If Rams' offense doesn't improve, it won't be for lack of trying

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June 3, 2015 at 5:46 am #25725

Agamemnon
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http://www.foxsports.com/midwest/story/if-st-louis-rams-offense-doesn-t-improve-it-won-t-be-for-lack-of-trying-060215
If Rams’ offense doesn’t improve, it won’t be for lack of trying
Elisabeth Meinecke
FOX Sports Midwest

JUN 02, 2015 1:50p ET

Quarterback Nick Foles and running back Todd Gurley are the two most prominent offseason additions to the Rams’ offense.

ST. LOUIS — At some point, this had to change.

At the beginning of this offseason, the St. Louis Rams looked in danger of becoming three-peat champs as the bottom dwellers of a very tough NFC West division. With the Seattle and San Francisco defenses finishing top five in the league over the past two years, it’s no place for a weak offense, which is exactly what the Rams had. Their offensive statistics ranged from poor to very bad, some of it through circumstances out of their control — when your intended franchise-changing quarterback logs a total of seven games out of 32 due to injury, things probably won’t go according to plan.

So, this offseason, the Rams made a different one.

Some of it seemed by chance; they found themselves looking for an offensive coordinator after Brian Schottenheimer left, and their subsequent decision to promote from within left the team with a domino effect that resulted in several key staff changes. Other movement, however, appeared more calculated — from the quarterback position to the overhaul of the offensive line.

The most recent change was the addition of former NFL quarterback Jeff Garcia to the coaching staff, where he’ll work as an offensive assistant. He had interviewed for the quarterbacks coach job earlier this year after it was vacated by Frank Cignetti’s promotion to offensive coordinator, but lost out to Chris Weinke. Rams coach Jeff Fisher was impressed enough, however, that he kept Garcia around.

“I just felt like Jeff was going to be an outstanding coach. He just has that ‘it’ factor,” Fisher says. “He’s working with the receivers right now. He’s helping Coach Sherman with the receivers.”

Garcia’s hiring is one of at least six major moves the Rams have made on that side of the ball since their season ended. In addition to Cignetti, Weinke and Garcia on the coaching side, the Rams traded starting quarterbacks with Philadelphia, drafted four offensive linemen in the second through sixth rounds of the 2015 NFL Draft, and used their first pick on game-changing running back Todd Gurley, who’s rehabbing his ACL. If there seems to be a motto for the team headed into the 2015 season, it’s go big or go home — literally on the go big part, considering they drafted 1,272 pounds of offensive linemen this spring.

Of all the player moves, the Sam Bradford-for-Nick Foles swap at quarterback might provide the most immediate impact, since there’s no guarantee when Gurley will step on the field. Fisher credits the quarterbacks who have stepped in during Bradford’s injury-plagued seasons (there have been plenty, both seasons and quarterbacks), but appears excited the Foles solution actually has long-term potential.

“I think we’ve settled into ‘the guy,'” Fisher says. “We have somebody that can be special at the position, so it’s exciting for us to know that I’ve got an offense that will be built around his talent level.”

If Foles can return to his 2013 form, where he had a 119.2 quarterback rating over 13 games, and Gurley is able to join the team in the backfield, the Rams will be spoiled for choice in their offensive options — especially if their first-round pick from two years ago, wide receiver Tavon Austin, can find his groove.

Then again, it’s hard to argue the team’s biggest moves this offseason were skill players, considering the state of the offensive line before the draft at April’s end. They basically had a left tackle and a left guard, and a likely starting center with only four games of NFL experience. Credit Fisher and general manager Les Snead for addressing the problem in the draft, though it’s scary it ever got that bad to begin with. They drafted several promising linemen, including a second-rounder, Rob Havenstein, and third-rounder Jamon Brown, both of whom could start this season.

“We felt if we got Todd, then we could do what I’ve been wanting to do since we got here, and that is just go get offensive linemen,” Fisher says. “I wanted to build the offensive line (from the beginning). You build your team inside out. And we wanted to build, but there were too many other holes. There were too many other needs. And so we filled those.”

