Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › New England … praise and blame
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January 21, 2015 at 5:20 pm #17076bnwBlocked
let’s be clear. on offense one team uses their balls exclusively. the other team uses their balls exclusively when they’re on offense.
so yeah it can create an advantage. for sure. would it have made a difference of 30 points? probably not. but it definitely makes a difference.
Wait. When a team gets behind enough they change their approach and usually become one dimensional, predictable on offense. All the cheating has to do is get the other team off its game plan.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
January 21, 2015 at 5:20 pm #17077DakParticipantAlso, i disagree with those that think “cheating is cheating
whether it helps the Pats or not.”
I think there is a significant difference between “cheating
that helps” and “cheating that doesnt”. Its like one
is a traffic violation, and one is a Felony. Kinda.Well, you’re coming at this like a lawyer, I guess. But, I have no idea how you can think that New England, or anyone, would cheat without expecting an advantage. Why cheat, if you don’t expect an advantage? With the Patriots, you really have no idea how much of what they do would help or hurt, anyway. You just don’t. It’s up to interpretation. Hell, the NFL had no idea whether bounty gate helped or hurt the Saints, either, or whether it was responsible for hurting other players. But, a clear line was crossed. Once you cross that line, you’re in violation. How much or whether you affected the outcome of the play is difficult to quantify. But, there’s a reason those lines were drawn in the first place.
And, you can’t help but think if indeed the Patriots did this once, maybe they’ve been do it all along, for years.
But, I’ll wait to see what the NFL says officially. Should be interesting.
January 21, 2015 at 5:22 pm #17078DakParticipantWait. When a team gets behind enough they change their approach and usually become one dimensional, predictable on offense. All the cheating has to do is get the other team off its game plan.
Exactly. You have no idea how much the cheating affects the game. Maybe a lot. Maybe none. That’s all a guessing game.
January 21, 2015 at 5:32 pm #17082wvParticipantAlso, i disagree with those that think “cheating is cheating
whether it helps the Pats or not.”
I think there is a significant difference between “cheating
that helps” and “cheating that doesnt”. Its like one
is a traffic violation, and one is a Felony. Kinda.Well, you’re coming at this like a lawyer, I guess. But, I have no idea how you can think that New England, or anyone, would cheat without expecting an advantage. Why cheat, if you don’t expect an advantage? With the Patriots, you really have no idea how much of what they do would help or hurt, anyway. You just don’t. It’s up to interpretation. Hell, the NFL had no idea whether bounty gate helped or hurt the Saints, either, or whether it was responsible for hurting other players. But, a clear line was crossed. Once you cross that line, you’re in violation. How much or whether you affected the outcome of the play is difficult to quantify. But, there’s a reason those lines were drawn in the first place.
And, you can’t help but think if indeed the Patriots did this once, maybe they’ve been do it all along, for years.
But, I’ll wait to see what the NFL says officially. Should be interesting.
Well I am still a-thinkin-on-it. So far, I’m not persuaded it was a ‘big deal.’
Probably partly because I am old 🙂 And back in the olden days, coaches and players
did all kinds of stuff that would be called “cheating” by today’s fans. George Allen
was accused of putting spies in trees by Tom Landry, for example.
I can just imagine what John Madden’s Raiders did to the opponents
balls 🙂I just dont have enuff information yet. Not enuff context.
For example what if some players come out and say “oh hell lots of
coaches deflate balls. Its happened a gazillion times over the years.
We all just laugh about it.”w
v- This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by wv.
January 21, 2015 at 6:04 pm #17085InvaderRamModeratoryeah. and how many football players take performance enhancing drugs which we don’t even know about? i mean. who knows how many players on the rams have taken performance enhancing drugs or even something as simple as altered their own playing equipment for a competitive advantage.
i’m not too bothered by it. but i sure would like to see belichick and brady squirm in their interview booths.
