Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › The epic ballad saga of La'el Collins
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May 3, 2015 at 7:17 pm #23903
InvaderRamModeratorsince he is no longer eligible for the 2016 draft.
sounds like he’s confident he’ll clear his name.
please let the rams sign this guy. please. there’s open competition for him to come in and grab a starting spot. he’ll be blocking for two very good young running back prospects. a team looking to establish its identity as a physical offense. i don’t think you could ask for a better situation. this would send the 2015 draft over the top.
May 3, 2015 at 7:28 pm #23907
MackeyserModeratorTeams still won’t sign him until they know his situation and have an idea when they’ll be able to get him into the building.
They’ll have to evaluate the logistics. And, of course, if there’s a chance he did it.
But yeah, if he’s clear and even if he might miss a bit of time, I’d jump on it…early.
He’s a 1st round talent who does what we want to do. Show some faith in the kid and watch him pay it back.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 3, 2015 at 7:29 pm #23908
CalParticipantI have a feeling he’ll be a Seahawk. Probably a pro bowl one too!
May 3, 2015 at 7:35 pm #23909InvaderRamModeratorhe’s going in monday. of course i’m assuming he’s innocent. and this is just some horrible misunderstanding. if there was any inkling of a reason to believe he did it, i would not sign him.
but yeah. this would essentially be a second first round pick. i don’t know what the ol situations for other teams is. but the rams have three spots open. i’d imagine he’d be in competition for two of those spots. this is a young offense. it will be a young offensive line. lots of exciting talent in the backfield. it would seem to me to be an appealing situation for an offensive lineman.
May 3, 2015 at 7:40 pm #23912MackeyserModeratorWell, we have an opening and his agent HAS to know that.
Plus, we have an owner who isn’t afraid to spend money on UDFAs.
Not sure what the UDFA situation is because all of the bonus money may be gone (I think teams are limited to $50K total in the bonus pool) for just about every team, but they could structure incentives that would allow him to earn significantly more money based on starting a certain number of games, etc.
Not sure what the CBA allows for rookies. If anything, it may just be that the Rams have a starting job opening and with getting Gurley and being an ascending team with Nick Foles and maybe being in LA next year, it might be the way to go.
I know I’d sell the potential starting job. Lots of teams will only sell “the competition”. We can sell that, but with his talent it would make it awful hard to want or need to sign Barks and that opens up other FA opportunities…
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 3, 2015 at 7:48 pm #23915
wvParticipantI have to say, I’m surprised no team
drafted him in the 6th or 7th round.Surprises me.
w
vMay 3, 2015 at 7:57 pm #23918
znModeratorI have to say, I’m surprised no team
drafted him in the 6th or 7th round.There was some kind of issue, like I think he said he would not sign a day 3 deal.
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May 3, 2015 at 7:59 pm #23919InvaderRamModeratorhonestly, i think teams took seriously his threat to sit out if drafted. because then he would be eligible for the 2016 draft. so there was no point. and i’ve also read this situation could actually work out for collins. as a udfa, he will be eligible for restricted free agency earlier. he is also eligible to sign an extension earlier and recoup any money he may have lost.
May 3, 2015 at 10:18 pm #23934MackeyserModeratorhe will also be able to pick his team, thus find the best situation to maximize his chances to start and potentially play for a decent team.
There aren’t many better situations for Collins than the Rams. They’re going all in on a rushing attack and have weapons and a young, veteran QB with a soph RB and an elite rookie RB coming in that will transform this team.
He’d be getting in on the ground floor.
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 3, 2015 at 10:29 pm #23935
ZooeyModeratorThis isn’t going to happen.
You let Collins sign as an UDFA and you’ve just killed the draft. What’s to stop any other player from doing the same thing?
No way the NFL is going to allow Collins to sign as a street free agent. Bad, bad precedent.
So forget that fantasy right now.
May 3, 2015 at 10:54 pm #23936
MaddyParticipantYou let Collins sign as an UDFA and you’ve just killed the draft. What’s to stop any other player from doing the same thing?
