Hill after his first 4 games back as the starter

TackleDummy wrote:

c1ram wrote:
Hill is pretty decent at QB. Problem is he’s backed up Stafford and everyone forgot his effectiveness at SF (once playing under another defensive HC – Singletary).

I am not sure how effective he was with SF. In four years he started a total of 16 games for them. The most in any one year was 2008 when he started 8 games. Hill’s best year was 2010 with Detroit when he started 10 games, threw for 2,686 yards and threw for 16 TDs. Hill is a career backup quarterback. Nothing more.

In an interesting side note, Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller on Sirus NFL radio this morning said that Hill was a bad practice quarterback. They said that a team cannot have a bad quarterback even though he plays well on game day because it makes it very difficult for the OC to game plan. I had not heard this before but Pat Kirwan is the football commentator that I respect the most.

“Shaun Hill will be fine. When I was in SF, I underestimated his ability. As time went on, he demonstrated what a winner he is.”- Mike Martz

http://theramshuddle.com/topic/mike-martz-on-shaun-hill/

And Kirwan has never watched Hill practice so he is speaking abstractions–he has no idea if Hill is so poor at that that he throws off gameplanning. I say that watching Hill play, he is better in this offense than a “backup.” He’s playing better than several current starters. Sometimes a guy is in the right place at the right time, and defies expectations and exceeds what he has done in the past.

BTW in Detroit, Hill had no running game and the defense was bottom 12-level mediocre.

One interesting PFF stat.

Hill is ranked 3rd in accuracy percentage under pressure.

This ranking includes only qbs who have thrown 100 or more passes.

from off the net

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XXXIVwin

Shaun Hill Part Two–Skillset (note: part 1 is in this thread]/color])

Every year I get Lindy’s draft magazine, and they rate QB’s on the following categories: Setup/Release, Accuracy, Arm Strength, Reading Defenses, On The Move, and Intangibles.

The following are some of my own personal thoughts as an ardent Ram fan. I’m not a scout (nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night), but I just wanted to articulate why I am impressed by Shaun Hill’s game. Everyone sees things differently– beauty is in the eye of the beholder– but for those of you who have your doubts about Hill, I hope you can (at least try) to understand the point of view of those (like myself) who think Shaun Hill is significantly under-rated.

Setup/Release: Excellent.

“Decisive and quick release” is the gold standard in this category… and Hill has got it in spades. I think one could say this is his greatest strength. When Fisher made the move to go from Davis back to Hill, he cited this as the primary reason– Davis, as a young player, tended to hold on to the ball too long, and then when the play broke down, he’d try to make something happen with his feet. Hill is the opposite– he’s decisive, quick, and gets the ball OUT of there early… exactly what a veteran NFL QB is supposed to do.

Example: Rainbow to Britt for (30 or so) yards to Kenny Britt on the final drive of the Chargers game. (Yes, yes… this ended (of course) with Hill’s worst mistake as a Ram– but as even Fisher pointed out in his defense, he at least Hill GOT the team in position to win the game at the end). Anyway– on this pass to Britt, Hill throws with great anticipation, a rainbow which hangs in the air for what Tike Barber commented “seemed like 15 seconds!” Some may not be impressed, but I agree with Tiki– this was a GREAT throw.

RECAP: There are many, many examples of Hill’s decisive setup and release. Fisher chose him mainly for this reason, and Mike Martz said of Hill that he was impressed by his “speed of delivery and decision making” in games. Maybe the rainbow to Britt isn’t the “best” example of this trait, but my point is he plays with great ANTICIAPTION– he gets the ball out EARLY based on where his receiver WILL BE after his break.

Accuracy: Excellent

To me, Hill’s accuracy is on a par with Bradford’s… it’s just a different “kind” of accuracy. If you want to hit a soda can sitting on a fence from 30 yards away with a bullet, Sam Bradford’s your man. But Shaun Hill’s game is different… he “throws his receivers open.” IMHO, Hill does a fantastic job of placing the ball in a spot where his receiver has a chance to get the ball, even if he is being defended closely by quality NFL coverage.

