Matt Taibbi, Katie Halpern with….

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  • #107257
    wv
    Participant

    I’ll start putting these in the same thread. Keep em all in one thread.

    This one is Abby Martin

    #107260
    wv
    Participant

    Just skip to the 20 minute 40 second point in that Vid, if you decide to watch it. The first twenty mins is just more of the usual about Hillary and the Dem Media smearing Tulsi.

    Abby Matt and Katie talk about RT. I’d be curious to hear anyone else’s thots about Matt, Katie, Abby’s discussion on RT. Am i the only one here who agrees with Abby about RT? I think it has the best accessible, lucid, reporting on America that I can find. It doesn’t cover Russia, and I dont care that it doesnt cover Russia. I can find out about Russia from other sources.

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    #107263
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    The woman they were interviewing mentioned she worked for a news agency started by Fidel Castro and Chavez to combat corporate media that was usurping their democratic processes?

    Castro did some good things for the poor of Cuba. He certainly did more for them than Batista, but he wasn’t exactly a standard bearer for democracy. He had total control over all aspects of the government and ruthlessly crushed dissenters and political adversaries. Plus the Cuban press was one of the most censored in the world when he was Premier.

    What am I missing?

    #107264
    wv
    Participant

    The woman they were interviewing mentioned she worked for a news agency started by Fidel Castro and Chavez to combat corporate media that was usurping their democratic processes?

    Castro did some good things for the poor of Cuba. He certainly did more for them than Batista, but he wasn’t exactly a standard bearer for democracy. He had total control over all aspects of the government and ruthlessly crushed dissenters and political adversaries. Plus the Cuban press was one of the most censored in the world when he was Premier.

    What am I missing?

    ======================

    Yeah, I picked up on that too, but it just doesnt bother me. She wasnt talking about RT at that point, she was talking about Telesur:https://www.youtube.com/user/telesurenglish/videos
    But I like Telesur too, fwiw.

    Chavez was constantly under attack by the CIA and the Corporate-Media. Whats wrong with him trying to combat that by starting up a media site like TeleSur?

    Castro and Chavez were different animals. One was elected over and over, right? But they admired each other and were friends and both hated the CIA/deep-state/corporotacracy. With good reason. At any rate, if you are a socialist being attacked by the CIA, why wouldnt you want to start a media company that got your point of view into American computer screens? I mean, what is the alternative? Just allow the capitalist-corporate-empire to spread its version of truth and let that go unchallenged? It just seems to me RT and TeleSur provide an anti-Empire, anti-AMERICAN-imperialist point of view. They do ‘not’ provide an anti CASTRO-crimes or Putin-Crimes point of view. I get that. So I have to rely on other sites for info on Castro and Putin. That doesnt take away from what RT and TeleSur give me.

    I swear I get WAAAAAY more truth from Chris Hedges and Lee Camp on RT than i do from NPR, CNN, FOX, the NYTimes and MSNBC combined.

    I know its ‘all’ problematic and complicated. No matter what source we choose to talk about.

    Do you think Chris Hedges is a Russian Asset? 🙂

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    #107267
    nittany ram
    Moderator

    I swear I get WAAAAAY more truth from Chris Hedges and Lee Camp on RT than i do from NPR, CNN, FOX, the NYTimes and MSNBC combined.

    I don’t know enough about RT to comment on its accuracy. I’ve seen Lee Camp and have enjoyed his broadcasts. I haven’t seen many but I generally agree with his opinions. I’ve read some of the accusations about RT being a Russian propaganda outlet. They are state-owned and funded by the Russian govt which gives me pause, but I don’t know enough about it yet to have opinion about the validity of the propaganda accusation.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by nittany ram.
    #107271
    wv
    Participant

    … don’t know enough about it yet to have opinion about the validity of the propaganda accusation.

    ====================

    Well what does foreign ‘propaganda’ even mean, when we live in a Corporate-Imperialist-Propaganda-State?

    I mean we are already drenched, inundated, drowning in American-corporate-imperialist propaganda, so…if foreign ‘propoganda’ puts Chris Hedges on American screens, to talk about American Imperialism….then I’m all for foreign propaganda.

    Its similar to the Wikileaks thing for me. I dont CARE where the Hillary-Emails came from. I dont care if it was a russian hack or if they were downloaded by a whistleblower and then given to Wikileaks — i dont care if Hitler was behind it — thats all secondary. What i care more about was that the emails were FACTUAL. They shed some much needed light on the American system. I feel the same way about RT. I dont care what the agenda is of powers-that-made-RT — all i care about is that they put Chris Hedges on. And I trust ‘his’ agenda, coz its factual.

