Local Sportswriters and the R word

znhater wrote:

This is just getting ridiculous. I thought this was a football forum?

It is. And on most Rams boards, the Washington team name issue isn’t permitted. Here, so far…and who knows how long…we have kept it on the football forum because we think people can discuss it and differ in a civil way. It’s one of the things the board takes pride in…we just don’t have conflicts like that. Looking at it from that perspective, arguably, controversies are part of the NFL and so controversies over a team’s name can be seen as part of discussing the NFL (same as, for example, players and domestic abuse).

Still, some issues just might be too volatile. Is this one of them? I know we (as a group) have been back n forth. Previously, months ago, the posters at the buzz voted that all politically charged issues should be off the football board. But then, there was a kind of change on the new huddle, and the thought was, it could work on the football board.

But if people want this moved to the other forum (“The Public House”) then, that’s how we’ll do it.

I am open to any decision the posters themselves make.

Discuss?

znhater wrote:

It’s just to me this should be a non issue.

That’s fine. As long as you acknowledge that there are a myriad of opinions on this subject that are equally as valid as the ‘non-issue’ viewpoint. Some of us find the term Redskin to be self evidently offensive due to its historical connotation. Yeah there are native Americans who don’t really care about the word but there are also native Americans and others who are offended by it and their opinions have to count for something too, right?

zn wrote:

nittany ram wrote:

Rams4life wrote:
It’s just to me this should be a non issue.

That’s fine. As long as you acknowledge that there are a myriad of opinions on this subject that are equally as valid as the ‘non-issue’ viewpoint. Some of us find the term Redskin to be self evidently offensive due to its historical connotation. Yeah there are native Americans who don’t really care about the word but there are also native Americans and others who are offended by it and their opinions have to count for something too, right?

The question remains, is this too political a subject to be on the football forum?

As you know, this community has gone back and forth on that.

Well, even though it’s imcredibly controverial it is a football topic. So in that sense it should be fair game here. But I also know what has happened on past boards when things got political so…
I dunno. I’ll be fine with it if you move it to the public forum.

znhater wrote:

It’s just to me this should be a non issue. No one minded calling them the redskins for all those years. And now, some people who aren’t even Indian thinks it’s offensive. Hell, Snyder even had some native Americans in the booth with him sporting redskins gear a couple of weeks ago.

People that say “the r word” or the “Washington team” are just adding fuel to the fire imo. It’s only derogatory if used that way, and in 44 years of living i have never used it or heard it used that way. My grams was full blooded Cherokee and i never heard get say anything about a redskin or say that it offended her. Just my 2 cents worth.

I’ll just point this out.

In the mainstream world of the American majority … no one minded the name for decades. Not on the surface. Not in mainstream public discourse.

That is a long way away from saying that “no one minded.” What bothers minorities is virtually always invisible to majorities … until the minorities are allowed to express themselves. Indeed until they learn HOW to express themselves. Generally, when that begins to happen, the majority is shocked. “Where has all this come from?” And it instinctively trivializes disaffection and alienation expressed by the minority. “Suddenly everyone is taking offense at these little things that don’t matter. Non-issues.”

Well, they’re not non-issues to the minority. Or, at least, to significant members of the minority. There will of course always be diversity of response. Snyder can certainly find individual Native Americans willing to express an affirming reaction. That’s fine. They can do that.

It doesn’t change the fact that many Native Americans feel quite differently about it. Indeed, it doesn’t change the fact that many AMERICANS feel differently about it. Many members of the mainstream are offended. I am. WV is. Apparently, significant numbers of professional journalists are, so much so that they are changing their behavior.

It is an issue, a significant issue, because many Americans feel it is a significant issue. You are perfectly free to feel personally that it shouldn’t be. Your experience may tell you that it would be a non-issue to certain individuals you know. But for many Americans, it is a highly significant issue. And they are free to feel that.

What one cannot honestly do is to say that, since it didn’t pop up in mainstream discourse previously, it was never a matter for anyone. That’s like saying that, because we never hear on mainstream media or common conversation about how Sikhs or Basques or Innuits or Tagalogs or stamp collectors or train spotters or Hmongs or calligraphers or chess players feel that their concerns are non-issues.

American society changed significantly in the mid-1960s. It did not stop being racist. Issues of prejudice and discrimination were not eliminated. But something changed.

What happened was quite simply that minorities discovered that they could speak up for their perspective. That’s the biggest difference between now and a time in which a fictional North Carolina town called Mayberry could simply erase all the black faces from its streets. It simply isn’t easy any more to silence the voices of those who take offense at being disrespected and alienated by the mainstream. They don’t suffer in silence any more.