EXAMPLES: There are many plays to choose from. For me, I still remember being impressed by Shaun Hill’s accuracy way back in preseason… his very last throw in the Cleveland game was an absolute STRIKE to Brian Quick… Quick was in the end zone, moving left, and Hill had to wait for him to get open and then threw the ball in a tight, tight window through a bunch of bodies where only Quick could get it…. Quick actually dropped it, but I remember thinking, that was the PERFECT throw in that situation.

But more typical of the “Shaun Hill type of accuracy” was his very first TD pass in preseason– an EARLY throw to Stedman Bailey, to his OUTSIDE shoulder, placed in the spot where only Bailey could get it, and the announcers (Holt and Faulk among them) raving about how well-placed the ball was.

RECAP: I did not take the time to “research” specifically plays from the regular season… but there are many of them. The key thing for me is how Hill throws early and to a spot where only his receiver can catch it. It may not be as pretty as other QB’s with a different style, who more routinely “zip it in there” in a tight window. But Hill’s early, well-timed, accurately placed throws can be deadly effective.

Arm Strength: Good.

Shaun Hill has more than adequate arm strength, he just does. I remember Fisher talking about how they would not need to adjust the playbook for Shaun after Bradford went down, specifically because Hill had enough arm strength to “make all the throws.”

Examples: Two plays stick out to me from the last WAS game. Hill’s first pass of the game: Rams are backed up on their own 16 yd line, 3rd down and 11 with 9:07 to go in the 1st Quarter. Hill goes back and just launches one to Jared Cook down the middle for a gain of 16. Hill put his whole body behind it and just cranked it, the ball came out (clichéd but this is what came to mind) like shot out of a cannon. Hill doesn’t always crank it like this– his throws are more about anticipation and timing– but when he NEEDS to, he CAN crank it. Also: On 1st and 15 with 3:20 left in the first half, Kenny Britt does his stop-and-go down the right sideline. Hill is rolling right, and a little off balance he “chucks” it deep to Britt for the successful completion. This is a standard Rams play that we’ve seen before… quite memorably, Austin Davis tried this play (also intended for Britt deep down the right sideline) against KC. I seem to remember Davis torqued his whole body and really made the effort to launch it, but the ball just died on him and it fell short for the interception.

RECAP: Shaun Hill has plenty of arm strength to be a winning NFL QB. Hill tailors his game so it’s more about good decision making and timing… but when he needs to crank it, he has the ability required.

Reading Defenses: Excellent

Again, IMHO this is one of Hill’s greatest strengths. Hill is a veteran who has LEARNED from his vast experience.

Examples: Below is a transcript of one of Jeff Fisher’s comments about Hill after the Raiders game:

(On how QB Shaun Hill maneuvered out of some plays to get the ball out quick and how much freedom and structure he has with getting the ball out quicker)
Fisher: “Well I think in most situations, with the exceptions of third down stuff. First and second down stuff quarterbacks have options, whether they’re run-run options or whether they’re run-pass options. That’s all built in. He took advantage of the built in options, but he also completely changed some things that actually worked out pretty well for us. As I said, our plan was to run the football and it wasn’t there so we had that little quick pass game option. Which in essence, in that case, is still a part of the running game, but it worked for us. It tended to soften some things up for us.”

Keeping in mind Fisher’s comments, I re-watched the opening drive against the Raiders. (Hill was 4 for 4 for 50-some yards capped by a TD).

–After a Raider penalty to make it 1st and 5, Hill throws a completion to Harkey on his left for 8 yards and a first down.

–Next play was (I believe) initially a run-call. But when Hill saw that Tavon was on his left, lined up “stacked” behind Kenny Britt– and the Raiders D was playing too “soft”. To me, this was a prime example of Hill taking advantage of “the little quick pass game option” that was “in essence a part of the running game.” Hill made a quick “sight read” to just immediately pass to Austin with a Rams WR as a blocker in front of him– essentially like a handoff to Austin out wide in space. Austin picks up 6 yards.

