How Trump took Middle America

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  • #58651
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I havent read this yet. But it has a Heart of Darkness reference so it cant be all bad.
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    Heart of Darkness:https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2016/nov/16/how-trump-took-middletown-muncie-election

    #58652
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    see link….The link between economic anxiety and rightwing nationalism can be overdone. The easy narrative of a populist revolt has an appealing simplicity, but Clinton won votes from more than half of the people who earn less than $50,000; the rich voted for Trump. He won the electoral college and lost the popular vote. Thanks to the lowest turnout in 20 years, Trump won a lower percentage of the eligible vote than John Kerry, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Gerald Ford – and they all lost. He got the same proportion of the white vote as Romney in 2012 and Bush in 2004 and only a little more than McCain in 2008. He may have led the charge to the right but comparatively few marched with him.

    Nor is such a link inevitable. In several countries across Europe – from Greece to Britain – a populist left response has emerged to this same crisis. In the US Bernie Sanders….”

    …People need something to change. “The [Democratic party says] ‘Let’s just do the things we’ve always done and have incremental change’.” says Dave Ring, who runs the Downtown Farm Stand, an organic food store and deli. “So they’re very, very happy with incremental change. And the rest of the public is out here like: ‘We don’t have time for incremental change.’”

    …. “They understand the trade issue,” said Ring, who voted for Sanders in the primary and then Clinton. “People know what killed their jobs and that was Nafta. And not only did it kill our jobs here but it exploited people elsewhere, and I think people are starting to understand how multinational corporations work. They move the jobs where there’s people they can exploit.”….

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #58657
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    “…But Trump’s victory cannot be explained by racism alone – and the efforts to understand race and class separately result in one misunderstanding them both entirely. Indeed, to get to the bottom of Trump’s appeal we will have to go beyond any monocausal interpretation of these results and adopt a more intersectional approach, one that takes into account the fractious way a constellation of identities collide and align.

    People are, of course, many things – male, white, straight, rural, college-educated and so on – and just one thing: themselves. It is that whole person, not a segment of it, that goes to the polls and that we need to understand. Hillary Clinton won women – but Trump won white women and older women…”

    …..Older people voted for Trump and younger for Clinton, although young white men went to Trump. In another sign of the widening divide over education – also visible in the Brexit vote – college graduates were for Clinton, those who did not attend or finish for Trump. An even starker partisan divide than gender or age was visible in the split between the rural and the urban vote….”

    ..
    ….
    …..You can pin it on the Russians, WikiLeaks, the FBI, the media, third parties, and they all played a role. But sooner or later moderate liberals are going to have to own the consequences of their politics. In this period of despair and volatility, their offer of milquetoast, market-led managerialism is not a winning formula. For a political camp that boasts of its pragmatic electability, it has quite simply failed to adapt.

    Carefully scripted but complacently framed, the Clinton campaign emerged from a centrist political tradition at a moment where there is no centre, offering market-based solutions at a time when Clinton’s own base has begun to see the free market as part of the problem….
    … In short, economic injustice and class alienation are as much the reason why Clinton lost as why Trump won. He stoked his base’s fears; she failed to give her base hope.
    Read this series from the beginning

    “People look around Muncie and think, ‘What has capitalism done for the working man?’” says Dave Ring, the Downtown Food Stand owner who voted for Sanders and then Clinton. “Well, it’s taken our jobs and ruined our infrastructure and increased our healthcare prices so they’re unaffordable. If your job is good and you have good healthcare and you have retirement, then you don’t understand. That’s a very small group of people. And it happens to be the group of people who are in power.”


    ….Trump did not introduce racism to the modern Republican party. He simply refused to observe institutional etiquette.

    For half a century, Republicans had relied on Richard Nixon’s “Southern Strategy”, which deployed a coded racial message that could bind together a formidable coalition of southern states and suburban white voters. “You have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks,” Nixon told his chief-of-staff Bob Haldeman. “The key is to devise a system that recognises that while not appearing to.”

    Trump had no problem “appearing to”, although he focused his bigotry on Latinos and Muslims more than African-Americans. Some people voted for him because of this rhetoric, while others voted for him because it didn’t put them off. The Republican party establishment was terrified by it. Even with less inflammatory rhetoric, the party had been struggling to win the White House….see link

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 12 months ago by Avatar photowv.
    #58661
    Avatar photozn
    Moderator

    nd not only did it kill our jobs here but it exploited people elsewhere, and I think people are starting to understand how multinational corporations work. They move the jobs where there’s people they can exploit.

    I don’t believe that that IS common, consensus perception.

    I don’t even think that it is common, consensus perception that one direct effect of NAFTA was to work against the possibility of organized labor or fair working conditions in other countries.

    IMO the general view is just that we lost jobs here.

    NOT that internationally, it was basically a legalization of labor exploitation abroad.

    #58663
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    nd not only did it kill our jobs here but it exploited people elsewhere, and I think people are starting to understand how multinational corporations work. They move the jobs where there’s people they can exploit.

    I don’t believe that that IS common, consensus perception.

