Recent Forum Topics › Forums › The Rams Huddle › I just don't see it.
- This topic has 41 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 2 months ago by Hram.
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September 5, 2015 at 2:34 pm #29873rflParticipant
Look. We all bring our personalities to the table here, on the brink of like the 11th year of hoping for relevance for a lost franchise.
I’m obviously a pessimist, and I know many of you look for reasons for hope. Good on ya, mates.
But I see zero evidence of a team ready to play SEA next week or to be genuinely competitive.
I see talent out there. But the talent adds up to nothing. We have the talent to burn, cut or trade on the DL, and not a single bleeding sack in another lost P/S. And the continuing inability to contain ANYONE’S running game? With all that DL talent?
As for the offense … well … whatever …
I’ll be shocked if these guys show much of anything for a month at least. Until after the season is lost and the team has reached a comfort level of utter irrelevance.
I can’t imagine this team flipping the switch in time for the actual season. They haven’t done it yet under Fisher, and ALL the signs are there of the same, continuing patterns of porous instability. ALL THE EVIDENCE points to another lost season. ALL of it.
I wish you guys well with your reasons for hope. But as far as I can tell, hope in this case requires Blind Faith.
On the upside, that was a pretty damn good band! You know, we ought to adopt “Had to Cry Today” as our Ram Fan theme song. Sounds about right.
- This topic was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by rfl.
By virtue of the absurd ...
September 5, 2015 at 2:41 pm #29875znModeratorSeptember 5, 2015 at 2:55 pm #29876InvaderRamModeratori agree with a lot of that. it might even take the first 8 games. i do think the defense still has a chance to show greatness, but this offense is going to be painful to watch for quite awhile.
September 5, 2015 at 3:44 pm #29884PA RamParticipantI think the defense will be ready for Seattle.
I don’t see any way the offensive line is ready. They will need some Givens or Tavon big plays and a great defensive effort.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
September 5, 2015 at 5:11 pm #29889AgamemnonParticipantSeptember 5, 2015 at 5:15 pm #29892wvParticipantI’m not sure what the evidence shows. I just can’t tell.
There’s a kaleidoscope of facts and circumstances
and unknowns and partial-knowns and potentials
and experience and youth.So, i dunno much. But i ‘do’ know
for three years they’ve been in that seven win range.
And now they have a better QB than they’ve had the last
two years, and some new talent, and an essentially healthy
team.And there’s the fact that Fisher has a history of building
teams that are mediocre for years and then blossom into contenders.And then there’s the fact that it just doesnt take that much
to make the playoffs these days. A couple wins over .500 and
you are there. If a .500 team wins a couple more close games
they go from eight wins to 10-6.I dunno. To me the ‘evidence’ this year, so far,
is just all over the place. But when i think about
the evidence this year, coupled with what I know about
the past….well, I’m just more optimistic than you, RFL.At any rate,
A) Its just football, and
B) I’m excited about the season. I just am.w
vSeptember 5, 2015 at 5:33 pm #29899— X —ParticipantThe more man meditates upon good thoughts, the better will be his world & the world at large. -Confucius
— Ancient Proverbs (@AncientProverbs) January 13, 2014
You have to be odd, to be number one.
-- Dr SeussSeptember 5, 2015 at 6:07 pm #29906InvaderRamModeratorit’s an exciting season for sure. as it always is. but this oline seems to be total shit…
i think if the oline can gel and gurley comes back legit, the rams can make a run in the second half. but will it be too late by then?
September 5, 2015 at 6:15 pm #29909znModeratorbut this oline seems to be total shit…
I don’t agree. It’s not t.s. … IMO it’s raw and will have its moments. The upside promises a line that is not only solid, but 2 deep at back-up tackle, which is just plain rare.
.
September 5, 2015 at 6:17 pm #29910InvaderRamModeratorbut this oline seems to be total shit…
I don’t agree. It’s not t.s. … IMO it’s raw and will have its moments. The upside promises a line that is not only solid, but 2 deep at back-up tackle, which is just plain rare.
