New England … praise and blame

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  • #17278
    Winnbrad
    Participant

    So how come Bradford never did that? Hmmm?

    See, no competitive edge.

    We all know Bradford doesn’t have good ball awareness.

    #17291
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Peter King

    Deflategate: The Pressure is Building

    http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/21/patriots-tom-brady-bill-belichick-deflategate-ball-controversy/

    Don’t expect discipline before Super Bowl Sunday—the NFL desperately needs to get this one right. But if anyone in the Patriots organization is found to have tampered with a game ball, the punishment will be severe

    Unless the NFL can find incontrovertible evidence that someone with the Patriots ordered air taken out of footballs Sunday in Foxboro, it’s more likely than not that commissioner Roger Goodell will defer ruling on the case until after the Super Bowl. Absent clear proof in the next few days that the Patriots cheated, there’s a simple reason: There is no rush. If Goodell decides that part of the sanction would be taking draft picks from the Patriots, the draft comes 12-and-a-half weeks after the Super Bowl, giving the league time after the season to investigate more thoroughly, particularly if that investigation does not have a clear conclusion by, say, this Friday. And it’s hugely important to the league to make the right decision here, not a more expeditious one.

    Regarding the off-with-their-heads reaction: It’s too early to say what the league might do in this case. But I do know this: This has set off alarm bells inside the NFL’s Park Avenue offices in Manhattan. All hands are on deck, and there is an urgency about doing this investigation right, for the obvious right reasons about the integrity of the rules and a secondary reason: The NFL doesn’t want to risk botching this investigation and issuing a ruling it later has to amend, as happened in the Ray Rice case.

    Plus, teams are allowed to put up a defense when charged with an offense affecting the competitive balance of the game. The NFL constitution and bylaws mandate that the commissioner give the team in question a proper hearing so that the team can contest the charges if it chooses. Remember the Saints’ Bountygate charges? There were actually two investigations, covering several months; the first found insufficient evidence to charge the Saints with any football offenses, but the second look—after the league used forensic methods to analyze emails and text messages and communications inside the Saints organization—resulted in heavy sanctions against coach Sean Payton and GM Mickey Loomis, and the loss of two draft picks.

    That is why the NFL will be—and should be—deliberate in the investigation of whether someone connected with the New England Patriots doctored the footballs either before or during the AFC Championship Game.

    Three points are important to keep in mind as this story develops:

    1. I think it’s fair to assume—though it hasn’t been confirmed by the league—that the Patriots’ footballs that were tested at halftime Sunday had less air, and the Colts’ footballs were all found to be legal.
    Connect the dots. Chris Mortensen reported Tuesday that 11 of 12 Patriots football had approximately two pounds less pressure per square inch than the mandated 12.5 psi required by the NFL. In other words, the Patriots’ footballs were softer than allowed by rule. The obvious deduction is that all the balls, for both teams, were measured at halftime, and that New England’s footballs were found to be softer—or else the league would be investigating Indianapolis as well, and the league is clearly not doing that. This is important because it would render moot the theory going around that the cold weather could have caused the air pressure in the balls to decrease. It was the same weather on both sidelines.

    2. There’s a difference that all these ex-quarterbacks are not taking into account when they say, “Every team doctors the footballs.”
    Former quarterback Matt Leinart tweeted something Wednesday that many quarterbacks were saying in different ways: “Every team tampers with the football. Ask any QB in the league, this is ridiculous!!”

    Every quarterback can tamper with the 12 footballs assigned to his team in the days before the game. In the NFL, each team is allowed weekly to break in 12 new footballs as it sees fit, according to the quarterback’s preference. That includes taking the shine and slipperiness off the new balls, and compressing them and working them in to soften the leather. By rule, those 12 footballs are then delivered to the officiating crew on site 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game begins.

    At that point the head linesman inspects each football with one or more members of his crew. If need be, the officials will clean off the balls. Then they will insert a needle into the balls, one by one, to ensure the balls are inflated to the proper pressure: between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. If a ball is underinflated, an electric pump is used to fill it to the requisite level. Then all 12 balls are marked by silver Sharpie with a referee’s personal preference of a mark—Gene Steratore’s crew uses the letter “L,” for Steratore’s fiancée, Lisa—and put back into the bag, and zipped. The bags are handed to the ballboys minutes before the opening kickoff. If it’s raining, or bad weather is on the way, the officials might tell the ballboys to change the ball on every play, whether it hits the ground on the previous play or not.

    To sum up: Yes, the quarterback or his equipment staff can break in the balls in whatever way they want a couple of days before the game. But no, the quarterback cannot dictate the level of air pressure in the ball. Or at least he cannot do it legally. And the low air pressure in the Patriots’ footballs is why this is a story.

