Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Public House › Nurses fired for not getting COVID-19 vaccine explain their rationale
- This topic has 76 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 11 months ago by zn.
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August 19, 2021 at 7:43 pm #131595ZooeyModerator
I know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.
And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.
I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.
August 20, 2021 at 12:37 pm #131602wvParticipantI know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.
And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.
I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.
========
Same.
w
vAugust 20, 2021 at 11:37 pm #131614ZooeyModeratorAug. 20, 2021, 6:13 PM PDT
By The Associated Press
GREENVILLE, S.C. — A tea party Republican who recently helped turn over the party leadership in South Carolina’s largest county has died from complications of Covid-19.Pressley Stutts died Thursday, according to other party leaders and his family. The U.S. Navy veteran was 64.
Over the summer, Stutts led a group loyal to former President Donald Trump to force the resignation of several Greenville County Republican Party leaders after a failed bid to defeat state party chairman Drew McKissick.
Stutts said he was following Trump’s wishes to kick anyone who didn’t fully support the former president out of the Republican party.
Stutts had been hospitalized with Covid-19 since late July, frequently updating his health on Facebook.
Etc.
August 20, 2021 at 11:47 pm #131615ZooeyModeratorhttps://people.com/health/south-carolina-gop-leader-pressley-stutts-dies-from-covid-19/
This one is better:
After a month-long battle, Pressley Stutts, a Republican leader in South Carolina, has died from COVID-19 at the age of 64.
Earlier this month, Stutts and his wife were rushed to the hospital due to decreasing oxygen levels. Though his wife recovered and returned home a few days later, Stutts developed pneumonia and entered the ICU, as he shared in several Facebook posts at the time. He was later placed on a ventilator.
Over the course of the pandemic — including his time in the hospital — Stutts made several social media posts about COVID-19 conspiracy theories, and once called face masks an “illusion.” In July, he also shared dismissive comments about the delta variant in a Facebook post, which has been flagged by the platform as false information, before criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris’ vaccination efforts in South Carolina.
However, on Aug. 1 after being admitted to the hospital, Stutts insisted online that he “always contended that COVID was very real.”
“It is a deadly bio-weapon perpetrated upon the people of the world by enemies foreign, and perhaps domestic.” he wrote in a lengthy post alongside photos of himself in the hospital.
He later described the virus as “hell on earth.”
August 22, 2021 at 11:54 am #131651znModeratorAugust 22, 2021 at 6:34 pm #131662ZooeyModeratorOnce upon a time, conservatives were comfortable with masking…
August 23, 2021 at 5:18 pm #131673znModeratorAugust 28, 2021 at 11:03 am #131781ZooeyModerator3 weeks into the school year, and 2% of our student body is out with Covid. And it’s August.
November promises to be exciting.
August 28, 2021 at 10:35 pm #131790ZooeyModeratorhttps://news.yahoo.com/police-captain-refused-vaccine-took-152556970.html
Business Insider
A police captain who refused the vaccine and took the anti-parasitic ivermectin to combat COVID-19 dies from the virus
Alia Shoaib
Sat, August 28, 2021, 9:13 AM·2 min readCaptain Joe Manning posted anti-vaxx messages on Facebook and took the drug ivermectin.
The CDC has said ivermectin does not help prevent or treat coronavirus and can cause severe illness.
See more stories on Insider’s business page.
A Georgia police officer who frequently posted anti-vaxx messages on Facebook and took an anti-parasitic drug instead of a vaccine has died of COVID-19.
Captain Joe Manning, 57, of the Wayne County Sheriff’s Office died on Wednesday after a short battle with the virus, according to local news station WSAV.
Sheriff Chuck Moseley said, “Captain Manning was an integral part of our family and our hearts are broken. Our love and prayers go forward to his family,” according to WSAV.”
After the announcement of his death, Facebook posts made by Manning circulated on social media.
etc.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 3 months ago by Zooey.
August 30, 2021 at 3:11 pm #131823ZooeyModeratorI know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.
And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.
I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.
