I'm so sorry, United Kingdom

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  • #46967
    Avatar photonittany ram
    Moderator

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/06/24/im-so-sorry-united-kingdom/

    I’m so sorry, United Kingdom
    British-flag

    Or should I say, I’m so sorry, England and Wales? Because it looks like you’re going to have to drop that “United” stuff soon. You might also want to reconsider that “Great” prefixing “Britain”. Brexit won their referendum. The UK is going to begin the process of breaking from the EU. Stock markets are reacting with shock. The people who despise Nigel Farage are also shocked. Other countries in Europe are dismayed.

    I’m afraid I see it in terms of what’s going on in the US today, and that worries me. Gary Younge’s take on the vote is informative. He talks about the incompetence of the Remain campaign, and how it was oblivious to the concerns of the people and set itself aside as the smart people who know better than you do, and never made a good case for remaining in the EU. And then he tears into the Leave campaigners.

    It is a banal axiom to insist that “it’s not racist to talk about immigration”. It’s not racist to talk about black people, Jews or Muslims either. The issue is not whether you talk about them but how you talk about them and whether they ever get a chance to talk for themselves. When you dehumanise immigrants, using vile imagery and language, scapegoating them for a nation’s ills and targeting them as job-stealing interlopers, you stoke prejudice and foment hatred.

    The chutzpah with which the Tory right – the very people who had pioneered austerity, damaging jobs, services and communities – blamed immigrants for the lack of resources was breathtaking. The mendacity with which a section of the press fanned those flames was nauseating. The pusillanimity of the remain campaign’s failure to counter these claims was indefensible.

    Not everyone, or even most, of the people who voted leave were driven by racism. But the leave campaign imbued racists with a confidence they have not enjoyed for many decades and poured arsenic into the water supply of our national conversation.

    In this atmosphere of racial animus and class contempt, political dislocation and electoral opportunism, the space for the arguments we need to have about immigration, democracy, and austerity simply did not exist. Our politics failed us. And since it is our politics only we can fix it.

    I see this same dynamic playing out here in the US. The almost-successful Sanders campaign tells us there’s a huge part of the electorate that wants change from politics as usual, and yet the Democrats have anointed a moderate conservative, status quo candidate. Will Clinton actually respond to that productively? Will she make changes in party policy that will appeal to that broad swathe of the country that wants a more progressive government? She could end up the David Cameron of America.

    Younge’s description above also fits the Trump campaign. The know-nothings are always a force to be reckoned with in this country, and if Brexit could win, could Trump rally the same forces to win here? That’s possible (but unlikely, we say, although everyone was saying Brexit was unlikely, too), but one way it could happen is if the Democrats try to take an uninspiring middle course.

    What do I mean, “if”? The Democrats always take the path of trying to avoid offending anyone, and thereby end up pissing everyone off.

    The world’s a somewhat scarier place this morning. I hope my country doesn’t end up contributing even more to the fear.

    Share this:

    Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/06/24/im-so-sorry-united-kingdom/#ixzz4CUxVB9Sk

    • This topic was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Avatar photonittany ram.
    #46973
    Avatar photosnowman
    Participant

    It’s ok. The Pound dropped to a new low vs. the Dollar, so people are more likely to fly to Scotland to play golf on Donald’s course.

    #46974
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Thanks, Nittany. Very good article.

    Younge is good. And I’ve come to view the Guardian UK as one of the best online newspapers. Really good for multimedia, too, book reviews, movies, etc. etc.

    I don’t think any of the major American papers can match it.

    For us leftists, Le Monde diplomatique is even better. But it doesn’t have the online bells and whistles of the Guardian.

    http://mondediplo.com/

    #46975
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    I’m afraid I see it in terms of what’s going on in the US today, and that worries me. Gary Younge’s take on the vote is informative. He talks about the incompetence of the Remain campaign, and how it was oblivious to the concerns of the people and set itself aside as the smart people who know better than you do, and never made a good case for remaining in the EU.

    This is EXACTLY what went through my mind.

    Trump is the irrational, racist, fear-mongering bull in the china shop that was supposed to fall aside after every incindiary comment, but never did.

    Clinton, meanwhile, “knows better than we do,” she’s experienced, and has no case outside of that to be president.