    3. If Belichick is found to be culpable, I think Goodell will come down hard on him. It’s early. We don’t yet know where the trail on this investigation will lead. So this is presuming a lot. But in reporting a Goodell story four years ago, this anecdote stuck out to me. You’ll recall that after the 2007 Spygate investigation into the Patriots’ videotaping of opposing coaches’ signals that Goodell fined Belichick $500,000 and the franchise an additional $250,000, and he docked New England a first-round draft pick. As part of the discipline, Belichick would have to make a verbal apology in front of the press that week. Instead, the coach issued a printed statement and refused to answer any questions on the topic. “I was given assurances that [Belichick] would tell his side of the story,” Goodell said at the time. “He went out and stonewalled the press. I feel like I was deceived.”

    Belichick said at the time, “I did not make any assurances about thoroughly discussing the subject publicly. I said I would address it following the league’s review. I then did that in a way I thought was appropriate. I don’t think that was deceptive.’’

    Goodell did. I doubt there’s much benefit-of-the-doubt here if Goodell finds that Belichick was involved in the deflating.

    As to what difference it made in a 45-7 game that the balls were deflated, seeing that the Patriots exploded for 21 third-quarter points with the balls evidently at proper inflation: irrelevant. Rules are rules, and if the Patriots broke a clear and indisputable rule, they must be sanctioned for it. The fact that the footballs made no apparent difference in the Patriots’ offensive performance doesn’t matter.

    As to what would be a proper punishment if the Patriots are found guilty, I think it’s too early to say, because we don’t know everything about the story yet. But I believe if Belichick is found to be behind it, he should be suspended for some period of 2015. It’s hard to say for how long without knowing the full story, and there will be time to find that out.

    And going forward, what should the league do differently in the future? Two things, I believe. One: Make the ballboys league employees, the same way clock operators and other ancillary game-day employees with influence on the game are. Put the ballboys through background checks—perhaps not as thorough as the checks game officials must go through, but just enough to ensure that their performance will not be compromised. Two: Tighten the chain-of-command between the officiating crew and the ballboys. I would suggest in the future that two of the game officials be assigned to personally deliver the bag of 12 footballs to each sideline, say, two minutes before the opening kickoff. I would also say that each ballboy should pass through a metal detector before the game and after halftime, to be sure he is not carrying any device that could be used to tamper with the air pressure of the footballs.

    That all sounds pretty cloak-and-dagger. But the league should use this lapse in football protocol to do everything it can to see this is never an issue again.

    #17295
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Good stuff. Interesting.

    I suppose the league is not going to want
    the Pats to win now. Ya know. Just
    in case it turns out the Pats are
    intentional-deflators

    w
    v

    #17330
    Avatar photoEternal Ramnation
    Participant

    Ridiculous to wait till after the Super Bowl,might not have affected the Colts game but the Ravens game very well could have.The goal of any cheating would have been to get to the Super Bowl if allowed to play in the Super Bowl anyway why not cheat is the message that sends

    #17332
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <span class=”d4pbbc-font-color” style=”color: blue”>Ridiculous to wait till after the Super Bowl,might not have affected the Colts game but the Ravens game very well could have.The goal of any cheating would have been to get to the Super Bowl if allowed to play in the Super Bowl anyway why not cheat is the message that sends</span>

    Well I would think the most ‘likely’ result of the investigation
    is that no-one will be able to prove anything.
    I mean, how are they gonna find out what happened
    if no-one confesses? My guess is
    there will be no way to find out who
    did what.

    w
    v

    #17334
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

    “….The 2014 Patriots were just the 3rd team in the last 25 years to never have lost a fumble at home! The biggest difference between the Patriots and the other 2 teams who did it was that New England ran between 150 and 200 MORE plays this year than those teams did in the years they had zero home fumbles, making the Patriots stand alone in this unique statistic.

    Based on the desire to incorporate full season data (not just home games, as a team theoretically bring “doctored footballs” with them on the road) I performed the following analysis:

    I looked at the last 5 years.of data (since 2010) and examined TOTAL FUMBLES in all games (as well as fumbles/game) but more importantly, TOTAL OFFENSIVE PLAYS RUN. Thus, we can to determine average PLAYS per FUMBLE, a much more valuable statistic. The results are displayed in the chart below. Keep in mind, this is for all games since 2010, regardless of indoors, outdoors, weather, site, etc. EVERYTHING…

    One can CLEARLY SEE the Patriots, visually, are off the chart. There is no other team even close to being near to their rate of 187 offensive plays (passes+rushes+sacks) per fumble. The league average is 105 plays/fumble. Most teams are within 21 plays of that number.

    I spoke with a data scientist who I know from work on the NFLproject.com website, and sent him the data. He said:

    Based on the assumption that fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, you’d expect to see, according to random fluctuation, the results that the Patriots have gotten over this period, once in 16,233.77 instances”.

    Which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win. Which in other words, it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence….
    …see link…”

    The comments after the article are interesting, btw

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photozn.
    #17342
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

    “….The 2014 Patriots were just the 3rd team in the last 25 years to never have lost a fumble at home! The biggest difference between the Patriots and the other 2 teams who did it was that New England ran between 150 and 200 MORE plays this year than those teams did in the years they had zero home fumbles, making the Patriots stand alone in this unique statistic.