Now, if the Rams have finally fixed that line, it could go a long way toward solving plenty of their interwoven problems — like the fact that their quarterbacks can’t stay healthy (opposing teams registered 93 hits on them last year, and the line allowed the eighth-most sacks in the league), and that their run game was 20th in the league in total yards.

Or if the problems aren’t fixed, whether by rookie learning curves or misjudged potential, and the Rams’ offense flames out again this year, at least they’ll have gone down swinging. Already with a defense that could give even Napoleon nightmares, they’ve at least put together a roster on the other side of the ball that, if nothing else, gives them a breather after ranking 25th last year in time of possession per game.

“We looked at last year, immediately after the season, and felt like, ‘OK, this is what we need to do,'” Fisher says.

Agamemnon

June 3, 2015 at 6:55 am #25727

wv
Participant

” Fisher says. “I wanted to build the offensive line (from the beginning).
You build your team inside out.
And we wanted to build, but there were too many other holes.
There were too many other needs. And so we filled those.”

Lots of holes, youth, and key injuries (Jake, Wells, Sam)

But i feel good about this team now.
I think they are ready to roll.

w
v

June 3, 2015 at 9:50 am #25730

nittany ram
Moderator

wv wrote:

” Fisher says. “I wanted to build the offensive line (from the beginning).
You build your team inside out.
And we wanted to build, but there were too many other holes.
There were too many other needs. And so we filled those.”

Lots of holes, youth, and key injuries (Jake, Wells, Sam)

But i feel good about this team now.
I think they are ready to roll.

w
v

Does the o-line not give you pause? Cuz it gives me pause. I got pause comin’ out the ying yang. That’s how much pause I got.

The one proven player on the o-line is as fragile as a butterfly’s wings. The others are all question marks. If the o-line comes together then this team could be ready to contend but right now that looks like a big ‘if’.

June 3, 2015 at 10:38 am #25731

zn
Moderator

Agamemnon wrote:

n we could do what I’ve been wanting to do since we got here, and that is just go get offensive linemen,” Fisher says. “I wanted to build the offensive line (from the beginning). You build your team inside out. And we wanted to build,

Actually there’s a Snead interview from 2012 where he talks about the OL. I know that interview cause I kept re-posting it. In it, he basically says, on OL what we will do is go with unheralded parts and rely on a great OL coach to make it an effective line. In 2012 in fact they picked up Turner, Richardson, Hunter, Ojinakka, Wells, Barksdale, S.Smith, Williams, and Nsekhe. 4 of those were picked up after the season started (Barksdale, Smith, Wms, Nsekhe). They inherited Dahl and Saffold. They were supposed to inherit J.Smith and coach him up but his issues were mental–I think the 2011 injuries spooked him and subtracted whatever will to play he had (remember he was carted off in 2011 with a severe neck injury). They traded J.Smith for Hunter. They also drafted Watkins but he was never ready, got hurt, and then went to eating disorder-ville. If the list above, only Nsekhe didn’t play, though Ojinakka was so awful they cut him.

Interestingly, some of those guys are still bouncing around and getting signed, including Barksdale, Wms, and S.Smith.

Injuries as we know hampered them for at least half the season. By the time of the bye, these players had started and/or played as replacements: Saffold Turner Wells Dahl Richardson Watkins Ojinakka Barksdale Smith Wms. That’s 10 players and 4 different OL combinations in 8 games.

So the question is, based on the Snead interview, did they just not draft young OL cause of holes elsewhere, or, did they deliberately set out instead to do what Snead said—use Boudreau to fashion an effective OL out of hand-me-downs? Or was the latter just the best face they could put on the former?

Another part of this…in terms of drafting OL, 2012 was a weak draft. Looking at the 2nd round on down, 32 linemen were drafted that year. Of those, about 4-5 have become solid starters, some have been spot players (sometimes with injuries hampering them), and the rest–about 20–either haven’t done anything or are done. So in terms of finding solid starters, it’s about 15-16%. (The ones who came solidly through as starters are Glenn, Mitchell Schwartz, Osemele, Beachum, Brooks, and Troutman).