I may not understand what you are saying. Collins had to go through the draft without being selected. High quality players would have to do the same, wouldn’t they? The precedent is already in place, isn’t it?
May 3, 2015 at 11:50 pm #23938ZooeyModeratorYou let Collins sign as an UDFA and you’ve just killed the draft. What’s to stop any other player from doing the same thing?
I may not understand what you are saying. Collins had to go through the draft without being selected. High quality players would have to do the same, wouldn’t they? The precedent is already in place, isn’t it?
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh. I guess he did technically pass through the draft. But it’s hard to imagine he wouldn’t have been taken in the 6th or 7th if he hadn’t threatened not to sign. I guess if I’m the NFL, I don’t want players threatening not to sign if drafted lower than they value themselves, only to be signed as a FA. You don’t want to turn the NFL draft into a game of chicken.
May 4, 2015 at 1:23 am #23945MaddyParticipantYeahhhhhhhhhhhh. I guess he did technically pass through the draft. But it’s hard to imagine he wouldn’t have been taken in the 6th or 7th if he hadn’t threatened not to sign. I guess if I’m the NFL, I don’t want players threatening not to sign if drafted lower than they value themselves, only to be signed as a FA. You don’t want to turn the NFL draft into a game of chicken.
I did actually miss your point about Collins’ threat. I can see what you mean, but I’m not sure it poses that great a threat. Best case scenario for Collins would be a bidding war at this point I guess. Do UDFAs occasionally get paid more than draftees? It might pencil out for the player by a little bit, but if the player has already slid past his desired draft position, then maybe he’s already overestimated his value. How much is he going to gain by refusing to sign? Don’t teams have budgetary limitations for UDFAs?
Now I really am curious if such a strategy would make sense. I sure don’t know.
May 4, 2015 at 1:41 am #23947
AgamemnonParticipantI did actually miss your point about Collins’ threat. I can see what you mean, but I’m not sure it poses that great a threat. Best case scenario for Collins would be a bidding war at this point I guess. Do UDFAs occasionally get paid more than draftees? It might pencil out for the player by a little bit, but if the player has already slid past his desired draft position, then maybe he’s already overestimated his value. How much is he going to gain by refusing to sign? Don’t teams have budgetary limitations for UDFAs?
Now I really am curious if such a strategy would make sense. I sure don’t know.
AgamemnonMay 4, 2015 at 1:56 am #23948MaddyParticipantThank you sir. That answers that question. It could pay off for Collins because of his particular situation.
May 4, 2015 at 9:56 am #23956ZooeyModeratorWell, I don’t know. I think the NFL has a problem now, though. They should have let him pull out and apply for the Supplemental the way he wanted to.
Maybe it’s not that big of a deal. I mean, maybe most guys who slide would not be served by sitting out a year, even if they calculate that they would go higher the following year. Collins is looking at a certain first round contract drop to the 4th round or lower. Very few players will ever be looking at such a clear cut situation. But I still think it’s not a good precedent for the NFL.
May 4, 2015 at 11:23 am #23964znModeratorfrom off the net
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Prime Time,
This article was published before the end of the draft which accounts for the author’s statements that he believed Collins would be drafted by someone. It doesn’t really explain whether or not Collins will be allowed to enter the 2016 draft because there’s no precedence on this for an undrafted player.
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http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/02/lael-collins-2015-nfl-draft/
What Happens to La’el Collins Now?
After not being drafted on Thursday or Friday, La’el Collins’ representatives have said he won’t play in 2015 and will re-enter next year’s draft. According to teams and agents, the offensive lineman’s situation isn’t so cut-and-dried
By Robert KlemkoIn the case of La’el Collins, there are football interests, collective bargaining ramifications and public relations decisions worthy of scrutiny and discussion. But in doing so, we must not lose sight of the most important—and heinous—detail: a pregnant woman was shot and killed, and the baby, whom doctors delivered, died a week later; the killer is likely at large.