January 21, 2015 at 6:49 pm #17089wvParticipant“…Former NFL official Jim Daopoulos, in an interview with ESPN on Monday morning, explained the process in which footballs are managed. Two hours and 15 minutes before each game, officials inspect 12 footballs from each team and put a mark on them to indicate they meet the proper requirements and are good for usage. Then those footballs are given to the ball attendant.
There also is a second set of six footballs, used specifically for the kicking game, that are marked appropriately and remain in the possession of officials at all times.
“Officials check balls as they go into the game, and if the ball doesn’t feel perfect, they can throw it out,” Daopoulos said. “There is always the possibility that balls can lose air due to the conditions.”
A team can be fined if it is found….”
w
vJanuary 21, 2015 at 7:00 pm #17090lyserParticipantThe good news is lots of “balls” jokes now. A few off the cuff:
“I always thought Tom Brady had deflated balls”
“I am always careful to check Tom’s balls now”
“Luck’s balls were perfect”
“Bellycheat has funky balls”
“Don’t Deflate my balls bro”
Those were terrible, better check my balls ’cause my game is off.
January 21, 2015 at 7:21 pm #17093cgsuddeathParticipantcgsuddeath wrote:
It’s easy to have a record like that when you have 3 weakling teams in your divisionNo, it isn’t.
It certainly helps. But that is quite a sustained run. They retooled repeatedly and stayed competitive. They did not sink to the level of their division. So maybe there are some seasons in there where their record looks better than they were, but that is a damn impressive run.
Yes but one has to wonder how many of those games were determined by their cheating
January 21, 2015 at 7:29 pm #17095sdramParticipantI think Belicheck should atone for the ‘cheatriot’ ways – torture, embarrassment, incarceration, forfeiture of all personal assets, shame, agony, and misery. Or, maybe they could make him listen to somebody recite Emily Dickinson poetry for a couple hours.
He’s a really good coach – who I think is easy to vilianize. He’s easy to despise. And, he has 12 balls.
January 21, 2015 at 9:04 pm #17104InvaderRamModeratorSeattle backup quarterback Tarvaris Jackson laughed about the controversy.
“That’s crazy,” Jackson said. “But I have thrown some balls that weren’t all the way pumped up [by accident]. They do feel better. Kicking balls are horrible. They’re overinflated.”
January 21, 2015 at 10:15 pm #17108nittany ramModeratorThe good news is lots of “balls” jokes now. A few off the cuff:
“I always thought Tom Brady had deflated balls”
“I am always careful to check Tom’s balls now”
“Luck’s balls were perfect”
“Bellycheat has funky balls”
“Don’t Deflate my balls bro”
Those were terrible, better check my balls ’cause my game is off.
Some balls are held for charity,
And some for fancy dress…
But the balls that are deflated are the balls that I like best…January 22, 2015 at 1:03 am #17110Eternal RamnationParticipantI guess I really don’t care what the speculated effects are, it’s a rule for a reason and no team should be above the rules but the Patriots just are. I have zero tolerance for injustice. Is this the NFL or the WWF ?
January 22, 2015 at 9:24 am #17132DakParticipantI was watching a segment on ESPN this morning where they handed Mark Brunell three different footballs to throw to Jerome Bettis. One ball was underinflated, one overinflated and inflated properly. Brunell and Bettis both guessed correctly which balls were which. Brunell said the underinflated ball is better for him because he can really grip it well and that helps him throw it better. Bettis said he didn’t know if the ball was easier to catch, but as a running back it would be easier to hold onto the ball and make it more difficult for a defender to strip the ball from him.
Tell me those wouldn’t be some nice advantages.
Now, if other teams do this, they should be punished, too. But, it always seems to be the Patriots, doesn’t it?
January 22, 2015 at 9:26 am #17133DakParticipantDak wrote:
Also, i disagree with those that think “cheating is cheating
whether it helps the Pats or not.”