    Based on the desire to incorporate full season data (not just home games, as a team theoretically bring “doctored footballs” with them on the road) I performed the following analysis:

    I looked at the last 5 years.of data (since 2010) and examined TOTAL FUMBLES in all games (as well as fumbles/game) but more importantly, TOTAL OFFENSIVE PLAYS RUN. Thus, we can to determine average PLAYS per FUMBLE, a much more valuable statistic. The results are displayed in the chart below. Keep in mind, this is for all games since 2010, regardless of indoors, outdoors, weather, site, etc. EVERYTHING…

    One can CLEARLY SEE the Patriots, visually, are off the chart. There is no other team even close to being near to their rate of 187 offensive plays (passes+rushes+sacks) per fumble. The league average is 105 plays/fumble. Most teams are within 21 plays of that number.

    I spoke with a data scientist who I know from work on the NFLproject.com website, and sent him the data. He said:

    Based on the assumption that fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, you’d expect to see, according to random fluctuation, the results that the Patriots have gotten over this period, once in 16,233.77 instances”.

    Which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win. Which in other words, it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence….
    …see link…”

    The comments after the article are interesting, btw

    w
    v

    Deflated footballs are easier to hold on to, so that could account for the highly improbable statistical disparity between the Patriot’s plays/fumble and everyone else’s. Just sayin.

    The next time Belichek negotiates a deal with Satan he should have his lawyers make sure it stipulates that the public won’t find out about the cheating. Yeah, he’ll get the wins and any repercussions from the cheating will be relatively mild but to non-Pats fans the victories will always be tainted. His legacy is forever tarnished.

    #17343
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Deflated footballs are easier to hold on to, so that could account for the highly improbable statistical disparity between the Patriot’s plays/fumble and everyone else’s. Just sayin.

    The next time Belichek negotiates a deal with Satan he should have his lawyers make sure it stipulates that the public won’t find out about the cheating. Yeah, he’ll get the wins and any repercussions from the cheating will be relatively mild but to non-Pats fans the victories will always be tainted. His legacy is forever tarnished.

    The algebra is interesting,
    but not conclusive, of course.

    What happens if Pete Carroll and Belichex,
    both made deals with the Devil?
    What then?

    w
    v

    #17345
    bnw
    Blocked

    I read or heard somewhere that this deflate gate might end up being within the rules as written though outside of the intent. The two scenarios I heard about are,

    1. Another gas was placed into the balls at room temperature to be inspected by the officials but when taken outside into the cold the gas contracts lowering the pressure.

    2. The balls were filled to pressure within the teams sauna and inspected then when taken outside the cold temperature causes the air inside to cool and thus contract lowering the air pressure.

    Both scenarios would be within the rules as written although in a slimy way.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17349
    rfl
    Participant

    I tell you what’s deflating–casual fan interest.

    I mean, I dunno if that’s true. I have to figure that it has to be.

    Another sports scandal, this one striking at the integrity of the sport.

    Another Super Bowl with 2 teams coached by guys with reputations and records for cheating.

    Who care who wins? I sure as hell don’t. Won’t watch a minute of the game.

    I can’t be the only guy in America turned off by all this.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #17355
    JackPMiller
    Participant
    #17360
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    http://sea.247sports.com/Bolt/Bill-Nye-on-Bill-Belichick-What-he-said-didnt-make-any-sense-35042656

    Bill Nye on Bill Belichick: ‘What he said didn’t make any sense’
    Kipp Adams – 4 hours ago 0
    Seattle news straight to your inbox
    5,423
    10

    (Photo: Stew Milne, USA TODAY Sports)
    On Saturday, Patriots head coach Bill Belichick held a press conference to tell reporters that following a science experiment that attempted to recreate what happened in the AFC Championship, they found that the Patriots “followed every rule, to the letter.”

    Belichick tried to drop some knowledge on the media, saying he studied the science behind why the air pressure in footballs can be affected by environmental conditions, and said that by simply rubbing the footballs, the pressure would change. Bill Belichick “The Science Guy” did not touch on why the Patriots footballs all deflated, and the Colts footballs did not.

    Bill Nye the Science Guy is not buying Belichick’s theory.

    “I’m not too worried about coach Belichick competing with me,” Nye said Sunday, on Good Morning America. “What he said didn’t make any sense. Rubbing the football I don’t think you can change the pressure. To really change the pressure you need one of these, the inflation needle.”

    At the end of his statement, Nye added “Go Seahawks.”

    #17401
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    3-ply Urethane Bladder news.
    w
    v
    ——————————
    Seamstress Who Handed Off to the N.F.L. for 48 Years
    Watching Patriots Scandal From Afar, a Retired Football Maker Says Wilson Did Its Job

    By KEN BELSONJAN. 21, 2015

    “…Despite reports that the cold weather or a player spiking the ball might have led to the deflation, the only way to remove that much air that quickly would be to put a needle in the valve and to let the air seep out, said Kevin Murphy, who runs the American football division at Wilson.