What that means is that, as the decades roll by, sources of suffering which had long remained invisible, “non-issues” to the mainstream get brought forward so that their seriousness has to be dealt with. The suppressed non-issue becomes perceived as the issue it always was.

Again, you can decide if you wish that this should not be so. But you can’t say it has never been an issue or that the thousands of Americans who feel it is an issue don’t have every bit as much right to tell you when they’re pissed off. And guess what–Native Americans have a LOT of good reason to be pissed off! Hell, I’m pissed off with them.

rfl wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Rams4life wrote:</div>
It’s just to me this should be a non issue. No one minded calling them the redskins for all those years. And now, some people who aren’t even Indian thinks it’s offensive. Hell, Snyder even had some native Americans in the booth with him sporting redskins gear a couple of weeks ago.

People that say “the r word” or the “Washington team” are just adding fuel to the fire imo. It’s only derogatory if used that way, and in 44 years of living i have never used it or heard it used that way. My grams was full blooded Cherokee and i never heard get say anything about a redskin or say that it offended her. Just my 2 cents worth.

I’ll just point this out.

In the mainstream world of the American majority … no one minded the name for decades. Not on the surface. Not in mainstream public discourse.

That is a long way away from saying that “no one minded.” What bothers minorities is virtually always invisible to majorities … until the minorities are allowed to express themselves. Indeed until they learn HOW to express themselves. Generally, when that begins to happen, the majority is shocked. “Where has all this come from?” And it instinctively trivializes disaffection and alienation expressed by the minority. “Suddenly everyone is taking offense at these little things that don’t matter. Non-issues.”

Well, they’re not non-issues to the minority. Or, at least, to significant members of the minority. There will of course always be diversity of response. Snyder can certainly find individual Native Americans willing to express an affirming reaction. That’s fine. They can do that.

It doesn’t change the fact that many Native Americans feel quite differently about it. Indeed, it doesn’t change the fact that many AMERICANS feel differently about it. Many members of the mainstream are offended. I am. WV is. Apparently, significant numbers of professional journalists are, so much so that they are changing their behavior.

It is an issue, a significant issue, because many Americans feel it is a significant issue. You are perfectly free to feel personally that it shouldn’t be. Your experience may tell you that it would be a non-issue to certain individuals you know. But for many Americans, it is a highly significant issue. And they are free to feel that.

What one cannot honestly do is to say that, since it didn’t pop up in mainstream discourse previously, it was never a matter for anyone. That’s like saying that, because we never hear on mainstream media or common conversation about how Sikhs or Basques or Innuits or Tagalogs or stamp collectors or train spotters or Hmongs or calligraphers or chess players feel that their concerns are non-issues.

American society changed significantly in the mid-1960s. It did not stop being racist. Issues of prejudice and discrimination were not eliminated. But something changed.

What happened was quite simply that minorities discovered that they could speak up for their perspective. That’s the biggest difference between now and a time in which a fictional North Carolina town called Mayberry could simply erase all the black faces from its streets. It simply isn’t easy any more to silence the voices of those who take offense at being disrespected and alienated by the mainstream. They don’t suffer in silence any more.

What that means is that, as the decades roll by, sources of suffering which had long remained invisible, “non-issues” to the mainstream get brought forward so that their seriousness has to be dealt with. The suppressed non-issue becomes perceived as the issue it always was.

Again, you can decide if you wish that this should not be so. But you can’t say it has never been an issue or that the thousands of Americans who feel it is an issue don’t have every bit as much right to tell you when they’re pissed off. And guess what–Native Americans have a LOT of good reason to be pissed off! Hell, I’m pissed off with them.

That pretty much crystallizes my thoughts.

My personal feeling is that once I knew about the controversy, I wanted to learn more. And, I hope that Washington changes its names to something else. But, because they have such a strong brand that resonates with long-time fans, that’s more important to Daniel Snyder.

I also wish more Americans would look more deeply into issues that are bothering marginalized Americans just to understand the WHY and HOW the issue is a problem, and to open a discussion. And, that’s my biggest wish: That Americans could have open, civil discussions about controversial subjects. I’m proud of this board for having those discussions. So, I’m OK with this topic staying on the football board.

znhater wrote:

This has officially become a political post. Time to move it i think.

I think you’re right…there were several posts in a row that did not even mention the Washington team name issue, and were more about race fractures in the USA today.

For the time being I compromised, and moved those posts to a new thread in the Public House forum. It actually reads as a free-standing, coherent, distinct and separate thread. —>

http://theramshuddle.com/topic/race-issues-depressing/

What remains is at least about the Washington team name issue. It is still an open question whether that belongs on this board or the Public Forum.

..