    I don’t even think that it is common, consensus perception that one direct effect of NAFTA was to work against the possibility of organized labor or fair working conditions in other countries.

    IMO the general view is just that we lost jobs here.

    NOT that internationally, it was basically a legalization of labor exploitation abroad.

    —————-

    agreed

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    #58670
    — X —
    Participant

    What’s happening right now with these meaningless protests is part of the reason why Trump took Middle America. And I wonder if that comment about the widening divide over education could also be interpreted as an indictment of higher education.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #58681
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    What’s happening right now with these meaningless protests is part of the reason why Trump took Middle America. And I wonder if that comment about the widening divide over education could also be interpreted as an indictment of higher education.

    ———–
    Why would you say the protests are ‘meaningless’ ? You mean they are meaningless to ‘you’ right? Because each individual person involved in each separate protest has their own personal reason for being there.

    I was in an anti-war march once in Wash DC, and it meant something ‘meaningful’ to me. I knew it wouldnt ‘change’ any policies but it still meant something to me. I wanted to be there. Kindof a spiritual/emotional/social thing. But ‘meaningful’ all the same.

    You dont like protest now?

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    #58687
    — X —
    Participant

    I was in an anti-war march once in Wash DC, and it meant something ‘meaningful’ to me. I knew it wouldnt ‘change’ any policies but it still meant something to me. I wanted to be there. Kindof a spiritual/emotional/social thing. But ‘meaningful’ all the same.

    You dont like protest now?

    I assume you mean the protest against Vietnam? That’s a meaningful protest. What we’re seeing now is meaningless (yes, to me), because it’s a protest about not liking someone. It has no political relevance other than (a) not liking Trump’s rhetoric, (b) irrational fears about concentration camps (yes I heard that a few times) and (b) wanting to lobby for an elimination of the electoral college (none of whom would protest it if their candidate won). Maybe I’m getting old or something, but this whole ‘movement’ just seems like out of control entitlement, and multiple people are joining for no other reason than to be a part of something – and they have no idea what (watch some YT or Vine videos to see proof of this). And the worst part of it is, this is what the left predicted would happen if Trump lost. Never once did they assume that their own would be the ones who wouldn’t accept the peaceful transfer of power. It’s glorious in its irony. Sorry, but despite my desire to be more evolved than this, I can’t help but feel more than a little amused by the ridiculousness of it all.

    Protest when something egregious actually happens. Not because you think it will.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #58689
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    I was in an anti-war march once in Wash DC, and it meant something ‘meaningful’ to me. I knew it wouldnt ‘change’ any policies but it still meant something to me. I wanted to be there. Kindof a spiritual/emotional/social thing. But ‘meaningful’ all the same.

    You dont like protest now?

    I assume you mean the protest against Vietnam? That’s a meaningful protest. What we’re seeing now is meaningless (yes, to me), because it’s a protest about not liking someone. It has no political relevance other than (a) not liking Trump’s rhetoric, (b) irrational fears about concentration camps (yes I heard that a few times) and (b) wanting to lobby for an elimination of the electoral college (none of whom would protest it if their candidate won). Maybe I’m getting old or something, but this whole ‘movement’ just seems like out of control entitlement, and multiple people are joining for no other reason than to be a part of something – and they have no idea what (watch some YT or Vine videos to see proof of this). And the worst part of it is, this is what the left predicted would happen if Trump lost. Never once did they assume that their own would be the ones who wouldn’t accept the peaceful transfer of power. It’s glorious in its irony. Sorry, but despite my desire to be more evolved than this, I can’t help but feel more than a little amused by the ridiculousness of it all.

    Protest when something egregious actually happens. Not because you think it will.

    ——————-
    No the protest i was at was during the Bush years.

    You are entitled to your view, of course but you just seem really harsh to me, and painting with SUCH a broad brush. You have reduced all those thousands and thousands and thousands of separate, individual reasons for protesting to “they just dont like someone”.

    If they were protesting Hillary would you think the same way? If they were protesting “political correctness” would you feel the same way?

    This election was a HUGE deal to Americans. One side was going to be ELATED and one side was going to be CRUSHED emotionally. The good folks who feel crushed need to express themselves and regroup and network etc. Protest is something they need to do first, before moving to the next step of organizing and getting back to their normal routine.

    Democracy is messy.

    Maybe we just think differently about ‘protest’ in general. I think there should be MORE of it. I’d like to see more people get off their butts and turn the TV off and get more involved in protests and politics.

    Btw, i remember being at a protest here in Motown (GW came to town) and there were maybe a thousand or so protestors and we were all being respectful and civilized and all that — and the newsmedia ignored all of us, but they swarmed around a handful of nutcases dressed in weird costumes who seemed mentally unstable. Thats who the media wanted to talk to. Sigh.

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    #58695
    — X —
    Participant

    If they were protesting Hillary would you think the same way? If they were protesting “political correctness” would you feel the same way?

