Isn't Defense supposed to be his strong suit?

Recent Forum Topics Forums The Rams Huddle Isn't Defense supposed to be his strong suit?

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  • #55588
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    This is the NFL stats

    We are 17th overall in total D
    – 23rd overall against the run
    – 16th overall against the pass
    – 17th overall in points against, giving up 22.8 points a game.

    #55589
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    The defense has been without three of their best players the last couple weeks. They’ll improve when Brockers, Quinn and TruJo are back to health.

    #55591
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    The defense has been without three of their best players the last couple weeks. They’ll improve when Brockers, Quinn and TruJo are back to health.

    Does not matter. The Defense is his bread and butter. Injuries is a poor excuse of coaching, lack of preparedness. Outside of the Seattle game, we have struggled on D all year, and we didn’t have the injuries then.

    #55595
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    The defense has been without three of their best players the last couple weeks. They’ll improve when Brockers, Quinn and TruJo are back to health.

    Does not matter.

    Of course it matters.

    If you had to put money down on the Rams but could choose your game, which game would you choose?

    One where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson at full speed?

    Or one where all 3 were out?

    #55604
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    We had them against the 49ers and Buccaneers. What is the excuse?

    #55607
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    We had them against the 49ers and Buccaneers. What is the excuse?

    I;m sorry Jack I hit edit instead of quote and kind of butchered your post there. I straightened it out as best I could.

    But to reply to what’s there.

    I don’t use the “e” word, Jack. To call someone’s argument an “excuse” is to be disdainful and dismissive.

    But back to my bet.

    Now unless you claim that with Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson the Rams should never be defeated…which I doubt you would claim…then consider the bet. Do the odds favor them winning more with those 3 or less with those 3?

    If you had to choose a game to bet on the Rams, would it be one where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson or one where they didn’t?

    I bet I know your answer, since your answer would be reasonable.

    So therefore yes, having those 3 out makes a difference.

    #55608
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    We had them against the 49ers and Buccaneers. What is the excuse?

    I;m sorry Jack I hit edit instead of quote and kind of butchered your post there. I straightened it out as best I could.

    But to reply to what’s there.

    I don’t use the “e” word, Jack. To call someone’s argument an “excuse” is to be disdainful and dismissive.

    But back to my bet.

    Now unless you claim that with Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson the Rams should never be defeated…which I doubt you would claim…then consider the bet. Do the odds favor them winning more with those 3 or less with those 3?

    If you had to choose a game to bet on the Rams, would it be one where they had Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson or one where they didn’t?

    I bet I know your answer, since your answer would be reasonable.

    So therefore yes, having those 3 out makes a difference.

    I would expect next men up, be coached up, and prepared to play well.

    #55609
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I would expect next men up, be coached up, and prepared to play well.

    So you think there are teams 2 deep when it comes to a top pass-rushing right defensive end?

    Name the teams you;ve known through all NFL history that were 2 deep that way. That is they could afford to lose a top pass rushing end because they didn’t lose anything with the next guy up. How many teams have ever been that deep at end? (And that’s not to mention the fact that it’s both a top corner and a top end.)

    Because see the issue is, not replacing A player. It’s replacing one of the top players in the league.

    Is a team better off with one of the top defensive ends in the league? Cause if not I don’t know why they extended him. Turns out according to you, you can get just as good production for cheaper from your bench.

    I keep asking these tough but obvious questions and you keep repeating coaching cliches.

    #55610
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    I would expect next men up, be coached up, and prepared to play well.

    So you think there are teams 2 deep when it comes to a top pass-rushing right defensive end?

    Name the teams you;ve known through all NFL history that were 2 deep that way. That is they could afford to lose a top pass rushing end because they didn’t lose anything with the next guy up. How many teams have ever been that deep at end? (And that’s not to mention the fact that it’s both a top corner and a top end.)

    Because see the issue is, not replacing A player. It’s replacing one of the top players in the league.

    Is a team better off with one of the top defensive ends in the league? Cause if not I don’t know why they extended him. Turns out according to you, you can get just as good production for cheaper from your bench.

    I keep asking these tough but obvious questions and you keep repeating coaching cliches.