========
Same.
w
vI might be recovering.
I saw two different stories this morning about dead anti-vaxxers, and my emotional response was leaning towards pity, rather than righteous indignation. Maybe there is hope for me after all.
August 30, 2021 at 5:36 pm #131828ZooeyModeratorAugust 31, 2021 at 1:10 pm #131839ZooeyModeratorI mean…there’s this:
Every death of an unvaccinated person, who didn’t get vaccinated because they didn’t trust the liberal bourgeois state to be honest with them, is a death of capitalism. Be as annoyed with them as you want to be, but those folks are victims.
— This Nigga Spittin (@MarxIsMyNigga) August 31, 2021
September 1, 2021 at 12:03 pm #131881znModerator24-year-old Chloe Mrozak from Illinois was arrested after allegedly using this fake #COVID19 vaccine card to enter Hawaii and avoid travel restrictions — it says “Maderna” instead of “Moderna” @KITV4 pic.twitter.com/1EWp3eG3OR
— Tom George (@TheTomGeorge) September 1, 2021
September 1, 2021 at 2:16 pm #131900ZooeyModeratorit says “Maderna” instead of “Moderna”
That’s because she didn’t know how to spell Fizzer.
September 1, 2021 at 3:04 pm #131904ZooeyModeratorYou know… I can understand people who find the mask mandates annoying. I can see that a reasonable person might even think Covid is overrated, and think that Shit Happens, and people die every day, and so on.
But I don’t get being angry about it. I don’t get assaulting people, and ripping off masks, or making some huge fuss about it. How many inconvenient actions do we take all the time in our lives?
Don’t cuss in front of grandma. Fill out this redundant form. Smoke outside. Whatever.
Wearing a mask just isn’t that big of a deal. It just seems to me that – when it comes down to it – it isn’t really the masks. It’s just a flashpoint, a symbol, in the “culture war.”
And it is a very ill-chosen battleground because masks really DO make a difference, and we get that you’re pissed off at the government, but…find something else to bitch about.
September 4, 2021 at 12:24 pm #131949znModeratorTexas schools have amassed more than 50,000 confirmed coronavirus cases in students in just a couple of weeks. The state is a leader in child deaths from COVID-19 with 59 as of Sept. 3. | via @TPRNews https://t.co/9ZoCzW6pb4
— Houston Public Media (@HoustonPubMedia) September 3, 2021
September 4, 2021 at 5:18 pm #131954znModeratorMy mom broke down today. There were over 80 patients in the ER last night, understaffed, and today she had to hear family tell her COVID isn’t real and that feeling burnout makes you a terrible nurse. She just kept crying and said there’s no help to be seen
— Savvy☭ (@sleepisocialist) September 3, 2021
September 4, 2021 at 6:11 pm #131956MackeyserModeratorI know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.
And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.
I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.
My thing is like the guy in the Tiktok with the wife with cancer… If you don’t trust medicine, at least be like a 7th Day Adventist and refuse all medical care.
But this bullshit about “the vaccine is a hoax” and the minute they get it, they want an outsized portion of medical care devoted to them AND to be pitied for getting it.
Fuck ALL that.
Why is the vaccine a hoax or a plot, but Remdesvir, other anti-virals and the various treatments in the hospital NOT a plot? It’s just the dumbest of the dumb and if these fucking idiots wanna play stupid games, they deserve stupid prizes. I just know that the vote for Darwin Award of the Year should go to anti-vaxxers. Difference between some idiot who jumps off a roof and dies missing the pool and an anti-vaxxer is that the level of stupid from the roof jumper isn’t contagious…
I was encouraged to learn that certain hospitals in going through triage, they are focusing on those with vaccinations. Why? Well, because they have a better chance at survival and that’s what triage is literally meant to do. It’s not ideological, it’s science.
Vaccine mandates? Yes, please.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
September 5, 2021 at 11:36 am #131975ZooeyModeratorMy thing is like the guy in the Tiktok with the wife with cancer… If you don’t trust medicine, at least be like a 7th Day Adventist and refuse all medical care.