    Trump overcame the establishment and just kept winning. Clinton overcame her opposition by being smart and experienced and nothing else. I don’t see either one of them changing their gameplan.

    #46977
    waterfield
    Participant

    What I don’t get is the age difference in the vote-if in fact this was in part a racist fueled vote. By far the older generation in Britain-from what the polls show-voted to stay while the younger vote voted to leave. I would have thought the opposite would be the case if racism was behind the vote.

    #46979
    bnw
    Blocked

    The nanny state is bad. A nanny state ran from Brussels is even worse. The UK voted for independence. They should be congratulated. Their destiny is their own.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46980
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator

    What I don’t get is the age difference in the vote-if in fact this was in part a racist fueled vote. By far the older generation in Britain-from what the polls show-voted to stay while the younger vote voted to leave. I would have thought the opposite would be the case if racism was behind the vote.

    I believe you have that backwards. The polls I saw leading up to the vote showed that each age group progressively became more inclined to Leave the older the group was. And one of my Brit friends yesterday was complaining that it appeared young people weren’t turning out to vote (and he was a strong Remain).

    #46983
    waterfield
    Participant

    I don’t think so Zooey. In interview after interview on the BBC this morning members of Parliment pointed out how the younger voters compared to the older establishment wanted to stay in.

    Here’s an exact quote from Reuters: “Older voters backed Brexit, the young wanted to stay in”.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-idUSKCN0Z902K

    BTW: given your opinions on Hillary you should attend a rally picnic with me on Sunday the 10th of July. You can sit down and have a beer with her for a private chat. You might enjoy the encounter.

    #46985
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    Waterfield, unless I misread you, I think you’re contradicting yourself.

    It looks like you first said the older voters were more likely to want to stay, and then with the last comment, more likely to want to leave.

    Then, again, I think I may need some more coffee. So I might be wrong.

    :>)

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #46992
    bnw
    Blocked

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how-the-results-compare-to-the-uks-educated-old-an/

    The Brexit vote overlapped strongly with the UK’s older population.
    The higher the level of education, the higher the EU support.
    Last year’s Ukip vote overlaps perfectly with Brexit support.
    Areas with high immigration wanted to stay in the EU.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #46994
    waterfield
    Participant

    I think I’m the one that needs coffee Billy. What I meant was that the youngsters wanted to stay the oldsters wanted to leave. Which would make my earlier post about racism nonsensical.

    #46995
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    I think I’m the one that needs coffee Billy. What I meant was that the youngsters wanted to stay the oldsters wanted to leave. Which would make my earlier post about racism nonsensical.

    No worries, Waterfield. It’s a very confusing world out there. To be really Zen about it all, we need to go with the flow and be confused and confusing ourselves. Something I’ve always been really good at . . . even before I discovered Zazen.

    ;>)

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #46999
    Avatar photojoemad
    Participant

    It’s ok. The Pound dropped to a new low vs. the Dollar, so people are more likely to fly to Scotland to play golf on Donald’s course.

    that’s funny…

    I am very surprised by the outcome of the vote.

    #47003
    Avatar photoZooey
    Moderator
    #47005
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    ===========================
    http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/06/brexit-wins
    Brexit Wins

    Kevin Drum

    British voters have voted to leave the EU. What a waste. I’m skeptical that this will cause economic Armageddon, but I doubt that it will do Britain any good either. Now they’ll spend the next three or four years up to their gills in rancorous negotiations on the terms for exit, and all to accomplish next to nothing.

    In the short term, however, everyone is going to freak out. Financial markets are already throwing a fit, with the pound absolutely cratering. It had strengthened earlier in the week as it looked like Brexit would lose, but earlier tonight, as the first results started trickling in, it dropped like a stone. It lost more than 10 percent of its value in just a few hours, and is now trading at it lowest level against the dollar in 30 years.

    I don’t have any personal axe to grind on Brexit. Except for one: I am sick and tired of watching folks like Boris Johnson, Marine Le Pen, Donald Trump, and others appeal to the worst racial instincts of our species, only to be shushed by folks telling me that it’s not really racism driving their popularity. It’s economic angst. It’s regular folks tired of being spurned by out-of-touch elites. It’s a natural anxiety over rapid cultural change.

