Joe Buck on the LA thing: relocation thread

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December 24, 2015 at 7:35 pm #36038

wv
Participant

From Peter King’s column.
Some musings from a St.Louis guy.

I agree with him btw, on the
“why TWO teams in LA” question.
I dont see why TWO teams
have to be in LA. I dont like it.

w
v
———————–
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/22/san-diego-chargers-st-louis-rams-relocation-los-angeles-nfl

Photo: Billy Hurst/AP

Joe Buck
FOX NFL play-by-play voice, raised and lives in St. Louis
Dec. 17: Rams 31, Buccaneers 23.

Sometimes I have to ask myself, ‘What hat am I wearing?’ If I’m wearing my FOX hat, I’m impartial, and I stay out of the scrum. Or if I wear my St. Louis hat, I think about what gets lost, and that’s the overall body of work on behalf of St. Louis. In 21 seasons, they’ve been over .500 four times. In the five seasons ending in 2011, they were 15-65. Yet, they sold out every game from when they got there until they started 0-8 in 2007. Frankly, I find it amazing they can get anyone in the door. Consider where they play. The dome is like a warehouse. It was obsolete the day they opened it. It got filled because of guys like Kurt Warner, Marshall Faulk, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Az Hakim, Orlando Pace, Ricky Proehl.

Now you’ve got an owner [Stan Kroenke] doing everything for four years to show his intentions. He does everything but make a public comment for St. Louis. Look at Jerry Jones, the owner of the Cowboys and one of the biggest stars in the league. In this day and age, owners have to talk. When you have an owner who won’t talk … I mean, St. Louis fans aren’t dumb. They’ve seen the writing on the wall. They see he’s got one foot out out the door. They have seen it before. When you are telling the fans you don’t want to be there, while the team is struggling at epic levels … I am surprised anyone walks through the door. They see him act like, Here is my beautiful place in L.A., and I can’t want to leave you.

I started talking about this on Twitter, and it raised some eyebrows, I thought about it from St. Louis’s perspective. It’s not a selfish perspective. Honestly, I thought about it from my Dad’s perspective. The city of St. Louis was something my dad believed in more than he believed in anything in his life. When my dad wanted the new baseball stadium for downtown St. Louis, he was excited for what it would mean for downtown St. Louis. His feeling was, let’s try to revitalize a downtown area that needs help. It’s way bigger than football now, just like it was bigger than baseball. It’s developing events for downtown St. Louis. I’ve seen what a new stadium has done in Indy and Cincinnati. Indy hosted a Super Bowl. If you’re a leader of St. Louis, that should make you salivate.

• THE RELOCATION RANTS: Fans of the Chargers, Raiders and Rams air out their frustration. But is anyone at the NFL really listening?

To say this team’s not been supported, I would turn it around. I would say the team hasn’t deserved it.

I’m not a child. [Kroenke] is one of 32 owners who can, in the words of Jerry Jones, pretty much do what he pleases. He was a part of the effort that got the team to St. Louis.

And I’ve heard people say how hard it’ll be for football to ever flourish in St. Louis. They say it’s a baseball city. Well, when I was a kid at Busch Stadium, you could shoot a cannon through there and hit no one. It can be a football city. Absolutely.

Can the marriage between the owner and the city be repaired? My answer is yes. Fans will welcome Kroenke back into their good graces. He’s a Missouri guy, named after Stan Musial and Enos Slaughter. He’s a decent guy who is a huge sports fan.

What community has built two stadiums in 25 years for the NFL? That’s never happened in the history of the NFL. To say St. Louis doesn’t support the NFL is a dumb, blanket statement, and I call people on it. It’s just not true.

But you know, at the end of the day, the owner has the keys to the Corvette.

* * *

Hearts are broken whenever a team leaves a city. They will be again in January. There’s no way around it. My only question about the team or teams that end up waving the NFL’s banner is this: If two, why two? Why two immediately? The NFL left Los Angeles 21 years ago tomorrow. True fact: The Rams and Raiders played on Christmas Eve 1994 simultaneously, in Anaheim and the L.A. Coliseum, in games that finished eight minutes apart, and there hasn’t been a game in greater Los Angeles since. They left, in part, because of greener pastures and because of relative disinterest. I get one team returning; L.A.’s a gigantic market and should be served by the NFL (though the league hasn’t folded with no franchise there). But two?

