How do people feel about Foles right now, before anything else happens?

zn wrote:

Do we know what that is?

Well, I know that what I saw last year was an OL that was rarely able to open holes to get the running game going. I know that WASN’T it. And we have less now than what we had then.

They’ll do something. But if it is not something fairly dramatic, we will not have a power running game.

zn wrote:

And besides, when I personally talk about a power running game, I never think of the Rams as having ever intended to be run run run. It always has been, and always intended to be, a balanced offense, with around 53-55% passing.

I think it’s clear that I have never spoken of a “run run run” approach. I’ve always had a pretty nuanced version of offense.

Here’s what I am saying. And it has nothing to do with “run, run, run.”

First, an effective running game must be able to impose its will on defenses, even when they are looking for the run. It doesn’t have to be a numbers game of carries. It does have to be a weapon that defenses have to take seriously and that can significantly carry the burden of the game. A “power running game” of the sort generally attributed to Fisher teams, is capable of grinding out 1st downs in the face of schemes designed to stop it without the secondary orienting to the passing game.

Second, such a running game requires competent OL. I’ve argued scores of times that you don’t have to have stars. You do need solid professionals. RBs cannot impose a team’s will on a defense without solid OL play. I mean, this is too obvious to belabor further.

Third, we did not have such an OL last year and have only had flashes of solid OL play since Fisher got here. As a result, in 3 seasons, we have only in brief flashes been able to impose our will running the football. The rest of the time, the (limited) success and (abundant) failure of our offense has been put in the hands of the QBs and WRs. Fisher has not displayed a true power running game since he got here.

Fourth, the Rams have, so far, made only the most minimal move so far to even regain last year’s low standard of play, let alone improve it. They almost certainly have a plan, but whatever it is, it shows no sign of urgency, it continues to risk missing out on any of the few available vet FAs, and it has, until now at least, subordinated the OL to DT, LB, and, notably, QB, in off season activity.

Fifth, in light of 1-4, the commonly held assumption that Fisher is committed to a power running game or that, as the line I quoted put it, this team is not built to depend on the QB, is highly suspect. Through Fisher’s 1st 3 years, with very few exceptions, the Rams’ few successes have precisely been based on QB performance. ZN, your points about Foles themselves support the idea that he is attractive to the Rams precisely BECAUSE they think he can throw quickly and effectively to offset the lack of a power running game.

Sixth, unless they fill the glaring holes in the OL with competence, with improvements on recent levels of talent, you can forget about power running this year. At best I can imagine a running game that gets going in fits and starts beneath a QB effectively throwing medium routes with quick releases and relying on Mason to occasionally break off a reasonably big play when the stars align perfectly. But play action will get us very little and we will NOT be able to impose our will running the ball.

Again, this is all intended to oppose stock league and fan assumptions about Fisher with the actual evidence of what he has done so far. And to caution against having expectations that diverge from what the team is actually up to.

I feel it bears repeating, though others may not: this team will have a power running game and alleviate pressure on QBs WHEN IT ASSEMBLES A COMPETENT OL AND NOT BEFORE! And it hasn’t happened yet.

Foles sounds like he could be a roller coaster. Some big plays. Some INTs that vex us. I think he’s a place holder at QB. I’m not excited, but also know he was likely the best option for 2015. This year should show us whether he’s the best option moving forward.

Dak wrote:

Foles sounds like he could be a roller coaster. Some big plays. Some INTs that vex us. I think he’s a place holder at QB. I’m not excited, but also know he was likely the best option for 2015. This year should show us whether he’s the best option moving forward.

I agree with zn ; i think Foles can be what he’s already been — a good QB.
Not elite, but a tough, smart gamer.

Obviously, they need to keep drafting young QBs, every year or so
for all the obvious reason. To state the obvious.

I did not mention the OLINE once
in this post. Not once.

w
v

zn wrote:

Dak wrote:

Foles is somewhere between just below average at QB to the “tough, smart gamer” that wv mentions above. I think that’s his ceiling, and it’s quite a bit below Bradford’s ceiling.

Foles is kinda like the Rams Kaepernick. But, better.

And. Not as fast.

Since we have some time. What would you say is considered average at quarterback in the NFL. Ratings and statistically speaking.

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

wv wrote:

bnw wrote:

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

What would your NFC WEST QB ranking look like?

Russell Wilson
Kaepernik
Carson Palmer
Foles

w
v

1. Wilson
2. Palmer
3. Foles
4. Kaepernick

wv wrote:

bnw wrote:

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

What would your NFC WEST QB ranking look like?

Russell Wilson
Kaepernik
Carson Palmer
Foles

w
v

I am optimistic.