Anyway. Fisher’s statement is both kind of true…and kind of a disingenuous spin. They made do with what they could get, but then also kept that as a policy (acquire vets not rookies) until 2014.

June 3, 2015 at 12:40 pm #25732

Agamemnon
Participant

It is hard to say how much is true and how much is spin. I was always looking for offensive linemen. I want the offensive line to be the strongest unit. But, until last year, I couldn’t find any fault with how they drafted or spent money on the offensive line. If they had not traded up for Austion, they could have gotten a good guard in that draft. That is the only thing I wish they had done differently.

Last year and this, the draft fell for them to get offensive linemen and they did that. They tried to keep Barksdale and they had drafted Jones before. Even this year they drafted a RB first. I would have drafted Erving, but taking Gurley is a good gamble. imo

This year there was value in the draft that fit what Fisher wants on the Oline. And they took advantage of that. Me, I still want to add some high quality players in next years draft. Guys like Collins and Erving or another true LT prospect. But, the value will have to be there compared to other positions. They did get some continuity on the Oline as a result of the draft. That is very good and it is very had to do if you don’t do it through the draft. imo

Agamemnon

June 3, 2015 at 12:58 pm #25739

Herzog
Participant

Anyway. Fisher’s statement is both kind of true…and kind of a disingenuous spin. They made do with what they could get, but then also kept that as a policy (acquire vets not rookies) until 2014.

Yeah, I agree. Very disingenuous. If you build your team from the inside out, than it doesn’t matter how many other holes there are, you address that first, otherwise, it’s not inside out, is it?

June 3, 2015 at 1:11 pm #25741

zn
Moderator

Herzog wrote:

Anyway. Fisher’s statement is both kind of true…and kind of a disingenuous spin. They made do with what they could get, but then also kept that as a policy (acquire vets not rookies) until 2014.

Yeah, I agree. Very disingenuous. If you build your team from the inside out, than it doesn’t matter how many other holes there are, you address that first, otherwise, it’s not inside out, is it?

You and I kind of disagree on what’s disingenuous here.

I don’t think he was disingenuous about building a line. To me he DID build a line. But I think his 2015 statement is disingenuous about having always wanted to do it through the draft.

What he did instead was build it through free agency.

And it worked, too. The 2013 OL was rated 13th in the league by PFF, and IMO for good reason.

What killed that OL was injuries. Long getting, out of the blue, 2 ACLs; Wells going from being a healthy player all his career to getting a long series of injuries and bizarre infections.

Their OL, from what I saw, played well from the 2nd half of 2012 through most of 2013. Not stellar, but well. Certainly well enough.

So the issue is not, do you build the OL. It’s HOW you do it. And in fact, using free agency is a legit approach to OL building. For example, the 2013 top-rated OL at PFF was Philadelphia’s, and it includes 2 key free agents. So, that’s doable.

So when I say he was disingenuous, I mean the idea that he always wanted to build OLs by drafting. Actually they did fine using free agency in 2012-3…what killed that OL was the 2014 injuries.

.

June 3, 2015 at 2:17 pm #25743

wv
Participant

nittany ram wrote:

Does the o-line not give you pause? Cuz it gives me pause. I got pause comin’ out the ying yang. That’s how much pause I got.

The one proven player on the o-line is as fragile as a butterfly’s wings. The others are all question marks. If the o-line comes together then this team could be ready to contend but right now that looks like a big ‘if’.

Not really. I’m tired of the “vets-coming-off-injury” approach.

I like the idea of an infusion of young, healthy, nasty, conrad-doblers.

w
v

June 3, 2015 at 2:45 pm #25746

Zooey
Moderator

wv wrote:

Not really. I’m tired of the “vets-coming-off-injury” approach.