.
well. a poor attempt at humor. i mean i obviously think it isn’t total shit as i do believe there’s a chance that it could come together mid-season. meaning i think there’s actual talent there.
September 5, 2015 at 10:00 pm #29945CalParticipantI was disappointed and critical of this team after the Titans fiasco, but I think the team has looked good the last couple of weeks.
I don’t get all the criticism on the net of the offensive line. Jamon Brown has looked good at guard to me. This should be the best pair of starting guards the Rams have had since the GSOT. Anybody remember Ojinaka from Fisher’s first year? I think he was out of football by game 8 of that season!Havenstein has also looked fine to me. He’s smart and big and does a lot of little things that can make the running game and screen game go. The only negative on the o-line for me has been GRob. But he looks like an athlete out there so I still have hope he can learn the position.
And then there’s Tavon! It looks like he can actually be a productive receiver. (I consider the 20 yard catch against the Colts as part of the evidence that Tavon can play out wide even tho that play was wiped by OPI.)
I’m excited for game 1. As long as Tre can play, I’m looking forward to a close game against Seattle. Mason looks like a good runner while Benny is just ok.
September 6, 2015 at 1:48 am #29950znModeratorfrom off the net
===
Contrarian
My dad, the life-long 49er fan, called to say he just got his SI in the mail. Said the same guy that predicted Pats over Hawks in Super Bowl last year has Rams going 11-5 this year. Then losing to Seattle in the Wild Card round. I’ve heard worse…
September 6, 2015 at 10:39 am #29970laramParticipantNo you were right the first time Invader.
Its a total shit.
Laram
September 6, 2015 at 12:02 pm #29973rflParticipantA possible way to think.
I mean, you don’t have to do this. It’s a bleak thought experiment. But, you might think about it.
Think about how other teams have looked against us this P/S. Try to take off your Ram fan lenses and just ask, “Which teams looked better prepared, more competitive? Which teams looked as if they might do something this year. Which defenses looked tough? Which offenses looked hard to stop?”
Do that honestly and I doubt you’ll conclude that the Rams EVER looked better than their opponents through 4 games.
Remember–ALL NFL TEAMS have talent. A few moments and flashes of talent crop up for every team.
Competitiveness is never about that. It’s about playing tough football.
Who played tougher football this P/S? Us or our opponents?
Or, don’t think about it. It ain’t no fun.
By virtue of the absurd ...
September 6, 2015 at 12:29 pm #29976rflParticipantWV my friend, I cheer your perseverance and willingness to get excited about a team that fails its fans year after year. You are more optimistic than I and that’s cool.
But, there’s something in me that stubbornly wants to distinguish between manifestation and moonshine. You can skip the following if you wish. I don’t want to ruin your optimism and hopes. But, I am going to heartlessly respond to some of your individual points. I’ll only challenge one as a statement. But I’ll offer my sense of the context.
I’m not sure what the evidence shows. I just can’t tell. There’s a kaleidoscope of facts and circumstances
and unknowns and partial-knowns and potentials and experience and youth.I’ll simply say that I take this as an acknowledgement that 4 P/S games produced no actual, demonstrable evidence of an excellent team emerging.
And I’ll note that “circumstances and unknowns and partial-knowns and potentials and experience and youth” are not in any meaningful sense evidence. Potential and youth fail more often than not in the NFL.
I ‘do’ know for three years they’ve been in that seven win range. And now they have a better QB than they’ve had the last two years, and some new talent, and an essentially healthy team.
And there’s the fact that Fisher has a history of building teams that are mediocre for years and then blossom into contenders.
I gather the point here is that they’ve shown promise for 3 years over and against injuries, and now they’re healthy, so we ought to expect improvement. I’ll just say here that fans of all bad teams reason like this every year and are generally bitterly disappointed. I’ll also note that we were losing with a healthy Bradford 2 years ago before he was hurt, and that a healthy Foles is almost certainly a step down from a healthy Bradford.