Passing yards
Palmer
Foles
Wilson
Kaeernick

Wins
Wilson
Foles
Palmer
Kaepernick

zn wrote:

Herzog wrote:

zn wrote:

Dak wrote:

Foles is somewhere between just below average at QB to the “tough, smart gamer” that wv mentions above. I think that’s his ceiling, and it’s quite a bit below Bradford’s ceiling.

Foles is kinda like the Rams Kaepernick. But, better.

And. Not as fast.

Since we have some time. What would you say is considered average at quarterback in the NFL. Ratings and statistically speaking.

You mean what is an average qb? Cause an “average” designation for a qb is NOT good. As in,”enh, he’s just average.” (Not talking about Foles, just in general.)

Cause with qbs you have good levels and then bad levels.

Or do you mean what’s average for a GOOD qb? A starting caliber qb you want to keep?

BTW it might be a few hours before I respond. That eerie entity out there they call “the real world” is demanding my presence.

.

I mean average in the strictest sense of the term…statistically speaking.

Herzog wrote:

bnw wrote:

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

I’m with you. I think he is one good qb coach (and decent offensive line) away from being amazing.

“Hope clouds observation.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

🙂

w
v

bnw wrote:

wv wrote:

Herzog wrote:

bnw wrote:

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

I’m with you. I think he is one good qb coach (and decent offensive line) away from being amazing.

“Hope clouds observation.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

w
v

Such pessimism is not warranted in my opinion. Foles is the answer for this season for multiple reasons. A decent answer at that. Crack a smile it won’t hurt.

So you think Foles can be “amazing” ?

Call me a pessimist,
but i do not expect that.
Despite the amazing year
he had for the Eagles 🙂

w
v

wv wrote:

bnw wrote:

wv wrote:

Herzog wrote:

bnw wrote:

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

I’m with you. I think he is one good qb coach (and decent offensive line) away from being amazing.

“Hope clouds observation.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

w
v

Such pessimism is not warranted in my opinion. Foles is the answer for this season for multiple reasons. A decent answer at that. Crack a smile it won’t hurt.

So you think Foles can be “amazing” ?

Call me a pessimist,
but i do not expect that.
Despite the amazing year
he had for the Eagles

w
v

I know I feel much better about going into the season with Foles and a 2nd round draft pic and more cap space to address team needs than having Bradford start after 2 ACL surgeries in 18 months. I never wrote amazing. I wrote optimistic. In fact it was the only feeling of such optimism since the Marshal Faulk trade moment I experienced 16 years ago and the Aeneus Williams signing two years later.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 8 months ago by bnw.

wv wrote:

bnw wrote:

wv wrote:

Herzog wrote:

bnw wrote:

I’m optimistic about Foles being the Rams QB.

I’m with you. I think he is one good qb coach (and decent offensive line) away from being amazing.

“Hope clouds observation.”
― Frank Herbert, Dune

w
v

Such pessimism is not warranted in my opinion. Foles is the answer for this season for multiple reasons. A decent answer at that. Crack a smile it won’t hurt.

So you think Foles can be “amazing” ?

Call me a pessimist,
but i do not expect that.
Despite the amazing year
he had for the Eagles

w
v

I think he could be. I think he was Bulgerized in Philly last year. They had three Offensive line starters out while he was playing. I don’t completely discount that spectacular 2013 season he had.

All that being said, I do think he needs a good offensive line AND a good qb coach….and a simple offense. I think we are headed in that direction.

From an ESPN BLOG:

In 2012, the Eagles’ offensive line was a mess due to injuries. Pro Bowl left tackle Jason Peters missed the entire season after tearing his Achilles tendon. Center Jason Kelce tore his ACL in the second game of the season. Left guard Evan Mathis was the only lineman to start all 16 games.

In 2013, Foles’ best season, all five starting offensive linemen played all 16 games. In 2014, disorder was again the order of the day. Right tackle Lane Johnson was suspended for the first four games of the season. Mathis and Kelce were injured early. Right guard Todd Herremans tore his biceps midway through the season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/159472/nick-foles-struggled-under-departing-bill-musgrave

zn wrote:

Herzog wrote:

I mean average in the strictest sense of the term…statistically speaking.

Hmm. Well I think an avg. qb—one right in the middle of the pack—

QB rating in the low 90s
Completion percentage around 63%
Around 240 yards a game
INT% around 2.2-2.4%
YPA around 7.2

Let me see who I just described. ……….. (I am actually just now looking to see……) That is, who in 2014 does this describe?

Okay.

Joe Flacco

.

Not bad. I think Flacco’s numbers were less than that when they won the Super Bowl. Glass is half full my friend!