That said, my expertise after polling teams and agents, is on the football side of things, so that’s what I’ll discuss here. And I’ll start with an educated guess: La’el Collins will get drafted today in Chicago.
Before I explain, a recap: Collins, the former LSU offensive lineman, was invited to attend the draft and expected to go in the first round. On Friday, April 24, 29-year-old Brittney Mills, reportedly Collins’ ex-girlfriend, was shot to death in her Baton Rouge, La., home. The child, Brenton Mills, died one week later. Collins had arrived in Chicago for draft festivities this week but left the city in order to meet with police in Louisiana, who considered him a person of interest but not a suspect.
Collins’ representation, led by Deryk Gilmore of Priority Sports, petitioned for Collins to be removed from the draft and placed in this summer’s supplemental draft for special cases. That petition was denied on the grounds of a hard and fast CBA rule: “No player may elect to bypass a draft for which he is eligible to apply for selection in a supplemental draft.”
Fair enough.
Then came this bombshell from the Collins camp: If drafted beyond round 3 (or not drafted at all), Collins would decline to sign, and would sit out the year and enter the 2016 draft. Ostensibly, the motivation would be to recoup the guaranteed cash he has lost by falling out of the first round.
For the first scenario, there is precedent. Bo Jackson, drafted in 1986 by Tampa Bay, played a season of pro baseball rather than join the Bucs, and because he refused to sign a contract the team lost his rights before the next draft. The Raiders chose Jackson in the seventh round of the ’87 draft. Today the cutoff is Week 10, and you get thrown back into the next year’s draft pool.
You can do that.
But what if you’re not drafted, and you want to sit out a season and gain entry to the next draft? There’s no precedent, and zero language in the 2011 collective bargaining agreement providing for such a scenario. Media reports subsequent to Collins’ declaration have yet to touch on this, instead treating his assumed admission to the 2016 draft as a ’15 UDFA as a given.
“It certainly is not automatic,” said one agent well-versed in the CBA. “There is obviously some language in the CBA that can lead to a rendering of an interpretation by the league on the issue. How valid an interpretation that is would have to be examined, and if a player thought it was not a correct interpretation he could bring a System Arbitration challenging it.”
NFL spokesman Greg Aiello says the league’s stance is clear: “If he’s not drafted today? He would be the same as any other player in this draft. He becomes a free agent like any other undrafted player. You only go through one draft. If he’s drafted and sits out the year, he would go back into the 2016 draft.”
Again, there is no language in the CBA for this scenario, complicating his prospects of winning any kind of argument with the league. All of which makes his agency’s declaration so peculiar. Why wouldn’t you want to get drafted, so you could have the option of sitting out a year and re-entering the draft?
You can table this question for now as we wait for the NFLPA to weigh in. The most valuable interpretation will come from the union’s counsel, who did not respond to an email Friday night. For now, a bigger, burning question: Why isn’t La’el Collins screaming his innocence from the rooftops?
I can confirm that he and his attorney have spent the last several days on the phone with any team who will talk to him, explaining his side of things and his belief that the child was not his (no word on a paternity test so far). He also took a lie detector test organized by his reps Thursday, and passed, per Jason Cole.
That’s what we’re hearing through back channels, but why aren’t we hearing it from the man himself?
Consider the tragic case of Dennis Weathersby, the former Oregon State cornerback and projected first-round pick in the 2003 draft. The week of the draft, he was shot in the back in a drive-by shooting, and police concluded he and a companion were mistaken for someone else. The night before the draft, ESPN aired a piece on SportsCenter chronicling the bizarre turn of events, including an interview with Weathersby. Given expectations of a full recovery by doctors, the Bengals drafted him in the fourth round.
Different strokes for different crisis managers, perhaps. If Collins is so distraught he’s unable or unwilling to compose himself for cameras, that wouldn’t jibe with making the audacious “don’t draft me” declaration.
