Killer, back-breaking, TD-returns

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle Killer, back-breaking, TD-returns

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  • #26160
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Whats your take on Janoris Jenkins?

    You probably won’t like my take, which I have offered before.

    I think Jenkins is talented, but itchy. He plays best when he is aggressively up in a Man relationship to a receiver. He’s pretty damn good in that role, I think.

    When he’s back off the guy, he gets restless and he will bite on double moves. He’ll cheat up, try to jump short routes, and let guys get behind him.

    In other words, he doesn’t really match Williams’ system. Williams apparently wants to play off and contain to facilitate his blitzes. That requires disciplined CBs. JJ is a poor fit for that role.

    I cant say I disagree with that. Though, I’m not sure.

    He’s got so much raw talent…but i dunno about him.
    I’m not sure about Tru Johnson, either.

    I think they will draft a CB high next year.

    w
    v

    #26168
    rfl
    Participant

    I happen to think that any viable NFL system can be executed well. So I am not big on choosing among systems. In many different discussions over the years, what often appear to some to be inherent and fatal system flaws will then, on the field, work fine…I’ve seen that happen over the years. Though I would be silly to promise that because I would have to see it myself before I thought that had happened.

    Having said that, it is common for people to resist Wms. because he appears to be too risky. My own feeling is that they have to work on execution more than anything. I felt the same way about the offense.

    OK, I’ll just try this one more time.

    My beef is not with blitzing per se. As I have repeated ad nauseum, I was impressed with the AZ DC who called a very aggressive game with lots of blitzes BUT played a sound deployment at the same time. In the Ram games, I never saw him sacrifice good coverage of the field for his blitzes and he blitzed like crazy.

    I’m not arguing that a blitzing defense is a bad thing. I’ve never said that and never intended it. I would never begin to say that a particular NFL system can’t be executed well, or that we need to have 1 system over another. It’s fine for you to say you don’t like that kind of thing if you want to. I don’t really see how those comments, however, respond to what I have been saying.

    I have made very specific arguments, and I am NOT interested in meta-discussions about different perspectives or many different discussions over the years or arguments I haven’t made. I don’t care about all of that.

    When I complain about Williams’ blitzing it is NOT just about blitzing as such. It’s about specific things. It’s about our superb D Front which is negated when a QB can unload a ball easily in 1.5 seconds because the WRs are left wide open. Ag puts it this way:

    what about not blitzing and trying to cover for the first 2 seconds? Let 4 players rush and try to force the QB to throw the ball quickly. I think we have the players to do that.

    We do have the players for that. If they get a chance. But we have a DC who could not figure out how to get Quinn and the others a bit of time to get to the QB for a freaking 1/4 of the season. That is criminal negligence in strategic terms. It is about a DC who could not recognize and get value from his best asset apparently until the HC told him to change course. You don’t negate that very specific criticism by ignoring it and saying that any system can work.

    And, you know, I would argue that the problem IS NOT that Williams is risky. I don’t think I’ve ever said he was. I would argue that he played scared last season. He blitzed aggressively. But, he played his DBs so far back that the chance of getting burned deep was (or should have been) reduced. Typically, a blitzing defense takes chances by playing aggressive, man coverage behind the blitz. Williams did NOT do that. He played loose deep and aggressively up front.

    To me, that’s an incoherent “system” at odds with itself. Conceding the quick throw while blitzing is a self-defeating tactic, a pair of mutually contradictory deployments. It’s what I mean by being unsound.

    And, paradoxically, I think it does lead to the big play at times. Especially when you have an itchy CB like JJ. JJ’s instincts are to come up and challenge the short throw. He struggles to have the discipline to sit back and contain. So he bites up and gets burned deep. And he’s our most gifted DB. Notice that Gaines, who has less physical talent, played smarter and with more discipline and made fewer mistakes. As a rookie.

    Now, about JJ, you qualified his problems: “unless he learns.” Well, OK. Sure. He might learn. The point is that he was being deployed last year AGAINST his strengths and instincts. I think that over the years we have called for DCs and OCs to recognize and use their players’ strengths. Williams at least SHARES the responsibility for an itchy player’s big mistakes when deploying him against his instincts. Again, a specific criticism. Not a system criticism.