    Maybe it’s all those things. But at its core, it’s the last stand of old people who have been frightened to death by cynical right-wing media empires and the demagogues who enable them—all of whom have based their appeals on racism as overt as anything we’ve seen in decades. It’s loathsome beyond belief, and not something I thought I’d ever see in my lifetime. But that’s where we are.
    Get the scoop, straight from Mother Jones.

    #47006
    bnw
    Blocked

    Ah the left, to win scream racism and when they lose scream racism. A trick that doesn’t work any more. But must feel marvelous trying? Old habits die hard.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #47007
    Avatar photoEternal Ramnation
    Participant

    Ah the left, to win scream racism and when they lose scream racism. A trick that doesn’t work any more. But must feel marvelous trying? Old habits die hard.

    I am curious BNW, what is your definition of racism ? I never really thought all that much about it just lumping all things ;racist, racism , prejudice,bigotry together. Imo racism is different, it’s an ism a system that’s rigged where as racists and bigots come in all forms of human.

    #47008
    bnw
    Blocked

    Ah the left, to win scream racism and when they lose scream racism. A trick that doesn’t work any more. But must feel marvelous trying? Old habits die hard.

    I am curious BNW, what is your definition of racism ? I never really thought all that much about it just lumping all things ;racist, racism , prejudice,bigotry together. Imo racism is different, it’s an ism a system that’s rigged where as racists and bigots come in all forms of human.

    I agree with your definition. A system such as apartheid. The Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #47009
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    ======================

    Americans Confused By System Of Government In Which Leader Would Resign After Making Terrible Decision

    June 24, 2016

    WASHINGTON—In the wake of Prime Minister David Cameron’s announcement that he would leave office following the United Kingdom’s vote to exit the European Union, tens of millions of Americans expressed their confusion to reporters Friday about a system of government in which a leader would resign after making a terrible decision. “Wait, so he made a really awful choice with far-reaching negative consequences and now he’s just stepping down to let someone else take over? What?” said Colorado Springs, CO resident Evan Austin, echoing the sentiments of citizens across the United States who were left struggling to understand why a democratically elected head of government would relinquish control simply because they had been shown to have made a spectacularly bad judgment call. “So he jeopardized the future of his country, and instead of spending the next several years remaining in power while trying to paper over his mistakes, he’s just gone? Where’s the part where he denies any wrongdoing or tries to blame somebody else? This is absolutely crazy.” The American public noted, however, that they completely understood the part where voters who had made a demonstrably terrible decision continued to double down on it.
    http://www.theonion.com/article/kansas-outlaws-practice-of-evolution-2098

    #47010
    Avatar photoBilly_T
    Participant

    WV,

    Hope you and yours are more than just okay. Just heard your state has had massive flooding, with loss of life, and nearly every county is considered a disaster area.

    We were hit with heavy rains, lightning storms and flooding too, but not nearly like the other Virginia.

    Again, hope all is well.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Avatar photoBilly_T.
    #47012
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    WV,

    Hope you and yours are more than just okay. Just heard your state has had massive flooding, with loss of life, and nearly every county is considered a disaster area.

    We were hit with heavy rains, lightning storms and flooding too, but not nearly like the other Virginia.

    Again, hope all is well.

    —————–
    Things are fine in my town (northern part of wv).

    Its the southern part of the state thats under
    water, i believe. (I dont hardly watch the news, so
    i just found out about it myself)

    I’m trying to find someway to blame the flood on corpororate-capitalism
    but so far, it looks like an act of God. So, I may have
    to refrain from blaming today…

    w
    v

    #47030
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    noam for a few seconds on brexit

    ————————————
    After asking him why he thought ‘Brexit would be a bad idea’

    ‘UK government is at least as neoliberal as the EU. For all its flaws, the EU offers some kind of independent and (by comparative standards) constructive option in world affairs, and could do more. With Brexit, it will be weaker, and Britain will be even more a colony of the US. Britain will also lose the advantages of closer interactions with (relatively) civilized Europe.’