–2nd and 4, with Austin lined up the same way, just on the opposite side, on the right, again “stacked” behind Kenny Britt. Raiders again did not respect it enough, so again Hill made them play– a sight-read quick-pass to Austin, who beats his man and picks up the first down. Move the chains, keep Austin involved, give him the ball quick and right away in space. Just seemed like a great veteran move on Hill’s part– if you keep giving us this play, we’ll keep taking it until you have to adjust.

–On the final play of the drive, Tavon Austin goes in motion and at the snap for a THIRD STRAIGHT TIME is lined up “stacked” behind an outside WR. The Rams had the PERFECT play call, Hill faked the third-straight quick-out to Tavon on his left, but then turned around and threw the screen to Mason on his right. The Raider MLB completely bit on the fake and took himself out of the play, and Mason rambled down the right sideline for the TD. Just great game management from Shaun Hill– take what the defense gives you, force them to adjust, and then execute the killer “counter” play. Schottenheimer and Hill obviously saw something on film about this, and they worked together to exploit it.

RECAP: To me, “reading defenses” is one thing I love about Shaun Hill– all the stuff we as fans DON’T see when it comes to game planning and in-game adjustments. I just trust that he is like an extra coach out there, and making smart decisions… the difference between winning and losing in the NFL is so small, and just a few plays based on savvy and experience can be crucial.

On the Move: Good Enough

Obviously Shaun Hill is no runner, but to me I think he has enough of that “sixth sense” of detecting where the rush is coming from and shifting/sliding in the pocket to extend plays. (BTW, this is my biggest concern about Bradford even when healthy– I just am concerned that Bradford is decidedly below-average in this department, he often looks slow as molasses when “evading” the rush… but that is a different conversation.)

EXAMPLE: The naked bootleg for the TD! The speed, the grace, the power… no, just kiddingthumbs up smiley… (though he CAN pick up yards if he needs to with his feet)

My real example: 3rd and 3 at their own 22yd. line, early in the 3rd quarter against the Denver Broncos. Rams were only up 13-7 at this point, and I think we as fans did NOT want the Rams to go 3-and-out and give Peyton Manning a short-field with the chance to take the lead. Anyway… Hill feels the pressure from the rush, and has to shift to his left, and kinda-while moving backwards and to his left throws a pass to Benny Cunningham’s outside shoulder (or hip) despite blanket coverage, and Rams gain 7 and keep the chains moving. The play-by-play announcer comments on the continued impressive play throughout the game thus far(“Hill continues to make good decisions”winking smiley, while Dan Fouts (a good evaluator of QB play, ya think?) raves that Hill’s throw is “tremendous.” I believe that Fisher also made particular note of this play after the game, as an example of how Shaun Hill has the ability to “extend plays.”

RECAP: Yes, as a runner Shaun Hill is no Colin Kaepernick. (embarrassed smileyHa– no comment). But as is required for pocket passers, Shaun Hill does have the knack for shifting and sliding in the pocket to extend plays when he needs to.

Intangibles– Excellent.

Obviously, this is subjective. But from what I’ve seen, I’d agree with some of Mike Martz’s recent comments about Hill– that Hill is “a winner”, a “tremendous leader,” and “the fiercest competitor on your football team.”

EXAMPLE: After the first half of the recent WAS game, Shaun Hill reportedly had a meeting to rally the offense, and in particular with Joe Barksdale, who had allowed Ryan Kerrigan to get into his head. (Apparently Corey Harkey lit into the team too). The point is, from all I’ve heard, Shaun Hill is a respected veteran who is not afraid to be vocal and call people out (if necessary) and do whatever it takes to be a leader.[Frankly, I remember hearing about this, but did not want to spend forever tracking down a link to “prove” my point… if some other poster can find a link –Rams43 mentioned this as well– feel free to help me out here!]