As for Fisher’s history, well, I don’t see that that gets one very far. Plenty of successful NFL coaches have flamed out in return engagements. Historical arguments are in general pretty dicey.
And then there’s the fact that it just doesn’t take that much to make the playoffs these days. A couple wins over .500 and you are there. If a .500 team wins a couple more close games they go from eight wins to 10-6.
I mean, I’m just not sure what to say. Do you really mean to say that it doesn’t take much to get to the playoffs in the NFL?
A couple of wins over .500 in the NFL is not easy to do. It just isn’t. Sure, you can point to a narrow margin of victory and loss in a lot of our games. But that’s the nature of the NFL. Developing a team that can maintain the discipline to command those narrow margins of victory is very, very hard. To turn what we have seen for 3 years into a 10 win outfit is a HUGE step up. I know Ram fans like to believe it isn’t true.
Just think how this team has performed in EVERY GAME of the last 3 years when they had an opportunity to step up into a winning record or actual contention. Every single time they have tanked. They have NEVER looked good in games unless they have been well into a losing record and in the comfort zone of irrelevance. That right there is a fact one might do well to consider.
I dunno. To me the ‘evidence’ this year, so far, is just all over the place.
Obviously, we draw different conclusions. Part of it is because we apply the term “evidence” differently. Part of it is perhaps a personality difference. Who knows?
I am just convinced that the step from what this team demonstrably IS right now and what optimistic Ram fans are hoping for is pretty damn high.
Of course, I will be delighted if they take that step.
But I am becoming pretty disgruntled, and if they don’t, I ain’t gonna care much about them.
Personally, I figure this year has long since been conceded by the Ram FO as a throw-away, lame duck year. I think the decision to go with a ridiculously young OL with mid and low-round talent demonstrates that. It’s the 1st year in So Cal that it will care about.
By virtue of the absurd ...
September 6, 2015 at 12:32 pm #29977bnwBlockedI trust Fisher.
- This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by bnw.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
September 6, 2015 at 12:53 pm #29980rflParticipantI trust Fisher.
LOL. Can’t tell if this is snark or not.
Can’t imagine the slightest reason for trusting Fisher. He’s given us none over 3 years and 1 P/S.
But, trust is a funny thing. Maybe you mean it. Good on ya, mate, and may your trust be rewarded.
By virtue of the absurd ...
September 6, 2015 at 12:57 pm #29981znModeratorI trust Fisher.
LOL. Can’t tell if this is snark or not.
Can’t imagine the slightest reason for trusting Fisher. He’s given us none over 3 years and 1 P/S.
But, trust is a funny thing. Maybe you mean it. Good on ya, mate, and may your trust be rewarded.
I can imagine all sorts of reasons for trusting him. In fact I think they come out strong in the 1st 2 games.
There are going to be different opinions on this. I know you’re deep in yours but some of us are deep in ours.
September 6, 2015 at 1:18 pm #29982rflParticipantThere are going to be different opinions on this. I know you’re deep in yours but some of us are deep in ours.
I’m just going to respond to this a bit.
I am not “deep in” some sort of condemnation of Fisher as such.
And I watched the P/S this year hoping to see evidence of improvement. I’m a Ram fan, after all.
I didn’t see anything but mediocrity and ill discipline. What I saw fit very well with a 3+ year track record he has coaching my team. It always looks the same, game after game, season after season. And it is losing, undisciplined, uncompetitive football. That’s what he coaches, at least in StL.
What I am “deep into” is to be honest about the track record he has laid down. Because I think a track record that consistent matters.
So, sure, there are many opinions. But I want to make it clear. I am not calling for Fisher’s head or saying he has no virtues as a coach. I am not hoping for his or the team’s failure.
I am saying that his teams keep doing the same thing, over and over, and the pattern never changes unless they are comfortably ensconced in a losing record.