One tiny little thing there:
7th-day Adventists don’t refuse medical care. I know. I was brought up a 7th-day Adventist. My grandpa, my dad, and one of my idiot brothers were all doctors. Loma Linda University is one of the most reputable medical universities in the country, and it is a 7th-day Adventist institution. Medical care is actually the SDA’s strong point.
You may be thinking of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who refuse blood transfusions, or Christian Scientists, who have made headlines refusing health care. In the latter case, though, their official belief is that prayer works better when there is no medical interference (which has led to people “proving” their faith), but most adherents do access health care for most needs.
September 5, 2021 at 8:45 pm #131983znModeratorcan't stop staring in disbelief at this map of current global covid hot spots — the U.S., the wealthiest country in the world, where vaccines are freely available, has the highest per capita case rate right now of any country except Mongolia pic.twitter.com/Sy2iL4JX3s
— Adam Sternbergh (@sternbergh) September 3, 2021
September 6, 2021 at 1:37 am #131988znModeratorSeptember 7, 2021 at 12:08 am #132023MackeyserModeratorMy thing is like the guy in the Tiktok with the wife with cancer… If you don’t trust medicine, at least be like a 7th Day Adventist and refuse all medical care.
One tiny little thing there:
7th-day Adventists don’t refuse medical care. I know. I was brought up a 7th-day Adventist. My grandpa, my dad, and one of my idiot brothers were all doctors. Loma Linda University is one of the most reputable medical universities in the country, and it is a 7th-day Adventist institution. Medical care is actually the SDA’s strong point.
You may be thinking of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who refuse blood transfusions, or Christian Scientists, who have made headlines refusing health care. In the latter case, though, their official belief is that prayer works better when there is no medical interference (which has led to people “proving” their faith), but most adherents do access health care for most needs.
Yes, you’re right. I did mean Christian Scientists…
I feel so disconnected from the Christian community these days.
To say I HATE the people who by the Bible are NOT Christians, but seem in charge of all things Christian is an understatement… sorta like saying one of those 1 Million Scoville peppers is a tad hot…
Mea culpa. Also, good catch. I’d rather be corrected than get something wrong, even if by accident, and have it left.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
September 9, 2021 at 2:56 am #132046znModerator“Well over a quarter-million children contracted COVID just last week, according to a joint report from the Children's Hospital Association & the AAP which tracks all cases at the state level. It is the highest number of child COVID cases ever reported.” https://t.co/IKuRaAKCqd
— Laura Miers (@LauraMiers) September 7, 2021
September 10, 2021 at 9:29 pm #132066znModeratorBREAKING: The civil rights arm of the U.S. Department of Education opens investigation into Florida’s mask mandate ban in schools.
More on that announcement here: pic.twitter.com/gBhhxjHxoi
— Ana Ceballos (@anaceballos_) September 10, 2021
September 14, 2021 at 3:32 am #132169znModeratorSeptember 16, 2021 at 4:19 pm #132242znModeratorSeptember 17, 2021 at 1:21 am #132259znModeratorOverwhelmed With COVID Patients, Oregon Hospitals Postpone Surgeries And Cancer Care https://t.co/sg15N3MPfS
— Matt Murphy (@MattMurph24) September 17, 2021
September 23, 2021 at 2:53 pm #132433znModeratorFederal Court: Anti-Vaxxers Do Not Have a Constitutional or Statutory Right to Endanger Everyone Else
Today we discuss a putative class action in which the named plaintiffs are a registered nurse who refuses to take a basic precaution to protect her vulnerable patients and a mother who is more interested in displaying her livestock than protecting her neighbors. Brought on behalf of all New Mexico residents who are equally selfish, the plaintiffs sought an injunction barring the state from enforcing a public health order that requires (with limited exceptions) all hospital, nursing-home, assisted-living-facility, adult-day-care, rehabilitation-facility, and prison workers, all employees of the governor’s office, and all who would enter the New Mexico State Fair grounds to be vaccinated against the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19. The plaintiffs asserted various constitutional and statutory claims. In a thorough and trenchant decision, Valdez v. Grisham, — F. Supp. 3d —-, 2021 WL 4145746 (D.N.M. 2021), a federal district court rejected them all. That is consistent with long-standing precedent and other recent decisions—as we discussed here, here, and here.