I like the idea of an infusion of young, healthy, nasty, conrad-doblers.

w
v

\

Oh, we ALL like that idea, wv.

We are all in LOVE with that idea.

The thing is…as the honorable delegate from New Vermontavania has stated…many of us are not 100% confident that that is what the Rams have.

That’s all.

June 3, 2015 at 4:03 pm #25748

nittany ram
Moderator

Zooey wrote:

Oh, we ALL like that idea, wv.

We are all in LOVE with that idea.

The thing is…as the honorable delegate from New Vermontavania has stated…many of us are not 100% confident that that is what the Rams have.

That’s all.

Exactly.

For all we know, the Rams have received an infusion of Mike Schads, Alex Barrons and Justin Smiths.

I don’t think that’s what the Rams got. I like their draft and the o-linemen they picked up.

But then again, when they drafted Justin Smith I didn’t think his name would eventually be used as a pejorative as it was just two sentences ago, either.

June 3, 2015 at 4:29 pm #25749

Herzog
Participant

nittany ram wrote:

Zooey wrote:

Oh, we ALL like that idea, wv.

We are all in LOVE with that idea.

The thing is…as the honorable delegate from New Vermontavania has stated…many of us are not 100% confident that that is what the Rams have.

That’s all.

Exactly.

For all we know, the Rams have received an infusion of Mike Schads, Alex Barrons and Justin Smiths.

I don’t think that’s what the Rams got. I like their draft and the o-linemen they picked up.

But then again, when they drafted Justin Smith I didn’t think his name would eventually be used as a pejorative as it was just two sentences ago, either.

Also, there’s the issue of how long will it take for them to develop.

June 3, 2015 at 4:36 pm #25750

zn
Moderator

nittany ram wrote:

For all we know, the Rams have received an infusion of Mike Schads, Alex Barrons and Justin Smiths.

I don’t think that’s what the Rams got. I like their draft and the o-linemen they picked up.

But then again, when they drafted Justin Smith I didn’t think his name would eventually be used as a pejorative as it was just two sentences ago, either.

Here’s one thing though. These guys, the rookies from the 2014 “all OL” draft, have different profiles from ole Jason.

No one can promise anything, and human endeavor of all kinds (including NFL drafts) are as leaves blown on the heavy and twisting winds of fate…

BUT…

….there are little hints that these guys aint him.

Like for example, it was hard to project Smith because he played in a spread.

For Havenstein, in contrast, a “spread” is just a term for a buffet dinner.

Assuming he stays with the PG rated version of the word.

…

June 3, 2015 at 6:32 pm #25764
InvaderRam
Moderator
Agamemnon wrote:

It is hard to say how much is true and how much is spin. I was always looking for offensive linemen. I want the offensive line to be the strongest unit. But, until last year, I couldn’t find any fault with how they drafted or spent money on the offensive line. If they had not traded up for Austion, they could have gotten a good guard in that draft. That is the only thing I wish they had done differently.

Last year and this, the draft fell for them to get offensive linemen and they did that. They tried to keep Barksdale and they had drafted Jones before. Even this year they drafted a RB first. I would have drafted Erving, but taking Gurley is a good gamble.

This year there was value in the draft that fit what Fisher wants on the Oline. And they took advantage of that. Me, I still want to add some high quality players in next years draft. Guys like Collins and Erving or another true LT prospect. But, the value will have to be there compared to other positions. They did get some continuity on the Oline as a result of the draft. That is very good and it is very had to do if you don’t do it through the draft. imo</span>

i completely agree, ag. you and i are on the same wavelength. be afraid! ha!

i think they had plans to draft offensive linemen at various times in the past several drafts. off the top of my head, they were interested in drafting warford. they were also in line to draft zack martin. and i know that at least in the case of martin, the only reason they didn’t draft him was the fact that donald fell down to their spot. and i can hardly blame them for drafting him over martin.

it’s all how the drafts unfolded. so i don’t necessarily know how disingenuous fisher is being.

