Is Greg Williams an egomaniac ?

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  • #3496
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Well Vitt seems to think so.

    One wonders if GW is so narcissistic
    that he wears out his welcome after a
    year or two.

    I dunno.

    Maybe he’s changed some. Maybe Fisher
    knows how to handle him.

    w
    v

    =========================
    Bad Blood Could Boil Over
    http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2014/08/bad_blood_will_forever_run_bet.html

    MICHAEL DeMOCKER / THE TIMES-PICAYUNE
    Defensive coordinator Gregg Williams adds some heat of his own to afternoon practice at Saints camp on Monday, August 15, 2011.

    Michael DeMocker

    St. Louis — Traditionally, New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton is quick to embrace a former assistant coach on the field before a game.

    Names like the Bills’ Doug Marrone and Raiders’ Dennis Allen come to mind and there are probably a handful of others Payton has smiled and bantered with during pregame warmups. I’m sure we’ll see Payton and Lions offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi hug it out at Ford Field in mid-October when Payton spots his former quarterbacks coach.

    The Saints will take on the St. Louis Rams on Friday night at the Edward Jones Dome. Gregg Williams, the Saints’ former defensive coordinator once praised for guiding the defense in New Orleans’ Super Bowl XLIV triumph, will coach his first game as the Rams’ defensive coordinator.

    It’s actually Williams’ first game on the sideline since the Saints’ 2011 NFC divisional playoff loss at San Francisco, and his first game as a defensive coordinator since being dubbed by the NFL as the ringleader of the Saints’ alleged bounty program.

    There will be no glad-handing between Payton and Williams. There also will be no hugs between Williams and Saints linebacker coach Joe Vitt. No jokes. Probably no eye contact, either.

    Payton, who was suspended for the 2012 season in connection to the bounty scandal, said upon his reinstatement into the NFL in January 2013 he had no desire to talk with Williams. Payton, though, said a few months later he didn’t regret hiring Williams, saying what the 2009 staff established couldn’t be taken away from them.

    No suspension, lost wages or damaged reputation can erase the Saints’ Super Bowl XLIV crown.

    But there’s no forgiving and no forgetting in this story. Not with these guys.

    The friction between the Saints and Williams began early in their working relationship. It boiled over as Williams exited the Saints en route to St. Louis after the 2011 season.

    Vitt served a six-game ban in connection to the bounty scandal. He also served as the interim for Payton during the 2012 season. Vitt held nothing back in his bounty hearing testimony about Williams.

    “And the first time we brought Gregg Williams, we said, ‘Jesus Christ, this guy is nuts,'” Vitt said. “You know, I mean, talking about himself, talking about his accomplishments, talking about his money, talking about how he should — you know, the guy had a pretty bad track record in being a pretty good defensive coordinator.”

    Vitt continued his verbal assault on Williams when questioned about his departure to St. Louis in the bounty hearings in December 2012:

    “Now, I think the biggest thing that everybody gets tired of with Gregg is just day after day, week after week of the bull(expletive), the crazy stories I mean, I’m going to give you my texts. I’ll show you that all the time he’s got this insatiable desire to talk about himself. He’s got this insatiable desire to talk about how good he is and his family is.

    “And in the course of all of the bull(expletive) stories, you’ve got to work your way through it, you’ve got to — you know, you’ve got to try to get the meat and the potatoes of what’s true and not true. But after a while, that just gets to you. It just gets to you.

    “I would say the final straw was the last two weeks of the season — of the Detroit, San Francisco (playoff games), you know, Gregg kept coming to Sean every day and wanted his contract extension and wanted his extension done. And Sean said, well, we’ll talk about it at the end of the season, well knowing what direction Sean was going in.

    “And the last week of the season, it’s all in the papers, you know, Gregg has gone to St. Louis, it’s his best friend Jeff Fisher, you know, ba-boom, ba-boom, ba-boom, trying to squeeze Sean, trying to squeeze (GM) Mickey (Loomis) to get his contract. And the day after the playoff game that we lost against San Francisco, he went into Sean’s office and says I need to know right now, I need my contract, I’ve got to let Jeff know what I’m doing. And Sean said, you’re not going to get a contract here. I think it’s best go to St. Louis with your friend Jeff. And that was it. …

    “It didn’t end pretty. It didn’t end nice. I’m sure that Gregg has a lot of animosity towards me now.”

    All of this happened before the bounty drama became public.

    Williams returned to an NFL coaching staff last season, serving as a defensive consultant with Tennessee to aid longtime coaching friend Jerry Gray. Then Jeff Fisher, Williams’ admitted best friend in coaching, hired the former Saints defensive coordinator after, ironically, Rob Ryan left St. Louis after the briefest of stints to head to the Saints as their defensive guru.

    And now Williams makes his return mentoring a defense.

    Here’s the one question I can’t stop from circling my brain: Why would the Saints play anyone in their projected starting offensive lineup in this preseason game?

    We already know Drew Brees isn’t playing with his oblique injury, despite Payton’s attempts to deflect the obvious. Oh, and don’t forget Brees questioned Williams’ mental state right after former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue vacated the suspensions for Jonathan Vilma, Will Smith, Anthony Hargrove and Scott Fujita.