I think there is a significant difference between “cheating
that helps” and “cheating that doesnt”. Its like one
is a traffic violation, and one is a Felony. Kinda.Well, you’re coming at this like a lawyer, I guess. But, I have no idea how you can think that New England, or anyone, would cheat without expecting an advantage. Why cheat, if you don’t expect an advantage? With the Patriots, you really have no idea how much of what they do would help or hurt, anyway. You just don’t. It’s up to interpretation. Hell, the NFL had no idea whether bounty gate helped or hurt the Saints, either, or whether it was responsible for hurting other players. But, a clear line was crossed. Once you cross that line, you’re in violation. How much or whether you affected the outcome of the play is difficult to quantify. But, there’s a reason those lines were drawn in the first place.
And, you can’t help but think if indeed the Patriots did this once, maybe they’ve been do it all along, for years.
But, I’ll wait to see what the NFL says officially. Should be interesting.
Well I am still a-thinkin-on-it. So far, I’m not persuaded it was a ‘big deal.’
Probably partly because I am old And back in the olden days, coaches and players
did all kinds of stuff that would be called “cheating” by today’s fans. George Allen
was accused of putting spies in trees by Tom Landry, for example.
I can just imagine what John Madden’s Raiders did to the opponents
ballsI just dont have enuff information yet. Not enuff context.
For example what if some players come out and say “oh hell lots of
coaches deflate balls. Its happened a gazillion times over the years.
We all just laugh about it.”w
vAll of that said, cheating is still cheating. The Colts were playing by the rules, and they also were trying to get to the Super Bowl.
January 22, 2015 at 12:05 pm #17136PA RamParticipant"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
January 22, 2015 at 6:54 pm #17145NERamParticipantI think Belicheck should atone for the ‘cheatriot’ ways – torture, embarrassment, incarceration, forfeiture of all personal assets, shame, agony, and misery. Or, maybe they could make him listen to somebody recite Emily Dickinson poetry for a couple hours.
Your being too easy on him. I think he should be hypnotized, and then convinced that he is a long term Rams fan.
Then, watch the joie de vivre get sucked right out of him. If he had any to begin with…
January 22, 2015 at 8:44 pm #17153joemadParticipant<P>All of that said, cheating is still cheating. The Colts were playing by the rules, and they also were trying to get to the Super Bowl.</P>
Baltimore was also trying to get to the Super Bowl and only lost by 4… you can’t help but think that those balls most likely weighed 2 lbs PSI less in the 2nd half against the Ravens when the Pats offense got hot.
January 23, 2015 at 1:25 am #17192Eternal RamnationParticipantDak wrote:
All of that said, cheating is still cheating. The Colts were playing by the rules, and they also were trying to get to the Super Bowl.</P>Baltimore was also trying to get to the Super Bowl and only lost by 4… you can’t help but think that those balls most likely weighed 2 lbs PSI less in the 2nd half against the Ravens when the Pats offense got hot.
Exactly , instead of talking about football,talent execution and strategy we’re talking about a team that has already been caught cheating ,cheating again. I’m boycotting the Super Bowl.Think I’ll watch Hawk and Animal in a cage match instead.
January 23, 2015 at 11:51 am #17220znModeratorNew England Patriots might go unscathed — and that’s deflating
http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-deflategate-plaschke-20150123-column.html
Bill Belichick played the rumpled dunce, wrinkled sweatshirt, rolled-up sleeves, the world’s most detailed football coach shrugging and sighing and professing to have no idea about footballs.
“I had no knowledge of the various steps involved in the game balls,” he said.
Tom Brady played the smiling fool, nifty ski cap, form-fitting sweats, slick and genial, one of the world’s greatest passers claiming he wasn’t always sure about the football he was passing.
“I’m not squeezing the balls, that’s not part of my process,” he said.
The two central figures in the New England Patriots football deflation scandal took two different approaches in separate news conferences Thursday, but the perception was the same.
They both came across like street-corner cheats.
Belichick was the old guy sitting at the card table with the shells. Brady was the young guy leaning against the wall with the dice. Their obliviousness was obviously orchestrated, yet they spun it in the cocksure manner of those who have done this before and know they will never get caught.