    Wilson, he said, goes to great lengths to ensure the N.F.L. balls do not leak, even in extreme heat or cold. Every ball has a special three-ply urethane bladder inside, and during production, the balls are filled with 100 pounds of air pressure and then deflated to 13 pounds, the amount required for game balls….

    ….The leather arrives each Monday from Chicago, where Horween tans it to Wilson’s specifications. The hides are 22 square feet, about the side of a cow, and have been cured in a secret milky, tacky liquid created for Wilson. Before the leather gets to Ada, it is pounded to give it a pebbly feel, and tiny W’s are embossed on the leather to ensure authenticity.

    The hides are laid on a table, and a metal form is pressed down to cut out oval panels, which are then weighed and matched for color consistency. A thin layer of leather is peeled off the backs of the panels to reduce their weight.

    After they are stacked in sets of four, the panels are stamped with the N.F.L. logo and other design features. Mesh linings made out of rubber and cotton are then affixed to the panels to help the ball maintain its shape.
    Continue reading the main story
    Recent Comments
    will
    3 days ago

    It’s not about winning or losing, it’s playing by the rules. Obviously New England can’t do that and your trying to pass it off with ” we…
    c
    3 days ago

    Let’s put it into perspective. The balls were found at halftime to be slightly under-inflated. At halftime the score was 17-7 and it hadn’t…
    Mr. M
    3 days ago

    When I was studying documentary filmmaking my mentor Arthur Barron taught me to remember that, “Nobody’s life is uninteresting”. Ken Belson,…

    See All Comments

    The panels are sewed inside out in halves, perhaps the most difficult job in the factory. The halves are then sewn together with heavy thread to make an inside-out football, which is put in a steam box to soften the leather and is stretched. The seams are rolled to flatten them.

    Lacers turn the balls outside in, stuff a rubber bladder inside and push a nipple through a small hole so the balls can be inflated. Laces are added using an awl. The ball is overinflated to stretch the seams and is deflated to its designed weight.

    “I still get goose bumps when I grab a game ball,” Murphy said. “It’s the perfect shape, feel and smell.”

    N.F.L. balls are just a small part of the production at the factory. In all, about 700,000 leather balls a year, between 3,000 and 4,000 a day, are made in Ada, with about half of them shipped in the spring to high schools and colleges. (Nonleather balls are produced in China.)

    Although Wilson says it controls about 70 percent of the game-ball market, companies like Nike have pushed in. This makes Wilson’s exclusive N.F.L. agreement even more important.

    “The N.F.L. is a big deal for us because if you get a product like that in the hands of the best players in the world, it’s huge,” Murphy said…
    ..see link
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/sports/football/new-england-patriots-scandal-from-afar-a-retired-football-maker-says-wilson-did-its-job.html?WT.mc_id=2015-JAN-OUTBRAIN-VIEWED_AUD_DEV-0121-0131&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=OUTBRAINAD&_r=0

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photozn.
    #17565
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Warner say cheating issues affect Belichick’s legacy

    By Jim Thomas

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/warner-say-cheating-issues-affect-belichick-s-legacy/article_89cacc1d-3f62-55f8-a411-4ea31566b8c4.html

    PHOENIX • Count former Rams quarterback Kurt Warner among those who feels Bill Belichick’s great coaching credentials should contain an asterisk because of cheating, or in some cases, allegations of cheating against the New England Patriots.

    “I think he’s a great football coach,” Warner said Tuesday, during a break between the New England and Seattle sessions at Super Bowl XLIX Media Day. “I think he’s one of the best football coaches that the league’s ever seen.”

    But then, there’s the flip side. Namely, the punishment the Patriots received for illegally taping the signals of other teams — specifically the New York Jets — in the Spygate scandal. And the current Deflategate investigation into the possibility that New England illegally deflated footballs prior to their AFC championship game this season against Indianapolis.

    Also there were allegations that the Patriots illegally taped practices of Warner’s Rams and the Carolina Panthers during Super Bowl week, allegations that were never thoroughly investigated by the NFL.

    “As far as the other side of it, we also know that (Belichick) has played outside the rules,” Warner said. “And I think that’s unfortunate. Because when you’re talking about guys that are the greatest at what they do, you don’t want to feel like they had any help in the process.

    “There’s always gonna be a little bit of doubt — not that it’s gonna affect him in saying, ‘Well, he’s a terrible coach, and he just cheated and that’s why he had all the success.’

    “No, he’s a great coach. But by putting himself and his team outside the lines, you’re always gonna bring in that little bit of doubt on how much did that help him? Since that (Spygate) scandal, I don’t know if they won a Super Bowl.”

    They haven’t.

    “So you sit back and go, well, was it because of any advantage they got? It’s unfortunate for him. Unfortunate for our league. Unfortunate for historians who love the game and love great coaches, because we don’t know. We don’t know.”

    Neither Warner, nor any of the Super Bowl XXXVI Rams have said much about the 20-17 loss to New England after the allegations came out a few years later that the Patriots illegally taped a Saturday Rams walk-through the day before the game.