And despite all of this, I still think Collins will get drafted. At this point, I think most of the NFL has taken him off their draft boards. Collins’ ultimatum didn’t help his cause. But the majority of agents and team sources I spoke with believe Collins will continue to slide until one team—and all it takes is one—decides to call his bluff on the assumption that Collins will come around once the dust settles. Given the information available Friday night, I’ll be watching the seventh round very closely.
May 4, 2015 at 11:24 am #23965znModeratorhttp://theadvocate.com/sports/lsu/12264606-123/left-out-a-first-round-projection
Set to meet with police Monday, ex-LSU star La’el Collins goes undrafted, now ineligible to enter the 2016 draftLa’el Collins’ improbable tumble in the NFL draft is complete. In 256 picks, he wasn’t selected.
Collins was left out during the three-day, seven-round event in Chicago that ended Saturday, a stunning free fall that began when news broke Tuesday that police wished to speak with him regarding the shooting death last weekend of a pregnant woman.
“We have never seen a story like this in NFL draft history,” ESPN reporter Adam Schefter said during the network’s coverage of the event.
Collins, LSU’s former star left tackle and Redemptorist standout, began the week as a sure-fire first-round pick — a 6-foot-4, 305-pounder who many projected as a potential top-10 selection before his name surfaced in the homicide investigation.
Baton Rouge police have said Collins is not a suspect in the death of Brittney Mills, but the mere association with the incident sent his draft stock tumbling. It caused his agent on Friday to make a rare move.
The agent told multiple national outlets that the former All-Southeastern Conference player would sit out the 2015 season and re-enter the draft in 2016 if he was not drafted in Friday’s second and third rounds. He said his client would not sign with a team if picked in Saturday’s fourth through seventh rounds and that he would not sign an undrafted free agent contract.
He’s now ineligible to enter the 2016 draft because he was not selected in the 2015 event. He is eligible to sign a free-agent deal.
Collins returned to Baton Rouge on Wednesday from the draft site in Chicago with plans to meet with police. A source confirmed Collins will meet with homicide detectives Monday and will take a paternity test to determine whether he was the father of Mills’ child Brenton. Brenton Mills, delivered alive immediately after his mother’s death, died Friday as a 1-week-old.
The ordeal has hovered over Collins this week, spooking NFL teams from taking him. He lost a hefty signing bonus. Even as a late first-round draft pick, Collins would have received upward of $2 million in guaranteed money.
Collins was projected by some to be selected in the top 10. A source said Saturday that an NFL team had reached out to a former LSU assistant coach for his thoughts on Collins. The team thought seriously about taking him in the second round Friday. They passed on him.
One NFL general manager, the Houston Texans’ Rick Smith, told local reporter Howard Chen on Saturday that Collins’ situation is “unfortunate” and “tragic” and that there is too much uncertainty to risk a draft pick on him.
A source told The Advocate that, as of Saturday night, Collins had not signed with a team as a free agent.
Collins’ agency, Priority Sports/Maven Sports Group, knew this was coming. They asked the NFL to withdraw Collins from the selection process just hours before the draft began Thursday, FoxSports.com reported. The NFL rejected the request.
“We’ve seen seven rounds come and seven rounds (go), and La’el Collins, once considered a first-round draft pick, still has not been drafted,” Schefter said. “It now will put him into a very difficult and challenging situation, particularly with teams having rookie salary caps that they have to squeeze players under. … Everybody is waiting to see exactly what happens here.”
Collins is one of many people who will be interviewed as part of the investigation into Mills’ death, police have said.
Mills was shot multiple times in “the upper body” last Friday night after answering the door at her Ship Drive apartment, police said, likely by someone she knew. It appeared she refused a request by the shooter to use her vehicle and then was shot, police have said.
Collins’ attorney, Jim Boren, said Wednesday he would not be commenting further on the matter.
The attorney said a private investigative company was hired to prove Collins was out of town and therefore couldn’t have shot Mills. The nature of the relationship between Mills and Collins hasn’t been made clear, except that the two knew each other.