I say any decision to put two teams in Los Angeles, before seeing if there’s support for two, will haunt the NFL.

December 25, 2015 at 1:03 pm #36049

— X —
Participant

All I know is, this needs to be over sooner rather than later.

Too much animosity out there because of this junk.

You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr Seuss

December 25, 2015 at 2:15 pm #36050

zn
Moderator

— X — wrote:

Too much animosity out there because of this junk.

Yeah I avoid it.

I will build up threads here with discussions and info on it, cause that’s just being current (though it’s hard to choose what’s good and current), and I am interested in all the different responses. Here, anyway, I am. But this is an old community group that doesn’t squabble much.

As a rule, though, I don’t join in, here or (as Mainers say) “away.”

December 25, 2015 at 2:23 pm #36051

— X —
Participant

zn wrote:

— X — wrote:

Too much animosity out there because of this junk.

Yeah I avoid it.

I will build up threads here with discussions and info on it, cause that’s just being current (though it’s hard to choose what’s good and current), and I am interested in all the different responses. Here, anyway, I am. But this is an old community group that doesn’t squabble much.

As a rule, though, I don’t join in, here or (as Mainers say) “away.”

Yeah, I wasn’t talking about here specifically.
Most of the boards out there are just tense about the whole thing.

Personally, I’m of the group that doesn’t care what happens.

You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr Seuss

December 25, 2015 at 2:40 pm #36052

zn
Moderator

— X — wrote:

Yeah, I wasn’t talking about here specifically.
Most of the boards out there are just tense about the whole thing.

Personally, I’m of the group that doesn’t care what happens.

I know you weren;t talking about here. That was just me digressing.

I do care in this sense…I feel bad for the St. Louis fans if they move. But, as to where they play? Like you I am a nomad. To me, the Rams home town is direct tv.

You know I never asked this. How/why did you become a Rams fan?

I did because in the mid 70s I lived in St. Louis, and followed the football Cards a bit. That just mostly led me to hate Dallas. Then in the late 70s, I moved to southern Cal, so I watched the Rams, and noticed they could beat Dallas. Then, the Rams stuck.

December 25, 2015 at 2:44 pm #36053

— X —
Participant

My brother’s best friend was a Rams fan when I was about 12 years old and I looked up to him quite a bit. This was 1978. He was 19 at the time, I believe, and nobody messed with that guy. Just a freak of nature, physically. He kinda convinced me that rooting for the Rams was my gateway to the cool kids crowd (of which he was the charter member), so I jumped all over it and never looked back. He taught me all about their history and stuff, so I ran with it after that.

Wonder what that dude’s up to these days.

You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr Seuss

December 25, 2015 at 2:52 pm #36054

zn
Moderator

— X — wrote:

Wonder what that dude’s up to these days.

Maybe he got his own kingdom.

…

And, I hope all is well with you.

I hear the food in Charlotte is amazing.

..

December 25, 2015 at 2:59 pm #36056

— X —
Participant

I don’t know how to do PMs on this board.
Check your RamStalk box.

You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr Seuss

December 25, 2015 at 3:01 pm #36057

zn
Moderator

— X — wrote:

I don’t know how to do PMs on this board.
Check your RamStalk box.

Yeah RM subtracted PMs I think. They kind of broke down.

Will check ramstalk.

December 26, 2015 at 7:08 am #36059

TSRF
Participant

Here’s my humble opinion on what should happen in LA:

The good people of LA don’t want or deserve any of the three teams who want to go there. For prior bad behavior, the Raiders should be excluded right from the get go.

The Chargers and the Rams should be merged with the composite team basically the Chargers O and the Rams D and ST. Ownership of the LA Ramgers would be determined via a PPV cage match between Krankie and Spandex.

The loser would become owner of a St Louis expansion team (the Stallions?) who would have first dibs on the remainder of the old Rams and Chargers teams, and then would get to select players from the other 30 teams via an expansion draft.

The Ramgers would be in the AFC West, the St Louis team would stay in the NFC West.

Problem solved.

December 26, 2015 at 9:19 am #36064

wv
Participant

TSRF wrote:

Here’s my humble opinion on what should happen in LA:

The good people of LA don’t want or deserve any of the three teams who want to go there. For prior bad behavior, the Raiders should be excluded right from the get go.

The Chargers and the Rams should be merged with the composite team basically the Chargers O and the Rams D and ST. Ownership of the LA Ramgers would be determined via a PPV cage match between Krankie and Spandex.