The plaintiffs’ first claim was that requiring them to be vaccinated with “experimental” vaccines violated the FDCA. The claim was predicated on the fact that, at the time suit was filed, the three SARS-CoV-2 vaccines available in the United States—the Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines—had not received full FDA approval and were instead being distributed and administered under Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs). The plaintiffs claimed that requiring them to be vaccinated violated the terms of the vaccines’ EUAs, which require that those receiving each vaccine be informed of its “benefits and risks” and “of the option to accept or refuse” its administration. 2021 WL 4145746, at *4.
The court rejected the plaintiffs’ FDCA claim.
Implicitly responding to the plaintiffs’ assertion that the vaccines were “experimental,” the court recited at the outset both the extensive testing that each had undergone before the EUAs were granted, including “at least one well-designed Phase 3 clinical trial that demonstrate[d] the vaccine’s safety and efficacy in a clear and compelling manner,” and the fact that “[c]omprehensive data collected since the three vaccines received EUA status demonstrates that they are safe and highly effective in preventing infection and severe illness, and that serious adverse side effects from the vaccines are exceedingly rare.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *1. The court further observed that, “despite Plaintiffs’ protestation to the contrary, the FDA has now given its full approval—not just emergency use authorization—to the Pfizer vaccine” for administration to those 16 and older. Id. at *4. That did not moot the plaintiffs’ statutory claim, however, because the livestock-display-over-human-health plaintiff asserted the claim on behalf of not only herself but also her 11- and 12-year-old children, who were also keen to “show[] their animals” at the state fair. Id. at *2.
Addressing the merits of the plaintiffs’ FDCA claim, the court found that there were none. It explained that although the EUAs issued pursuant to the FDCA require “medical providers” administering the vaccines to inform would-be recipients of the risks associated with each vaccine and their right to refuse it, the EUAs do not prohibit the state from requiring individuals, duly informed by their medical providers, to be vaccinated. Id. at *4. In so holding, the court cited both Bridges v. Houston Methodist Hosp., 2021 WL 2399994, at *2 (S.D. Tex. 2021), which rejected a nearly-identical anti-vaxxer claim on the ground that the FDCA “neither expands nor restricts the responsibilities of private employers” and “does not confer a private opportunity to sue the government,” and a recent Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel memorandum opinion concluding that the FDCA’s informed-consent provision “specifies only that certain information be provided to potential vaccine recipients and does not prohibit entities from imposing vaccination requirements.”
Having dispensed with their statutory claim, the court proceeded to dispense with the plaintiffs’ constitutional claims—brought under the Due Process, Equal Protection, and Contract Clauses.
Asserting a violation of their right to substantive due process, the plaintiffs alleged that they “‘have [constitutionally] protected liberty interests’ ‘in their right to live without governmental interference,’ their right ‘to bodily integrity,’ their right ‘to raise their children as they see fit,’ and their right ‘to engage in their chosen professions,’ and that because the state’s public health order is ‘not narrowly tailored,’ it violates these substantive due process rights.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5.
Relying on well-established constitutional precedent, the court explained that a two-part analytic framework applies when a legislative enactment or executive action is challenged on substantive due-process grounds. The first step is to identify the “fundamental liberty interest” purportedly at issue. The second step is to determine whether that interest “is ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition’ and ‘implicit in the concept of ordered liberty, such that neither liberty nor justice would exist if they were sacrificed.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5 (indirectly quoting Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702, 720–21 (1997)). If the asserted liberty interest meets that standard, then the government may not infringe it “‘unless the infringement is narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.’” Id. (quoting Glucksberg, 521 U.S. at 721). If, by contrast, the legislative enactment or executive action “does not implicate a fundamental right,” the action is permissible if it “bear
a rational relationship to a legitimate government interest.” Id. (quotation marks omitted).The court found that the plaintiffs did “not explain how the rights allegedly violated by the [public health order] are fundamental.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5. “ndeed nowhere,” said the court, did the plaintiffs “address how the right to work in a hospital or attend the State Fair, unvaccinated and during a pandemic, is ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.’” Id.
