New England … praise and blame

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  • #16988
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    Per Chris Mortenson…
    NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
    10:57 PM – 20 Jan 2015

    http://nep.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-NFL-Finds-Patriots-Used-Under-Inflated-Balls–34920367

    The only fair thing to do would be to strip the Patriots of their titles and ban them from the league.

    #16989
    lyser
    Participant

    I guess we will never really know how many SB titles these guys would have without cheating – including this year. Proven cheaters every year they won a SB. That Spygate book is a good read. They should let the Ravens and Colts play this weekend to represent AFC is SB. All their titles will always have an * next to them for me.

    #16995
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    why wouldn’t it make a difference?

    You wondering about the spying-cheating or
    the deflating-cheating?

    w
    v

    #17002
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Yeah I don’t get it. In any other sport, if you cheat, you forfeit that win. Why is it different in the NFL. Mother effing patriots get away with murder.

    They steal championships. It pisses me off.

    🙂

    #17003
    Dak
    Participant

    ==============================
    Rambill

    Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport 1d1

    NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
    NFL has no comment at this time and Patriots say they will continue to cooperate with the investigation. More on SpotrsCenter.

    If true, Belichick needs to be suspended for a year. They set a precedent with Sean Payton.

    #17004
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>wv wrote:</div>
    ==============================
    Rambill

    Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport 1d1

    NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
    NFL has no comment at this time and Patriots say they will continue to cooperate with the investigation. More on SpotrsCenter.

    If true, Belichick needs to be suspended for a year. They set a precedent with Sean Payton.

    I havent formed an opinion on this yet, but let me just ask — how would deflating the balls help only one team? I mean they were deflated for both teams. How did it help the Pats and not help the Colts?

    w
    v

    #17005
    bnw
    Blocked

    ==============================
    Rambill

    Chris Mortensen ‏@mortreport 1d1

    NFL has found that 11 of the Patriots footballs used in Sunday’s AFC title game were under-inflated by 2 lbs each, per league sources.
    NFL has no comment at this time and Patriots say they will continue to cooperate with the investigation. More on SpotrsCenter.

    If true, Belichick needs to be suspended for a year. They set a precedent with Sean Payton.

    No, their trophy case needs to be cleared out, team and head coach fined and loss of top three draft picks. If not then cheaters continue to prosper. Need to address the officials involvement too.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17006
    bnw
    Blocked

    You wondering about the spying-cheating or
    the deflating-cheating?

    w
    v

    What part of cheating are you having difficulty grasping? Cheaters cheat to gain an advantage or they wouldn’t do it. It is so simple. Rams fans were screwed but that was Georgia’s team. Raiders fans were screwed but that was Al’s team. Every Patriots playoff win is highly suspect this century. The numerous AFC playoff victims should be demanding action. So should the Rams but that is negotiable when a league vote on a possible move is at stake.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17010
    bnw
    Blocked

    The Patriots have an entrenched culture of cheating. To have this happen after their well documented sordid history proves it.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17014
    Avatar photowv
    Participant
    #17037
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Give the Devil his due.

    w
    v

    Yeah. Allow him to introduce himself.

    s

    #17039
    PA Ram
    Participant

    If they were both playing with deflated balls how did one team have an advantage?

    I get that Bellicheat will do anything to win. I’m just wondering in this particular case how his team had the edge over the other one. Were they playing with different balls? Do they practice with deflated balls?

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #17049
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    If they were both playing with deflated balls how did one team have an advantage?

    This doesn’t really answer your question. Just more info.

    Mark Brunell discusses the advantage of using a football that is underinflated and what he preferred to use when he played.

    http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12203979

    .,

    #17050
    lyser
    Participant

    I don’t think we know WHO played with the deflated balls yet and what the advantage was. Assuming a better grip in shitty conditions. What if Brady got this advantage but Luck didn’t? Just cause they were not caught cheating post spygate doesn’t mean they didn’t. They have a history. TAINTED. I don’t know how many SB they would have won if they had not cheated. Nobody does. Shame because maybe they are great or maybe they won only because they cheated. We don’t know. TAINTED.