i do disagree on one small point. i would have drafted gurley over erving. although it would have been a very tough decision.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by InvaderRam.
June 3, 2015 at 6:41 pm #25767

Agamemnon
Participant

InvaderRam wrote:

i completely agree, ag. you and i are on the same wavelength. be afraid! ha!

i think they had plans to draft offensive linemen at various times in the past several drafts. off the top of my head, they were interested in drafting warford. they were also in line to draft zack martin. and i know that at least in the case of martin, the only reason they didn’t draft him was the fact that donald fell down to their spot. and i can hardly blame them for drafting him over martin.

it’s all how the drafts unfolded. so i don’t necessarily know how disingenuous fisher is being.

i do disagree on one small point. i would have drafted gurley over erving. although it would have been a very tough decision.

You also wanted the Glenn person, right?

Agamemnon

June 3, 2015 at 6:50 pm #25769

InvaderRam
Moderator

you mean cordy glenn? i was a big fan of glenn. i was hoping they’d draft him in the second round, but they drafted quick instead.

June 3, 2015 at 8:05 pm #25770

wv
Participant

Zooey wrote:

wv wrote:

Not really. I’m tired of the “vets-coming-off-injury” approach.

I like the idea of an infusion of young, healthy, nasty, conrad-doblers.

w
v

\

Oh, we ALL like that idea, wv.

We are all in LOVE with that idea.

The thing is…as the honorable delegate from New Vermontavania has stated…many of us are not 100% confident that that is what the Rams have.

That’s all.

Well, if the honorable delegate from Pennsylmontia
doesn’t like the Rams OLine,
he can just go watch the North Korean’s OLine.

w
v

June 3, 2015 at 10:12 pm #25793

NERam
Participant

wv wrote:

Well, if the honorable delegate from Pennsylmontia
doesn’t like the Rams OLine,
he can just go watch the North Korean’s OLine.

w
v

I’ve heard that they are quite competitive over there. Miss a block and you are shot with anti-aircraft guns.

June 3, 2015 at 10:32 pm #25794

zn
Moderator

NERam wrote:

he can just go watch the North Korean’s OLine.

w
v

I’ve heard that they are quite competitive over there. Miss a block and you are shot with anti-aircraft guns.

See, that’s just different mindsets.

Me, that kind of thing? Would be a strong motive to not play. Or, if forced, to major in anti-aircraft gunnery.

June 3, 2015 at 10:45 pm #25797

NERam
Participant

zn wrote:

NERam wrote:

he can just go watch the North Korean’s OLine.

w
v

I’ve heard that they are quite competitive over there. Miss a block and you are shot with anti-aircraft guns.

See, that’s just different mindsets.

Me, that kind of thing? Would be a strong motive to not play. Or, if forced, to major in anti-aircraft gunnery.

Prolly a good thing that John St. Claire never made it to the NKFL…

June 3, 2015 at 10:51 pm #25798

InvaderRam
Moderator

wow. they must go through a lot of players…

June 4, 2015 at 12:54 am #25803

zn
Moderator

zn wrote:

Another part of this…in terms of drafting OL, 2012 was a weak draft. Looking at the 2nd round on down, 32 linemen were drafted that year. Of those, about 4-5 have become solid starters, some have been spot players (sometimes with injuries hampering them), and the rest–about 20–either haven’t done anything or are done. So in terms of finding solid starters, it’s about 15-16%. (The ones who came solidly through as starters are Glenn, Mitchell Schwartz, Osemele, Beachum, Brooks, and Troutman).

So far, if you count starters and developmental guys who have played some, it;s really around 7. That’s 22%. According to my rough but handy prior calculations on hit rates drafting OL, the norm for rounds 2-7 is around 32%

June 4, 2015 at 6:59 am #25814

Agamemnon
Participant

Snead, “The average starting LT gets drafted somewhere in the 2cd round.”…. “But, when you break it down from the guard to the center to the RT. You know, the average round that starters are drafted in is close to the 4th.”

The latest from Snead. The quote is 2 minutes in.

Agamemnon
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