RECAP: For me, the “intangibles” is all about an emotional reaction to watching Shaun Hill at QB. There is just something in his play which inspires a quiet calm confidence. For me, I noticed it at halftime of the WAS game– despite the Rams clearly outplaying Washington, they were only up 6-0 as Jeff Wilkins right before halftime missed his THIRD straight kick. It would have been so easy, and predictable, for me to think “oh, here it is again, that same ugly pattern– Rams win, then lose, win, then lose. And they play well at the beginning, but then they blow it in the second half.” But Shaun Hill had driven the team to the ‘Skins 20 yard line at the end of the half, and–even though Wilkins looked scary unreliable– I just had a confidence that Shaun Hill would do his part to make smart decisions and he wouldn’t let adversity derail the offense, he’d keep the offense chugging along. Frankly, with both Davis (this year) and Bradford, during games I often have this uneasy feeling that the wheels “could” come off… but there is something about Hill that makes me think you are going to keep getting solid, smart, steady play throughout the game.

BOTTOM LINE

In my opinion, Shaun Hill has good enough mobility to extend plays, has good arm strength, has excellent accuracy and the ability to “throw receivers open”, and is superior in the three categories of Setup/Release, Reading Defenses, and Intangibles. IMHO, despite his casual “aw shucks” Kansas demeanor, he is a fierce, under-rated competitor who has been a WINNER whenever he’s been given the chance.

Hill does not have a “pretty” game– but that is what I find beautiful about it. Some of his passes may wobble, but they get to the right spot. And he does all those little veteran-things that help put his team in the right position. Maybe because Hill’s game is more cerebral and not as pretty, many posters look at his impressive over-90 passer rating and 3-1 record as a full-game starter and react with “yawn” and “ho-hum” and are inclined to look under rocks for any old FA QB who could just “replace” Hill. I just think Hill is a hugely under-rated asset for the Rams. I’m afraid we all might feel like Martz did after the 2008 season, when the 49ers started 2-6 with JT O’Sulllivan but finished 5-3 with Hill as QB…like Martz, we might look back and think “Hill should’ve been the starter all season” and wonder what might have been.

My only knock on Hill is his age– if he were 32, that would be awesome. But maybe after reading my two (longish) posts, at least some on here would at least understand my reasoning why I think the Rams should keep him– and consider giving Hill the keys to the car in 2015 and see how far he can drive this team. Given that Hill is a pocket passer who counts on quick decision-making, I think he should have at least 2 more good years left in him. (Heck, given his many years stuck as a backup he probably has less “wear” on him.)

And don’t just take my word for it– our old friends from the GSOT days seem to love him. Martz sings his praises; Kurt Warner recently gave Hill credit for being the “difference maker” for the Rams resurgent offense; I can still remember how Holt was gushing about Hill’s “tremendous” play during pre-season; D’Marco Farr is sky-high on him, too.

In closing, check out this cool (short 50-sec.) link to Marshall Faulk asking all NFL fans, “Who is the crafty veteran on your team?”

Faulk, with his enthusiastic style, talks about the experienced vet who does all those little things that help his team win– but doesn’t show up on the score sheet. IMHO, Shaun Hill can be that “crafty veteran,” a great leader for the young talent Snisher have stockpiled the last few years.

Mackeyser wrote:

Hill has really been a blessing and I think he’s just a LOT better than folks think, including opposing defenses.

I think opposing defenses think of him as “the 2nd string QB” and he shouldn’t be viewed that way. He should be viewed as a middling starter because I’d totally take him over “starters” like Geno Smith…

If the Rams can enter next year with Bradford, Hill and a high rook like maybe Hundley or Connor Cook… and sit Hundley and let him really learn (and sell him on being the next Aaron Rodgers with this D) then I think the Rams are set even if Bradford can’t really come back until mid-season.

And, I really, REALLY don’t want Sam Bradford coming back too early and risking his knee. Hill can carry the banner until Bradford is really, really ready. Unless the rook is lights out and just flat out earns the starting spot like Wilson did when he was drafted…. I think we’re good with Hill and Sammy B.

I agree with practically every word of that.

Dammit, message boards are not supposed to be about AGREEMENT.

They’re supposed to be about pointless drama queen style bickering.

Oh well, I guess this “agreement” thing has its good points too.

We’ll just have to agree to agree I guess.

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