Now, there are indeed different ways to “see” this team.
But I have noticed that those who “see it” differently offer lots of theories and explanations without actually having much direct evidence to point to. But that, of course, is indeed my viewpoint.
By virtue of the absurd ...
September 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm #29983ZooeyModeratorPersonally, I figure this year has long since been conceded by the Ram FO as a throw-away, lame duck year. I think the decision to go with a ridiculously young OL with mid and low-round talent demonstrates that. It’s the 1st year in So Cal that it will care about.
I don’t think that is true. I don’t think they have conceded the year, and I don’t think their personnel decisions are linked to the possible move to LA in any way. I think they didn’t think they had the guys on the roster to fix the OL, with the exception of Barksdale (who obviously priced himself out of the picture), and they didn’t like anybody they saw in FA. The best way to fix the most desperate unit was through the draft, and as it happens, the aggressive, “attitude” players Fisher favors are available in the mid-rounds and late rounds. Yeah, it makes for a young line that is going to have rough days, but the alternative was some over-priced guys that don’t have the upside (Wisniewski, anyone?), don’t have the aggressiveness, and would also have rough days. What they did made sense, even though it means inflaming the impatience of fans who have borne various shades of awfulness and mediocrity for more than a decade. But I think the rebuilt line is/was their best shot at winning THIS year, as well as a long-term rebuild.
I would have LOVED to see them add a Timmerman, or some vet capable of nailing down a position on this young, young line. But without a specific name of a guy, this kind of armchair GMing drives me crazy. “They should have got somebody to play X really well!”
Great. Who?
I mean…unless you can drape out a better plan, all you’re doing, as far as I’m concerned, is venting. (And that isn’t directed at you personally, RFL – this wasn’t your complaint; I’m just digressing).
RFL, I share your perspective that the Rams showed nothing this pre-season to incite optimism. At this point, there is no evidence to suggest that the team has developed any consistency, any attitude, or any discipline that will serve to take them to playoff competitiveness. We saw signs of the GSOT in pre-season. They were playing consistently well. We didn’t know what it meant, coming off a decade of terribleness. But there was something there. We saw nothing this pre-season. And in the past, we’ve seen only sporadic quality football, and one could argue that if it is sporadic, it isn’t actually quality.
However, while I haven’t seen anything materialize on the field yet, I think we have seen some structural and systemic things happen that are reason for hope, if not faith. This team is still very young. But it is coming of age, and I THINK…I THINK… that we will start to see evidence this season. Maybe not soon enough to get a wild card. But I think enough that we enter next season with some evidence-based eagerness. We have talent. We have coaching stability on the defense. The offense is gonna suck early, but running the ball isn’t a Martz level of complication, and the OL was assembled for its aggressiveness, and the Rams have good RBs. That isn’t “rocket science,” and it will come together. It won’t be sexy, maybe. But I think the Rams will start to put teams on their heels the second half of the season.
September 6, 2015 at 1:22 pm #29984bnwBlockedNothing snark about it. I trust Jeff Fisher.
The upside to being a Rams fan is heartbreak.
Sprinkles are for winners.
September 6, 2015 at 1:41 pm #29985znModeratorI would have LOVED to see them add a Timmerman, or some vet capable of nailing down a position on this young, young line. But without a specific name of a guy, this kind of armchair GMing drives me crazy. “They should have got somebody to play X really well!”
Great. Who?
I agree with that and add this. In terms of how they worked the cap, they could either add a vet lineman or extend Foles. I doubt they could do both.
In terms of what they spent in free agency, Fairley was just a swap for Foles. They added Ayers, but he was a modest 3 M a year. More importantly, they extended Kendricks.
..
September 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm #29990InvaderRamModeratorone thing that gives me hope. seattle’s oline situation supposedly isn’t the best right now and they’ll be missing some key personnel on defense. so hopefully the rams are catching them at the right time.