    I wouldn’t have cared if Brees was injured or not. My advice would have been to sit Brees no matter what.

    It’s not like the first unit would play more than a series or two, anyway. It’s not worth the risk of playing the Saints’ most valuable offensive assets.

    Then, of course, there’s the Saints’ infamous preseason opener in the 2011 season against San Francisco and then-rookie coach Jim Harbaugh. The alleged backstory of a non-phone call between Payton and Harbaugh about how the game would be played allegedly spurred hard feelings. True, false or somewhere in the middle, something gave Williams the itch to blitz.

    The Saints defense, under Williams, battered and brutalized Niners quarterback Alex Smith during the first quarter. New Orleans forced a sack-fumble on the second possession and had a sack-fumble for a touchdown reversed thanks to a challenge.

    Graham remembered as much when asked Wednesday about facing Williams’ defense Friday night.

    “He (Williams) zero-blitzed four times out of (the first) nine (plays),” Graham said with a smirk. “That’s who he is, and he brings it.”

    Sabotaging his coaching career over revenge in his first game back as a defensive coordinator would be as foolish as it gets for Williams, right?

    If Williams is a “rogue” coach as the Saints claim he is, what’s to say we can’t put this past him:

    “Gregg Williams had a program, a bounty program in to try to hurt opposing coaches on the sideline,” Vitt said in the bounty hearings testimony. “In other words, when you miss a play on the sideline of a tackle, you would get a bonus for knocking the coach down and knocking out his knee. Don’t roll your eyes. Don’t roll your eyes.”

    #3498
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    One wonders if GW is so narcissistic
    that he wears out his welcome after a
    year or two.

    I dunno.

    Maybe he’s changed some. Maybe Fisher
    knows how to handle him.

    w
    v

    I think he unquestionably is. IE egotistical. (Don’t know about wears out his welcome.) Anyway he has some Martz to him, I think.

    But…now he’s OUR sunovabitch.

    #3499
    Winnbrad
    Participant

    I think he unquestionably is. He has some Martz to him, I think.

    But…now he’s OUR sunovabitch.

    Oh yeah. 🙂

    #3515
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Truer words may not have ever been spoken… about Fisher AND now Williams…

    THEY are now our sunsobitches…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #3523
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    Truer words may not have ever been spoken… about Fisher AND now Williams…

    THEY are now our sunsobitches…

    I wonder which coaches have been
    the biggest jackasses in NFL history?

    Al Davis? Buddy Ryan? Greg Williams?
    Harbaugh?

    w
    v

    #3524
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    I wonder which coaches have been the biggest jackasses in NFL history? Al Davis? Buddy Ryan? Greg Williams? Harbaugh?

    Truer words may not have ever been spoken… about Fisher AND now Williams…

    THEY are now our sunsobitches…

    Are you guys ambivalent about Williams?

    Not that that’s an unlikely response to him.

    Just curious to hear that view spelled out.

    #3526
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    wv wrote:
    I wonder which coaches have been the biggest jackasses in NFL history? Al Davis? Buddy Ryan? Greg Williams? Harbaugh?

    Mackeyser wrote:
    Truer words may not have ever been spoken… about Fisher AND now Williams…

    THEY are now our sunsobitches…

    Are you guys ambivalent about Williams?

    Not that that’s an unlikely response to him.

    Just curious to hear that view spelled out.

    No, i’m not ambivalent: I can’t stand him.

    I think he’s set up to be coach of the year though.
    Add this personnel to ‘any’ aggressive, experienced
    coach and i think he would have a top five defense.
    I would think.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #3528
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    No, i’m not ambivalent: I can’t stand him.

    I think he’s set up to be coach of the year though. Add this personnel to ‘any’ aggressive, experienced coach and i think he would have a top five defense. I would think.

    Let me try a theory. I don’t know why this is, but, it seems more tolerable or less INtolerable to have a coach you can’t stand if they are the defensive coordinator.

    It’s less tolerable if it’s the OC, and not tolerable at all if it’s the HC.

    Personally, I think his experiences have whittled Wms down some and that he’s also in a position where they know him and he is less of an issue. I think both things are true. So to me all that’s left really is the brilliant coordinator, with the ego having been chipped down a bit.

    #3530
    Mackeyser
    Moderator

    Well, firstly, I don’t tend to judge people any which way. I experience them for myself or at the very least, let their actions inform me.

    So, I don’t know who or what Greg Williams is…NOW.

    He may very well have been every kind of sonuvabitch and the worst sort of egomaniac. I dunno.

    Is he that, now?

    I dunno. I have no idea what this very humbling process that the NFL has put him through has yielded.

    He doesn’t seem to have lost much passion for the game, but we certainly aren’t seeing or hearing much about Williams being a “mad dog” or any of that and you know the local reporters would be on that if there were any of that because it would be red meat to report. Just as much, if Williams were engaging in any of the behaviors that Vitt complained about, that would be news as well.

    So, is he still…THAT guy? I dunno. I really don’t.