    Yes. I was dreading it happening. I told my wife that if Trump lost, I hope conservatives take it on the chin and at least had the presence of mind to vote down ticket republican so there would at least be a majority in the house and senate to push back on and block some of her policies and appointees. I didn’t want them to protest a democratic election. It would have been embarrassing, because I know the kinds of idiots that brings out of the woodwork. So yes, I would have been against that. And imagine how the MSM would have covered THAT. lol. Trump’s redneck racist misogynist bigots spurn democratic process!

    If they were protesting political correctness? I don’t know what that would look like. I mean, I’m not a fan of political correctness, but I probably would think it a stupid thing to take to the streets. Who the hell’s gonna change that? Who would even listen to it? Who starts a revolution over correct speech? I’m really trying to be open and honest about this, so I don’t know how I would react to that. I’d probably laugh at that too. I’m not against protests. I’m against stupidity and entitlement. I understand protests against war & tyranny. I understand the salt march and the million man march, and the Ferguson protests, and the outrage over Rodney King, and so on and so on. I don’t understand ‘Fuck Trump Steaks’ and ‘Sue the USA because the Electoral College is bogus’ and ‘He’ll put us in concentration camps’ and ‘SANCTUARY CAMPUSES!’. And again, I’m not trying to invalidate anyone’s feelings. I just don’t find it particularly useful, and it just seems like rampant entitlement. It’s also an insult to real protest and real heroes of causes like the self-immolation of Thich Quang Duc, or Gandhi’s hunger strike, or the guy squaring off on a tank in tiananmen square.

    I’m not trying to be combative or harsh or morally superior or anything like that.
    These are my honest feelings; and they have to be born of something.
    Maybe that warrants a little more investigation or introspection. I dunno.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

    #58698
    Avatar photowv
    Participant

    If they were protesting Hillary would you think the same way? If they were protesting “political correctness” would you feel the same way?

    Yes. I was dreading it happening. I told my wife that if Trump lost, I hope conservatives take it on the chin and at least had the presence of mind to vote down ticket republican so there would at least be a majority in the house and senate to push back on and block some of her policies and appointees. I didn’t want them to protest a democratic election. It would have been embarrassing, because I know the kinds of idiots that brings out of the woodwork. So yes, I would have been against that. And imagine how the MSM would have covered THAT. lol. Trump’s redneck racist misogynist bigots spurn democratic process!

    If they were protesting political correctness? I don’t know what that would look like. I mean, I’m not a fan of political correctness, but I probably would think it a stupid thing to take to the streets. Who the hell’s gonna change that? Who would even listen to it? Who starts a revolution over correct speech? I’m really trying to be open and honest about this, so I don’t know how I would react to that. I’d probably laugh at that too. I’m not against protests. I’m against stupidity and entitlement. I understand protests against war & tyranny. I understand the salt march and the million man march, and the Ferguson protests, and the outrage over Rodney King, and so on and so on. I don’t understand ‘Fuck Trump Steaks’ and ‘Sue the USA because the Electoral College is bogus’ and ‘He’ll put us in concentration camps’ and ‘SANCTUARY CAMPUSES!’. And again, I’m not trying to invalidate anyone’s feelings. I just don’t find it particularly useful, and it just seems like rampant entitlement. It’s also an insult to real protest and real heroes of causes like the self-immolation of Thich Quang Duc, or Gandhi’s hunger strike, or the guy squaring off on a tank in tiananmen square.

    I’m not trying to be combative or harsh or morally superior or anything like that.
    These are my honest feelings; and they have to be born of something.
    Maybe that warrants a little more investigation or introspection. I dunno.

    —————-

    “Entitlement” is a big thing with you. Its one of your core complaints, I’ve noticed.

    Its a big subject and someday maybe we’ll get into that. I’m always trying to figure out the core-fundamental differences that drive each of our political-notions.

    I’m going to bed, but let me at least leave you with this thot — Does it also bug you when mega-CORPORATIONS act all ‘entitled’ ? Or do you not believe that THEY are the biggest whiners on the planet? Does corporate-welfare bother you at all?

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    #58704
    — X —
    Participant

    “Entitlement” is a big thing with you. Its one of your core complaints, I’ve noticed.

    Its a big subject and someday maybe we’ll get into that. I’m always trying to figure out the core-fundamental differences that drive each of our political-notions.

    I’m going to bed, but let me at least leave you with this thot — Does it also bug you when mega-CORPORATIONS act all ‘entitled’ ? Or do you not believe that THEY are the biggest whiners on the planet? Does corporate-welfare bother you at all?

    Well, I’m sure if you keep funneling my answers into new questions in order to try and expose some sort of hypocrisy on my part, you might actually do it. I’m not infallible. I may have a bias here or there that people may find ugly, but I’ll own it if and when you do. But it’s 1:21 a.m. right now, and I can’t answer that last question in short order. I’m not even sure it’s a good equivalency, but I’ll answer it tomorrow. And remember, I said those feelings are born of something. They’re visceral, so it’s up to me to discovery why.

    And I do enjoy the conversation/debate. It’s a journey of discovery.

    You have to be odd, to be number one.
    -- Dr Seuss

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