    There are some who were in the organization at that time who believe the Patriots were taping Rams practices during the week as well.

    Warner says he tries to push all that out of his mind.

    “I don’t want to believe that there was anything outside of (Belichick’s) team beat our team,” Warner said. “That’s what I want to believe.

    “Yeah, there’s a sliver of a doubt because I think as a human you can’t help it. To know that if you were a part of that process at that time: Was there any advantage they gained in any game? Not just our Super Bowl game, but maybe a game before that to get to the Super Bowl?

    “I mean all those things enter your mind. And it’s not because I’m bitter. It’s not because I say they cheated. Because I have no idea. But it adds a sliver of doubt, which I think is unfair to everybody.”

    Warner said it’s not only unfair to the Patriots and their legacy, but unfair to his legacy as a member of the Greatest Show on Turf.

    “I don’t want to have to wonder: Did they beat me fair-and-square or was there something extra?” he said. “That’s the part that I don’t think you’ll ever get over. Because you know something was done outside the rules. I have no idea how it helped them.

    “I don’t know if it gave them an advantage on one play that turned into an interception or a touchdown. Or gave ’em no advantage. I don’t know.”

    “But why am I even talking about it? I don’t want to even talk about it.”

    #17586
    bnw
    Blocked

    Rams were robbed in Super Bowl 36. I cringe every time I hear someone claim Belichick figured the officials would “let them play”. What head coach prepares his team to not follow the rules? Answer is a head coach who has been informed that the officials were not going to call certain penalties against them. Those penalties that struck at the heart of the Rams passing attack. People blaming Martz for not running Faulk enough miss the big picture. Why would any head coach expect the officials to not do their job? How can any game plan be formulated under such conditions unless you know what the officials (and your opponent, SpyGate started against the Rams in that Super Bowl) will do beforehand? Rams were robbed and everyone on that team knows it.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17587
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Rams were robbed in Super Bowl 36. I cringe every time I hear someone claim Belichick figured the officials would “let them play”. What head coach prepares his team to not follow the rules?

    Well on that one…most did, frankly. The Vikes made the same complaint about the Rams following the 99 playoff game. In fact, since it was clear throughout the league in those years that refs would just “let em play,” my big complaint is that the Rams defense didn’t do the same thing to the Patz offense.

    Really, it wasn’t just that game, and it wasn’t just the Patz. The coach who says get physical with receivers in the playoffs is the one who notices that league-wide, that’s how it was going to be in the post-season.

    Of course that was then. They tightened all that up after…in part because of complaints from the Rams.

    #17591
    bnw
    Blocked

    Rams were robbed in Super Bowl 36. I cringe every time I hear someone claim Belichick figured the officials would “let them play”. What head coach prepares his team to not follow the rules?

    Well on that one…most did, frankly. The Vikes made the same complaint about the Rams following the 99 playoff game. In fact, since it was clear throughout the league in those years that refs would just “let em play,” my big complaint is that the Rams defense didn’t do the same thing to the Patz offense.

    Really, it wasn’t just that game, and it wasn’t just the Patz. The coach who says get physical with receivers in the playoffs is the one who notices that league-wide, that’s how it was going to be in the post-season.

    Of course that was then. They tightened all that up after…in part because of complaints from the Rams.

    No, I don’t believe it. How does the Tuck rule fall under that let them play? Between the Patriots taping Rams plays and the officials taking away the Rams passing attack by not calling the penalties the Rams were robbed.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17595
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    zn wrote:

    Rams were robbed in Super Bowl 36. I cringe every time I hear someone claim Belichick figured the officials would “let them play”. What head coach prepares his team to not follow the rules?

    Well on that one…most did, frankly. The Vikes made the same complaint about the Rams following the 99 playoff game. In fact, since it was clear throughout the league in those years that refs would just “let em play,” my big complaint is that the Rams defense didn’t do the same thing to the Patz offense.

    Really, it wasn’t just that game, and it wasn’t just the Patz. The coach who says get physical with receivers in the playoffs is the one who notices that league-wide, that’s how it was going to be in the post-season.

    Of course that was then. They tightened all that up after…in part because of complaints from the Rams.

    No, I don’t believe it. How does the Tuck rule fall under that let them play? Between the Patriots taping Rams plays and the officials taking away the Rams passing attack by not calling the penalties the Rams were robbed.

    I was just thinking of the aggressive defensive banging on receivers and on Faulk. That stuff was all over the place. Until the changed it a couple of times, including recently, by getting stricter each time. I was only referring to that kind of thing–basically, the physical style of defensive backs. The tuck rule was just a bad call or a bad rule or both.

    #17630
    bnw
    Blocked

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>bnw wrote:</div>

    zn wrote:

    Rams were robbed in Super Bowl 36. I cringe every time I hear someone claim Belichick figured the officials would “let them play”. What head coach prepares his team to not follow the rules?