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    #107272
    zn
    Moderator

    Well what does foreign ‘propaganda’ even mean, when we live in a Corporate-Imperialist-Propaganda-State?

    Well it means THEIR propaganda, serving the interests of THEIR ruling oligarchs, as opposed to the local homespun propaganda serving the interests of our oligarchs.

    #107275
    Zooey
    Moderator

    Yeah, RT and the rest of it are just more ingredients in the kitchen to me. I care about their source, the same way I care about everything else, and I don’t dismiss anything out of hand. I just factor stuff in the best I can.

    But I rarely watch ANY news source. I’m a reader. I choose what I want to read, and how carefully I read it, and I don’t have that kind of control over TV news.

    #107394
    Billy_T
    Participant

    Mirrors. Geopolitical mirrors. I can easily imagine a CIA-backed “alternative” media company, doing the same thing in Russia or another nation as RT does here. Selected dissidents in those nations would gather as “the only truth-tellers around,” thereby helping the American empire, while sowing discord in that home country.

    To me, if someone has a problem with a CIA-backed propaganda operation, they should have a problem with RT. And it’s not as if we can’t find independent print journalism by these same people, without RT being at all involved.

    That said, I agree that the “guilt by association” meme is ugly and dangerous. It’s a favorite of mainstream Dems — to cast anyone who can be placed in an RT Venn diagram as a “Russia asset” . . . is “deplorable.” And I’ve long thought the people who keep blaming Jill Stein for the loss need to take remedial math courses and study counterfactuals too. I usually show them these numbers for 2016, and it still doesn’t make a dent:

    105 million people stayed home
    66 million voted for HRC
    63 million voted for Trump
    4.5 million voted for Gary Johnson
    1.4 million voted for Jill Stein

    In no known universe can the smallest number on that list be the “decisive” factor.

    #107395
    Billy_T
    Participant

    To add a tad to the Stein thingy. Voting for Stein had absolutely zero impact on the election results, in any state with a majority vote for HRC. It happened in my state. My own vote for Stein was cancelled out because HRC won.

    That’s the way the EC system works. I think it’s deeply anti-democratic, and we need to go to a national, popular vote, but it is what it is. We’re stuck with it for now.

    There are already a thousand and one ways in which the Dems and the Republicans make life next to impossible for third parties. Rather than whining about a few million votes, maybe the major parties should find ways to earn them via their deeds instead. Give people actual reasons to vote for the two major parties, rather than moan about how unfair everything is.

    Ironically, the people with legit rationales for complaint are those third party candidates, not the Dems or the Republicans.

    #107399
    wv
    Participant

    105 million people stayed home
    66 million voted for HRC
    63 million voted for Trump
    4.5 million voted for Gary Johnson
    1.4 million voted for Jill Stein

    In no known universe can the smallest number on that list be the “decisive” factor.

    ======================

    I blame The Party For Socialism And Liberation — 74,402 votes.
    wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election

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    #107401
    Billy_T
    Participant

    105 million people stayed home
    66 million voted for HRC
    63 million voted for Trump
    4.5 million voted for Gary Johnson
    1.4 million voted for Jill Stein

    In no known universe can the smallest number on that list be the “decisive” factor.

    ======================

    I blame The Party For Socialism And Liberation — 74,402 votes.
    wiki:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election

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    You need to tell Hillary. ;>)

    She’ll call them a “Russian asset” too. Which, of course, is yet another irony. Russia under Putin is far-right. He’s helped far-right parties and candidates all over the world. He became perhaps the richest man in the world because Russia privatized everything public after 1991, and he and his oligarchical buddies made a killing.

    Of course, in America, we never had much of a “Commons” to begin with, so our oligarchs have always had private control. But they didn’t have the same Gold Rush opportunities as the Russians after 1991.

    Sidenote on my Stein vote. I would have chosen someone well to her left if he or she were on the ballot. The Greens were the only option beyond the duopoly. I do think their platform is a hell of a lot better than the Dems/GOP’s. It’s not close. But they’re not anticapitalists per se. If I had my druthers, that’s who I’d vote for every time.

    To me, the root of all our problems stems from an economic system that makes it legal for humans to own the economic output of other humans. I’d limit that to one’s own. You get to own your own output, not anyone else’s. Once the economic entity in question grows beyond that one human, it’s co-ownership or it’s not legal.

    A person or party that seeks the complete and wholesale removal and replacement of capitalism with true democratic, radical egalitarian, localized, self-rule will get my full commitment.

    Closest thing we have right now to a viable alternative, to me, is the DSA.

    #107612
    wv
    Participant

    #108495
    wv
    Participant

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