Nurses fired for not getting COVID-19 vaccine explain their rationale

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  • #131595
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.

    And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.

    I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.

    #131602
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.

    And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.

    I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.

    ========

    Same.

    w
    v

    #131614
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/south-carolina-county-republican-party-leader-dies-covid-19-n1277355

    Aug. 20, 2021, 6:13 PM PDT
    By The Associated Press
    GREENVILLE, S.C. — A tea party Republican who recently helped turn over the party leadership in South Carolina’s largest county has died from complications of Covid-19.

    Pressley Stutts died Thursday, according to other party leaders and his family. The U.S. Navy veteran was 64.

    Over the summer, Stutts led a group loyal to former President Donald Trump to force the resignation of several Greenville County Republican Party leaders after a failed bid to defeat state party chairman Drew McKissick.

    Stutts said he was following Trump’s wishes to kick anyone who didn’t fully support the former president out of the Republican party.

    Stutts had been hospitalized with Covid-19 since late July, frequently updating his health on Facebook.

    Etc.

    #131615
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    https://people.com/health/south-carolina-gop-leader-pressley-stutts-dies-from-covid-19/

    This one is better:

    After a month-long battle, Pressley Stutts, a Republican leader in South Carolina, has died from COVID-19 at the age of 64.

    Earlier this month, Stutts and his wife were rushed to the hospital due to decreasing oxygen levels. Though his wife recovered and returned home a few days later, Stutts developed pneumonia and entered the ICU, as he shared in several Facebook posts at the time. He was later placed on a ventilator.

    Over the course of the pandemic — including his time in the hospital — Stutts made several social media posts about COVID-19 conspiracy theories, and once called face masks an “illusion.” In July, he also shared dismissive comments about the delta variant in a Facebook post, which has been flagged by the platform as false information, before criticizing Vice President Kamala Harris’ vaccination efforts in South Carolina.

    However, on Aug. 1 after being admitted to the hospital, Stutts insisted online that he “always contended that COVID was very real.”

    “It is a deadly bio-weapon perpetrated upon the people of the world by enemies foreign, and perhaps domestic.” he wrote in a lengthy post alongside photos of himself in the hospital.

    He later described the virus as “hell on earth.”

    #131651
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #131662
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    Once upon a time, conservatives were comfortable with masking…

    #131673
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #131781
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    3 weeks into the school year, and 2% of our student body is out with Covid. And it’s August.

    November promises to be exciting.

    #131790
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    https://news.yahoo.com/police-captain-refused-vaccine-took-152556970.html

    Business Insider
    A police captain who refused the vaccine and took the anti-parasitic ivermectin to combat COVID-19 dies from the virus
    Alia Shoaib
    Sat, August 28, 2021, 9:13 AM·2 min read

    Captain Joe Manning posted anti-vaxx messages on Facebook and took the drug ivermectin.

    The CDC has said ivermectin does not help prevent or treat coronavirus and can cause severe illness.

    See more stories on Insider’s business page.

    A Georgia police officer who frequently posted anti-vaxx messages on Facebook and took an anti-parasitic drug instead of a vaccine has died of COVID-19.

    Captain Joe Manning, 57, of the Wayne County Sheriff’s Office died on Wednesday after a short battle with the virus, according to local news station WSAV.

    Sheriff Chuck Moseley said, “Captain Manning was an integral part of our family and our hearts are broken. Our love and prayers go forward to his family,” according to WSAV.”

    After the announcement of his death, Facebook posts made by Manning circulated on social media.

    etc.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Avatar photoZooey.
    #131823
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.

    And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.

    I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.

    ========

    Same.

    w
    v

    I might be recovering.

    I saw two different stories this morning about dead anti-vaxxers, and my emotional response was leaning towards pity, rather than righteous indignation. Maybe there is hope for me after all.

    #131828
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    #131839
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I mean…there’s this:

    #131881
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #131900
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    it says “Maderna” instead of “Moderna”

    That’s because she didn’t know how to spell Fizzer.

    #131904
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    You know… I can understand people who find the mask mandates annoying. I can see that a reasonable person might even think Covid is overrated, and think that Shit Happens, and people die every day, and so on.