May 4, 2015 at 11:38 am #23968znModeratorBut yeah, if he’s clear and even if he might miss a bit of time, I’d jump on it…early.
He’s a 1st round talent who does what we want to do. Show some faith in the kid and watch him pay it back.
It would be nice but he is in essence a free agent.
He can go anywhere he wants, if things hold up as is.
This could work out that he essentially “fell” to the Patriots for nothing.
May 4, 2015 at 12:28 pm #23970AgamemnonParticipantFisher was going to draft “Eddie” Gurley, anyway. So the chances of us getting Collins are higher now than they were before. If he plays well, he can do almost as good as if he was drafted high.
AgamemnonMay 4, 2015 at 1:24 pm #23978
HerzogParticipantBut yeah, if he’s clear and even if he might miss a bit of time, I’d jump on it…early.
He’s a 1st round talent who does what we want to do. Show some faith in the kid and watch him pay it back.
It would be nice but he is in essence a free agent.
He can go anywhere he wants, if things hold up as is.
This could work out that he essentially “fell” to the Patriots for nothing.
Sounds about right. Those Patriot basturds will probably get him
May 4, 2015 at 2:42 pm #23993znModeratorRams will wait and see on La’el Collins
By Nick Wagoner
http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/18236/rams-will-wait-and-see-on-lael-collins
EARTH CITY, Mo. — As each round passed and LSU offensive lineman La’el Collins remained on the board, many fans of the St. Louis Rams began clamoring for the team to take a chance on him in hopes that he could become a bargain pick in the later rounds.
But according to Rams coach Jeff Fisher and general manager Les Snead, that was never an option.
“That’s correct and I think most people did it,” Fisher said. “Extraordinary circumstances. They’re very, very difficult and we just have to wait now for the legal process to work itself out.”
Not just most people, but all people in the NFL chose the same approach. Once projected as a first-round pick and a potential target for the Rams in that round, Collins went unchosen over the draft’s three days.
Collins indeed finds himself in extraordinary circumstances, the type of which have rarely been seen before in the draft, especially in the hours just before its start. According to reports from ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, Collins attempted to pull out of this year’s draft after it was revealed that police in Louisiana wanted to speak to him about the shooting death of a pregnant woman in Baton Rouge.
The woman was believed to be a former girlfriend of Collins’ and was pregnant at the time of her death. The child was born but later died, police said Friday. Earlier in the week, the police said Collins is not believed to be a suspect in the woman’s death but they still wanted to speak to him.
With so many unanswered questions, Collins had hoped he could pull out of the draft and enter this summer’s supplemental draft. The NFL turned down that application and Collins attempted to regain control of his situation by saying that he wouldn’t sign with any team that drafted him later than the second day (Rounds 2 and 3) and would re-enter the draft in 2016.
All 32 teams passed on Collins in the first three rounds and followed by doing the same in Rounds 4 through 7. Under NFL rules, because he went undrafted this year, he cannot re-enter the 2016 draft, leaving Collins as a free agent.
Collins’ case is rare because it happened so close to the draft, and because it’s an ongoing investigation, there was no way for teams to have access to all the facts. That fear of the unknown led to every team passing on Collins. However, if the facts come out and Collins is cleared of any wrongdoing to the satisfaction of teams, there’s little doubt he will become one of the most sought-after undrafted free agents the league has ever seen.
For the Rams, the idea of adding Collins as an undrafted free agent has to be appealing considering his talent and what the cost would be. The same can probably be said of 31 other teams. Even though the Rams added four offensive linemen in the draft, Collins was rated higher than all of them.
Now that the draft is over, Collins and his representatives plan to wait to see how things play out before signing with a team. At this point, there’s no reason for a team to take an approach any different from the one Collins plans to take.
“I think across the board I think everybody had interest in him because he was a good college football player, but I think now we just have to let things unfold and see what happens,” Fisher said. “It’s very, very unfortunate, whether he was involved or not in the incident. Unfortunately, it’s one of those things that happened that’s very, very unfortunate.”
