same time gives indication that he is going to be active in the political world and disrupt whatever he can. This has not been the tradition.
IMO, this approach is only possible because most of the traditional media support the outgoing President’s positions and viewpoints. I don’t think the media is split 50-50 like most of the country.

That problem with that view, IMO, is that Obama hasn’t done any of the things BNW claims — and the article he cites doesn’t support his assertion. He’s also claiming to be able to read Obama’s mind, know his motives, know why Obama does what he does.

That’s just projection. It has no basis in reality.

And there is zero logic or evidence behind the idea that Obama would do any of this just to get back at Trump, or that he is, in fact, trying to go to war with Russia. Though, judging from the way Trump personalizes everything, and thinks the world revolves around him and only him, I can see Trump doing this to others. That’s his history, not Obama’s.

One of the biggest legitimate criticisms of Obama is that he doesn’t go on offense. He tries far too hard to get along with others and avoid confrontations. I see him as being far too willing to compromise and back down and cave, especially to Republicans. As for going against tradition? No president-elect in my lifetime has ever been as disruptive as Trump. He’s basically decided that his presidency started immediately after the election, and not on January 21th.

Ironically, the person BNW describes isn’t Obama. It’s Trump.

bnw wrote:

Obama has had years to address Russian hacking but only does so with less than 3 weeks before Trump takes office? Obama does so by a militaristic response? Nobel Peace Prize winner too. Beyond pathetic.

BTW we as in the US lead the world in hacking. Our government demands a back door key to every software program to make it easy to “hack”. Better word is lazy. Other governments and criminals have to work to hack the programs. If our government wouldn’t insist upon the creation of the back door key then that avenue of hacking wouldn’t exist. Too bad that story doesn’t generate any interest in the MSM.

We have no idea what he’s done about cyber attacks during his tenure. That’s going to remain secret, as it will under Trump, for a long time. I would prefer sunshine as a disinfectant, with all sides and parties and corporations removed from the shadows. But that’s not how things work, tragically.

As for the most recent revelations? Obama says he didn’t think he should have put his thumb done on the scales before the election, and I believe him. This is consistent with his general history of never going on offense and seeking compromise and conciliation instead. You should thank him, not bash him. He did your candidate a major favor by basically recusing himself until now.

There are a multitude of things to criticize Obama for, and I don’t like his policies. As mentioned, he’s governed as a conservative in the true sense of that word. He’s governed, with rare exceptions, as an Eisenhower Republican. That said, this phantom (parallel universe) Obama created by the right, the one that projects the right’s own pettiness, vindictiveness, lust for power and authoritarian tendencies onto him, has always been absurd. He’s not that guy. He’s never been that guy. That’s just an invention by right-wing media and politicians.

The real Obama tends to cave. Again, Trump is the person far more likely to do what you claim Obama has done.

Billy_T wrote:

bnw wrote:

Obama has had years to address Russian hacking but only does so with less than 3 weeks before Trump takes office? Obama does so by a militaristic response? Nobel Peace Prize winner too. Beyond pathetic.

BTW we as in the US lead the world in hacking. Our government demands a back door key to every software program to make it easy to “hack”. Better word is lazy. Other governments and criminals have to work to hack the programs. If our government wouldn’t insist upon the creation of the back door key then that avenue of hacking wouldn’t exist. Too bad that story doesn’t generate any interest in the MSM.

We have no idea what he’s done about cyber attacks during his tenure. That’s going to remain secret, as it will under Trump, for a long time. I would prefer sunshine as a disinfectant, with all sides and parties and corporations removed from the shadows. But that’s not how things work, tragically.

As for the most recent revelations? Obama says he didn’t think he should have put his thumb done on the scales before the election, and I believe him. This is consistent with his general history of never going on offense and seeking compromise and conciliation instead. You should thank him, not bash him. He did your candidate a major favor by basically recusing himself until now.

There are a multitude of things to criticize Obama for, and I don’t like his policies. As mentioned, he’s governed as a conservative in the true sense of that word. He’s governed, with rare exceptions, as an Eisenhower Republican. That said, this phantom (parallel universe) Obama created by the right, the one that projects the right’s own pettiness, vindictiveness, lust for power and authoritarian tendencies onto him, has always been absurd. He’s not that guy. He’s never been that guy. That’s just an invention by right-wing media and politicians.

The real Obama tends to cave. Again, Trump is the person far more likely to do what you claim Obama has done.

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Granted, that’s your perception of both Obama and Trump.
It’s not mine. Obama has many times used the power of his office to ram things through during his Presidency. The evidence is there. The concept of “right wing” is one that is created by the media. The mainstream ideologies were actually more on the right than the left until around 1980. Then as the media’s ideology moved left, the right appeared to move more right, when really their ideology changed very little.

NewMexicoRam wrote:

Granted, that’s your perception of both Obama and Trump.
It’s not mine. Obama has many times used the power of his office to ram things through during his Presidency. The evidence is there. The concept of “right wing” is one that is created by the media. The mainstream ideologies were actually more on the right than the left until around 1980. Then as the media’s ideology moved left, the right appeared to move more right, when really their ideology changed very little.

Actually, we started using the term “right-wing” in the 18th century. It started out basically to differentiate the left from right aisles in the French Assembly. On the left were the small “d” democrats, radicals, progressives who wanted a Republic, instead of a kingdom. On the right were the conservatives who wanted to keep the aristocracy and a powerful church.

But that’s another story.

Also, you and I disagree completely about ideological drift. I think the evidence is pretty clear that mainstream ideologies moved rightward after the 1960s, decidedly, and that there was a strong “liberal” consensus before that. More Americans, for instance, identified as “liberals” from FDR up until Reagan than “conservative.” This started to change with him and now more identify as “conservative.”

I also see the Media as having moved rightward from the 1970s on, though the MSM has never been “liberal.” It’s always been owned and operated by and for the Establishment, which has, with rare exceptions, always been center-right throughout our history.

And it’s never been moreso than now, after several decades of Media consolidation. It’s owned by huge multinational corporations, and those are decidedly “conservative” in their goals and agenda.

zn wrote:

Billy_T wrote:

But on economic issues, taxes, spending, deficits, wars, the surveillance state, etc. etc. . . yes, he’s definitely governed as an old school conservative.

Absolutely. There’s no question of that. And some of us were saying exactly as much when he first got the dem nomination, and then it was driven home by who his appointments were.

This board will never have decent conversations until it’s clear to some that a leftist is not a liberal and that no leftist saw Obama as a liberal in terms of economic and foreign policy. It’s like we’re speaking german and some people keep insisting on saying “well you spanish speaking types are ALL [insert some absurd partisan-style wildly over-general empty conversation-killing stereotype].”

And I forgot another biggie: Obama actually froze Federal pay and hiring in the midst of a recession. No “liberal” would have done that. That’s boilerplate, conservative Republican nonsense.

Ironically, when Reagan faced his recession, he tripled the debt and spent like the proverbial drunken sailor to get out of it . . . and he, Bush Sr. and Dubya all added more than a million new public sector workers on their watch.

Obama? A net loss of 700K.