    I tend to doubt it only because that would mean he’s learned nothing and not grown at all from his experiences. That doesn’t jibe with Fisher hiring him (why sign up for that kind of drama or even actions that may damage the franchise?), the NFL endorsing his being hired or pretty much every report from players and direct contact with reporters as well as observations during OTAs and Camp thus far.

    So, while it’s entirely possible he’s the same guy, I don’t think it’s very probable. I think he’s changed and the events of Bountygate and the aftermath and subsequent events including his stint in Tennessee changed him.

    I’m GLAD we hired Williams because he’s an aggressive DC who understands how to develop a secondary while getting pressure not only with base sets, but also with exotic blitz packages. And with our base DL, good Lord….

    I truly hope that he’s NOT the same guy he was in New Orleans. I honestly can’t imagine how that’s possible, although I acknowledge that it is possible. I expect that he understands things he didn’t understand before and has a perspective that he didn’t have before. I expect he also has a humility that he didn’t have before.

    That said, I don’t think he’s lost his edge as far as his passion for football, defenses or getting after the QB and after last season, that’s just what we needed. That and a DC who won’t have our CBs playing 11 yards off…

    Sports is the crucible of human virtue. The distillate remains are human vice.

    #3535
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    they’re all sons of bitches. but williams probably is moreso than the average nfl coach.

    he IS from the buddy ryan coaching tree after all… that goes for fisher too.

    #3538
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    they’re all sons of bitches. but williams probably is moreso than the average nfl coach.

    he IS from the buddy ryan coaching tree after all… that goes for fisher too.

    Well if you-all love him so much,
    why dont you just become
    Ram Fans then and be done with it.

    w
    v

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 3 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #3541
    Avatar photoInvaderRam
    Moderator

    it does come off to me as coming to the right situation at the right time.

    walton had pretty much the same defense, but williams comes at a time when ogletree and brockers should have breakout years. and then to top that off, they add one of the more pro-ready defensive tackles in recent memory basically as a gift. not to mention joyner.

    if the defense blows up, this will inflate his ego even more.

    if the defense flops, i think his reputation takes a huge hit.

    #3544
    laram
    Participant

    zn, buddy you’re kidding right? How many jobs has Williams had, 6? He has worn out his welcome everyplace he’s been.

    Check this out. Look at how his defenses have declined, its good early then fizzles out.

    Its like Venturi says, he’s a “quick fix” guy, but nothing sustainable.

    That is symptomatic of something, that something should be obvious.

    He’s an arrogant prick, that wears on people.

    Laram

    #3546
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    zn, buddy you’re kidding right? How many jobs has Williams had, 6? He has worn out his welcome everyplace he’s been.

    Check this out. Look at how his defenses have declined, its good early then fizzles out.

    Its like Venturi says, he’s a “quick fix” guy, but nothing sustainable.

    That is symptomatic of something, that something should be obvious.

    He’s an arrogant prick, that wears on people.

    I don’t agree that he can’t sustain. He had one bad year in Washington, and I read up on that one. The issue was personnel, which he was indirectly responsible for. Either way they bounced back the following year. That means they had a top defense 3 out of 4 years, and the 1 bad year I looked into–there was a ton written about it. New Orleans? It took a couple of years of personnel repairing plus getting over bountygate to get them playing decently. At one point, in 2011, the DL combined had fewer sacks than Quinn did himself last year. The Saints just never had players.

    Venturi is simply wrong about him being a quick fix guy. The record does not demonstrate that. In fact Venturi has discussed Wms before and did not say that in his previous interviews.

    There are plenty of arrogant pricks who wear on people in the NFL. If they can field good teams, they tend to stick around.

    So we just see this one differently, which is par for the course with posters in general on a lot of different issues that are this controversial.

    #3550
    laram
    Participant

    Nah, that’s simply not true.

    He has had as many bottom feeder defenses as he’s had top 5.

    Sticking around means nothing in the good old boys club.

    The NFL tends to recycle its own.

    Many examples of that.

    Laram

    #3551
    laram
    Participant

    Bottom line in Washington.

    3rd in 2014
    9th in 2005
    30th in 2006

    The circumstances don’t matter, that’s a steep decline.

    It has been that way essentially everyplace he’s been.

    He has had several bottom third in the league defenses.

    Oh and I was wrong, he’s had 7 different NFL jobs.

    Laram

    #3556
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    Bottom line in Washington.

    3rd in 2014
    9th in 2005
    30th in 2006

    The circumstances don’t matter, that’s a steep decline.

    It has been that way essentially everyplace he’s been.

    He has had several bottom third in the league defenses.

    Oh and I was wrong, he’s had 7 different NFL jobs.

    This is the way I look at everything: the circumstances always matter.
    In 2007, the Washington defense was 8th. So they bounced back from a bad year in 2006. Similarly, in 2011 the Saints defense fell off when basically its DL collapsed for various reasons.

    The Washington press analyzed the 2006 collapse in detail. There’s a lot of info on it.

    For anyone who’s interested:

    http://theramshuddle.com/topic/the-archive-4-articles-from-20067-on-the-collapse-of-wms-2006-washington-d/

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