When Collins’ situation gains more clarity, so too will his future.
May 4, 2015 at 3:45 pm #23997MackeyserModeratorIf he’s cleared, there will be a damned land rush to get him…
Unfortunately, few teams will be able to offer him money based on the CBA, so it will be interesting how he and his team decide…
Again, looking around the league, I dunno of many better situations for him than the Rams… Running attack where he would could step in and start at ROT from Day 1. How many other franchises could offer that?
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 4, 2015 at 4:36 pm #24015HerzogParticipantIf he’s cleared, there will be a damned land rush to get him…
Unfortunately, few teams will be able to offer him money based on the CBA, so it will be interesting how he and his team decide…
Again, looking around the league, I dunno of many better situations for him than the Rams… Running attack where he would could step in and start at ROT from Day 1. How many other franchises could offer that?
What do you mean “based on the CBA”. What kind of limitations are we talking about here?
May 4, 2015 at 4:51 pm #24017znModeratorWhat do you mean “based on the CBA”. What kind of limitations are we talking about here?
The league sets a limit on how much teams can spend on undrafted FAs every year. I actually think it might be less that $100,000. That means that, in year one anyway, he will have to settle for next to nothing. Of course after this year he could end up getting a big-time FA contract.
May 4, 2015 at 6:28 pm #24038InvaderRamModeratorIf he’s cleared, there will be a damned land rush to get him…
Unfortunately, few teams will be able to offer him money based on the CBA, so it will be interesting how he and his team decide…
Again, looking around the league, I dunno of many better situations for him than the Rams… Running attack where he would could step in and start at ROT from Day 1. How many other franchises could offer that?
well i would certainly sell him on the fact that he’s got 2 promising young running backs to block for. a power running scheme. a right tackle or a right guard opening basically up for grabs.
he’ll want to go to a situation where he’s got the best chance for success so he can get a good contract when he’s up for free agency.
May 4, 2015 at 6:30 pm #24040MackeyserModeratorYeah, they can’t offer him a $2M signing bonus, for example.
And since likely all of the UDFA money is gone, the ONLY things they can offer are
1) starting job
2) guarantee salary
3) opt out in 2nd year of contract.Normally, the team will have an RFA clause for UDFAs that allow them to extend them from 3 to 4 years, but he could get out after just two if they allow him to have that in his contract. That would allow him to recoup what he lost.
If he really is as good as he looked, then he may be actually better off because he’d be hitting that 2nd contract after only 2 years. Which, is kinda crazy…
I’d still do it if I were the Rams. If GRob struggles, you can move him to RG and you have Collins as your LT. If not, you have your bookends that can dominate in both pass pro and definitely in the run game.
I’d be shocked if the Rams weren’t really on this… I know they like Havenstein, but c’mon. You really have to be on this guy… If he’s cleared, they Rams have to be after him like Quinn after a strip sack…
Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.
May 4, 2015 at 6:47 pm #24043HerzogParticipantso they could offer him say…..3 million a year, if they wanted to?
May 4, 2015 at 7:22 pm #24049ZooeyModeratorWhat do you mean “based on the CBA”. What kind of limitations are we talking about here?
The league sets a limit on how much teams can spend on undrafted FAs every year. I actually think it might be less that $100,000. That means that, in year one anyway, he will have to settle for next to nothing. Of course after this year he could end up getting a big-time FA contract.
If that’s true, he may sit the year.
He may have to anyway. He may be cleared this week, and he may be cleared after everybody has been in camp a while. And maybe he will be Aaron Hernandez’s roommate this time next year.
But why work for a plumber’s salary this year, and risk an ACL?
Presumably he would be eligible for FA next year in February when all the other FA hit the market.
I just don’t think he plays this year.
May 4, 2015 at 7:24 pm #24050znModeratorso they could offer him say…..3 million a year, if they wanted to?
No. The CBA sets a limit on how much a team can spend on undrafted free agents. He is now an undrafted free agent. What he can and will be offered is peanuts.
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