    Why is Chomsky against Brexit? from chomsky

    #47031
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    #47063
    waterfield
    Participant

    he Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

    “Nationalism” can be the foundation for “racism”. Just another way to excuse it. 87% of Britain’s population is white. Immigration fears was in large part the fuel that drove brexit. My own definition of racism includes the “I don’t like you because you’re different than I am”. Britain has a long hx of this type of thinking. My wife is Irish. My neighbor is from England and (jokingly) refers to her as the “mick” across the street. If he was serious I would call that a racist remark.

    The push back from globalization can also be said to be racist based. The uneducated older working class saw their jobs being taken by those “different”-hence the move toward “nationalism”.

    The EU was born from two world wars and provided a sense of economic security among a fractured Europe. Now Germany will once again become the strongest economic power in Europe a forbidding thought to those who recall the past. Putin could not be more happy today.

    A personal anecdote: My closest friend owns a manufacturing company in the sports business. A huge market for his equipment is in Europe and the far east. He is rightfully concerned that with the loss of our strongest ally in the European market he will be unable to continue to access those markets with the same economic freedom as before. And yet he is still a strong supporter of Trump who champions brexit. Go figure.

    #47066
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    he Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

    “Nationalism” can be the foundation for “racism”. Just another way to excuse it. 87% of Britain’s population is white. Immigration fears was in large part the fuel that drove brexit. My own definition of racism includes the “I don’t like you because you’re different than I am”. Britain has a long hx of this type of thinking. My wife is Irish. My neighbor is from England and (jokingly) refers to her as the “mick” across the street. If he was serious I would call that a racist remark.

    The push back from globalization can also be said to be racist based. The uneducated older working class saw their jobs being taken by those “different”-hence the move toward “nationalism”.

    The EU was born from two world wars and provided a sense of economic security among a fractured Europe. Now Germany will once again become the strongest economic power in Europe a forbidding thought to those who recall the past. Putin could not be more happy today.

    A personal anecdote: My closest friend owns a manufacturing company in the sports business. A huge market for his equipment is in Europe and the far east. He is rightfully concerned that with the loss of our strongest ally in the European market he will be unable to continue to access those markets with the same economic freedom as before. And yet he is still a strong supporter of Trump who champions brexit. Go figure.

    ================

    Racism and Nationalism are two different things (I dont like either one, fwiw)
    but they blur-together a lot of times with the Trumps, and America-firsters (and Britain-firsters). Its hard to separate the two, sometimes.

    Oftentimes you have a faction of america-firsters who are not racist but they are nationalist, joining forces with the racist-crowd to get their guy elected.

    Crooked-Hillary and the Crooked-Billionaire, battling for America’s…um…soul-less-ness.

    Strange times.

    w
    v

    #47080
    bnw
    Blocked

    he Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

    “Nationalism” can be the foundation for “racism”. Just another way to excuse it. 87% of Britain’s population is white. Immigration fears was in large part the fuel that drove brexit. My own definition of racism includes the “I don’t like you because you’re different than I am”. Britain has a long hx of this type of thinking. My wife is Irish. My neighbor is from England and (jokingly) refers to her as the “mick” across the street. If he was serious I would call that a racist remark.

    The push back from globalization can also be said to be racist based. The uneducated older working class saw their jobs being taken by those “different”-hence the move toward “nationalism”.

    The EU was born from two world wars and provided a sense of economic security among a fractured Europe. Now Germany will once again become the strongest economic power in Europe a forbidding thought to those who recall the past. Putin could not be more happy today.

    A personal anecdote: My closest friend owns a manufacturing company in the sports business. A huge market for his equipment is in Europe and the far east. He is rightfully concerned that with the loss of our strongest ally in the European market he will be unable to continue to access those markets with the same economic freedom as before. And yet he is still a strong supporter of Trump who champions brexit. Go figure.

    I think you go out of your way to find racism. It is what democrats are prone to do because within the party they are rewarded for it. The UK voted for independence. That isn’t racism. Why is it that people of color can take pride in their culture even when they have fled from their country to a country with a completely different culture yet caucasians are never afforded the same right? The EU was dumping immigrants and criminals into the UK. The people realized that their vote didn’t matter since their government was subservient to Brussels. After 40 years they said enough. It was a voluntary union from the start.