    Well on that one…most did, frankly. The Vikes made the same complaint about the Rams following the 99 playoff game. In fact, since it was clear throughout the league in those years that refs would just “let em play,” my big complaint is that the Rams defense didn’t do the same thing to the Patz offense.

    Really, it wasn’t just that game, and it wasn’t just the Patz. The coach who says get physical with receivers in the playoffs is the one who notices that league-wide, that’s how it was going to be in the post-season.

    Of course that was then. They tightened all that up after…in part because of complaints from the Rams.

    No, I don’t believe it. How does the Tuck rule fall under that let them play? Between the Patriots taping Rams plays and the officials taking away the Rams passing attack by not calling the penalties the Rams were robbed.

    I was just thinking of the aggressive defensive banging on receivers and on Faulk. That stuff was all over the place. Until the changed it a couple of times, including recently, by getting stricter each time. I was only referring to that kind of thing–basically, the physical style of defensive backs. The tuck rule was just a bad call or a bad rule or both.

    Or how about a blatant intentional grounding not called against Brady in the closing minutes of Super Bowl 36? Rams were robbed.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17633
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12244290/ex-quarterback-jeff-blake-deflating-footballs-common

    PHOENIX — Former NFL quarterback Jeff Blake says he oversaw the deflation of footballs on the sideline right before games during his career. Speaking on “The Midday 180” out of Nashville, Blake said the practice was common.

    “…”I’m just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played,” Blake said. “‘Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can’t feel the ball as well. It’s too hard. Everybody puts the pin in and lets just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it’s not the point to where it’s flat.

    “So I don’t know what the big deal is. It’s not something that’s not been done for 20 years.”

    Many other NFL quarterbacks have said the opposite, that the…

    “As soon as they give them the balls,” Blake said. “On the sideline before the game. The quarterbacks would come out to warm up in pregame … I would just say, ‘Take a little bit out, it’s a little bit hard.’ And then they’d take a little bit out and I’d squeeze them and say ‘That’s perfect.’ That’s it.”…see link..”

    #17634
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    #17656
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Player’s Take on Deflategate

    http://www.theplayerstribune.com/deflategate/

    Chris Long
    Social Media Editor

    The 24-hour news cycle has an insatiable appetite. The phenomenon was no more apparent in the slow week between the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Just as media everywhere braced for the silence, a miracle happened. D’Qwell Jackson, a linebacker for the Colts, intercepted a football.

    This wasn’t any ordinary football. You see, it had less air in it than usual. To the Colts, that seemed to be a big deal. The guy who unintentionally tossed him the rock is kind of a big deal, too. If you haven’t been living in a bunker with no Wi-Fi, a mile under an enormous rock this week, you know the rest of the story. But is this really just a convenient scoop, gift-wrapped for the media to stretch into an epic saga when they needed it most, or is this a legacy-altering scandal for Brady, Belichick and the Patriots?

    Don’t get me wrong, Deflategate is the perfect storm of media and sports hype. It’s entertaining. It’s an equal opportunity touchdown of a story, accessible to the most well versed football analysts and your favorite cable news “personality” alike. It isn’t about unbalanced sets or the read option or Cover 2. It’s about air in a football. Air. Everyone knows a bit about that. Cue the experts!

    Speaking of entertainment, we saw it all this week: morning show hosts clutching deflated pigskins, scientists theorizing on ESPN, and even government officials weighing in on the firmness of our nation’s footballs. The icing on the cake for me was seeing advertisers rushing to cash in on the chaos with their own best shot at a clever commercial. Krispy Kreme was one of the most notable. I even saw Maker’s Mark take an awkward shot at it. (Just another reason I prefer Jack Daniels.) And of course, it’s not a scandal until you throw a “-gate” on the end of it. Oh, and it rhymes. Bingo. Deflategate.

    As an NFL player, watching Deflategate unfold (maybe explode is the better word) has been all the more surreal. I should have all the answers about how a football is supposed to look and feel. As a defensive end, however, when it comes to possessing the football, I’m just a fan with really good seats. I’ve probably handled the pigskin in a game about five times in seven years. The ball could turn into a small house pet in my hands and I wouldn’t notice. When I’m lucky enough to get the ball, I’m one of those kid-on-Christmas-morning defensive players who’s just trying not to pull a Leon Lett.

    You want to know who handles the football more than anyone on the field? The refs. I’m not only talking about the pre-game inspection process. I’m talking about throughout the game, in between every play. Now, I’m not saying that an NFL referee should be a human psi (pounds per square inch) reading machine. (Silicon Valley, get on that.) But if a football feels so obviously different at 11 psi than it does at 13.5 psi — enough to argue that it lends a team a competitive advantage — maybe the best officials on the planet should have noticed something was awry that night at Gillette.

    Another thing that was awry that night was the weather. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, who’ve been playing together in the AFC East for the last 15 years, know something about cold, wet weather. They seem to play their best when the temperature drops and snow or rain is falling. So if you believe Tom and Bill have been using deflated footballs, game in and game out, for a decade and a half, why is this the first time we’re hearing about it? That’s all the way back to 2001. You know how long ago that was? The first PT Cruiser came out in 2001. Creed was killing it in 2001. So either the Patriots have been doctoring footballs in every big game since Mulholland Drive was in theaters, or they’ve simply mastered the art of winning no matter the conditions.