In their request for preliminary relief, the plaintiffs relied on “the right to ‘engage in their chosen profession.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5. That, however, was no help to them, the court held, because “the Tenth Circuit”—the circuit within which the court sits—”has unequivocally held that the ‘right to practice in [one’s] chosen profession … does not invoke heightened scrutiny.’” Id. (quoting Guttman v. Khalsa, 669 F.3d 1101, 1118 (10th Cir. 2012)). Thus, said the court, “while Plaintiffs may ‘have a right to engage in their chosen professions,’ governmental infringement on this right will be “‘presumed to be valid’” so long as it is “‘rationally related to a legitimate state interest.”’” Id. (quoting Klaassen v. Trustees of Indiana Univ., 2021 WL 3073926, at *17 (N.D. Ind. 2021), in turn quoting City of Cleburne v. Cleburne Living Ctr., 473 U.S. 432, 440 (1985)).
Moreover, said the court, “federal courts have consistently held that vaccine mandates do not implicate a fundamental right and that rational basis review therefore applies in determining the constitutionality of such mandates.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5. Applying that standard, the court rejected the plaintiffs’ substantive due-process claim, concluding that “[t]he vaccination requirements set forth in the [New Mexico public health order], … grounded in medicine and science, are rationally related to [the state’s] legitimate purpose of protecting our community ‘against an epidemic of disease [that] threatens the safety of its members.’” Id. at *8 (quoting Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 27 (1905)).
As Bexis did last month, the Valdez court explained that “[w]ith its decision in Jacobson”—which upheld “a Cambridge, Massachusetts regulation that required all adult inhabitants of that city, without exception, to be vaccinated against smallpox”—“the Supreme Court ‘settled that it is within the police power of a state to provide for compulsory vaccination.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *6–7 (quoting Zucht v. King, 260 U.S. 174, 176 (1922)).
All that is necessary for state action to survive the “rational basis test” is that it bear “a rational relationship to a legitimate government interest.” Glucksberg, 521 U.S. at 721. The Valdez court found that New Mexico’s vaccination requirements did more than that, concluding that “[t]he governmental purpose of stemming the spread of COVID-19, especially in the wake of the Delta variant, is not only legitimate, but is unquestionably a compelling interest.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *7 (quotation marks omitted).
Having rejected plaintiffs’ substantive-due-process claim on the ground that that the New Mexico public health order requiring certain people to be vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 “meets the rational basis test” (2021 WL 4145746, at *8), the Valdez court quickly disposed of the plaintiffs’ remaining constitutional claims. It concluded that the plaintiffs’ equal-protection, procedural-due-process, and impairment-of-contract claims were also subject to rational-basis review and that they therefore failed for the same reasons as the plaintiffs’ substantive-due-process claim. Id. at *9–11.
Finding that plaintiffs were unlikely to prevail on the merits of their claims, and that the remaining equitable factors likewise cut squarely against them, the court denied the preliminary injunction that the plaintiffs requested.
Onward to full vaccination.
September 26, 2021 at 6:35 am #132479znModeratorThis is strangely comforting giving the incredible since of mental deterioration I've experienced since having COVID. A loss of brain volume is no joke. https://t.co/5C2BDfwZJP
— Mike McHargue (@mikemchargue) September 25, 2021
September 26, 2021 at 7:38 pm #132495znModeratorThe US has of the highest Covid mortality rates in the world. Mississippi has a Covid mortality rate second only to Botswana. National borders inc Canada are closed to us. What we're suffering from is not a lack of vaccine. We produce it. It's rightwing reality denial.
— Gail McGowan Mellor (@authorpendragon) September 26, 2021
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