The loser would become owner of a St Louis expansion team (the Stallions?) who would have first dibs on the remainder of the old Rams and Chargers teams, and then would get to select players from the other 30 teams via an expansion draft.

The Ramgers would be in the AFC West, the St Louis team would stay in the NFC West.

Problem solved.

I’m guessing a RamGer helmet
would be a lightning bolt in
the shape of a Horn ?

w
v

December 26, 2015 at 9:46 am #36066

Dak
Participant

Bottom line: This has nothing to do with whether St. Louis fans would support the NFL. Of course, the lack of support has to do with a really crappy product.

I agree that the NFL needs to make a decision as soon as possible. Don’t move back the deadline. Decide now.

December 26, 2015 at 8:18 pm #36081
bnw
Blocked
The Rams make money. Despite being a multibillionaire StanK doesn’t feel he has enough money. The revenue agreement for the Ed is the most generous in the league yet still not enough for StanK. St. Louis isn’t a wealthy city and there is need much beyond 8 sundays of football a year. In the end I hope StanK gets what he deserves.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by bnw.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.
December 30, 2015 at 11:12 am #36308

zn
Moderator

Jason Cole ‏@JasonColeBR
StL likely to keep the Rams at this point

January 1, 2016 at 8:09 pm #36431

zn
Moderator

Jason La Canfora‏@JasonLaCanfora

League continuing to seek ways to end stalemate on LA and secure 24 votes for one of the projects (Carson has far more votes right now)…

January 1, 2016 at 10:22 pm #36438

Zooey
Moderator

I wonder why Carson has more support. Is it cuz of Spanos? I can’t see that being a major factor somehow. LA is a business opportunity, not a popularity contest.

I do recall reading that owners prefer the Carson location.

I still think the big factor in this is that St. Louis has a pretty attractive plan.

January 2, 2016 at 5:23 am #36448

PA Ram
Participant

zn wrote:

Jason La Canfora‏@JasonLaCanfora

League continuing to seek ways to end stalemate on LA and secure 24 votes for one of the projects (Carson has far more votes right now)…

How is it a stalemate if Carson has far more votes?

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

January 2, 2016 at 10:12 am #36454

Dak
Participant

PA Ram wrote:

zn wrote:

Jason La Canfora‏@JasonLaCanfora

League continuing to seek ways to end stalemate on LA and secure 24 votes for one of the projects (Carson has far more votes right now)…

How is it a stalemate if Carson has far more votes?

That means that they don’t have 24 votes for either project.

January 2, 2016 at 1:01 pm #36470

nittany ram
Moderator

I’ll admit that I’m very ignorant on the rules about relocation. I have little interest in it. But what’s to keep Kroenke from moving his team to LA regardless of the results of the vote? Didn’t Al Davis move the Raiders to LA against the league’s wishes? I would think other owners could envision themselves in a situation where they would want to move and they wouldn’t want the league to block it, so I can’t believe they would come down too hard on Kroenke if he moved without league approval.

January 2, 2016 at 1:37 pm #36473

zn
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

I’ll admit that I’m very ignorant on the rules about relocation. I have little interest in it. But what’s to keep Kroenke from moving his team to LA regardless of the results of the vote? Didn’t Al Davis move the Raiders to LA against the league’s wishes? I would think other owners could envision themselves in a situation where they would want to move and they wouldn’t want the league to block it, so I can’t believe they would come down too hard on Kroenke if he moved without league approval.

From what I understand, the league put in new rules since the Raiders situation empowering them to levy penalty fines and to exclude rogue teams from their share of tv revenue etc.

January 2, 2016 at 5:33 pm #36480

InvaderRam
Moderator

i used to be sure.

but i’m not so sure anymore.

based just on the stadium project i would think the inglewood stadium would be miles ahead. wondering if they’re trying to pressure stan into making a deal with spanos.

in the end i’d rather just not have to read articles on this ever again.

January 2, 2016 at 5:55 pm #36483

Zooey
Moderator

InvaderRam wrote:

i used to be sure.

but i’m not so sure anymore.

based just on the stadium project i would think the inglewood stadium would be miles ahead. wondering if they’re trying to pressure stan into making a deal with spanos.

in the end i’d rather just not have to read articles on this ever again.

I’m the same.

I was sure last March. Not so sure now.

