Latest DNC reason why Hillory lost

wv wrote:

I suppose it doesnt really matter why she lost — what matters is who is going to win the meme-battle among the folks trying to tell the STORY of why she lost. I mean what matters NOW is just what STORY the public is going to BELIEVE about why she lost. Because the DNC is going to tell ‘one’ story (she lost because of the Russians, Cheating, Bernie, Dum-people, etc) And the progressives are going to tell ‘another’ story — she lost because of her neoliberal fuck-the-poor policies and because she’s totally unethical and a lying weasel.

If the DNC story wins the day, the Dems will continue to be the disgusting creepshow they are now.
If the Progressive story wins the day, the Dems have a chance at cleaning up their act.

I’m not optimistic about the progressives, but i got a flicker of hope. Just a flicker.

w
v

Well said.

Greenwald also notes that Obama leaves office with high approval ratings, suggesting there’s little evidence to show that racism is any more an issue in 2016 than it was in 2008 and 2012:

What a ridiculous supposition. Obama’s approval ratings say nothing about the amount of racism that exists in the country at any given time. They are completely unrelated.

mmmm

• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by bnw.

wv wrote:

i dont see why racism would be any ‘more‘ of an issue than in 2012 or earlier.

It’s not. It wouldn’t even be a talking point if Killary was elected either. Now, all you have to do is hint at it existing within the system, and all hell breaks loose. Dog whistle politics.

wv wrote:

So, to sum up. And imho.
1) There is indeed a real, active, much-discussed ‘southern strategy’ used by Nixon/Bush/Reagan/Bush/Trump. That strategy in subtle and not-so-subtle ways ‘invites’ the overt, organized, and unorganized White-Racist bloc of voters to feel at home in the Rep Party. The Dems do not ‘do that’. As bad as they are, they dont do ‘that’.
2) There are plenty of other NON-racist voting-blocs in the Rep Party. Evangelicals, Top 1 percenters, etc.
3) There are racist voters who vote Dem, too. But there is no ‘Dem Southern Strategy’ to capture them or “Dem northern strategy” to capture them, etc.
4) I think the Race issue leaned on too much by the left, and denied totally by the Right.

Themz my views, in an oversimplified way.

Well, let’s talk about *that* then. What are these subtle and not-so-subtle ways the right invites that fringe into the fold? By talking about real issues like immigration? Is there a way to do that without introducing the fact that it actually *is* other races that are pouring over the border in record numbers? As I said a little while back, I would feel the same about immigration reform if there were thousands of Swedes or Germans pouring across. It’s a security and economic issue (for me, at least).

Or maybe it’s using phrases like “inner city”? That’s a real thing. Inner cities. Talking about the very real problems within those areas isn’t done so at the expense of the African American race as a whole. But I did see it spun that way by the Dems. They more or less insinuated that Trump was saying there aren’t any functioning or affluent African American communities. So, yeah.

To that end, I submit that Dems *do* use a similar tactic. They distort the real meaning behind Republican talking points to that of ‘hate’ or ‘racism’ or ‘intolerance’, and they do that in order to attract and cater to the far left.

Am I off on any of that?

— X — wrote:

wv wrote:

So, to sum up. And imho.
1) There is indeed a real, active, much-discussed ‘southern strategy’ used by Nixon/Bush/Reagan/Bush/Trump. That strategy in subtle and not-so-subtle ways ‘invites’ the overt, organized, and unorganized White-Racist bloc of voters to feel at home in the Rep Party. The Dems do not ‘do that’. As bad as they are, they dont do ‘that’.
2) There are plenty of other NON-racist voting-blocs in the Rep Party. Evangelicals, Top 1 percenters, etc.
3) There are racist voters who vote Dem, too. But there is no ‘Dem Southern Strategy’ to capture them or “Dem northern strategy” to capture them, etc.
4) I think the Race issue leaned on too much by the left, and denied totally by the Right.

Themz my views, in an oversimplified way.

Well, let’s talk about *that* then. What are these subtle and not-so-subtle ways the right invites that fringe into the fold? By talking about real issues like immigration? Is there a way to do that without introducing the fact that it actually *is* other races that are pouring over the border in record numbers? As I said a little while back, I would feel the same about immigration reform if there were thousands of Swedes or Germans pouring across. It’s a security and economic issue (for me, at least).

Or maybe it’s using phrases like “inner city”? That’s a real thing. Inner cities. Talking about the very real problems within those areas isn’t done so at the expense of the African American race as a whole. But I did see it spun that way by the Dems. They more or less insinuated that Trump was saying there aren’t any functioning or affluent African American communities. So, yeah.

To that end, I submit that Dems *do* use a similar tactic. They distort the real meaning behind Republican talking points to that of ‘hate’ or ‘racism’ or ‘intolerance’, and they do that in order to attract and cater to the far left.

Am I off on any of that?

No, you nailed it! It is an economic issue that the democrats spin as racism.

IMO, Trump is a racist, and said racist things, and surrounds himself with racists, and accepted without hesitation or apology the support of self-avowed racists.

But I don’t think it increased his vote. If anything, it increased Hillary’s. Because racists are not going to vote for a democrat, and not Hillary Clinton, anyway. So no increase in appeal amongst racists comes from what he said. Not all Republicans are racist. But the vast majority of racists are Republicans. Because they see Democrats as coddling minorities, something they greatly resent.

Trump’s racist comments, and the targeting of minorities at his rallies a couple of times, may have pushed more voters towards Hillary. There are a lot of people talking about how ANY other Democrat would have killed Trump, and that may be true. But as long as we are playing the hypothetical game, I bet if you went back and cleaned out the racist and misogynist grime from Trump’s persona, he would have wiped Clinton off the map almost completely.