    Deflategate has also turned a lot of people into scientists. The scientist in me (also known as the dude who googles stuff) can see valid points on both sides of Deflategate. One guy I noticed last week was the host of the ESPN’s Sport Science, John Brenkus (a trustworthy University of Virginia grad at that). He concluded that “underinflated balls had a miniscule effect on any given play.” As ESPN’s authority on the the intersection of physics and sports, I couldn’t help but wonder if he made the folks in Bristol a little uncomfortable. The mothership has tirelessly led the effort to make Deflategate a spectacle.

    Regardless, those physics folks have tended to agree on one thing: Changes in temperature can alter game ball pressure, changing the magic psi number in a big way. Both teams’ game balls were examined at halftime. Why were 11 of 12 Patriots footballs underinflated at the half while all of the Colts’ footballs remained “normal”? Common sense says that it’s likely there was some sort of human intervention, from someone in the Patriots camp. (Who it was, and why they did it, will give us a better idea of the necessary punishment.) But hypothetically, what if a team naturally prefers their footballs more inflated? They could overinflate the game balls to balance for the loss of pressure in the colder temperatures. That would be ludicrous right? What kind of idiot likes more air in their footballs?

    A guy named Aaron Rodgers does. He likes them inflated to the max. Aaron Rodgers has reportedly said that he likes to “push the limit” on football air pressure. I feel sorry for Jordy Nelson catching those bullets up there in that brisk Green Bay climate. Then again I don’t because it must be nice having the best quarterback in the league throwing you passes, and the best quarterback also seems to employ a bit of gamesmanship. As Brenkus said this week on Sport Science, an overinflated football actually travels faster. How’s that for an advantage?

    So it seems that the doctoring of game balls is nothing new — it’s just new to the public (and new to guys like me who, sadly, never get to tote the rock). As recently as this November, cameras caught the Panthers and Vikings using sideline heaters to heat up their footballs because game temperatures were hovering in the teens. According to NFL VP of Officiating Dean Blandino, this was a violation of league rules. But what kind of violation — a grievous ethical one, or something more gray? Another example: former Buccaneers QB Brad Johnson has admitted paying $7,500 to have his footballs doctored to his specifications for Super Bowl XXXVII, a game in which the Bucs cruised to a 48-21 victory. He freely and openly offered up that information. No one’s calling Brad Johnson’s legacy into question (and they shouldn’t).

    The thing about Deflategate is that you can marshal an argument to support each and every side. You might think I’m carrying water for the Patriots, but I’m actually not. As an NFL player, I can admire Brady’s career and still ask critical questions. Someone defending the Patriots could point out that the Pats outscored the Colts 28-0 in the second half, after the deflated footballs had been replaced. (It was a competitive game, at 17-7, at the end of the first half.) They could also bring up the fact that two out of three of Brady’s TD passes came in the second half, or that his only interception came in the first. Brady also threw for more yards in the second half (131 versus 95) and had eight fewer incompletions. Basically, the change didn’t seem to rattle him. Maybe this sample size is too small to prove a point. I’m sure, however, that if the Patriots had played miserably in the second half and lost the game, everyone calling for an asterisk next to the busts of Belichick and Brady in Canton would lead with that argument.

    And what about the run game? What effect does a football’s pressure have on a team’s rushing? LeGarrette Blount rushed for 148 yards and the Patriots didn’t fumble once that night. For years now, the Patriots have been elite when it comes to protecting the football. I’ve heard stories of the Patriots running drills with soaking wet, slick footballs. My college coach and good friend Al Groh is one of the tougher branches on the Belichick coaching tree, so I’m familiar with this style of coaching. As another coach told me, you get what you emphasize. This emphasis has been paying off for years. But that’s just the football player in me talking.

    Let’s get down to it: this story isn’t as much about air pressure as it is about the cult of the New England Patriots. The Patriots are really good at two things: winning football games and not giving a shit what you think about them. This modus operandi has earned the Patriots an equal number of fans and haters. One thing that drives people crazy is Belichick’s “less is more” school of media engagement. Media relations, after all, is a game. It involves three parties: the teams, the media and the fans. All three groups know it’s a game, but if a player or a coach doesn’t play ball, people get pissed. Bill Belichick is not only a Hall of Fame coach, but he is also the undisputed heavyweight champion when it comes to flustering members of the media. I find it hard to believe Deflategate would be as big of a story without Belichick and Brady as the villains. Anybody heard about the recent Cleveland Browns texting allegations? I didn’t think so.