And, of course, they’re right. The worst thing about the news that the Patriots allegedly deflated 11 of 12 footballs by two pounds per square inch during their AFC championship game against the Indianapolis Colts on Sunday — a clear violation of NFL rules — is that the league will let them get away with it.
You really think a league that has shrugged off domestic violence will actually care about pigskin poisoning? Oh sure, the Patriots might be fined a few bucks after the Super Bowl and, yeah, an equipment guy will probably eventually take the fall as with the USC deflation scandal, but the almighty duo of Belichick and Brady will remain untouched.
From the rule-breaking videotaping of opponents’ signals to unethical last-second substitution deceptions, the Patriots have created such a culture of subterfuge that before games, some opposing coaches put locks on their locker room doors. Yet with owner Robert Kraft protecting them by serving as a mentor to Commissioner Roger Goodell — why do you think Goodell amazingly destroyed the “Spygate” tapes? — Belichick and Brady will proudly march to Arizona next week to stare down Seattle and attempt to win their fourth Super Bowl championship together, equaling records for both coach and quarterback.
Go, Seahawks.
The deflated footballs, which were less than their minimum weight of 12.5 pounds per square inch and generally improve grip on cold and rainy days, were certainly not the reason the Patriots wiped out the Colts, 45-7. In fact, once the deflated footballs were discovered, they were replaced at halftime with the Patriots leading 17-7.
The deflated footballs had little to do with that specific game, but they have everything to do with the rules. Even for just 30 scoreboard minutes, even with a dominant team that didn’t need the edge, the rules were broken and an advantage was taken. We have to wonder: How often have the Patriots been doing this, anyway? Just saying, but the Patriots running backs did not lose a single fumble this season, and their team was the second-best in the league in ball protection with just four fumbles lost.
The weight of the football is governed by a rule, and how is breaking that rule any different from a baseball hitter’s using a corked bat or a pitcher’s throwing a ball covered in pine tar? Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs was once suspended seven days for the bat, and the New York Yankees’ Michael Pineda was kicked out for 10 days for the pine tar. If a similar punishment were assessed in football, either Belichick or Brady would be forced to miss the Super Bowl. Yeah, and Janet Jackson is going to make a surprise appearance at the halftime show.
Quarterbacks have been scrambling out of the woodwork this week to claim that everyone alters footballs. Critics of the rule have quickly observed that the NFL fines teams only $25,000 with potentially more discipline for breaking the rule. But it’s still a rule, and it was still broken by team that seems consistently to skirt the rules, and at what point does the NFL decide that fair play outweighs gross revenue?
In his news conference, Belichick described in detail how he doctors the practice footballs to make them as difficult to handle as possible. But when it comes to the 12 footballs from Sunday’s game, he said he had no idea how they looked. Huh?
“I can tell you that in my entire coaching career, I have never talked to any player [or] staff member about football air pressure,” he said, adding, “We play with what’s out there.”
No wonder that even the circumspect former Dolphins coach Don Shula refers to Belichick as “Belicheat.”
In his ensuing news conference, the detail-oriented Brady said he likes footballs at exactly the 12.5-PSI minimum, but then he said he never really notices their size. Really?
“I get the snap, I drop back, I throw the ball,” he said. “I don’t sit there and squeeze it and try to determine that.”
Meanwhile, on Dallas Sports Radio 1310, former Super Bowl champion quarterback Troy Aikman simply said, “For the balls to be deflated, that doesn’t happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that.”
The overall assurances from Belichick and Brady on another dark day in the history of the New England Patriots were far different.
Said Belichick: “I never touched a game ball. It’s not something that I have any familiarity with on that.”
Said Brady: “I have no idea what happened.”
There is no questioning the football abilities of the greatest coach-player combination in NFL history. But sadly, their legacy will be stained with their belief that they are bigger than the league, bigger than the sport, big enough to stretch their entitled culture far beyond its rules.
Once again, when it comes to the integrity of the great Bill Belichick and Tom Brady, you can stick a pin in it.
January 23, 2015 at 1:18 pm #17221waterfieldParticipantMy response: Integrity of the game? What integrity? It’s played by a bunch of malcontent, maladjusted, violent thugs for the most part who are druggies, rapists, murderers, spousal abusers, on and on.