    But I don’t get being angry about it. I don’t get assaulting people, and ripping off masks, or making some huge fuss about it. How many inconvenient actions do we take all the time in our lives?

    Don’t cuss in front of grandma. Fill out this redundant form. Smoke outside. Whatever.

    Wearing a mask just isn’t that big of a deal. It just seems to me that – when it comes down to it – it isn’t really the masks. It’s just a flashpoint, a symbol, in the “culture war.”

    And it is a very ill-chosen battleground because masks really DO make a difference, and we get that you’re pissed off at the government, but…find something else to bitch about.

    #131949
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #131954
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #131956
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    I know I’m a bad person, but I have no sympathy for anyone who gets this now if they are not vaccinated.

    And for anyone who gets it and has led cheerleading against masks and/or vax…seriously…fuck them.

    I’m sorry. I know I should be bigger than that, but I’m not.

    My thing is like the guy in the Tiktok with the wife with cancer… If you don’t trust medicine, at least be like a 7th Day Adventist and refuse all medical care.

    But this bullshit about “the vaccine is a hoax” and the minute they get it, they want an outsized portion of medical care devoted to them AND to be pitied for getting it.

    Fuck ALL that.

    Why is the vaccine a hoax or a plot, but Remdesvir, other anti-virals and the various treatments in the hospital NOT a plot? It’s just the dumbest of the dumb and if these fucking idiots wanna play stupid games, they deserve stupid prizes. I just know that the vote for Darwin Award of the Year should go to anti-vaxxers. Difference between some idiot who jumps off a roof and dies missing the pool and an anti-vaxxer is that the level of stupid from the roof jumper isn’t contagious…

    I was encouraged to learn that certain hospitals in going through triage, they are focusing on those with vaccinations. Why? Well, because they have a better chance at survival and that’s what triage is literally meant to do. It’s not ideological, it’s science.

    Vaccine mandates? Yes, please.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #131975
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    My thing is like the guy in the Tiktok with the wife with cancer… If you don’t trust medicine, at least be like a 7th Day Adventist and refuse all medical care.

    One tiny little thing there:

    7th-day Adventists don’t refuse medical care. I know. I was brought up a 7th-day Adventist. My grandpa, my dad, and one of my idiot brothers were all doctors. Loma Linda University is one of the most reputable medical universities in the country, and it is a 7th-day Adventist institution. Medical care is actually the SDA’s strong point.

    You may be thinking of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who refuse blood transfusions, or Christian Scientists, who have made headlines refusing health care. In the latter case, though, their official belief is that prayer works better when there is no medical interference (which has led to people “proving” their faith), but most adherents do access health care for most needs.

    #131983
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #131988
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132023
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    My thing is like the guy in the Tiktok with the wife with cancer… If you don’t trust medicine, at least be like a 7th Day Adventist and refuse all medical care.

    One tiny little thing there:

    7th-day Adventists don’t refuse medical care. I know. I was brought up a 7th-day Adventist. My grandpa, my dad, and one of my idiot brothers were all doctors. Loma Linda University is one of the most reputable medical universities in the country, and it is a 7th-day Adventist institution. Medical care is actually the SDA’s strong point.

    You may be thinking of Jehovah’s Witnesses, who refuse blood transfusions, or Christian Scientists, who have made headlines refusing health care. In the latter case, though, their official belief is that prayer works better when there is no medical interference (which has led to people “proving” their faith), but most adherents do access health care for most needs.

    Yes, you’re right. I did mean Christian Scientists…

    I feel so disconnected from the Christian community these days.

    To say I HATE the people who by the Bible are NOT Christians, but seem in charge of all things Christian is an understatement… sorta like saying one of those 1 Million Scoville peppers is a tad hot…

    Mea culpa. Also, good catch. I’d rather be corrected than get something wrong, even if by accident, and have it left.