    And, once again, I resist the idea of focusing on big mistakes and on its corollary, the notion that our problem last year was taking risks. I don’t think that was the problem.

    For every one big play we gave up, there were 5-6 1st downs conceded with soft or unsound deployment. We “couldn’t get off the field.” That’s a specific problem quite different from big plays. And in my mind it’s far more damaging. Let a QB get comfortable pitching and catching and you concede the game’s momentum. In those games where we gave up leads, we did it not just with a few big plays, but with cheap, soft concessions of yardage and 1st downs.

    I’ve already talked about one big reason–the soft deployments of the DBs. But there’s another.

    I cringe thinking about the numerous concessions of runs that hurt us. A few were big plays. Others were just, say, 14 yards and new downs. Sometimes the problem lay in guys getting blocked. That’s a problem in itself. Can our front 7 learn to fight the running game more consistently?

    But a lot of it goes back to deployments. And again the comparison with the AZ guy is telling. Unlike AZ, we were frequently caught in some exotic rotation which left big seams, 2 guys covering half the field, etc. When you actually look at some of those plays, it is obvious why the runs worked. Our guys were unsoundly deployed. In order to show some creative blitz pattern. Which Couldn’t work with the DBs playing off. Or would give up the run with ease.

    We conceded so many 1st downs, so many yards early in the season, then somewhat less, then again at the end. It’s one thing getting beat. It’s another when the door just opens and an opponent is invited to romp. That’s why they say, “that was too easy.”

    Of course, one can simply say, “all of that is down to guys making mistakes.” OK. As for me, the notion that a defense as talented as ours was allowed to make SO MANY MISTAKES throughout pre-season games and far enough into the season to leave us in a deep, deep hole … and that it was just about mostly veteran players making mistakes in a new system … well, to me that’s simply letting the coaching staff off the hook.

    Now, of course, ZN, you see these things differently. That’s of course fine. But I’m frankly not interested in meta-commentary that dismisses the specific, clear arguments, I’ve tried to make.

    All of this started when WV said “hey, the big plays will be down and that’ll make a difference” and I simply offered a few reasons to question that assumption. WV will continue to see what he sees and to testify to it. I will do the same.

    By virtue of the absurd ...

    #26176
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Now, of course, ZN, you see these things differently. That’s of course fine. But I’m frankly not interested in meta-commentary that dismisses the specific, clear arguments, I’ve tried to make.

    But, I didn’t “dismiss” anything RFL. In fact I don’t know what that’s based on. If people are talking past each other some, okay…it happens. If so I think everyone is doing it a bit. But it’s not personal, and is just something that happens on message boards sometimes, IMO. I don’t see any real source of tension.

    #26196
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    This kind of thing makes me smile, fwiw.
    Doesn’t guarantee improvement, obviously,
    but it does ‘suggest’ reason for hope, I think:

    From the Joyner article:
    ——
    What was the hardest part about his rookie campaign?

    “Just adapting. Just learning the system. Just coming from a successful year at the college level and you think you know everything and you’re just on the wrong path, you need to get adjusted,” Joyner said. “Coach (Gregg) Williams was a great example of molding me out of that and molding me into the young man I am now.”

    What the 5-foot-8, 184-pound defensive back is now is a player who is far more aware of what he is doing in the Rams’ defensive scheme, a player fighting for snaps among the team’s cornerbacks and a player who has earned some praise for his play so far during OTAs.

    “I feel like my approach is different and that’s probably coming from the more understanding I have, the more wisdom I have and just knowing what I’m doing,” Joyner said. “Instead of running out there like a blind dog in a meat house and you don’t know which way to go, I know what I’m doing, so now I can pretty much contribute to the defense.”

    How much different does Joyner feel now within the defense than he was a year ago as a rookie second-round pick? Joyner said the coaches have used the words “light years” to describe the difference.

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