    #17051
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Saw this on ESPN:

    http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game?ex_cid=sportscenterFB

    The NFL began looking into the issue because doctoring the footballs could provide a competitive advantage, compromising the integrity of the game.

    Deflating a football can change the way it’s gripped by a player or the way it travels through the air. Under NFL rules, each team provides balls each game for use when its offense is on the field. The balls are inspected before the game by the officiating crew, then handled during the game by home-team personnel.

    Furthermore, Brady told WEEI radio in November 2011 that he likes using underinflated footballs.

    It almost sounds like each team uses its own balls on offense.

    If true that would be the advantage.

    Colts had properly inflated balls/ Pats didn’t.

    If that’s how it works.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #17052
    lyser
    Participant

    Yeah – so Brady gets the advantage and Luck doesn’t. Clear cheating. Sounds like they were probably altered post inspection. Probably. Who did it? Investigation ongoing. What if Brady did it? What if he had some needle tech in his gloves or uni that let a little air out? What if it was ordered by Bellicheat? Let’s see if the NFL does a real investigation this time. Could be VERY damaging to the league. What if the officials were in on it? Since its all about $$$, I bet this gets swept under the rug….again. The NFL is going to protect their own. The whole thing sucks. The Patriots suck. Thing is, they would be good without this crap, but would they be great???

    #17053
    PA Ram
    Participant

    I was kind of …eh…on the Superbowl. I wanted the Seahawks to win because I detest the Pats. But now I REALLY want them to win.

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #17054
    bnw
    Blocked

    What a stupid system. Like taking candy from a baby. Why don’t the officials [excuse me] handle the balls exclusively? Why can’t they have someone in charge of the balls including the inflating of the balls and handing a new ball into play? Since none of this is done why wouldn’t the officials become familiar with the feel of a properly inflated ball and air gage a new ball put in play?

    Must be the official difference between entertainment and sport. NFL is entertainment not sport. NFL wants the Patriots to win then with the help of the officials the Patriots will win. Otherwise the Patriots are left alone to win by cheating if they can.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17057
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I haven’t even read this yet. So, don’t kill the article poster. s

    ===

    Gordon: Belichick’s critics are indulging in loser talk

    By Jeff Gordon

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordon-belichick-s-critics-are-indulging-in-loser-talk/article_e54562d0-6968-5160-94cc-b07ba962e6b5.html

    New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick seeks every possible advantage over his foes.

    This is who he is. This is what he does. Belichick doesn’t make a lot of friends while grinding out victories, but he seems OK with that.

    Earlier in the playoffs the Patriots duped the Baltimore Ravens with a formation ruse, creating mass confusion. Which players were eligible receivers and which weren’t?

    After the game, reporters raised the issue with Patriots quarterback Tom Brady. He dismissed the Ravens’ complaints with the figurative back of his hand.

    “Maybe those guys got to study the rule book and figure it out,” Brady sniffed. “We obviously knew what we were doing, and we made some pretty important plays … I don’t know what’s deceiving about that. They should figure it out.”

    Now we have a big hoo-ha over the (allegedly) deflated footballs the Patriots used on offense during the AFC championship game.

    The weight of the footballs hardly mattered against the Colts. The Patriots won 45-7. They dominated from start to finish.

    The tampering allegations seem irrelevant. The Patriots could have replaced regulation footballs with almost any inanimate object and kept rolling.

    Toaster ovens, clock radios, stuffed wolverines, grandma’s purse … it appeared almost anything would have worked for them against Indianapolis.

    They blocked. They tackled. They imposed their will. The Colts have no beef and neither does anybody else.

    The Patriots haven’t cheated their way to constant contention during Belichick’s reign. They stayed in the chase with brilliant coaching, tremendous quarterback play and a total franchise commitment to winning.

    But the Patriots do have a reputation for pulling shenanigans, most famously in the “Spygate” controversy in 2007. Team operatives videotaped the defensive signals by their opponents and got nabbed.

    The league’s decision to destroy the evidence gathered in that investigation smacked of a cover-up. What exactly was on those tapes? How damning was the evidence?

    Since fans didn’t get to find out, their imaginations ran wild.

    Rams fans will go to their graves believing the Patriots stole Super Bowl XXXVI because the team videotaped coach Mike Martz’s walk-through session at the end of the practice week.