    If the Head Coaches strength is defense, like Jeff Fisher is supposed to be, I would expect it to do well, even with 11 new starters. If he struggles with that, then that is a problem.

    #55612
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    I would expect next men up, be coached up, and prepared to play well.

    So you think there are teams 2 deep when it comes to a top pass-rushing right defensive end?

    Name the teams you;ve known through all NFL history that were 2 deep that way. That is they could afford to lose a top pass rushing end because they didn’t lose anything with the next guy up. How many teams have ever been that deep at end? (And that’s not to mention the fact that it’s both a top corner and a top end.)

    Because see the issue is, not replacing A player. It’s replacing one of the top players in the league.

    Is a team better off with one of the top defensive ends in the league? Cause if not I don’t know why they extended him. Turns out according to you, you can get just as good production for cheaper from your bench.

    I keep asking these tough but obvious questions and you keep repeating coaching cliches.

    If the Head Coaches strength is defense, like Jeff Fisher is supposed to be, I would expect it to do well, even with 11 new starters. If he struggles with that, then that is a problem.

    Jack, so you think a team’s performance falls all on the coach even when his best players are injured? The coach should be able to plug any player in and get good results? In other words the player doesn’t matter – only the coach matters.

    If that’s the case then why does the NFL pay millions of dollars on scouting departments? Why do they spend millions flying scouts to college games to evaluate players and why do they fly entire coaching staffs to a dozen or more college combines and pro days every year? If what you say is true then why doesn’t every team in the league simply stock their teams with cheap scrubs?

    Because the players do matter, right? And the better they are the more they matter and the harder they are to replace. That’s why coaches can’t be expected to do as well when too many key pieces of their roster are hurt. The players matter.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #55616
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    just to play devil’s advocate houston is without jj watt who is arguably the best player period in the nfl. and he wasn’t even healthy the three games he did play.

    the defense is ranked 6th overall in total yards allowed.

    of course you could go off different metrics. on football outsiders houston is ranked 11th overall in dvoa. rams are ranked 14th.

    i don’t know what other injuries the texans have suffered compared to the rams.

    #55621
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    just to play devil’s advocate houston is without jj watt who is arguably the best player period in the nfl. and he wasn’t even healthy the three games he did play.

    the defense is ranked 6th overall in total yards allowed.

    of course you could go off different metrics. on football outsiders houston is ranked 11th overall in dvoa. rams are ranked 14th.

    i don’t know what other injuries the texans have suffered compared to the rams.

    Who else would they have to be without for it to be equivalent to Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson?

    Cause the Rams aren’t missing just one player.

    #55622
    JackPMiller
    Participant

    Jack, so you think a team’s performance falls all on the coach even when his best players are injured? The coach should be able to plug any player in and get good results? In other words the player doesn’t matter – only the coach matters.

    If that’s the case then why does the NFL pay millions of dollars on scouting departments? Why do they spend millions flying scouts to college games to evaluate players and why do they fly entire coaching staffs to a dozen or more college combines and pro days every year? If what you say is true then why doesn’t every team in the league simply stock their teams with cheap scrubs?

    Because the players do matter, right? And the better they are the more they matter and the harder they are to replace. That’s why coaches can’t be expected to do as well when too many key pieces of their roster are hurt. The players matter.

    The scouts get players to plug into systems that fits what the coaches need. It is still up to the coach to develop the player, and have them ready for the just in case. As a coach, you have to be prepared for everything.

    #55623
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    As a coach, you have to be prepared for everything.

    You keep repeating abstract pronouncements about coaches.

    Meanwhile, I can’t think of a single team that was 2 deep at right DE, to the point where they could lose a top starter at that spot (like a Dent, Freeney, or Haley) without any effect.

    And that’s not even mentioning losing a top CB at the same time.

    .

    #55630
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    just to play devil’s advocate houston is without jj watt who is arguably the best player period in the nfl. and he wasn’t even healthy the three games he did play.

    the defense is ranked 6th overall in total yards allowed.

    of course you could go off different metrics. on football outsiders houston is ranked 11th overall in dvoa. rams are ranked 14th.

    i don’t know what other injuries the texans have suffered compared to the rams.