I don’t know about dog whistles or Trump and his personal views on racism but there is no doubt that he was an attractive candidate for white power groups. They’ve been loud about that. So either they are hearing things that aren’t there or the KKK isn’t really a racist group. But he has certainly attracted those groups and some of those groups have acted out and are feeling emboldened by his presidency(according to many reports on incidents happening around the country). So whether he is one or not–they feel he represents them. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

As for Clinton: I can’t stand her.

I even agree with some of the things the Trump supporters say. I even share some of their concerns and doubts that Clinton would have addressed those things. I HOPE he does give a big middle finger to the Republican establishment and get some good things done. I will believe it when I see it, of course. But I hope he does.

But back to Clinton. The DNC insisted that she be the candidate. By God it was her fucking turn and don’t get in her way. Hillary supported that view.

DO NOT BLAME BERNIE!!!!!

He didn’t brainwash people, he tapped into feelings they were already having. She had no sense of that or dismissed those things until he FORCED her to pay attention. Nothing is Bernie’s fault.

I used to get into arguments on DU with rabid Clinton supporters and her supporters were just as bad as she was, in regard to Bernie. They attacked Bernie supporters constantly because he wasn’t ONE of them. He wasn’t a real Democrat and deserved no support. Clinton was uniquely qualified and yes–there were even those who called you a misogynist for not supporting her. They were horrible. They chased many Bernie supporters away from the site and were not interested in any conversation about the direction of the party. Clinton WAS the direction of the party. They were deaf to any other possibility. Even the admins held that view. They limited discussion after Clinton had won. Nothing negative about her was allowed.

They had no idea.

And now–since she won the popular vote with less votes than Obama, they will claim that she is the REAL president or they were right or yada yada yada.

They will have to accept a new reality or this party will die.

It will be interesting to watch.

But yes–I voted for her. No–not for her. Against Trump. And I’d do it again.

But I HOPE Trump proves me wrong. I WANT to be wrong.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by PA Ram.

Waiting to drink after 5:00 pm works for me and I’m not Irish.

— X — wrote:

You’re probably a kraut.

Slovak and Croatian with a minor in Kraut. Otherwise there would be no beer for anyone else.

PA Ram wrote:

One other thing about Clinton I have to get off my chest–something that bothered me about her campaign from the start and sort of said it all in regard to her cluelessness.

Her slogan: I’m With Her

Again–all about HER.

Yeah, I caught that too. Her whole campaign was rife with generic political slogans. Trump had the one, and it resonated, but hers were all over the place. “I’m With Her”, “Stronger Together”, “Deal Me In!”, etc. She responded to criticisms from the right with new slogans, seemingly, every week (e.g., Trumped Up, Trickle Down). Part of the initial strategy, it seems. To wit:

In an August 8, 2015, message to top aides, the campaign’s director of paid media, Oren Shur, attached a Word document with a list of would-be catchphrases and “organizing principle(s)” compiled by chief strategist Joel Benenson’s firm, BSG.

“Progress for the rest of us”
“A stronger America one family at a time”
“Lifting us up. Moving us forward.”
“Making America work. Together.”
“Progress for people”
“A new bargain we can count on.”
“Real Fairness; Real Solutions”
“New Solutions Real Results”
“A stronger America for a new day”
“America’s strength. America’s promise.”
“A fair chance for families”
“A fair fight for families”
“A force for families”
“A new bargain for a stronger America”
“It’s about time…and it’s about you.”
“The ideas we need and the strength to deliver”
“American strength from American families”
“Next begins with you”
“A better bargain for a better tomorrow”
“Fairness worth the fight”
“Fairness First.”
“Putting Fairness First”
“A fair chance to get ahead”
“Your family is her fight”
“A fighting chance for families”
“A new promise for a new time”
“An America built for you.”
“Putting America to work for you”
“Strength and fairness”
“A stronger America working for you”
“It’s your turn”
“Stronger at home”
“For an America that leads”
“Your future. Your terms.”
“Building tomorrow’s America”
“Secure the Future”
“For your family. For America’s future”
“It’s about you. It’s about time”
“Because your time is now”
“It’s your time”
“It’s about you.”
“Building a better tomorrow”
“Strength you can count on”
“A fair shot and a fair deal”
“Building a fairer future today”
“You’ve earned a fair shot”
“You’ve earned a fair chance”
“Renewing America’s promise”
“Renewing our basic bargain”
“Time for a better bargain.”
“Making America work for you”
“Our Families, Our Future”
“Hillary – For Fairness. For Families.”
“Get ahead. Stay ahead.”
“Families first”
“Fairness for all our families”
“Building a fairer future”
“Your family. Her fight”
“Your future is her fight”
“America gets strong when you get ahead”
“A better bargain. For all.”
“A promise you can count on”
“Together we’re strong”
“Strength for all our families”
“Getting ahead together”
“Moving Ahead. Together.”
“A future worth fighting for”
“Go further”
“No Quit”
“Own the future”
“Don’t turn back”
“Move ahead”
“Keep moving”
“Unleash opportunity”
“Move up”
“Climb higher”
“Rise Up”
“Fighting for Fairness. Fighting for you.”
“She’s got your back”
“Your future. Her fight.”
“An America that works for you.”
“A stronger tomorrow”
“Progress for all”

Mackeyser wrote:

Dat list…

Honestly, I’m kinda numb from so many words put together that mean literally nothing.

If we added some croutons and bacon, we’d have a helluva word salad.

Dressing on the side, of course…

I honestly tried to find one that *might* have resonated, but I got nuthin’.