    The Boston Herald reported that allegation in 2008, then walked it back. The Patriots denied the illicit taping and no hard evidence came to light.

    Still, former Rams great Marshall Faulk is among those who have wondered aloud about these allegations, other “Spygate” revelations, the subsequent NFL sanctions and the Patriots’ inability to win a Super Bowl since then.

    “The question is, how did they become a championship team?” Faulk asked WEEI radio this time last year. “Listen, I’m not going to be the only one to say this: Ever since they got fined and, ‘OK, we’re not doing that anymore,’ they’ve won how many Super Bowls?”

    Well, none yet, but it’s not like the Patriots went into the tank after absorbing that league wrist slap.

    Since “Spygate” became all the rage, the Patriots have posted a 99-28 regular-season record. They have won seven AFC East Division titles, eight playoff games and three AFC championships.

    Since that fateful Super Bowl XXXVI in New Orleans, the Patriots have only missed the playoffs twice. Such success in the parity-driven NFL is astounding.

    Just ask the Rams. They have only made the playoffs twice since that game, and one of those excursions came after an 8-8 season.

    Things turned bad for them in 2005 and stayed bad. While the Patriots kept winning, the Rams went 6-10, 8-8, 3-13. 2-14, 1-15, 7-9, 2-14, 7-8-1, 7-9 and 6-10 in consecutive seasons.

    That Super Bowl XXXVI loss seemed to break Martz as a head coach. He waited too long to make adjustments to New England’s aggressive pass coverage.

    His players made too many big mistakes. Their big comeback started too late. The loss crushed him.

    Martz began unraveling, as did the “Greatest Show on Turf.” He exited the Rams during the 2005 season and never got to run his own team again.

    (Perhaps Martz can revive his career in Cleveland if the Browns bring him on board as offensive coordinator. Imagine him working with quarterback Johnny Manziel. Mad Mike + Johnny Football = endless entertainment!)

    After Martz’s demise at Rams Park, Joe Vitt, Scott Linehan, Jim Haslett, Steve Spagnuolo and Jeff Fisher took their turns failing.

    Meanwhile the Patriots just kept winning. Folks can question the legitimacy of that sustained success, but that’s just loser talk.

    Belichick is the NFL’s best coach. He keeps winning while operating on his own terms.

    He dresses for games like he is headed to a Dumpster dive. His dour public countenance reinforces his cold-blooded manner.

    The cocksure Brady gives him the ultimate advantage. Other players come and go, assistant coaches come and go, personnel guys come and go, but Belichick just keeps winning.

    Now the hooded genius is headed back to the Super Bowl stage. He will stand in the media glare and glare right back.

    Somebody will ask about deflated footballs and cheating and integrity. Belichick will utter a non-answer or two.

    Then he will go right back to work, looking for the edge.

    #17058
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Some Matt Leinart tweets:

    Matt Leinart @MattLeinartQB · 1h 1 hour ago
    Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous

    Matt Leinart @MattLeinartQB · 29m 29 minutes ago
    Actually my guy @kurt13warner didn’t tamper w the footballs because he wore gloves. Used to irritate me..So correction, almost all QBs! Lol

    https://twitter.com/MattLeinartQB

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #17059
    PA Ram
    Participant

    Peter King ‏@SI_PeterKing 50m50 minutes ago
    RT @MrKnighton2u: If footballs were deflated by that amount, definitely cheating. Harder to fumble, easier to catch. Helps you throw further

    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

    #17061
    lyser
    Participant

    That Gordon article is complete crap IMO. The formation shenanigans against the Raven’s were legal. I’m sure they will adjust the rule. Spygate? Definite cheating. If the Pats tampered with the balls? Definite cheating.

    Comparing to the Ram’s fortunes’? Irrelevant.

    Comparing to the formations stuff? Irrelevant.

    The rules are there to be followed, if you break them, it is cheating. Law works the same way.

    The NFL has to decide if this impacts their bottom line or corrupts the system further. Will fans stop watching? Probably not right now. Will other coaches/organizations start cheating every chance they get? I guess they should, that is how you win Super Bowls – isn’t that the message? If that happens, will fans stay interested? Questionable. I know I could not root for my team/bet on games/enjoy the league if it descended into a “Only Cheaters Win” situation.