September 6, 2015 at 2:07 pm #29991znModeratorone thing that gives me hope. seattle’s oline situation supposedly isn’t the best right now and they’ll be missing some key personnel on defense. so hopefully the rams are catching them at the right time.
Rams played them tough at home three years in a row. They won in 2012, then came close to beating them in 2013 even with Clemens at qb, and then won in 2014 even with Davis at qb. Rams just match up with Seattle.
September 6, 2015 at 2:31 pm #29995InvaderRamModeratoryou’re right. they do match up well. and that’s why with the other factors in play there’s a chance the rams catch them by surprise.
i hope. but that oline really worries me.
September 6, 2015 at 3:29 pm #30002CalParticipantBut I have noticed that those who “see it” differently offer lots of theories and explanations without actually having much direct evidence to point to. But that, of course, is indeed my viewpoint.
What about the Colts game? There was a lotta good stuff there.
3rd & 9 completion to Tavon for 20+ yards & a first down. (I could care less if the ref called OPI. The preseason is to see if guys can make plays. Tavon won that route and made the catch. That’s what the preseason is for.)
Tre looked good running the ball–he picked up a nice 3rd & 3 on the ground.
Donald absolutely dominated a whole series.
A beautiful long ball from Foles on play action to Givens.
Foles looked just as good, if not better, than Luck.
I didn’t come away from that game saying the Colts were a much better team than the Rams. Nor do I see how you could if you actually watched closely.
September 6, 2015 at 5:47 pm #30005PA RamParticipantThe offensive line is what it is and they are just going to have to improve together and in the meantime they’ll just have to get help here and there to protect Foles. I think it’s a problem right now and no rose colored glasses can change that for me. But I HOPE they do improve as the team goes along.
The defense? Not really concerned. I believe they’ll be fine. yes–the secondary needs to get its act together in terms of where they should be going–less confusion…but I also think they’ll make plays–cause fumbles and interceptions and be disruptive. They’ll be good enough.
But here’s what I like on offense:
Todd Gurley. What a weapon he should be.
Tavon Austin. He looks more sure of himself this year. Seems to want to do less dancing and is looking to break loose.
Chris Givens. He’s a deep threat pure and simple.
This team has some BIG PLAY potential this year.
That’s exciting to me.
So yes–I have some problems and concerns. But I am really excited about what COULD be.
We’ll see.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. " Philip K. Dick
September 6, 2015 at 6:12 pm #30007wvParticipantWell, RFL my friend, I know you want to
“distinguish between Manifestation and Moonshine.”
You want posting-discipline and you don’t want to confuse ‘hope’ with ‘evidence’.I get that, and I like the fact you hold people’s posts to the fire…or something like that 🙂
But I just cant agree that the evidence was all foreboding and ominous so far. I think its been more like a kaleidoscope, of confusing signals and omens. (see Cal’s post for some positives)
That’s just how my brain interprets it.So, I dunno what, if anything the four preseason games showed. Thus, after a confusing preseason, I widen my lens a bit and look at the past and the collection of talent and the levels of experience, and the health of the team and the shape of the division, and I kinda mix all that together and shake it up and add some intuition and gut-feelings and hunches….and what I come up with is a team with a dangerous defense, and very good special teams, and an average offense that wont make as many game-killing mistakes as last year (I mean how could they).
Its not ‘evidence’ but I think this team turns the corner this year and becomes a winner.
I’m excited. You are wary. Ag is Blue. Invader smells shit.
Keep posting comrade.
w
vSeptember 6, 2015 at 8:15 pm #30015wvParticipantfwiw:
@nwagoner: #Rams rookie RB Todd Gurley says he has shed the yellow “no contact” beanie and there’s nothing he can’t do at this point in his recovery.
September 7, 2015 at 1:39 am #30023InvaderRamModeratorfwiw:
@nwagoner: #Rams rookie RB Todd Gurley says he has shed the yellow “no contact” beanie and there’s nothing he can’t do at this point in his recovery.
i’d still keep him out until the oline situation is a little clearer.
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