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #132046
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132066
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132169
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132242
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132259
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132433
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Federal Court: Anti-Vaxxers Do Not Have a Constitutional or Statutory Right to Endanger Everyone Else

    * https://www.druganddevicelawblog.com/2021/09/federal-court-anti-vaxxers-do-not-have-a-constitutional-or-statutory-right-to-endanger-everyone-else.html

    Today we discuss a putative class action in which the named plaintiffs are a registered nurse who refuses to take a basic precaution to protect her vulnerable patients and a mother who is more interested in displaying her livestock than protecting her neighbors. Brought on behalf of all New Mexico residents who are equally selfish, the plaintiffs sought an injunction barring the state from enforcing a public health order that requires (with limited exceptions) all hospital, nursing-home, assisted-living-facility, adult-day-care, rehabilitation-facility, and prison workers, all employees of the governor’s office, and all who would enter the New Mexico State Fair grounds to be vaccinated against the SARS-CoV-2 virus, which causes COVID-19. The plaintiffs asserted various constitutional and statutory claims. In a thorough and trenchant decision, Valdez v. Grisham, — F. Supp. 3d —-, 2021 WL 4145746 (D.N.M. 2021), a federal district court rejected them all. That is consistent with long-standing precedent and other recent decisions—as we discussed here, here, and here.

    The plaintiffs’ first claim was that requiring them to be vaccinated with “experimental” vaccines violated the FDCA. The claim was predicated on the fact that, at the time suit was filed, the three SARS-CoV-2 vaccines available in the United States—the Pfizer/BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines—had not received full FDA approval and were instead being distributed and administered under Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs). The plaintiffs claimed that requiring them to be vaccinated violated the terms of the vaccines’ EUAs, which require that those receiving each vaccine be informed of its “benefits and risks” and “of the option to accept or refuse” its administration. 2021 WL 4145746, at *4.

    The court rejected the plaintiffs’ FDCA claim.

    Implicitly responding to the plaintiffs’ assertion that the vaccines were “experimental,” the court recited at the outset both the extensive testing that each had undergone before the EUAs were granted, including “at least one well-designed Phase 3 clinical trial that demonstrate[d] the vaccine’s safety and efficacy in a clear and compelling manner,” and the fact that “[c]omprehensive data collected since the three vaccines received EUA status demonstrates that they are safe and highly effective in preventing infection and severe illness, and that serious adverse side effects from the vaccines are exceedingly rare.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *1. The court further observed that, “despite Plaintiffs’ protestation to the contrary, the FDA has now given its full approval—not just emergency use authorization—to the Pfizer vaccine” for administration to those 16 and older. Id. at *4. That did not moot the plaintiffs’ statutory claim, however, because the livestock-display-over-human-health plaintiff asserted the claim on behalf of not only herself but also her 11- and 12-year-old children, who were also keen to “show[] their animals” at the state fair. Id. at *2.

    Addressing the merits of the plaintiffs’ FDCA claim, the court found that there were none. It explained that although the EUAs issued pursuant to the FDCA require “medical providers” administering the vaccines to inform would-be recipients of the risks associated with each vaccine and their right to refuse it, the EUAs do not prohibit the state from requiring individuals, duly informed by their medical providers, to be vaccinated. Id. at *4. In so holding, the court cited both Bridges v. Houston Methodist Hosp., 2021 WL 2399994, at *2 (S.D. Tex. 2021), which rejected a nearly-identical anti-vaxxer claim on the ground that the FDCA “neither expands nor restricts the responsibilities of private employers” and “does not confer a private opportunity to sue the government,” and a recent Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel memorandum opinion concluding that the FDCA’s informed-consent provision “specifies only that certain information be provided to potential vaccine recipients and does not prohibit entities from imposing vaccination requirements.”

    Having dispensed with their statutory claim, the court proceeded to dispense with the plaintiffs’ constitutional claims—brought under the Due Process, Equal Protection, and Contract Clauses.

    Asserting a violation of their right to substantive due process, the plaintiffs alleged that they “‘have [constitutionally] protected liberty interests’ ‘in their right to live without governmental interference,’ their right ‘to bodily integrity,’ their right ‘to raise their children as they see fit,’ and their right ‘to engage in their chosen professions,’ and that because the state’s public health order is ‘not narrowly tailored,’ it violates these substantive due process rights.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5.