    It all came to a crescendo this week, as all eyes were fixed on Foxborough. This had to be it. We’d finally see contrition. We’d get our coveted admission of guilt. We’d finally see Tom Brady and Bill Belichick sheepishly take the podium and whisper “mercy.” But all Tom and Bill proceeded to do was twist the knife. Tom stuck to his story. And so did Bill. Days later, Belichick stole the show by calling an impromptu press conference and pulling the ultimate “have some” maneuver: he made the media wait, strolled in on his own schedule and went all Isaac Newton. The media, longing to get Coach Belichick’s time and attention for years, finally had it: in the form of a physics lesson. It was beautiful.

    I never thought a story about the science of football could be so entertaining, thought provoking and funny. (I even stumbled upon an article titled “What Can I Tell My Kids About Deflategate?” so you can add “disturbing” to this list of adjectives.) This mess will change the future of the league. Starting after the Super Bowl. The least self-serving thing the NFL can do mid-Super Bowl week is release some damning grainy video of sideline footage — if they have it. You’d also better believe sideline protocol will be forever changed. League officials will sit in some crow’s nest in NYC monitoring the sideline like Saul in Homeland. (Look on the bright side, at least this might create jobs.)

    The real storyline this week should be about one of the most exciting, evenly matched Super Bowls in recent memory. It should be about Brady and Belichick’s last and best chance to take their place in history alongside Noll and Bradshaw, Walsh and Montana. But as usual, some members of the media chose to go after the low hanging fruit.

    I’m not saying the Patriots should skate free. If it comes out that the Patriots are guilty of bending or breaking league rules, they should be punished. But we should wait for an investigation to play out. Even today, Patriots owner Robert Kraft doubled down on the the team’s innocence, maintaining he believes “unconditionally that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate.”

    No matter what comes of this, I don’t think I’ll be questioning the Patriots’ legacy. But that’s just one man’s opinion. Football is a profoundly difficult game. You could pair countless quarterbacks with countless head coaches and give them a bag of magic footballs and they’d still struggle to win a playoff game. Tom and Bill have won 20 (a record), with an ever-changing cast of characters in an ever-changing league. This Sunday’s Super Bowl may be one of their most difficult tasks yet. The Seahawks are as physical and complete a football team as I’ve seen in my seven years in the league. Beating them takes a hell of an effort. As a player, I know. We’ve been fortunate enough to beat them a few times, and we’ve always appreciated how special it was.

    I know this for sure: the most perfect, pristine footballs of all time will be flying around that field in Glendale, Arizona this weekend. If the smoke clears on Monday and the Patriots are world champions, my hope is that everyone will appreciate the Patriots for sustaining one of the great runs by a franchise in league history. Either way, Bill Belichick won’t care what you think.

    #17668
    Dak
    Participant

    Chris Long is a pretty good writer.

    I think the Patriots deserve credit for a lot of things. But, they also have to own criticism when it comes to cheating. They were already caught once.

    One would think that if they were so good, why would they have to cheat to gain an advantage?

    And, I have no problem with the media attention. Own it, Patriots.

    One interesting point that Long makes is that the referees handle the footballs the most, implying that maybe they should have noticed. But, the refs don’t play the game, squeeze the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, hold on to the ball while someone’s trying to strip it, etc.

    #17669
    bnw
    Blocked

    Only the comments about the officials were valid. The rest of it was typical sweeping it under the rug whenever it involves the Patriots. It is cheating plan and simple.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17671
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    One interesting point that Long makes is that the referees handle the footballs the most, implying that maybe they should have noticed. But, the refs don’t play the game, squeeze the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, hold on to the ball while someone’s trying to strip it, etc.

    Right. And the refs didn’t deflate the balls either. The Patriots did that. So let’s not blame the refs for any of this. That just deflects blame from where it truly belongs…with the Patriots.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 9 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #17673
    PA Ram
    Participant

    My problem with the whole “everybody does it”(except Kurt Warner apparently), is if that is the case, why does it just come out now?

    With the Pats?

    There were all sorts of chances for this to come out–in all the other games where apparently everybody does it but it didn’t.

    The problem with the Pats is that cheating is a way of life for them. I feel no pity for them. They deserve every bit of grief they get. It should be overblown, if that’s the case, because this team should be carefully watched.

    While everyone is watching Deflategate right now, they probably have some other scheme hatched right now for the Superbowl–something no one is expecting. They can’t help themselves.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #17675
    bnw
    Blocked

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Dak wrote:</div>
    One interesting point that Long makes is that the referees handle the footballs the most, implying that maybe they should have noticed. But, the refs don’t play the game, squeeze the ball, throw the ball, catch the ball, hold on to the ball while someone’s trying to strip it, etc.

    Right. And the refs didn’t deflate the balls either. The Patriots did that. So let’s not blame the refs for any of this. That just deflects blame from where it truly belongs…with the Patriots.

    Refs cheating for the Patriots is their history. We witnessed it in SB36! Refs hold that ball before each play. It took the Colts player demanding action that put the officials on the spot making them address the issue.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17805
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Well…they won.

    .

    #17840
    Dak
    Participant

    Well…they won.

    .

    Yeah.

    I bet this “deflate-gate” is dismissed more quietly than a few PSI’s worth of air.

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