    #17062
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    ;Actually my guy @kurt13warner didn’t tamper w the footballs because he wore gloves. Used to irritate me..So correction, almost all QBs!

    1) Maybe Leinart did this at USC with cheating Pete Carroll
    2) If Leinart did this in the NFL, it certainly didn’t help him.

    I think all this talk is firing up New England… I think they’re going to cream Seattle. R. Wilson played like crap last week……

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photojoemad.
    #17065
    Dak
    Participant

    I havent formed an opinion on this yet, but let me just ask — how would deflating the balls help only one team? I mean they were deflated for both teams. How did it help the Pats and not help the Colts?

    w
    v

    I think this has been answered since you posed the question, but it doesn’t matter if the cheating actually helped New England. If they cheat, they must expect an advantage. Cheating itself is the issue.

    I’m waiting to hear what actually comes of the investigation before I chime in much more. But, cheating itself is all that matters. I don’t care if New England made it WORSE on themselves while cheating. Good, if that’s the case. But, it just doesn’t matter. It’s all about the cavalier attitude toward the rules, as if they don’t apply to the Patriots. We already know that they’re willing to cheat, so it shouldn’t be a surprise if Bill did it again.

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Dak.
    #17067
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    Seems to me that Bill Belichick is a habitual cheater….. .. Like I said on this thread earlier, Carroll (especially back at USC) and Belichick push the envelope to get away with all they can.. no coincendence that their teams are #1 and #2 respectively in penalties this year… they’re only flagged when they get caught.

    deflating balls………I see this like a pitcher doctoring a baseball, you get suspended for pulling that shit.

    #17068
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I don’t think we know WHO played with the deflated balls yet and what the advantage was. Assuming a better grip in shitty conditions. What if Brady got this advantage but Luck didn’t? Just cause they were not caught cheating post spygate doesn’t mean they didn’t. They have a history. TAINTED. I don’t know how many SB they would have won if they had not cheated. Nobody does. Shame because maybe they are great or maybe they won only because they cheated.

    We don’t know.

    TAINTED.

    Yeah, i got no problem with “we dont know” and perhaps “tainted.”

    But thats not the same as “Light the Torches
    and burn them in the Iron Maiden.”

    Also, i disagree with those that think “cheating is cheating
    whether it helps the Pats or not.”
    I think there is a significant difference between “cheating
    that helps” and “cheating that doesnt”. Its like one
    is a traffic violation, and one is a Felony. Kinda.

    I’m amazed, btw, that the Refs dont weigh all the balls
    and check on that stuff before and during the game.
    I’m sure the NFL will NOW make some changes.

    I’m having a little trouble believing that that
    total butt-whipping the Pats gave the idiot-Colts
    was because of “deflated footballs.” I’m
    having trouble buying that. Nobody needs
    to cheat to beat the Colts in the playoffs.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #17069
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    let’s be clear. on offense one team uses their balls exclusively. the other team uses their balls exclusively when they’re on offense.

    so yeah it can create an advantage. for sure. would it have made a difference of 30 points? probably not. but it definitely makes a difference.

    #17071
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    let’s be clear. on offense one team uses their balls exclusively. the other team uses their balls exclusively when they’re on offense.

    so yeah it can create an advantage. for sure. would it have made a difference of 30 points? probably not. but it definitely makes a difference.

    Can you picture some of the Signs
    at the Super Bowl now 🙂

    There’s gonna be a lot of signs
    with ball on Scales and such,
    i figure.

    Unless the NFL bans signs.

    w
    v

    #17073
    bnw
    Blocked

    Gordon didn’t watch XXXVI because it wasn’t “aggressive pass coverage” the Patriots used it was the officials refusing to call penalties on their coverage. The fix was in.

    About Martz what else could he do other than run Faulk more? He’s still counting on the officials to do their job. It wouldn’t have mattered since the officials were not going to do their job. The fix was in.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #17074
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    media week should be pretty entertaining too. i hope. they should really give the pats a hard time with that. that’d be fun.

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