    Relying on well-established constitutional precedent, the court explained that a two-part analytic framework applies when a legislative enactment or executive action is challenged on substantive due-process grounds. The first step is to identify the “fundamental liberty interest” purportedly at issue. The second step is to determine whether that interest “is ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition’ and ‘implicit in the concept of ordered liberty, such that neither liberty nor justice would exist if they were sacrificed.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5 (indirectly quoting Washington v. Glucksberg, 521 U.S. 702, 720–21 (1997)). If the asserted liberty interest meets that standard, then the government may not infringe it “‘unless the infringement is narrowly tailored to serve a compelling state interest.’” Id. (quoting Glucksberg, 521 U.S. at 721). If, by contrast, the legislative enactment or executive action “does not implicate a fundamental right,” the action is permissible if it “bear a rational relationship to a legitimate government interest.” Id. (quotation marks omitted).

    The court found that the plaintiffs did “not explain how the rights allegedly violated by the [public health order] are fundamental.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5. “ndeed nowhere,” said the court, did the plaintiffs “address how the right to work in a hospital or attend the State Fair, unvaccinated and during a pandemic, is ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.’” Id.

    In their request for preliminary relief, the plaintiffs relied on “the right to ‘engage in their chosen profession.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5. That, however, was no help to them, the court held, because “the Tenth Circuit”—the circuit within which the court sits—”has unequivocally held that the ‘right to practice in [one’s] chosen profession … does not invoke heightened scrutiny.’” Id. (quoting Guttman v. Khalsa, 669 F.3d 1101, 1118 (10th Cir. 2012)). Thus, said the court, “while Plaintiffs may ‘have a right to engage in their chosen professions,’ governmental infringement on this right will be “‘presumed to be valid’” so long as it is “‘rationally related to a legitimate state interest.”’” Id. (quoting Klaassen v. Trustees of Indiana Univ., 2021 WL 3073926, at *17 (N.D. Ind. 2021), in turn quoting City of Cleburne v. Cleburne Living Ctr., 473 U.S. 432, 440 (1985)).

    Moreover, said the court, “federal courts have consistently held that vaccine mandates do not implicate a fundamental right and that rational basis review therefore applies in determining the constitutionality of such mandates.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *5. Applying that standard, the court rejected the plaintiffs’ substantive due-process claim, concluding that “[t]he vaccination requirements set forth in the [New Mexico public health order], … grounded in medicine and science, are rationally related to [the state’s] legitimate purpose of protecting our community ‘against an epidemic of disease [that] threatens the safety of its members.’” Id. at *8 (quoting Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11, 27 (1905)).

    As Bexis did last month, the Valdez court explained that “[w]ith its decision in Jacobson”—which upheld “a Cambridge, Massachusetts regulation that required all adult inhabitants of that city, without exception, to be vaccinated against smallpox”—“the Supreme Court ‘settled that it is within the police power of a state to provide for compulsory vaccination.’” 2021 WL 4145746, at *6–7 (quoting Zucht v. King, 260 U.S. 174, 176 (1922)).

    All that is necessary for state action to survive the “rational basis test” is that it bear “a rational relationship to a legitimate government interest.” Glucksberg, 521 U.S. at 721. The Valdez court found that New Mexico’s vaccination requirements did more than that, concluding that “[t]he governmental purpose of stemming the spread of COVID-19, especially in the wake of the Delta variant, is not only legitimate, but is unquestionably a compelling interest.” 2021 WL 4145746, at *7 (quotation marks omitted).

    Having rejected plaintiffs’ substantive-due-process claim on the ground that that the New Mexico public health order requiring certain people to be vaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 “meets the rational basis test” (2021 WL 4145746, at *8), the Valdez court quickly disposed of the plaintiffs’ remaining constitutional claims. It concluded that the plaintiffs’ equal-protection, procedural-due-process, and impairment-of-contract claims were also subject to rational-basis review and that they therefore failed for the same reasons as the plaintiffs’ substantive-due-process claim. Id. at *9–11.

    Finding that plaintiffs were unlikely to prevail on the merits of their claims, and that the remaining equitable factors likewise cut squarely against them, the court denied the preliminary injunction that the plaintiffs requested.

    Onward to full vaccination.

    #132479
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    #132495
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

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