And we love the game because the uniforms hide it all.
January 23, 2015 at 1:36 pm #17222joemadParticipantMy response: Integrity of the game? What integrity? It’s played by a bunch of malcontent, maladjusted, violent thugs for the most part who are druggies, rapists, murderers, spousal abusers, on and on.
And we love the game because the uniforms hide it all.yes, but these charges you note (unless it’s enhancement drugs) do not affect the integrity of the game, meaning it doesn’t give the team or player an edge….
NFL Arrest data base = http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/
outside of Quinn, Trumain Johnson, Dunbar (charges dropped) the Rams are goodie 2 shoes…… I don’t count pot arrests, since it’s legal in 2 states and consider the physical punishment that these players take, i’d give them pass to hit the bong once in awhile.
January 23, 2015 at 1:50 pm #17225DakParticipantThis scandal is all anyone’s talking about when I hear them talking about the Super Bowl. Maybe the NFL figures that all the bad publicity the poor Patriots are getting is punishment enough, like an enabling father might do while ruffling his maladjusted son’s head.
January 23, 2015 at 2:49 pm #17230ZooeyModeratorMeanwhile, on Dallas Sports Radio 1310, former Super Bowl champion quarterback Troy Aikman simply said, “For the balls to be deflated, that doesn’t happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that.”
That statement rings forcefully true to me.
I hadn’t given this much thought. But Aikman is right. It’s inconceivable that Brady didn’t know.
January 23, 2015 at 3:37 pm #17231znModeratorSo how come Bradford never did that? Hmmm?
See, no competitive edge.
January 23, 2015 at 5:37 pm #17236bnwBlockedMy response: Integrity of the game? What integrity? It’s played by a bunch of malcontent, maladjusted, violent thugs for the most part who are druggies, rapists, murderers, spousal abusers, on and on.
And we love the game because the uniforms hide it all.
I refuse to believe it is that bad but certainly understand the sentiment.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
January 23, 2015 at 5:44 pm #17237bnwBlockedWhy doesn’t anyone question the integrity of the officials? They get the ball after each play and when a new ball is brought into play. They should know how a properly inflated ball feels. They let the Patriots get away with it for the first half only covering their ass when the Colts complained. The officials let the Patriots ignore rules the entire game thus stealing XXXVI from the Rams. This time who knows?
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
January 23, 2015 at 5:46 pm #17238bnwBlockedSo how come Bradford never did that? Hmmm?
See, no competitive edge.
Patriot RBs didn’t fumble once the entire season. It is a definite competitive edge. Can’t play devil’s advocate on this.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
January 23, 2015 at 6:01 pm #17242wvParticipantMy response: Integrity of the game? What integrity? It’s played by a bunch of malcontent, maladjusted, violent thugs for the most part who are druggies, rapists, murderers, spousal abusers, on and on.
And we love the game because the uniforms hide it all.
You forgot the Robber-Barron-Owners, and Corporate-Lawyers,
Corporate-Agents, and the rest of the chain of Corporate-Being 🙂At any rate, its a good question: Why do we love pro football?
I think i love it cause i just love the game itself. The drama of it.
The chess matches. The highs and lows. There’s some primal resonance
going on too, i guess. I dunno.I love Tapirs too. And cheese cake. And birch trees.
And Haiku. Just so you know.w
vJanuary 23, 2015 at 11:39 pm #17266wvParticipanthttp://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/how-they-were-built/
How Pats and Hawks were built“…Applying that practice meant that when the Seahawks broke through in 2012, they were the youngest team in the league. The 2014 Seahawks are a more mature team, both on the field and in terms of the development cycle of a group of players, but many of the same methods still apply….”
w
vJanuary 23, 2015 at 11:45 pm #17268wvParticipanthttp://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12217564/nfl-conducting-investigation-claim-new-england-patriots-used-underinflated-footballs
NFL interviewed forty people so far.w
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