    Who else would they have to be without for it to be equivalent to Quinn, Brockers, and Johnson?

    Cause the Rams aren’t missing just one player.

    well. watt is a pretty good defensive player. he and donald are right up there.

    they lost a starting cornerback and their starting strong safety.

    on top of that they lost another starting cornerback (although that happened just this sunday).

    now obviously the rams’ defensive line is the strength of this defense so it’s a little bit different when your injuries are directly affecting the strength of your team. especially when your missing a premier edge rusher.

    and despite that the rams defense still ranks in the upper half of the league according to some metrics.

    if i really had to criticize them i’d criticize more the personnel moves rather than “coaching”.

    i wasn’t in favor of trading up. but again. this could end up being a good move. just not the move i would have made. in the short term it looks bad. in the long run they could have a franchise qb in the making.

    #55640
    sanbagger
    Participant

    we are seeing a completely different defensive scheme from the good guys this year than what we’ve seen in the last few years.

    GW loves to pressure the QB and is known for inventive ways to bring extra rushers.

    This year the Rams have been primarily a cover 2 and 4 rushers team…even from game 1 when everybody, with the exception of EJ, was healthy.

    I think they started they year this way because EJ was out and Sens was starting and the safeties were a question mark….so they tried to give the DB’s a little room to not get beat over the top. Now that Tru is down, Sens has been canned…insert Hill…., and the safeties are playing better than hoped. But they are still trying to protect the DB’s playing bend but don’t break.

    #55642
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    we are seeing a completely different defensive scheme from the good guys this year than what we’ve seen in the last few years.

    GW loves to pressure the QB and is known for inventive ways to bring extra rushers.

    This year the Rams have been primarily a cover 2 and 4 rushers team…even from game 1 when everybody, with the exception of EJ, was healthy.

    I think they started they year this way because EJ was out and Sens was starting and the safeties were a question mark….so they tried to give the DB’s a little room to not get beat over the top. Now that Tru is down, Sens has been canned…insert Hill…., and the safeties are playing better than hoped. But they are still trying to protect the DB’s playing bend but don’t break.

    Excellent point. Last year with JJenks and TruJo at corner, they could do more things defensively. This year they have had to play more vanilla to protect their newbies in the secondary.

    #55681
    sanbagger
    Participant

    we are seeing a completely different defensive scheme from the good guys this year than what we’ve seen in the last few years.

    GW loves to pressure the QB and is known for inventive ways to bring extra rushers.

    This year the Rams have been primarily a cover 2 and 4 rushers team…even from game 1 when everybody, with the exception of EJ, was healthy.

    I think they started they year this way because EJ was out and Sens was starting and the safeties were a question mark….so they tried to give the DB’s a little room to not get beat over the top. Now that Tru is down, Sens has been canned…insert Hill…., and the safeties are playing better than hoped. But they are still trying to protect the DB’s playing bend but don’t break.

    Excellent point. Last year with JJenks and TruJo at corner, they could do more things defensively. This year they have had to play more vanilla to protect their newbies in the secondary.

    That’s the only explanation I can come up with.

    I know they mush rush guys like Wilson but to not bring it against Stafford….they have to be trying to protect some area.

    Coming in to the season one of my biggest concerns was the linebacking corps. I think they have done a good job…Tree and Barron are very visible and active and Forrest seems like an up and comer (I’m not saying the name Fletcher yet) but for a late round selection he has shown up.

    #55682
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    well and one of the keys to running an effective cover 2 i believe is to be able to have a 4 man rush. that goes down significantly when you lose quinn. your edge rusher. as well as hayes on the other side and brockers in the middle.

    #55683
    sanbagger
    Participant

    well and one of the keys to running an effective cover 2 i believe is to be able to have a 4 man rush. that goes down significantly when you lose quinn. your edge rusher. as well as hayes on the other side and brockers in the middle.

    I always thought that was the most important part of the cover 2…that and having good DT’s that can push the line like the old Tampa Bucs.

    That’s why it’s a little frustrating for me…..when the DB’s do a good job it seems as though the QB has time to wait.

    If they let Eli feel comfortable, he will pick them apart. They need to rattle him, and he can be rattled, and the only way to do that is hit him.

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