    Mick is a racist remark? I don’t get that at all. Polock, Dago, Wop, Kraut are not racist either. Irish, English, Polish, Italian, German are all predominantly caucasian so how can that be racist? Now spic or spear chucker sure that is racist since that isn’t about a specific nationality. Just like cracker is racist. I grew up in St. Louis and we used Mick, polock, dago, wop, kraut and others all the time and there wasn’t a chip on anyones shoulder.

    I disagree that opposition to globalization is based upon racism. That is so insulting, so out of touch. For those who have been harmed by their jobs being sent overseas or over the border it is about the strain on their family, community, and region for no other reason than to make some greedy son of a bitch a little more profit by committing economic treason. After decades of this the pain adds up and people have had enough. It is exactly the same dynamic that Trump has tapped into for the presidential campaign. People want to work. They want their jobs to be a priority of their government. Before globalization that was the case.

    Germany is the strongest economic power in europe followed by the UK, France and Italy. What is forbidding about that? Germany has already been hit hard by the sanctions placed on Russia since considerable trade takes place between the two countries. The UK remains a member of NATO so I can’t see Putin cracking much of a smile.

    How have we lost our “strongest ally in the european market”? The UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world. Nothing will change between the US and the EU because of the Brexit.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by bnw.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #47115
    waterfield
    Participant

    What I don’t get is the age difference in the vote-if in fact this was in part a racist fueled vote. By far the older generation in Britain-from what the polls show-voted to stay while the younger vote voted to leave. I would have thought the opposite would be the case if racism was behind the vote.

    I believe you have that backwards. The polls I saw leading up to the vote showed that each age group progressively became more inclined to Leave the older the group was. And one of my Brit friends yesterday was complaining that it appeared young people weren’t turning out to vote (and he was a strong Remain).

    My brain was twisted. Aging is not for fools.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by waterfield.
    #47131
    waterfield
    Participant

    he Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

    “Nationalism” can be the foundation for “racism”. Just another way to excuse it. 87% of Britain’s population is white. Immigration fears was in large part the fuel that drove brexit. My own definition of racism includes the “I don’t like you because you’re different than I am”. Britain has a long hx of this type of thinking. My wife is Irish. My neighbor is from England and (jokingly) refers to her as the “mick” across the street. If he was serious I would call that a racist remark.

    The push back from globalization can also be said to be racist based. The uneducated older working class saw their jobs being taken by those “different”-hence the move toward “nationalism”.

    The EU was born from two world wars and provided a sense of economic security among a fractured Europe. Now Germany will once again become the strongest economic power in Europe a forbidding thought to those who recall the past. Putin could not be more happy today.

    A personal anecdote: My closest friend owns a manufacturing company in the sports business. A huge market for his equipment is in Europe and the far east. He is rightfully concerned that with the loss of our strongest ally in the European market he will be unable to continue to access those markets with the same economic freedom as before. And yet he is still a strong supporter of Trump who champions brexit. Go figure.

    I think you go out of your way to find racism. It is what democrats are prone to do because within the party they are rewarded for it. The UK voted for independence. That isn’t racism. Why is it that people of color can take pride in their culture even when they have fled from their country to a country with a completely different culture yet caucasians are never afforded the same right? The EU was dumping immigrants and criminals into the UK. The people realized that their vote didn’t matter since their government was subservient to Brussels. After 40 years they said enough. It was a voluntary union from the start.

    Mick is a racist remark? I don’t get that at all. Polock, Dago, Wop, Kraut are not racist either. Irish, English, Polish, Italian, German are all predominantly caucasian so how can that be racist? Now spic or spear chucker sure that is racist since that isn’t about a specific nationality. Just like cracker is racist. I grew up in St. Louis and we used Mick, polock, dago, wop, kraut and others all the time and there wasn’t a chip on anyones shoulder.

    I disagree that opposition to globalization is based upon racism. That is so insulting, so out of touch. For those who have been harmed by their jobs being sent overseas or over the border it is about the strain on their family, community, and region for no other reason than to make some greedy son of a bitch a little more profit by committing economic treason. After decades of this the pain adds up and people have had enough. It is exactly the same dynamic that Trump has tapped into for the presidential campaign. People want to work. They want their jobs to be a priority of their government. Before globalization that was the case.