And I wonder the same thing about Stan/Spanos. That they want something more from Kroenke, a little bigger slice of pie for Spanos. That is a possibility.

And I’d like the issue resolved this month instead of delaying it another year.

January 2, 2016 at 9:08 pm #36499

PA Ram
Participant

Well I can certainly say that my “Rams to Pennsylvania” campaign has not gotten off the ground. No public support, no funding, no plans in place, the Rams owner hasn’t even heard of it and the league has 13,000 other sites ahead of it.

But I am NOT giving up.

I’m hoping it emerges as a “compromise” during the meetings.

That’s the strategy.

If I have to I will make buttons.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick

January 2, 2016 at 9:28 pm #36500

bnw
Blocked

PA Ram wrote:

If I have to I will make buttons.

And sell BBQ mutton.

The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

Sprinkles are for winners.

January 2, 2016 at 9:56 pm #36503

InvaderRam
Moderator

Zooey wrote:

InvaderRam wrote:

i used to be sure.

but i’m not so sure anymore.

based just on the stadium project i would think the inglewood stadium would be miles ahead. wondering if they’re trying to pressure stan into making a deal with spanos.

in the end i’d rather just not have to read articles on this ever again.

I’m the same.

I was sure last March. Not so sure now.

And I wonder the same thing about Stan/Spanos. That they want something more from Kroenke, a little bigger slice of pie for Spanos. That is a possibility.

And I’d like the issue resolved this month instead of delaying it another year.

yeah. don’t let this drag on for another year.

January 2, 2016 at 11:30 pm #36507

Zooey
Moderator

Just occurred to me.

The only guy Kroenke needs to make happy is Spanos. If Spanos can be made happy, everybody will sign off on Kroenke’s move. Kroenke gets Spanos, and he gets all of Spanos’ friends. He has to let Spanos buy a cut of the stadium action.

January 3, 2016 at 12:16 am #36508

InvaderRam
Moderator

they’re at a stalemate right now. the only other thing i can see happening is spanos gets his stadium in san diego and then kroenke gets the blessing to move. that would take years though and that’s exactly what i don’t want to see.

January 3, 2016 at 12:24 pm #36544

sdram
Participant

There are two scenario’s I don’t want to see. The first is that no final decision is made. The second is that the Rams move to London or Lisbon or somewhere across the sea. Canada, I could live with. Mmmmmmm Texas… well, on second thought there are three scenarios – Texas is definitely on the sd no scenario list.

If they stay in St Louis – I’m all in. If they move to Inglewood – good for me too. Just get it done already.

January 3, 2016 at 12:33 pm #36547

nittany ram
Moderator

sdram wrote:

There are two scenario’s I don’t want to see. The first is that no final decision is made. The second is that the Rams move to London or Lisbon or somewhere across the sea. Canada, I could live with. Mmmmmmm Texas… well, on second thought there are three scenarios – Texas is definitely on the sd no scenario list.

If they stay in St Louis – I’m all in. If they move to Inglewood – good for me too. Just get it done already.

I feel the same way.

January 3, 2016 at 12:49 pm #36550
wv
Participant
sdram wrote:

There are two scenario’s I don’t want to see. The first is that no final decision is made. The second is that the Rams move to London or Lisbon or somewhere across the sea. Canada, I could live with. Mmmmmmm Texas… well, on second thought there are three scenarios – Texas is definitely on the sd no scenario list.

If they stay in St Louis – I’m all in. If they move to Inglewood – good for me too. Just get it done already.

I am to the point where I am in favor
of the Rams being Nomads.
A team with no home. Wondering
in the wilderness for eons…I mean
wAndering…ya know. Like in Lost in Space.
There could be monsters. And robots.

The onliest thing I dont want is a
stadium for TWO teams. I hate sharing.
I see no earthly reason why I should have
to see Charger banners and shit,
hanging from a stadium
that houses the Rams.

Its bad enough they will be playing in
Walmart-Exxon-Monsanto-BlackWater-Verizon-Mobil-Nike-
Pentagon-Boeing-Occupation-Empire-Death-Star Stadium.
Thats bad enough. But this whole “sharing” thing is
more than I can stand. I mean how bout if they just
share that Seattle stadium with the Seahawks. Maybe
they could just share the “12th Man” as well.

Owners. I loathe them all.

How bout if the Rams just play
somewhere on Route 66, each Sunday.

w
v
- This reply was modified 8 years, 10 months ago by wv.
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