    Germany is the strongest economic power in europe followed by the UK, France and Italy. What is forbidding about that? Germany has already been hit hard by the sanctions placed on Russia since considerable trade takes place between the two countries. The UK remains a member of NATO so I can’t see Putin cracking much of a smile.

    How have we lost our “strongest ally in the european market”? The UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world. Nothing will change between the US and the EU because of the Brexit.

    My definition of “racism” is mine alone. IMO calling someone a “mick” is a characterization solely based on a person’s race. To me that’s racist regardless of whether or not it is meant disparagingly. Others differ and require a nefarious intent.

    I understand the fears and anxiety that you listed as major factors in brexit. Nevertheless, I have strong concerns over the spread of “nationalism” across Europe that this could portend as well as in this country.

    #47132
    bnw
    Blocked

    he Brexit vote wasn’t racism. It was nationalism.

    “Nationalism” can be the foundation for “racism”. Just another way to excuse it. 87% of Britain’s population is white. Immigration fears was in large part the fuel that drove brexit. My own definition of racism includes the “I don’t like you because you’re different than I am”. Britain has a long hx of this type of thinking. My wife is Irish. My neighbor is from England and (jokingly) refers to her as the “mick” across the street. If he was serious I would call that a racist remark.

    The push back from globalization can also be said to be racist based. The uneducated older working class saw their jobs being taken by those “different”-hence the move toward “nationalism”.

    The EU was born from two world wars and provided a sense of economic security among a fractured Europe. Now Germany will once again become the strongest economic power in Europe a forbidding thought to those who recall the past. Putin could not be more happy today.

    A personal anecdote: My closest friend owns a manufacturing company in the sports business. A huge market for his equipment is in Europe and the far east. He is rightfully concerned that with the loss of our strongest ally in the European market he will be unable to continue to access those markets with the same economic freedom as before. And yet he is still a strong supporter of Trump who champions brexit. Go figure.

    I think you go out of your way to find racism. It is what democrats are prone to do because within the party they are rewarded for it. The UK voted for independence. That isn’t racism. Why is it that people of color can take pride in their culture even when they have fled from their country to a country with a completely different culture yet caucasians are never afforded the same right? The EU was dumping immigrants and criminals into the UK. The people realized that their vote didn’t matter since their government was subservient to Brussels. After 40 years they said enough. It was a voluntary union from the start.

    Mick is a racist remark? I don’t get that at all. Polock, Dago, Wop, Kraut are not racist either. Irish, English, Polish, Italian, German are all predominantly caucasian so how can that be racist? Now spic or spear chucker sure that is racist since that isn’t about a specific nationality. Just like cracker is racist. I grew up in St. Louis and we used Mick, polock, dago, wop, kraut and others all the time and there wasn’t a chip on anyones shoulder.

    I disagree that opposition to globalization is based upon racism. That is so insulting, so out of touch. For those who have been harmed by their jobs being sent overseas or over the border it is about the strain on their family, community, and region for no other reason than to make some greedy son of a bitch a little more profit by committing economic treason. After decades of this the pain adds up and people have had enough. It is exactly the same dynamic that Trump has tapped into for the presidential campaign. People want to work. They want their jobs to be a priority of their government. Before globalization that was the case.

    Germany is the strongest economic power in europe followed by the UK, France and Italy. What is forbidding about that? Germany has already been hit hard by the sanctions placed on Russia since considerable trade takes place between the two countries. The UK remains a member of NATO so I can’t see Putin cracking much of a smile.

    How have we lost our “strongest ally in the european market”? The UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world. Nothing will change between the US and the EU because of the Brexit.

    My definition of “racism” is mine alone. IMO calling someone a “mick” is a characterization solely based on a person’s race. To me that’s racist regardless of whether or not it is meant disparagingly. Others differ and require a nefarious intent.

    I understand the fears and anxiety that you listed as major factors in brexit. Nevertheless, I have strong concerns over the spread of “nationalism” across Europe that this could portend as well as in this country.

    Irish isn’t a race. It is a nationality and remains so whether Mick is used disparagingly or not.

    The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.

    Sprinkles are for winners.

    #47141
    waterfield
    Participant

    Depends on who is defining what “race” is. Here is an explanation of the difference between race and ethnicity-based on biology.

    http://www.livescience.com/33903-difference-race-ethnicity.html

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